Joel was never given a redemption (*Part II spoilz*) (Fan Creations)

by Korny , Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, January 21, 2023, 16:29 (674 days ago) @ Anna Komnene

The story hinges upon Joel failing with his biological daughter, and thus taking care of Ellie as an adopted daughter for redemption. But it just doesn't work if his daughter was adopted too… it's not really a second chance, it's not Joel desperately trying to make peace. It'd be just a redo. Further, children can just happen, so not being a great father but trying to after you realize that to your biological child, is shitty but at least admirable and I think people would root for you. But if you failed your adopted child? Well you chose it, so you're just a piece of shit.

Dude's a selfish asshole when we see him after the time jump, and he's a selfish asshole at the end when he can't let Ellie die because. He saves her because *he* needs her -- not because it's wrong for her to die.

Yup. It’s this very personal failing that sets the table for Part II. While Abby wasn’t right in killing him, Joel ultimately deserved it, and it’s funny that despite the bigger stakes, ultimately, they don’t matter at all to Ellie and Abby either. It’s just a personal issue of selfish actions that make the world a worse place. And one bad turn begets another.

The key message of Part II was never “revenge bad”. It was about how self-destructive selfishness is.
Ultimately, Joel got what he wanted, but at the cost of their relationship, the lives of those he hurt, and the future of the entire human race.
Abby got what she wanted, but it didn’t heal any of her wounds, and her friends paid the price.
And for every decision Ellie made to go after what she wanted (the truth, justice, revenge, etc.), it cost her the people she loved, one by one.

I pray that if/when the show does tackle Part II, the HBO audiences that were taught nuance in character writing by Game of Thrones will be the ones leading the discussion, as opposed to the incel game crowd who hated Part II because “We loVeD JoEL!”