Feat. Joe Blackburn (Game Director, Destiny 2) & Dan McAuliffe (Assistant General Manager)

• PC Gamer
  
• Gamesradar
  
• Gamespot

I'd like to read y'alls takes. (Before I post, uh, mine. Heh.)

Sorry, man. I was going to read those and try and partake in the discussion, but . . .

Well, I didn’t make it all the way through the first one before I got bored. I just don’t care. Not in a bad way. Just . . . we’re getting more Destiny. That’s all I really need to know at this point. I’ll figure out the particulars when I play it.

Maybe you just caught me on a bad day, but I didn’t find anything in that first article particularly noteworthy. I’m going to assume the others are mostly the same.

I’ll certainly read your thoughts, though. Maybe you’ll highlight something interesting I missed.

Sorry, man. I was going to read those and try and partake in the discussion, but . . .

Well, I didn’t make it all the way through the first one before I got bored. I just don’t care. Not in a bad way. Just . . . we’re getting more Destiny. That’s all I really need to know at this point. I’ll figure out the particulars when I play it.

Maybe you just caught me on a bad day, but I didn’t find anything in that first article particularly noteworthy. I’m going to assume the others are mostly the same.

I’ll certainly read your thoughts, though. Maybe you’ll highlight something interesting I missed.

That's. That's just all sorts of depressing. OVERALL... it's not at you cheapLEY. Apparently the main post has been clicked on over 50 times and... nothing. And yeah, it may be just timing, but...eh. It's a shame. But it's also mildly expected at this point. There are so many vectors, options to choose where you can converse through. It seems more and more that DBO is the -mildly quaint- town drained by the likes of Reddit and (unsearchable) Discord and the over all fatigue that this "modern" internet brings. Shit, what EVERYTHING brings now. Man I just want to geek out without all the crap spyware ad-bot crap that keeps getting pushed into everything else now a days. It all sure doesn't seem like an improvement to me. (Thank you for your sacrifice, Wu. We take your fandom and Web Dev for granted.)

cheapLEY; thank you for saying something. Then again, if you didn't, no one else would I guess, as we're both by far the most active posters @ DBO at this point. There is actually something in those conversations that is relevant to our mutual grievance about the light system. But yeah, guess I'll finish my rant, which I suppose ironically starts off with me saying how I tried not to rant. Double meaning now.

Ah, well I've got some writing to finish up then.

Heh, I get it. This place is a ghost town sometimes. To be expected, I suppose. Destiny is pretty old now, and lots of folks have moved on. And most of the folks here play together often enough that those conversations just happen there.

I saw your post when it went up, but I was camping over the weekend and just sort of forgot to actually look at the articles until tonight.

Admittedly, I didn’t even look at the second and third links. I’ll do that before I go to bed. The first one was a hard read for me. I’d rather just a transcript of the interview. I don’t need all the explanatory filler between the relevant quotes. It’s just repeating Bungie’s showcase and made my eyes glaze over a bit.

Heh, I get it. This place is a ghost town sometimes. To be expected, I suppose. Destiny is pretty old now, and lots of folks have moved on. And most of the folks here play together often enough that those conversations just happen there.

I saw your post when it went up, but I was camping over the weekend and just sort of forgot to actually look at the articles until tonight.

There is nothing I have to say about Destiny that should require any attention, eseapsully on a weekend camp out. (Sounds fun!) Sea Bears on the other hand... ahhh, but don't get me started.

Admittedly, I didn’t even look at the second and third links. I’ll do that before I go to bed. The first one was a hard read for me. I’d rather just a transcript of the interview. I don’t need all the explanatory filler between the relevant quotes. It’s just repeating Bungie’s showcase and made my eyes glaze over a bit.

Yeah, the PC Gamer one is all over (and the site is right cancer), and it's true that most of the stuff in these is a rehash of what has been already said. Not completely, but a lot. If it strikes ya as something already discussed than jump a sentence or two.

TL;DR Lotta dirt. Some gold. I found certain tidbits interesting, anyway.

I’ll certainly read your thoughts, though. Maybe you’ll highlight something interesting I missed.

Indeed. That and... a little more.

---------------------------------------------------------

I tried.

I really. Really really did.

But, apparently, my passion is measured by degrees of power, amplified by the force of whatever convictions this noggin of mine has made. Woe on to me, as to be so aware and yet for such awareness to be ever so, apparently, irrelevant.

Joe Blackburn, the Game Director for Destiny 2, who, at his own admission, finds himself surrounded by humans smarter than himself (a common misconception), has been doing some rounds of interviews.

I should not have read them, but, I always was going to. As I, ever longing for intelligible discussion among producers and developers about what (for me, for now) is ultimately a past-time, can never seem to get more then these always far-foggier lenses for which we have to read. (The "far-foggier lenses" being such as the articles linked in the root of this post). They are merely a jest, a mere description of what makes up the many minds behind the curtain. But yet, here I sit and waste my passion more still, triggered by mere residue. (The blurbs we get. Very easy to misconstrue.)

SO! What is it this time? Aw, you know. Some old, some new... though maybe not so new since Game of Thrones and Star Wars went through this sheer nonsense too, so, whatever. At least one thing you can learn from history is how folks don't learn from history, right? (Though in fairness, there a quite a lot of it.)

Let's start with the first one from PC Gamer.

It has some interesting enough information, I admit. Little tidbits in the creation of Strand, and indeed admitting they have an over abundance of ideas for new subclasses. Thoughts about folks getting "Out of Bounds" with Strand. The word "cyberpunk" is mentioned at one point, but by whom? Oh, mystery! Talk about "Tormentors", the "end to sunsetting" (again), and even... oh. oh no ._.

Joe Blackburn talked about my Destiny pet peeve.

So, uh... fun fact. This part right here was going to be a post on its own before I, TRIED, to get some far more level heads into the mix. But alas, all I seem to have is cheapLEY. ;D ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well, lets start with some scrap of a former introduction to the very post you are reading now (with the title being the big words there above). The start I expressed at the top (and now elsewhere). It started big...

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.......................................................ok, so look.

*strong sigh*

• #1 The Vault and all its time-sucking ills is a symptom. Not the disease.
  
• #2 You have the answer already, Bungie. You've even impoved on the basis of the answer (#3), and yet still didn't use it.
  
• #3 Crafting is potentially the best thing to happen to Destiny the Game, ever. (But it shouldn't be.)

HI THERE! :D

I'm INSANEdrive, and I make long posts nobody reads on a fourm nobody visits. AND WHY DO I DO THIS YOU ASK!?

... I uh, um.... LOOK! PUPPIES!

Awwww.

...like that see. Classic INSANEdrive. But get this! I somehow managed to make it smaller and smaller and smaller until I condensed my Destiny pet peeve angst into a repurposed comic.

It's... reprehensibly frustrating how, so very clearly I can see the end-to-end conceptual design which is already laid out throughout Destines very bones, and even interconnected throughout the API though D.I.M and even Bungies own App... and yet, it seems all for not. aaaaaAAAAAaaaa. It's why I made the post with the crazy-esk bit, since... goodness how much and how long have I been rambling about this!? Man Alive!

I'm tired. ...lol.

And that was the post... but, oh no. There is more. There's some other stuff in the PC article too. "Playlist activity and subclass refresh thoughts", Exotic armor thoughts, "Weapon perk discourse", so on so on. Its a solid all rounder.

Then we get to...

Might be some new tidbits and colorful language in here for folks. I only use curse words to make PR nervous. https://t.co/NstmN6LlIi

— Joe Blackburn (@joegoroth) September 1, 2022

https://www.gamesradar.com/destiny-2-leads-on-lightfalls-story-fixing-power-levels-sunset-expansions-and-helping-new-...

In it we get talk of "long-term promises"and how "broad the universe" is. More information about Strand (such as where the grappling hook lives in the controls), "Helping people get into Destiny 2", and ...OOOOOoOoo... Power level and the leveling experience?

That last paragraph is particularly good, and if I was a community manager I'd be writing this down. It gives...

• Not only Confirmation, but the size of Bungies intent in how much change they may want to make towards a long talked about community gripe. ("We would still like to make major changes to the Power system")
  
• A potential implication to why it's been this way for so long. ("We looked at crafting as a scary thing to add to Destiny, and Power is that times 10.")
  
• Weighed thoughts, even though they are maximally broad. ("There's some good stuff that Power does for the game, and there's some really bad stuff that Power is doing to Destiny right now.")
  • I am of the impression that Bungie can never go wrong in admitting the extensive considerations that are required in making this balloon of a game. It's always interesting, and everyone is potentially smarter from the exercise. Jargon aside, everyone wins.
• ...and finally, the roughest of outlines in how long it might take to implement, and why that is.
  (Some of which being "I think what you're gonna see us do is some experiments that are helping us understand if we're making the right long-term plays for Power and helping us dial that in. If we're gonna do this overhaul, can we have some good data before we get there?")

Do y'all see how GOOD that paragraph is!? In the sentence at the end, it's even outright expressed that Lightfall may see some "weird experiments", and with this context here... there's your why! This paragraph I'm pointing out here has to be the best paragraph I've ever seen come from a Bungie representative. There is no misconstruing information here, me thinks.

And so, with that praise said... naturally, it's all up in flames with the next one.

When Bungie dropped the Lightfall trailer, it was wholly different from what I expected from something called "Lightfall." So I asked @joegoroth and @DJMcAuliffe about the mood and tone of the next Destiny expansion and they cited some exciting influences. https://t.co/K5IwIwVRem

— Phil Hornshaw (@philhornshaw) September 1, 2022

"Bungie Wants Destiny 2: Lightfall To Feel Like Blade Runner Meets Independence Day"

This next one, from Gamespot, is the 2nd reason you have to thank for this immense splooge of boondoggle buffoonery. My babbling mass of blah blah blah. Also, I'm going to presume that everyone has read my post HERE, as it's context for a fair amount of my...um, why I say as I do.

I mentioned Game of Thrones & Starwars, yes? Well, I'll get to that here.

TL;DR of this portion is; Consistency is hard, and prolonged Consistency is harder, but that is no excuse to simply go "fuck it, I want a pony" when you're a scientist in the middle of Antarctica who's supposed to be studying ice core samples.

(After writing note: ...well, maybe. That's kind the TL;DR of what I wanted to say, but then I started ranting so, yeah. You'll see.)

So then, let's get this over with. It's easy to format a response to quotes, thus... quote #1.

"When that Beyond Light showcase was coming out and had Witch Queen, Lightfall, and The Final Shape, I think in that moment, we knew narratively where we needed to be," Destiny 2 director Joe Blackburn said in an interview with GameSpot. "We knew that, in Beyond Light, we're going to start teasing the Darkness. In Witch Queen, we have got to put the Witness on the chessboard for real. We knew where we needed to be in The Final Shape, and we knew a few beats that needed to happen in between those, narratively.

So far, so good.

"I think it was really when we started planning The Witch Queen and we started looking at the surrounding seasons, we said, 'Okay, with Witch Queen, we really like True Detective, we really want to go swampy and moody.' Then we looked at Shadowkeep and Beyond Light, how they shaped up, and how the seasons were shaping up, and we said, 'Okay, we know the mood The Final Shape needs to be.' And we were like, 'Oh, my gosh, is this going to be the heaviest five years of Destiny that we've ever made? Are we going to fill one note throughout this whole thing?'"

"We know the mood The Final Shape needs to be" eh? Hint hint, wink wink, and yet... you call this!?-planning!

THIS WHOLESALE (advertised) TONAL SHIFT... you, you call that planning!? Fools, this (almost total) left field non-sense is -||- this close to "Somehow Palpatine has returned" in pure story-that-no-doubt-shall-be-filled-in-later nonsense. It might not technically be a MacGuffin, but right now, BOY does it feel like it where I sit. But the real kicker that gnaws at my geeking out, is...

'Oh, my gosh, is this going to be the heaviest five years of Destiny that we've ever made? Are we going to fill one note throughout this whole thing?'"

FUK-ING! YES! THAT WAS THE WHOLE, FLIPP'N, SELL. ... >_< grrrr... look LOOK, let me show you something I made ALLLL the way back in the 2013 "Look at this new Bungie game called Destiny" days.

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?mode=entry&id=8419

Look at that, so funny. Ha ha. But look at what I'm referencing for comical effect? You know what that is? That is THE sell. The root story point for the WHOLE of this big blasted thing.

Full Quote;

The stories tell of a golden age long ago, when our civilization spanned the system. It was a bright and hopeful time. But it didn't last.

Something hit us. Knocked us down and tried to stamp us out. No one knows exactly what, but we do know this: very few of us survived, and those that did owe their lives to the The Traveler. Legends say The Traveler sacrificed itself to save us. The mysterious sphere still hangs where it made its last stand, low above the Earth, keeping silent watch.

The years that followed the collapse of the golden age were hard, but slowly we joined together to build a city beneath The Traveler. And now we've begun to venture back into the wild, only to find that we're not alone.

Strange and deadly creatures have occupied our old worlds. And they're pressing hard against The City, probing for a weakness, trying to stamp us out for good.

Your story begins at this moment of great adventure and peril. You are a Guardian of The City; a soldier able to wield some of The Traveler's incredible power. If you can find a way to save The City - to reclaim all that we have lost - you will become legend. If you fail, the last light of civilization will go out!

So then, since that point we've, slowly... sometimes VERY VERY slowly, progressed from this point in both lore and play. So when I see...

'Oh, my gosh, is this going to be the heaviest five years of Destiny that we've ever made? Are we going to fill one note throughout this whole thing?'"

The ANSWER is YES! BUT IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT DARKNESS! YOU COULD HAVE MADE THIS YOUR VERY OWN LORD OF THE RINGS, AND YOU DROPPED THE GOSH DARN BALL! OH MY GOODNESS!

How in even the darkest of times, little actions of good (or light) can have larger impacts against the foreboding dark. How the power of a community (WHAT IS DESTINY THE GAME AGAIN? YEAH!?) can counter even the largest overpowering things.

...and you fucking dropped it. This may end up being TOTALLY WRONG, but the tone I see right now? You fucking dropped it, you fucking idiots. It's not going to effect your money cow, but it makes me so SO very sad to what could have been without being scrambled about like an egg.

And then... oh shit. He continues.

Blackburn said the team started looking at how it could avoid making its expansions feel too tonally similar, while still maintaining the story it had set out. The Light and Darkness saga is headed toward a climax in which players will finally face an ultimate villain that's been teased since the original story of Destiny 1. The threat is enormous--Destiny already takes place in a post-apocalyptic future world, and it was that villain, the Witness, who caused the apocalypse to begin with. The Witness is returning to finish the job it started with that apocalypse, which is known as the Collapse, so Bungie also needs to make sure the story carries the proper gravity to befit something so dire.

Oh, so mildly what I just said (I don't pre-read*, so my comments here are basically a textual "Let's React"). Well then, do continue.

*I read it before, but I forgot some parts, so I read it again to finish what I started.

"As we started getting towards Lightfall, we said, 'Hey, how can we keep the stakes high but change the mood for a release?'" Blackburn continued. "We looked at things like The Empire Strikes Back, that has a feeling of, oh, my gosh, [the heroes] lose, but the movie doesn't feel like they lose the whole time. We started to look at, okay, what are things with really high stakes that have a different tone to them? I think we got really attracted to sort of blockbuster action movies.

There is more to this quote (another paragraph) involving movies. And I can't totally besmirch this, we find inspiration where we find inspiration. That said, I do suspect that there may have been too much external inspiration, and not enough internal (lore) exploration to bring about what we see today.

Lots more text after that until we get to...

"I'll say just straight up, this is a big development challenge for us, because we're not Naughty Dog. We don't build these kinds of lived-in cities a thousand times," he explained. "How do you do that in a Destiny way? How do you make something feel familiar to players, but also have that little bit of that Destiny spin? Yeah, that's been a fun challenge."

I have to admit here, to being a touch shocked at this admission. I'm not going to bother with the why here, just that I'm shocked.

... heh, then... here friends comes the Coup de grâce that brought forth ALL OF THIS. This is the straw.

Finding ways to subvert player expectations is...

Did this guy... just say... subvert. player. ex-pect-tay-tioooooooooons! AAAAAAAAAAAA!!

GAME OF THRONES S8 PSTD TRIGGER

STAR WARS SEQUEL PSTD TRIGGER

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

THERE IS NEVER A GOOD REASON FOR THIS PHRASE IN ENTERTAINMENT! Do not go FULL M. Night! NEVER GO FULL SHYAMALAN! Holy Halberd BATMAN! How is it there are still folks who have not learned this fucking lesson about mature lasting story structure!

FOLLOW THE RULES. FOLLOW THE TONE.

THERE IS NO ONE THAT... then again, geeze... whatever, keep rolling...GOES TO A Wes Anderson film, who would be DELIGHTED if it suddenly went Cronenberg to "subvert expectations". PART OF YOUR JOB, when you have reign to a franchise is... YOU HONOR THE (maximum presumably) INTELLIGENCE OF YOUR AUDIENCE!

THEY ARE THERE FOR A REASON! GIVE THEM WHAT THEY CAME TO SEE! (And don't be a huge ego dick in the process and think your vision is bigger then the whole of a franchise, only to be buoyed by folks whom only often casually comprehend the franchise, resulting in a net poison to the fan base.)

When folks went to watch Game of Thrones, they expected SHARP writing, motions of power though either word or action, and a logical process in each move of the game. Also, it helps if you can see the video. That's what folks were a fan of, THAT's why they kept coming back (at least). SO, naturally it makes a bunch of sense to "subvert expectations" and not do that. OH! SO CLEVER! I wonder how people reacted to that!

FOR STARWARS THEY... actually... nah, if you know you know.

Unless you're well versed in the story techniques of Rod Serling and/or Jordan Peele (not to say there aren't others), BROTHER... GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE with that fucking story excuse bullshit. It's feigned intelligence, a pretense of many sorts, and I fucking loath it. FUuuCK!

(Breathless) Oh... my goodness. fuck. Ok... let's try this again.

Finding ways to subvert player expectations is essential to making Destiny 2 work overall, Blackburn explained. ...

MOTHER. Fuh---aaaaa... I know I'm formatting this... you know... you know, I disagree VEHEMENTLY, and moving on.

...He said the studio spends a lot of time thinking about the game and franchise as a whole, and that longview can push expansions in specific directions. The trick is meeting the needs of the game, like including specific types of enemies at certain destinations, while also making sure new Destiny 2 content still feels fresh.

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH... so then, remember that REQUIRED ASSUMPTION I mentioned at the top. The post I presume everyone has seen. HERE I FLIPPEN' GO AGAIN FOLKS! AHEM! AGAIN, AGAIN!

...He said the studio spends a lot of time thinking about the game and franchise as a whole, and that longview can push expansions in specific directions. The trick is meeting the needs of the game, like including specific types of enemies at certain destinations, while also making sure new Destiny 2 content still feels fresh.

Mr.Blackburn SIR?! ARE YOU FOR FUCKING REAL!

...you know, well, probably don't, in my actual every day life (or whatever this mildly sentient meat puppetry is) I don't really swear much. Even internet wise, I'm actually quite chill. But then my staggered disbelief to which I witness smashes into my casual geekdom... and suddenly, well...

DOES THIS GUY PLAY THIS FUK'N GAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!... pretty weird huh? Eh. Anyway... where was I, oh right...

You need something that meets the needs of the game, that including specific types of enemies at certain destinations, while also making sure new Destiny 2 content still feels fresh?

Hmmm... interesting.

Well, then...CHECK THIS SHIT OUT JACK!

including specific types of enemies at certain destinations

What did the pyramid ships do WITH THAT!?!?!? YEAH? What would happen if you mixed Calus-like ambition with, I'll presume, a hive worm? BOOM! Mix in some darkness shit with that, BA-BAM.

INTERNET BRAINSTORM Bay-bEE!

You need something that meets the needs of the game

So let me guess, large spaces for us to grapple around? Hmmm. I wonder where you could find that? Let's presume for a moment the first video above doesn't count.

WHAT IS ALL THAT! YOU HAVE ALREADY SHOWN IN THE SKY BOX THE SHEER SCALE OF ALL OF THIS! And that's just ONE example!

while also making sure new Destiny 2 content still feels fresh

OPEN UP a GOSH DARN timey wimey wibbly wobbly RIFT THINGY OF THIS! WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE IN THE GOLDEN AGE! WHAT STORIES ARE HERE!!

It's... ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous how NEGLECTED this space as been. IT'S CRYING for attention, Shit, I'M CRYING for it's attention. YOU FUCKING HAVE THE ASSETS AT YOUR DISPOSAL ALREADY AND YOU JUST DON'T FUCKING USE IT AND I JUST DON'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND WHY. THIS ENTIRE SPACE should have had as much time given too it EXTRA as you've given to... ugh "Neomuna", which, oh hey by the way, really fucking original name there folks. How is it the studio that invented the phrase "hive soul fire" or whatever the fuck it was, can't pull a more creative City Name out of their ass than "Neon Moon", like fucking COME ON! Was a fucking proper name not in the budget, for fucks sake. Well, at least they didn't rip off Star Wars naming structures, right? You know, like sky walker. What are folks called again?

Ah, guess it's not important. ...uh, where was I. Oh, right... finishing up the gamespot article. Last bit.

"Even when you're planning out something like the Throne World [from The Witch Queen] or something like Neomuna, we have boards that talk about the colors of each destination," he said. "Then it's like, 'Oh, are we too blue? Are we too green? Are we too orange? Can we not add another orange planet to the game?' These are things that people talk about in a really serious way about the franchise, and all of that starts to form this constraint on, hey, these are the aliens that we need to see because of the narrative beat, but also because we haven't had a destination with them in a while. Suddenly you start to have this list of, hey, we need to hit these checkboxes, and then you start running different experiences through them and say, 'Can we make something exciting out of this?' We don't want Destiny just to feel like, yeah, they make things because of a series of constraints. It's a fun balance to be a part of, for sure."

*Sigh*

Art IS constraints, you dork. (OMG what is going on in my head right now... did I just call the lead a dork. Brain what?)

Constraints are not intrinsically bad. In fact, often, if wielded wisely, it's where brilliance comes from. EVERY INVENTION CAME, from constraints. Every style of art comes out from, constraints. So when I read what very much read like art lead considerations in the full of the paragraph, I can't help but feel some sort of magical, perhaps magnetic pull from the flat of my palm to the very point of my big dumb forehead.

We don't want Destiny just to feel like, yeah, they make things because of a series of constraints. It's a fun balance to be a part of, for sure."

AAHAH! I JUST CAN'T!!! OMG. TWO HANDS THIS TIME. AAAAAAAAAA! Please... no more... AH SHIT THERE'S MORE! ...oh wait, it's just a finishing paragraph.

Ugh. Whatever. I'm done.

Cheers folks.

Heh, I get it. This place is a ghost town sometimes. To be expected, I suppose. Destiny is pretty old now, and lots of folks have moved on. And most of the folks here play together often enough that those conversations just happen there.

I saw your post when it went up, but I was camping over the weekend and just sort of forgot to actually look at the articles until tonight.

There is nothing I have to say about Destiny that should require any attention, eseapsully on a weekend camp out. (Sounds fun!) Sea Bears on the other hand... ahhh, but don't get me started.

Admittedly, I didn’t even look at the second and third links. I’ll do that before I go to bed. The first one was a hard read for me. I’d rather just a transcript of the interview. I don’t need all the explanatory filler between the relevant quotes. It’s just repeating Bungie’s showcase and made my eyes glaze over a bit.

Yeah, the PC Gamer one is all over (and the site is right cancer), and it's true that most of the stuff in these is a rehash of what has been already said. Not completely, but a lot. If it strikes ya as something already discussed than jump a sentence or two.

TL;DR Lotta dirt. Some gold. I found certain tidbits interesting, anyway.

Hey man, I appreciate your efforts. Your writing style is unique, let us say, and not always what I'm able to attend to near bedtime. Not a criticism, just a reading, sir. I'll say again, I appreciate your efforts and your continued interest in the game and participation on this forum. I've used your top post numerous times over the past few weeks as I've gotten into back into the game. Hope we get to play together soon.

Regarding the community, there's crap that gone on here in the past year or so that has changed how I feel about the place, but I still love it ([Sam Cooke croon] for sentimental reasons). Some good people (call them contributors) have moved on, either because they've been run off by dickishness, or just life, man. It has a way of changing your priorities. My interest in Destiny now is primarily social. I've been hoarding lore from the get-go hoping the endgame makes all the missteps okay because it adds up to an ambitious accomplishment of narrative, but I'm not betting the bank on that. The game is fun and beautiful and scratches an itch, but itch-scratching time is limited. All time is limited. Space is limited. I have enough Destiny shirts. Finally.

I care about many people here. So I'm here. I cherish the memory of events and meetups, online and off, I grieve the fact that the same divisive poison infecting much of our culture has trickled into what I used to think of as a sanctuary for fans of good faith. A voice in my head says, "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." I can't take the advice. I'm in a relationship, and it's complicated. This virtual place is better than most.

You are one of those fans of good faith, and if I don't respond to your posts, it doesn't mean I'm ungrateful. Just busy. [Looks at watch.]

EDIT: wrote this then did stuff, came back, posted, and now I see an INSANE RANT™. Will read, when awake.

Hey man, I appreciate your efforts. Your writing style is unique, let us say, and not always what I'm able to attend to near bedtime. Not a criticism, just a reading, sir.

...

I'll say again, I appreciate your efforts and your continued interest in the game and participation on this forum. I've used your top post numerous times over the past few weeks as I've gotten into back into the game. Hope we get to play together soon.

Glad it's been helpful. ^_^

...
My interest in Destiny now is primarily social. I've been hoarding lore from the get-go hoping the endgame makes all the missteps okay because it adds up to an ambitious accomplishment of narrative, but I'm not betting the bank on that. The game is fun and beautiful and scratches an itch, but itch-scratching time is limited. All time is limited. Space is limited. I have enough Destiny shirts. Finally.

Heh. Yeah, I sure hope the lore holds up. It's been pretty good, quite good at some points, but... well per your edit, you'll see. And hey! You finally became legend as far as the game is concerned! Somehow you found your self with enough Destiny shirts. ;D

Quite the Achievement!

I care about many people here. So I'm here. I cherish the memory of events and meetups, online and off, I grieve the fact that the same divisive poison infecting much of our culture has trickled into what I used to think of as a sanctuary for fans of good faith. A voice in my head says, "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." I can't take the advice. I'm in a relationship, and it's complicated. This virtual place is better than most.

I blame entropy.

You are one of those fans of good faith, and if I don't respond to your posts, it doesn't mean I'm ungrateful. Just busy. [Looks at watch.]

Yeah yeah, and despite the reasons, it all still kinda sucks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Do with the time ya have.

EDIT: wrote this then did stuff, came back, posted, and now I see an INSANE RANT™. Will read, when awake.

Oh. My apologies. lol.

I just don’t think it’s as clear cut as that. They can still have a dark tone in general in terms of story and theme even if the aesthetics are neon. It’s a city under assault by Calus and the Pyramids. That’s inherently pretty dark (as dark as Destiny gets, anyway—there’s only so much you can do when we’re turning Oryx’s ass into a hat).

I get it—the obvious city to put in danger is The Last City (I still want to actually go there as a real Destination!).

Just . . . I doubt the bright aesthetics and surprise new faction of humans and general sort of hard left turn ends up actually feeling like that when it’s all said and done.

I just don’t think it’s as clear cut as that. They can still have a dark tone in general in terms of story and theme even if the aesthetics are neon. It’s a city under assault by Calus and the Pyramids. That’s inherently pretty dark (as dark as Destiny gets, anyway—there’s only so much you can do when we’re turning Oryx’s ass into a hat).

I get it—the obvious city to put in danger is The Last City (I still want to actually go there as a real Destination!).

Just . . . I doubt the bright aesthetics and surprise new faction of humans and general sort of hard left turn ends up actually feeling like that when it’s all said and done.

I know. And I hope so, but I suppose that's obviously a given. And I suspect in the later half of the lightfall season, we'll start seeing some stuff closer to earth. I've dabbled around entertainment enough to Never Trust a Trailer, but I'm still sad that instead of advertising the insurmountable odds against "Guardians make their own fate", that it's being bubblegum'd up for mass appeal. Which, having said that, makes me the biggest idiot in this conversation, as of course such is to be done.

Also, bonus points to this post for using the phrase "turning Oryx’s ass into a hat". lol

You're totally right about Bungie creating great content with great potential and then underutilizing it or letting it die on the vine. (Miss you Titan and Venus.) Unlike Game of Thrones and Star Wars, I don't think they've screwed the pooch yet (though they have gotten dangerously close to the pooch with the, um, screwing device).

Hoping the grand vision yields treasure at the end of this rainbow. Sorry for the rainbow mention; I realize the colors are part of the problem and, in your thesis, presents evidence that their eyes are off the prize. I'll get back that.

As for following through on a plan, I submit that Breaking Bad is an example of a franchise that did follow its vision and plan, yet Jesse Pinkman was supposed to die in season one, and went on to become the moral conscience of the show. And the comic relief introduced in S2 became the center of a spin-off that is arguably a better show, or at least a more complex, nuanced show, IMHO. So there's hope.

Another way of putting it: you're 100% correct about great art coming out of constraints, but it is more than that. It's also about finding gold where you didn't expect it, discovering there's more there there than you ever planned for, as you move organically through the creation process.

Back to colors, I was also put off by the Lightyear--I mean, Lightfall's pallet and tonal shift. As cheapLEY suggested, it may not have the significance we give it. Cyberpunk worlds, despite all the neon, are usually pretty fricking dark. That contrast is an essential aspect, actually.

You're totally right about Bungie creating great content with great potential and then underutilizing it or letting it die on the vine. (Miss you Titan and Venus.)

Or at least it certainly does seem that way. Bungie has always been really good about reusing assets. We've seen some of that this season with the Mars Lost Sector being repurposed into one of the seasonal activities. And I'm certainly not against new stuff, obviously. That would be silly.

Instead, I just wish they went about presenting differently. About the new stuff, and the old stuff. New stuff this close to what should be, "as advertised" or "projected as" the closing of a story arc, just seems highly unnecessary.

Unlike Game of Thrones and Star Wars, I don't think they've screwed the pooch yet (though they have gotten dangerously close to the pooch with the, um, screwing device).

They already have, multiple times in these last 8 years. The difference here is, the creation treadmill doesn't stop. If they screw up too much, in most cases, it can get patched. Just... make the ending of this saga good, right? THEN we'll see.

Hoping the grand vision yields treasure at the end of this rainbow. Sorry for the rainbow mention; I realize the colors are part of the problem and, in your thesis, presents evidence that their eyes are off the prize. I'll get back that.

Na, colors are fine. The stuff on Titan are anything but Drab! ;D It's more about what the environment has to tell. What is the story? With everything all shiny and new, the story that needs to be told is different. As I say above, the presentation of what can be told is different. One of destruction in action, instead of destruction in retrospect, and the lessons from that retrospect. And to, what I'm pointing out, is my own disappointment in that difference. I'm sure, based on the momentum they've had, that the story will be... fantastic. And at some point, we will go back to titan. But it will be with seasonal momentum, not expansion momentum. And I, in what was shown to me, am thus far saddened by that.

See also, all my raving about Europa? Part of it is scope of the space. All that expansion momentum, with new tricks added to a new space. ...so whatever. We'll see.

Another way of putting it: you're 100% correct about great art coming out of constraints, but it is more than that. It's also about finding gold where you didn't expect it, discovering there's more there there than you ever planned for, as you move organically through the creation process.

Indeed.

Back to colors, I was also put off by the Lightyear--I mean, Lightfall's pallet and tonal shift. As cheapLEY suggested, it may not have the significance we give it. Cyberpunk worlds, despite all the neon, are usually pretty fricking dark. That contrast is an essential aspect, actually.

After I made my post public, it (of course after the fact!) occurred to me that, instead of my smashed together "prose" in the introduction, I could have simply said how often these articles can be both informative but also unreliable narrators. And then I could have built into that.

Example: What was said about the new Hunter Arc Super. "The Hunter leaps into the air, hurling their staff into the ground". That wording implies no control over aiming the super, and that it would be animation locked to do one thing. Essentially "plant the flag", hence my response in reading this. Then... what we got was, exactly what I said it should be. Even had the "staff spinning" animation from the provided .gif.

If only they had used the word "aiming" or something of its verbiage ilk. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

AS for the darkness of Cyberpunk, yeah. There can be. But this game is a very tame T for Teen. I'm not sure about how ACTUALLY dark they could go, but I guess we'll see what they do with this constraint. ;D

You're totally right about Bungie creating great content with great potential and then underutilizing it or letting it die on the vine. (Miss you Titan and Venus.)

Or at least it certainly does seem that way. Bungie has always been really good about reusing assets. We've seen some of that this season with the Mars Lost Sector being repurposed into one of the seasonal activities. And I'm certainly not against new stuff, obviously. That would be silly.

Instead, I just wish they went about presenting differently. About the new stuff, and the old stuff. New stuff this close to what should be, "as advertised" or "projected as" the closing of a story arc, just seems highly unnecessary.

Unlike Game of Thrones and Star Wars, I don't think they've screwed the pooch yet (though they have gotten dangerously close to the pooch with the, um, screwing device).

They already have, multiple times in these last 8 years. The difference here is, the creation treadmill doesn't stop. If they screw up too much, in most cases, it can get patched. Just... make the ending of this saga good, right? THEN we'll see.

We are talking about story, right? Not imbalances, experiments gone wrong, etc. The low point for me was when Destiny released, and gap between what we got and my expectations.

Hoping the grand vision yields treasure at the end of this rainbow. Sorry for the rainbow mention; I realize the colors are part of the problem and, in your thesis, presents evidence that their eyes are off the prize. I'll get back that.

Na, colors are fine. The stuff on Titan are anything but Drab! ;D

Of course you couldn't see my tongue inserted in cheek. I never interpreted you being against color itself. I was only foreshadowing my final paragraph.

It's more about what the environment has to tell. What is the story? With everything all shiny and new, the story that needs to be told is different. As I say above, the presentation of what can be told is different. One of destruction in action, instead of destruction in retrospect, and the lessons from that retrospect. And to, what I'm pointing out, is my own disappointment in that difference. I'm sure, based on the momentum they've had, that the story will be... fantastic. And at some point, we will go back to titan. But it will be with seasonal momentum, not expansion momentum. And I, in what was shown to me, am thus far saddened by that.

See also, all my raving about Europa? Part of it is scope of the space. All that expansion momentum, with new tricks added to a new space. ...so whatever. We'll see.

Also miss Europa, even though it's still here. The initial exploration of that space was amazing.

Another way of putting it: you're 100% correct about great art coming out of constraints, but it is more than that. It's also about finding gold where you didn't expect it, discovering there's more there there than you ever planned for, as you move organically through the creation process.

Indeed.

Back to colors, I was also put off by the Lightyear--I mean, Lightfall's pallet and tonal shift. As cheapLEY suggested, it may not have the significance we give it. Cyberpunk worlds, despite all the neon, are usually pretty fricking dark. That contrast is an essential aspect, actually.

After I made my post public, it (of course after the fact!) occurred to me that, instead of my smashed together "prose" in the introduction, I could have simply said how often these articles can be both informative but also unreliable narrators. And then I could have built into that.

Example: What was said about the new Hunter Arc Super. "The Hunter leaps into the air, hurling their staff into the ground". That wording implies no control over aiming the super, and that it would be animation locked to do one thing. Essentially "plant the flag", hence my response in reading this. Then... what we got was, exactly what I said it should be. Even had the "staff spinning" animation from the provided .gif.

If only they had used the word "aiming" or something of its verbiage ilk. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

AS for the darkness of Cyberpunk, yeah. There can be. But this game is a very tame T for Teen. I'm not sure about how ACTUALLY dark they could go, but I guess we'll see what they do with this constraint. ;D

Superficially, tame, yes. Let me be clear, I watched only part of the reveal out of the corner of my eye. It's not like I'm not going to buy the darn thing--how much do I want to know? Based on that limited exposure, I suspect the disconnect for both of us is that it felt more like I was watching a promo for a brand new game rather the continuation of an epic saga. Is that accurate?

The game has disappointed me less and less as time goes on. Are my standards lowering? Perhaps. At this point I'm thinking of it like I think of The Wire. It's flawed for sure. In terms of ambition, few come close.

I remain ever hopeful.

Kerm

Unlike Game of Thrones and Star Wars, I don't think they've screwed the pooch yet (though they have gotten dangerously close to the pooch with the, um, screwing device).

They already have, multiple times in these last 8 years. The difference here is, the creation treadmill doesn't stop. If they screw up too much, in most cases, it can get patched. Just... make the ending of this saga good, right? THEN we'll see.

We are talking about story, right? Not imbalances, experiments gone wrong, etc. The low point for me was when Destiny released, and gap between what we got and my expectations.

Indeed. From "That Wizard Came From the Moon" to Curse of Osiris, and maybe little after that, the in-game story work was filled with high and low and really low points.

Hoping the grand vision yields treasure at the end of this rainbow. Sorry for the rainbow mention; I realize the colors are part of the problem and, in your thesis, presents evidence that their eyes are off the prize. I'll get back that.

Na, colors are fine. The stuff on Titan are anything but Drab! ;D

Of course you couldn't see my tongue inserted in cheek. I never interpreted you being against color itself. I was only foreshadowing my final paragraph.

That's what this ":P" is for. See! It's sticking its tongue out, because the text is written with a sense of playfulness and lightheartedness, or simply because poster is being a silly goose. Which is exactly why you see me using it all the time.

On that note. *HONK!* :P

After I made my post public, it (of course after the fact!) occurred to me that, instead of my smashed together "prose" in the introduction, I could have simply said how often these articles can be both informative but also unreliable narrators. And then I could have built into that.

Example: What was said about the new Hunter Arc Super. "The Hunter leaps into the air, hurling their staff into the ground". That wording implies no control over aiming the super, and that it would be animation locked to do one thing. Essentially "plant the flag", hence my response in reading this. Then... what we got was, exactly what I said it should be. Even had the "staff spinning" animation from the provided .gif.

If only they had used the word "aiming" or something of its verbiage ilk. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

AS for the darkness of Cyberpunk, yeah. There can be. But this game is a very tame T for Teen. I'm not sure about how ACTUALLY dark they could go, but I guess we'll see what they do with this constraint. ;D

Superficially, tame, yes. Let me be clear, I watched only part of the reveal out of the corner of my eye. It's not like I'm not going to buy the darn thing--how much do I want to know? Based on that limited exposure, I suspect the disconnect for both of us is that it felt more like I was watching a promo for a brand new game rather the continuation of an epic saga. Is that accurate?

Disconnect. Yes, very much so. Accurate.

The game has disappointed me less and less as time goes on. Are my standards lowering? Perhaps. At this point I'm thinking of it like I think of The Wire. It's flawed for sure. In terms of ambition, few come close.

I remain ever hopeful.

Kerm

Bungie has improved their work on Destiny. It's taken FAR longer then would ever be hoped, but definitely has improved. We hope best for that momentum.

I got a new job just over a month ago. At my old job, I had more time and flexibility to check this sort of stuff out. Ever since you posted this, I've been pecking away at the articles and the posts in this thread. It's taken a while. This also means my retention of everything isn't great....but this is my lasting takeaway.

It seems like Destiny has had an identity crisis from day one. Just endless flip-flops.

Is it a shooter?
Yes.
Is it an MMORPG?
No.
Are you sure it's not an MMORPG?
Yes we promise.
...really?
Ok it's an MMORPG.
Is it a AAA release one time purchase?
Yes.
Is it a free to play game?
Yes.
It's both?
Yes
...but are there seasonal passes? and expansions?
Yes...it's all those things.
Ok but can I play the new seasons for free?
No.
So what part is free?
You can run around the planets.
And do what?
Nothing, unless you pay for stuff.

And so on.
--------------------
This seems to continue into the game itself. Is it a game for casuals? Is it a game for hardcores?

They spend so much time making raids and social events. But then near the launch of Destiny 2, one of the reveal videos gave a stat saying that an EXTREMELY low percentage of Destiny players had completed a raid. So maybe the player base is more casual? Then they call in streamers to help mold the game. I would say that streamers are typically in the "hardcore" realm, so they are making the game for the hardcore player base?

In the recent reveal they are talking about a matching system where you can give players awards to help them match up with other players for events. Ok, so the game is still full of casual players who are just faffing about? So the player base of full of faffy casuals, and the game is full of hardcore group activities? What is being made here?

---------------------

I'm still bitter about the constant fashion shows, and customization talks when my Hunter STILL looks like a doofus. They have improved a lot of things in this regard since launch...but let's face it. Player customization (in all games) is no longer a fun things on the side, it's what makes the micro-money.

---------------------

There is an awesome story to be told here! How should we tell it? Ooh, let's make these "lore cards" with cool images and story tidbits that players can collect and read and absorb all this good story. Hey that's a good idea. Oh, but let's put them on our website...not in the game. Hm...well, ok.
(fast forward)
Ok, we admit...the lore cards on website was silly. We put it all in the game now.

---------------------

Check this out ya'll, weapon and armor collections. Now when you get gear, you can see everything you collected, and pick it back up.
Edit: You can't pick anything back up.
Edit: You can pick some things up.
Edit: No, you can't pick anything back up.
Nevermind all that, we are getting rid of a bunch of stuff.
Well, not getting rid of it, it's just going away for a while.
Ok, that stuff is coming back.
We are getting rid of getting rid of stuff.
Edit: You can't pick anything back up.

---------------------

Check out this sweet trailer for Witch Queen. It's got guardians patrolling a rain forrest area, except it's on old city. It's like a cool new area we've never seen before!

Witch Queen releases: [FILE NOT FOUND]
Is her throne world area supposed to be this? Because I definitely didn't connect those dots.

---------------------

I think I've been nibbling your INSANEbits too long because I'm losing track of my own post and thought process. I guess what I'm on about is, I don't ever, EVER remember watching a trailer or reading an article of (Destiny era) Bungie telling me something and it fully being followed through in-game.

The game is huge! It's huge!!!!! Think about how huge this game is!!! And it works and it's fun to play! And no matter what they do, we are going to complain about it.

"What's up with the cyberpunk theme? pft"
or
"It the same hive enemies just with an icy skin"
"It's the same fallen enemies, just with peg legs"

Btw, the wool isn't over my eyes, I recognize the new missions this season as old recycled lost sectors, just with different skins! Shame on you Bungie!! How about you give us something new!!

"What's up with the cyberpunk theme? pft"

Know what's fun? Booting up Destiny and shooting aliens in the face.

So what part is free?
You can run around the planets.
And do what?
Nothing, unless you pay for stuff.

There's actually more content in the free version of Destiny 2 than there was in the original launch Destiny (and probably still more even if you include The Dark Below).

Unlike Game of Thrones and Star Wars, I don't think they've screwed the pooch yet (though they have gotten dangerously close to the pooch with the, um, screwing device).

They already have, multiple times in these last 8 years. The difference here is, the creation treadmill doesn't stop. If they screw up too much, in most cases, it can get patched. Just... make the ending of this saga good, right? THEN we'll see.

We are talking about story, right? Not imbalances, experiments gone wrong, etc. The low point for me was when Destiny released, and gap between what we got and my expectations.

Indeed. From "That Wizard Came From the Moon" to Curse of Osiris, and maybe little after that, the in-game story work was filled with high and low and really low points.

When you mentioned patching it, I thought you were talking about gameplay missteps that qualify as "screwing the pooch." Except for the initial disappointment, I don't see the Destiny story as being where they've "screwed the pooch." On that we might disagree.

Unlike Game of Thrones and Star Wars, I don't think they've screwed the pooch yet (though they have gotten dangerously close to the pooch with the, um, screwing device).

They already have, multiple times in these last 8 years. The difference here is, the creation treadmill doesn't stop. If they screw up too much, in most cases, it can get patched. Just... make the ending of this saga good, right? THEN we'll see.

We are talking about story, right? Not imbalances, experiments gone wrong, etc. The low point for me was when Destiny released, and gap between what we got and my expectations.

Indeed. From "That Wizard Came From the Moon" to Curse of Osiris, and maybe little after that, the in-game story work was filled with high and low and really low points.

When you mentioned patching it, I thought you were talking about gameplay missteps that qualify as "screwing the pooch." Except for the initial disappointment, I don't see the Destiny story as being where they've "screwed the pooch." On that we might disagree.

Seems like there has been a "phone tag" sort of mismatch. "Get Patched" does seem a touch on the short term, doesn't it?

In the broadest sense, all I'm talking about is consistency, hence in part my referencing in the main rant to the "end caps" (S8/Sequel) in both Game of Thrones & Star Wars, which both had terrible bouts of consistency. Perhaps even nonexistent. A hopefully not TOO relevant comparison, as we come into what is(?) the end cap for this generation of Destiny Story.

Screwed the pooch yet? They did in their early years. But unlike Movies, this is a "live game". "The creation treadmill doesn't stop". (Hence how in these last few years they have become/hired folks who are better and better at creating a story for their needs.)

And so, for our little conversation here, while the answer I have to give could be actually "both", for this instance here, the concern is Story. I hope that helps. Maybe.

I think I've been nibbling your INSANEbits too long because I'm losing track of my own post and thought process. I guess what I'm on about is, I don't ever, EVER remember watching a trailer or reading an article of (Destiny era) Bungie telling me something and it fully being followed through

...

Know what's fun? Booting up Destiny and shooting aliens in the face.

Please do not drown yourself with my deluge of thoughts, nor my oft aim to discuss craft or the future of this collective pasttime. If ultimately all you care for is "Booting up Destiny" and being presented cool ways to "shooting aliens in the face", then my posts where I go into these geeky weeds might not be something you should read, though I thank you all the same for giving them a try.

It's all quite a lot already, but then I get involved and AH! Oy vey!

I think I've been nibbling your INSANEbits too long because I'm losing track of my own post and thought process. I guess what I'm on about is, I don't ever, EVER remember watching a trailer or reading an article of (Destiny era) Bungie telling me something and it fully being followed through

...

Know what's fun? Booting up Destiny and shooting aliens in the face.

Please do not drown yourself with my deluge of thoughts, nor my oft aim to discuss craft or the future of this collective pasttime. If ultimately all you care for is "Booting up Destiny" and being presented cool ways to "shooting aliens in the face", then my posts where I go into these geeky weeds might not be something you should read, though I thank you all the same for giving them a try.

It's all quite a lot already, but then I get involved and AH! Oy vey!

I like your tales. They are entertaining. Reading this forum is the only way I have any idea what is happening.

Unlike Game of Thrones and Star Wars, I don't think they've screwed the pooch yet (though they have gotten dangerously close to the pooch with the, um, screwing device).

They already have, multiple times in these last 8 years. The difference here is, the creation treadmill doesn't stop. If they screw up too much, in most cases, it can get patched. Just... make the ending of this saga good, right? THEN we'll see.

We are talking about story, right? Not imbalances, experiments gone wrong, etc. The low point for me was when Destiny released, and gap between what we got and my expectations.

Indeed. From "That Wizard Came From the Moon" to Curse of Osiris, and maybe little after that, the in-game story work was filled with high and low and really low points.

When you mentioned patching it, I thought you were talking about gameplay missteps that qualify as "screwing the pooch." Except for the initial disappointment, I don't see the Destiny story as being where they've "screwed the pooch." On that we might disagree.

Seems like there has been a "phone tag" sort of mismatch. "Get Patched" does seem a touch on the short term, doesn't it?

In the broadest sense, all I'm talking about is consistency, hence in part my referencing in the main rant to the "end caps" (S8/Sequel) in both Game of Thrones & Star Wars, which both had terrible bouts of consistency. Perhaps even nonexistent. A hopefully not TOO relevant comparison, as we come into what is(?) the end cap for this generation of Destiny Story.

Screwed the pooch yet? They did in their early years. But unlike Movies, this is a "live game". "The creation treadmill doesn't stop". (Hence how in these last few years they have become/hired folks who are better and better at creating a story for their needs.)

And so, for our little conversation here, while the answer I have to give could be actually "both", for this instance here, the concern is Story. I hope that helps. Maybe.

Yeah, and then there's the issue of execution. I think the Grimoire have been consistently good, starting at the beginning with Seth. Does that count as story? Xenos told me that every time he unlocked a Grimoire card, he stopped the game and read it. In his case, I think the answer would be yes.

Unlike Game of Thrones and Star Wars, I don't think they've screwed the pooch yet (though they have gotten dangerously close to the pooch with the, um, screwing device).

They already have, multiple times in these last 8 years. The difference here is, the creation treadmill doesn't stop. If they screw up too much, in most cases, it can get patched. Just... make the ending of this saga good, right? THEN we'll see.

We are talking about story, right? Not imbalances, experiments gone wrong, etc. The low point for me was when Destiny released, and gap between what we got and my expectations.

Indeed. From "That Wizard Came From the Moon" to Curse of Osiris, and maybe little after that, the in-game story work was filled with high and low and really low points.

When you mentioned patching it, I thought you were talking about gameplay missteps that qualify as "screwing the pooch." Except for the initial disappointment, I don't see the Destiny story as being where they've "screwed the pooch." On that we might disagree.

Seems like there has been a "phone tag" sort of mismatch. "Get Patched" does seem a touch on the short term, doesn't it?

In the broadest sense, all I'm talking about is consistency, hence in part my referencing in the main rant to the "end caps" (S8/Sequel) in both Game of Thrones & Star Wars, which both had terrible bouts of consistency. Perhaps even nonexistent. A hopefully not TOO relevant comparison, as we come into what is(?) the end cap for this generation of Destiny Story.

Screwed the pooch yet? They did in their early years. But unlike Movies, this is a "live game". "The creation treadmill doesn't stop". (Hence how in these last few years they have become/hired folks who are better and better at creating a story for their needs.)

And so, for our little conversation here, while the answer I have to give could be actually "both", for this instance here, the concern is Story. I hope that helps. Maybe.

Yeah, and then there's the issue of execution. I think the Grimoire have been consistently good, starting at the beginning with Seth. Does that count as story? Xenos told me that every time he unlocked a Grimoire card, he stopped the game and read it. In his case, I think the answer would be yes.

I think that beyond the original scope of what I have to say.