Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards
by Cody Miller 
, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, April 23, 2013, 10:31 (4238 days ago) @ electricpirate
I'm going to focus on your main reason for opposing player rewards (and by extension player penalties ), which is that focusing on the future somehow diminishes the experience in the now. RPGs are the most common example of this, they focus nearly entirely on the future, but I think strategy games are a better example. The quote above is Sid Meier's, of Civilization fame. Focusing on the future, and using player investment as a mechanism is when way to drive interesting choices in the now.
You are not interpreting my point correctly. The moment to moment enjoyment of the game OF COURSE INCLUDES DECISIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE, such as strategic choices, or planning for future encounters. In your example of a turn based strategy game, yes you have to be thinking ahead, BUT THAT MANIFESTS ITSELF AS DECISIONS YOU MAKE IN THE MOMENT OT MOMENT PLAY, which are themselves enjoyable.
You are also wrong in thinking that opposing rewards means opposing penalties.
Complete thread:
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-19, 16:13
![[*]](themes/default/images/complete_thread.png "Open whole thread")
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 17:00
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-20, 11:26
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-20, 12:01
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - stabbim, 2013-04-23, 09:09
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-20, 12:01
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-20, 11:26
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-19, 17:00
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Ragashingo,
2013-04-19, 17:42
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-19, 17:49
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Malagate, 2013-04-19, 18:13
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-19, 17:49
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-19, 18:53
- "Only a Miller deals in absolutes." -Oobedoob Benubi
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-
Leviathan,
2013-04-19, 20:18
- Worst thought out line ever in a movie -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 20:21
- Worst thought out [...] movie. -
Leviathan,
2013-04-19, 21:47
- Battles were pretty sweet, though -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 22:04
- Contradicts "Do or Do Not, There is No Try" -
RaichuKFM,
2013-04-20, 07:03
- And "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" -
Quirel,
2013-04-20, 22:50
- I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough. It gets everywhere -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-21, 13:06
- You don’t want to sell me death sticks. -
Xenos,
2013-04-21, 14:37
- "I thought they smelled bad on the outside." -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 16:20
- WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you... -
Leviathan,
2013-04-21, 19:14
- WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you... -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 21:58
- This thread is getting heavy, Doc. -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-22, 08:24
- Is that a quote from VII? -
Xenos,
2013-04-22, 08:52
- We've been here before, -
Chewbaccawakka,
2013-04-22, 10:02
- It is a strange fate... -
Mr Daax,
2013-04-22, 22:26
- That is the sound of inevitability... -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 06:48
- That is the sound of inevitability...
- It is a strange fate... -
Mr Daax,
2013-04-22, 22:26
- Is that a quote from VII? - Cody Miller, 2013-04-22, 10:45
- We've been here before, -
Chewbaccawakka,
2013-04-22, 10:02
- Is that a quote from VII? -
Xenos,
2013-04-22, 08:52
- This thread is getting heavy, Doc. -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-22, 08:24
- WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you... -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 21:58
- WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you...
- Not just the men, but the WOMEN, and the CHILDREN too! -
Cold,
2013-04-22, 11:48
- Now THIS is Pod Racing! -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-22, 14:08
- It's working! It's workiiiiiiiing! -
ZackDark,
2013-04-22, 14:09
- Holy Nostalgia -
katancik,
2013-04-22, 20:47
- Yippeee! -
Quirel,
2013-04-22, 20:54
- Holy Nostalgia
- It's working! It's workiiiiiiiing!
- Now THIS is Pod Racing!
- "I thought they smelled bad on the outside."
- You don’t want to sell me death sticks.
- I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough. It gets everywhere
- And "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"
- Contradicts "Do or Do Not, There is No Try"
- Battles were pretty sweet, though
- Worst thought out [...] movie.
- Worst thought out line ever in a movie
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Kalamari, 2013-04-20, 09:24
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-20, 10:58
- yes - Decom, 2013-04-20, 14:44
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 05:49
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 08:46
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:09
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - ZackDark, 2013-04-21, 09:28
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - John Hopson, 2013-04-22, 07:27
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:09
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-21, 09:09
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:11
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-21, 09:32
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:38
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
General Vagueness,
2013-05-09, 12:51
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Ragashingo, 2013-05-09, 13:13
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
General Vagueness,
2013-05-09, 12:51
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
RaichuKFM,
2013-04-21, 09:50
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-21, 12:34
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-21, 13:39
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 07:00
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Xenos,
2013-04-24, 07:40
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 08:01
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 08:11
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 08:01
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Xenos,
2013-04-24, 07:40
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Claude Errera, 2013-05-09, 13:21
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:38
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-21, 09:32
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:11
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
kapowaz,
2013-04-22, 09:14
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-22, 10:23
- The problem is... -
kapowaz,
2013-04-23, 01:43
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-23, 08:27
- The problem is... -
Xenos,
2013-04-23, 10:04
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-23, 10:37
- Glad we agree :) -
Xenos,
2013-04-23, 10:44
- Whoo!!!! - breitzen, 2013-04-23, 10:52
- Glad we agree :) -
Xenos,
2013-04-23, 10:44
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-23, 10:37
- The problem is... -
Xenos,
2013-04-23, 10:04
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-23, 08:27
- The problem is... -
kapowaz,
2013-04-23, 01:43
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-22, 10:44
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-22, 11:57
- Great Explanation! - breitzen, 2013-04-22, 12:35
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - uberfoop, 2013-04-22, 23:31
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 07:19
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-24, 08:00
- Why reward-motivated gaming can devalue the game experience -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 08:02
- Why reward-motivated gaming can devalue the game experience
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-24, 08:00
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-22, 11:57
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cold,
2013-04-22, 12:04
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
RaichuKFM,
2013-04-22, 12:26
- Multitude of Difficulty Levels -
Cold,
2013-04-23, 08:07
- Multitude of Difficulty Levels -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 07:30
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 09:04
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 10:30
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Xenos,
2013-04-24, 11:11
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 12:47
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:04
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Cold, 2013-04-24, 13:18
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:04
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 12:47
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 12:44
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:00
- That is the very point... -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 13:07
- That is the very point... -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:11
- That is the very point... - Cold, 2013-04-24, 13:22
- That is the very point... -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:11
- That is the very point... -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 13:07
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:00
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Xenos,
2013-04-24, 11:11
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 10:30
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 09:04
- Multitude of Difficulty Levels -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 07:30
- Multitude of Difficulty Levels -
Cold,
2013-04-23, 08:07
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
RaichuKFM,
2013-04-22, 12:26
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-22, 10:23
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 08:46
- This is one of my problems with playing online. -
Mercury,
2013-04-22, 14:39
- Spot on. -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 07:32
- Spot on.
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - stabbim, 2013-04-23, 09:02
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
electricpirate,
2013-04-23, 10:16
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-23, 10:31
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
electricpirate,
2013-04-23, 11:23
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-23, 11:40
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-23, 12:11
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - electricpirate, 2013-04-23, 12:16
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Kermit,
2013-04-23, 12:25
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-23, 14:51
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Kermit,
2013-04-23, 16:26
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 07:47
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
stabbim,
2013-04-24, 09:35
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 10:18
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 10:26
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - stabbim, 2013-04-24, 15:22
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 10:18
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Kermit,
2013-04-23, 16:26
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-23, 14:51
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-28, 21:48
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-29, 03:58
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - thebruce, 2013-04-29, 06:42
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Kermit, 2013-04-29, 08:36
- Swings and round-a-bouts, Mr. Miller -
RC,
2013-04-29, 11:03
- Swings and round-a-bouts, Mr. Miller - Cody Miller, 2013-04-29, 11:39
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - electricpirate, 2013-05-03, 07:34
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - General Vagueness, 2013-05-09, 16:27
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-23, 11:40
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
electricpirate,
2013-04-23, 11:23
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-23, 10:31
- Kinda OT but . . . -
Jillybean,
2013-04-24, 08:05
- Nope, you're the devil! *NM* - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 08:14
- Kinda OT but . . . - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-24, 14:18
- Kinda OT but . . . -
Flynn J Taggart,
2013-04-24, 17:04
- Kinda OT but . . . - Cody Miller, 2013-04-24, 19:26
- Not much to add to the current conversation, but... -
Mr Daax,
2013-04-24, 16:01
- +1. Always thought so too. -
ZackDark,
2013-04-24, 17:12
- Dude's a genuine 21st century Socrates - Stephen Laughlin, 2013-04-28, 20:19
- +1. Always thought so too.
- A short commentary on games design -
Oz Mills,
2013-04-30, 08:15
- A short commentary on games design -
kapowaz,
2013-04-30, 15:22
- A short commentary on games design - Oz Mills, 2013-05-01, 02:29
- A short commentary on games design -
kapowaz,
2013-04-30, 15:22
- SO WHO WON? -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-30, 19:29
- I wasn't aware we needed a winner. *NM* -
Oz Mills,
2013-05-01, 01:42
- EVERYBODY. -
RaichuKFM,
2013-05-01, 03:48
- EVERYBODY. - ZackDark, 2013-05-01, 08:39
- Jury's still out -
thebruce,
2013-05-01, 07:55
- Jury's still out - Oz Mills, 2013-05-01, 08:18
- Ahah oops! -
Cody Miller,
2013-05-01, 15:23
- Heh, they just had. =P -
ZackDark,
2013-05-01, 20:38
- Heh, they just had. =P
- I wasn't aware we needed a winner. *NM*
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 17:00