Well, this is obviously a mistake (Destiny)

by Claude Errera , Sunday, May 24, 2020, 13:42 (1648 days ago) @ Vortech

I think I know what Insane is trying to say, here. Let me take a shot: People are posting it like it's a trump card. They are being a "rules lawyer" to steal a phrase from another part of gaming. So, if they are posting that with the implication that they "won" under the rules of Argue with Bungie: the Game, Insane is saying their trump card is invalid because bungie didn't technically say that about D2 so that card is from a different set and not valid for play. Also possibly, we have the "I voted for it before I voted against it" problem where people are holding that up as a flip-flopping problem or as hypocrisy, when you could instead look at it as being reasonable and changing your opinion as you gain more knowledge and experience given that the statements are separated by a fair amount of time for things to have changed.

These are not my words, so maybe I'm reading Insane wrong and I'll be arguing against the wind, but That said, if I am reading it right: you trying to shut down people being a rules lawyer by finding a way to exclude them through strict and unshared interpretation of the rules (which do not have universal agreement anyway) is really just more of the problem.

And, if the problem is people trying to do some low-effort argument by copying in some old statements rather than taking the time to make their own argument in a way that people can understand what is at issue…well, I have to say that very few people seemed to understand what your argument was and in the past you have said that's essentially "Just how it comes out of you naturally" (somehow implying that means nothing can be done to improve clarity, I guess?). Seems to me like you should either put in more effort to be understood, or put in no effort and give up the enterprise all together. right now you seem to have found the nadir of value along the effort scale where what effort you do put in is largely wasted in confusion.

It's unclear to me whether the 'you' spread throughout that last paragraph is me (the person you're replying to) or Insane (the person whose argument you're trying to clarify)... but either way, I guess I understand the gist of what you're getting at.

The whole flip-flop thing isn't really a problem for me, in general; things happen that change the way other things work. However, the problem I have with this particular case is specific: they weren't apologizing for sunsetting weapons in D1, they were apologizing for doing so in a way that made us think our time was not being respected. Maybe that's a subtle difference - but to me it's a critical one.

Needing to sunset weapons for a practical reason ("we simply don't have the manpower to keep track of the interactions between 800 weapons and all of their various perks", maybe) is just a Thing That Is. If it has to happen, it has to happen.

Given, however, that they did this wrong once, and ACKNOWLEDGED that they did it wrong... maybe the most important part of the job of the community team is to communicate with the fanbase in a way that makes it clear that this is NOT happening because they don't care about us, it's happening BECAUSE they care about us. And this wasn't done. (Or at least it wasn't done in a way that lets even someone like me, who's more than happy to give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time, see that that's what they meant.)

It is happening. That much is clear. Why it has to happen the WAY it's happening, and why we're not getting a more honest "we're doing everything we can to mitigate the pain, like X, Y, and Z"... that's the part I can't explain. And the reason it matters is that statement they made 5 years ago.

I guess that's where I'm coming from.