False, as usual, Cody. (Destiny)
Munky was telling me that as more and more people get Hawkmoon, the more and more likely it is that Bungie will nerf it because it's so dominating in crucible, and everybody would use it.
Because it kills the sandbox. If you were to make weapons a guaranteed drop in any activity, people would gravitate only towards the top-tier weapons, and nothing else. You contradict yourself. On the one hand, you want to be guaranteed a Mythoclast for killing a hard Atheon, but on the other hand you complained that too many people were getting Mythoclasts... Wouldn't one problem cause/be a result of the other?
Only because the Mythoclast was designed with the intent that it be ultra rare. If a lot of people were expected to get it, it would have been designed to better fit in with the rest of the weapons. That's the whole point of my post. Doing the weapons right would mean redesigning them.
So let's look at the reality of how the game is, rather than the idealized version that you claim could exist in this game. How would you have balanced the Mythoclast in a way that would not fundamentally change what it is while making it both more powerful, and balanced in the game? Clearly you know something that no developer knows.
Again, a contradiction. Having the highest-tier weapons be a much easier reward would lead to a much narrower arsenal. Who would use any Hand Cannon besides TLW and Hawkmoon? Who would use any sniper besides Praedyth's Revenge/Ice Breaker? Who would use any shotgun besides 4th Horseman or Swordbreaker? Gjallarhorn, Zombie Apocalypse, or Jolder's Hammer?
Only if Bungie left things the way they are. The point, was that if the weapons were all obtainable in some non random fashion, Bungie would have to redesign them precisely so the situation you state does not arise. Hawkmoon is as dominating as it is because it's rare. There would ideally be no "top tier" weapons. There would be fewer weapons, with each being good for different scenarios, or cater to different playstyles. That's probably impossible, but many games have come very close.
No matter how small the sanbox is, or how much reiteration is intended to balance the sandbox, there will always be top-tier weapons.
Take Call of Duty, for example. No matter what game you play, any small tweak in the annual update results in top-tier weapons. The Models, the FAMAS, the AKS, the SVU... They are the only things that the "pros" use, and if they get nerfed even a bit, the balance of power shifts; not to the rest of the sandbox, but to another weapon that edges out the competition.
Even Warframe, a game where players themselves can customize, tweak, overhaul, and transform every single weapon in the game has "top-tier weapons". Boltor Prime, Dread, Soma, Castanas, Dragon Nikana... "Pro"players claim that you can't succeed without these, and as such, the masses follow, and though the game has a ridiculously expansive sandbox (Rifles, Bows, Snipers, Hand Cannons, dual-wielded shotguns, rocket-pistols, lasers, Power saws, Greatswords, whips, axes, claws, gauntlets, hammers, staffs, daggers, etc...), people feel like they need to have a specific "top-tier" loadout to succeed. And the crazy thing is that all of the weapons not only have very subtly nuanced and carefully balanced stats, they're all designed to appeal to any playstyle imaginable, and people don't take advantage of it. It's all "What do the pros use", and even Halo proved this, with the stupid love of the sandbox-killing BR.
How would you fix the Destiny sandbox so that there are no top-tier weapons?
Complete thread:
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
rhubarb,
2015-01-19, 20:11
- Nature finds a way. -
INSANEdrive,
2015-01-19, 20:51
- Nature finds a way. -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 07:47
- Consider my nightmares haunted. -
ckamp,
2015-01-20, 08:50
- Consider your nightmares blessed. -
INSANEdrive,
2015-01-20, 09:56
- Looks like the love child of Sandi Toksvig and Jeff Goldblum - scarab, 2015-01-20, 10:03
- I can never unsee this. - Velociraptor112, 2015-01-20, 10:09
- WUT??? - ckamp, 2015-01-20, 10:35
- Damn, he's handsome. - SonofMacPhisto, 2015-01-20, 11:49
- I'll just be crying in the corner. - breitzen, 2015-01-20, 12:13
- :l - iconicbanana, 2015-01-20, 12:16
- Consider your nightmares blessed. -
INSANEdrive,
2015-01-20, 09:56
- Consider my nightmares haunted. -
ckamp,
2015-01-20, 08:50
- Nature finds a way. -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 07:47
- Disgusting. -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-19, 21:03
- Why is it disgusting? -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 08:40
- Because it is cheating. -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 08:49
- Who is he cheating though? Who is the victim of this? -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 09:00
- Who is he cheating though? Who is the victim of this? -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 09:02
- SHINGEN E AND GALAHADS THE SWEETEST OF LOOT -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 09:05
- SHINGEN E AND GALAHADS THE SWEETEST OF LOOT - ZackDark, 2015-01-20, 09:07
- SHINGEN E AND GALAHADS THE SWEETEST OF LOOT -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 09:05
- Cheating does not require a victim. -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 09:48
- Ragashigo confirmed Statist -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 09:50
- Ragashigo confirmed Statist -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 10:53
- Actually, you might have a point -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 10:59
- Don't forget, Bots killed Diablo 2! - iconicbanana, 2015-01-20, 11:12
- Ragashigo confirmed Statist - Morpheus, 2015-01-20, 12:23
- Ragashigo confirmed Statist -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 12:45
- Ragashigo confirmed Statist - Claude Errera, 2015-01-20, 12:53
- You're doing that thing again. -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-20, 13:04
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 13:06
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-20, 13:15
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 13:18
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-20, 13:24
- Oops - iconicbanana, 2015-01-20, 13:25
- Hit the wrong button there. - iconicbanana, 2015-01-20, 13:29
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
DiscipleN2k,
2015-01-20, 13:43
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 13:45
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
DiscipleN2k,
2015-01-20, 13:54
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. - iconicbanana, 2015-01-20, 13:57
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
DiscipleN2k,
2015-01-20, 13:54
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 13:45
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-20, 13:24
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 13:18
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-20, 13:15
- You're doing that thing again. -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 13:11
- Wait, wut? -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 13:15
- Wait, wut? -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 13:45
- Gotcha - iconicbanana, 2015-01-20, 13:47
- Wait, wut? -
Morpheus,
2015-01-21, 19:45
- Wait, wut? - Cody Miller, 2015-01-22, 00:04
- Wait, wut? - Quirel, 2015-01-22, 02:24
- Wait, wut? -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 13:45
- Wait, wut? -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 13:15
- You're doing that thing again. -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 13:12
- False, as usual, Cody. -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 18:37
- False, as usual, Cody. -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 18:53
- False, as usual, Cody. -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 19:13
- False, as usual, Cody. -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 19:25
- False, as usual, Cody. - Malagate, 2015-01-21, 15:52
- ...There's A Gun On There Called The SVU? - Morpheus, 2015-01-21, 20:02
- False, as usual, Cody. -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 19:25
- False, as usual, Cody. -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 19:13
- I like having munky here - ZackDark, 2015-01-20, 21:08
- False, as usual, Cody. - CruelLEGACEY, 2015-01-21, 16:27
- False, as usual, Cody. -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 18:53
- False, as usual, Cody. -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 18:37
- I have to disagree, I thought this was the only good point. -
iconicbanana,
2015-01-20, 13:06
- Actually, you might have a point -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 10:59
- Ragashigo confirmed Statist -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 10:53
- Ragashigo confirmed Statist -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 09:50
- Who is he cheating though? Who is the victim of this? -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 09:02
- Because it is cheating. - Revenant1988, 2015-01-20, 09:03
- Because it is cheating. -
bluerunner,
2015-01-20, 10:38
- Because it is cheating. -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 10:58
- What if he trained a hamster to do it? -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 11:51
- What if he trained a hamster to do it? -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-20, 12:02
- No! Don't stop him. -
SonofMacPhisto,
2015-01-20, 12:06
- Heh. - iconicbanana, 2015-01-20, 12:07
- Gotta love SMBC - ZackDark, 2015-01-20, 14:18
- No! Don't stop him. -
SonofMacPhisto,
2015-01-20, 12:06
- What if he trained a hamster to do it? -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-20, 12:02
- What if he trained a hamster to do it? -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 11:51
- Because it is cheating. -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 10:58
- Who is he cheating though? Who is the victim of this? -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 09:00
- Because it is cheating. -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 08:49
- Why is it disgusting? -
Spec ops Grunt,
2015-01-20, 08:40
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding - Fuertisimo, 2015-01-19, 21:15
- What a waste of talent -
ZackDark,
2015-01-19, 21:18
- What a waste of talent - Mid7night, 2015-01-20, 06:06
- More Living Proof That The Dark Beyond Rocks. XD - Morpheus, 2015-01-19, 22:10
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Mid7night,
2015-01-20, 06:16
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 09:26
- Why is it never the person who is horrible? -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 09:50
- Did he kill your dog also? - Spec ops Grunt, 2015-01-20, 09:53
- Why is it never the person who is horrible? - Cody Miller, 2015-01-20, 09:55
- This person is horrible? lol -
SonofMacPhisto,
2015-01-20, 11:56
- This person is horrible? lol -
Avateur,
2015-01-20, 17:25
- You're in the running for the sarcasm category I see :) - Ragashingo, 2015-01-20, 17:38
- This person is horrible? lol -
Avateur,
2015-01-20, 17:25
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
ckamp,
2015-01-20, 10:25
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding - SonofMacPhisto, 2015-01-20, 11:58
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 12:59
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 13:28
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 13:35
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 14:03
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 15:15
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
DiscipleN2k,
2015-01-20, 15:55
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 17:06
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding - DiscipleN2k, 2015-01-20, 17:34
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 17:06
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 16:29
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 18:09
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 19:02
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 21:26
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-21, 00:02
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Korny,
2015-01-21, 01:04
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding - Cody Miller, 2015-01-21, 07:34
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Korny,
2015-01-21, 01:04
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-21, 00:02
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 21:26
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 19:02
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 18:09
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding - Cody Miller, 2015-01-20, 16:31
- A common inventory would make life easier - scarab, 2015-01-21, 10:00
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
DiscipleN2k,
2015-01-20, 15:55
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 15:15
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 14:03
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 13:35
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 13:28
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 13:31
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding - Claude Errera, 2015-01-20, 16:02
- Why is it never the person who is horrible? -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 09:50
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Claude Errera,
2015-01-20, 10:13
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Mid7night,
2015-01-20, 12:23
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Claude Errera,
2015-01-20, 12:59
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Mid7night,
2015-01-20, 15:56
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 17:14
- My main got nightfall exotics and legendaries for my alts - Spec ops Grunt, 2015-01-20, 18:25
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Ragashingo,
2015-01-20, 17:14
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Mid7night,
2015-01-20, 15:56
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Claude Errera,
2015-01-20, 12:59
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Mid7night,
2015-01-20, 12:23
- Smart man automates Destiny grinding -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 09:26
- Wouldn't it be easier to just...play? -
yakaman,
2015-01-20, 06:21
- Well, yeah.... -
Mid7night,
2015-01-20, 07:23
- Well, yeah.... -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 08:19
- Exactly! -
Mid7night,
2015-01-20, 09:41
- +1 - ckamp, 2015-01-20, 10:27
- Exactly! -
SonofMacPhisto,
2015-01-20, 12:08
- Exactly! -
Claude Errera,
2015-01-20, 13:00
- Exactly! -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 13:04
- Exactly! -
Claude Errera,
2015-01-20, 13:10
- Exactly! -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 13:16
- HoloCouch. Problem solved. - CyberKN, 2015-01-20, 13:18
- Exactly! -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-20, 13:20
- Exactly! -
Claude Errera,
2015-01-20, 15:54
- Just don't make a copy of a copy and you'll be fine. - rhubarb, 2015-01-20, 16:48
- Paper Jam Claude... -
Korny,
2015-01-20, 21:29
- Paper Jam Claude... -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-21, 08:33
- Paper Jam Claude... - Korny, 2015-01-21, 08:56
- Paper Jam Claude... -
Revenant1988,
2015-01-21, 08:33
- Exactly! -
Claude Errera,
2015-01-20, 15:54
- Exactly! - Ragashingo, 2015-01-20, 14:03
- Exactly! -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 13:16
- Exactly! -
Claude Errera,
2015-01-20, 13:10
- Exactly! -
Cody Miller,
2015-01-20, 13:04
- Exactly! -
Claude Errera,
2015-01-20, 13:00
- Exactly! -
Mid7night,
2015-01-20, 09:41
- Well, yeah.... -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 08:19
- Well, yeah.... -
Mid7night,
2015-01-20, 07:23
- Amazing - RC, 2015-01-20, 07:07
- Exclusion Zone -
unoudid,
2015-01-20, 08:21
- Not a choke point -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 08:47
- Someone needs to get on that then - unoudid, 2015-01-20, 09:05
- Not a choke point -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 08:47
- I can't imagine anyone making a bot to play AotCR. -
scarab,
2015-01-20, 09:44
- I can't imagine anyone making a bot to play AotCR. -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 10:01
- I have NEVER managed that. -
scarab,
2015-01-20, 10:06
- I never asked for this - Spec ops Grunt, 2015-01-20, 11:53
- Macro? - RC, 2015-01-20, 15:33
- I have NEVER managed that. -
scarab,
2015-01-20, 10:06
- I can't imagine anyone making a bot to play AotCR. -
ZackDark,
2015-01-20, 10:01
- Kirk Hamilton is right - SonofMacPhisto, 2015-01-20, 11:57
- Nature finds a way. -
INSANEdrive,
2015-01-19, 20:51