All done with my Suros Regime. Maybe ARs aren't as useless as we sometimes think? ;)

I'm actually most impressed that you won on Firebase Delphi spawning Bravo.

I'm actually most impressed that you won on Firebase Delphi spawning Bravo.

Thanks ;p

But it also proves that a decent player using an AR can go toe-to-toe against other decent players who are using Hand Cannons ;)

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I'm actually most impressed that you won on Firebase Delphi spawning Bravo.

Thanks ;p

But it also proves that a decent player using an AR can go toe-to-toe against other decent players who are using Hand Cannons ;)

It's actually refreshing to see someone doing well with them. Most everyone on 360 abandoned them post nerf; and it sounds like they fit your playstyle, so it's good to see you didn't give up on them, and were rewarded for it.

I still want post-patch stats though! Deej, tell the Dev team to give us a stats hub for the game population!

...is that Cody was wrong.

"There is zero reason to use Auto Rifles ever anymore, either in PvP or PvE." - Cody Miller, 2015.

;-P

...is that Cody was wrong.

"There is zero reason to use Auto Rifles ever anymore, either in PvP or PvE." - Cody Miller, 2015.

;-P

Yep! lol

To be fair, I feel like I could be doing even better if I was half-decent at using Hand Cannons in PvP... but that's kind of my point. In my hands, and AR is more powerful than a Hand Cannon. I would never argue that ARs are as good as hand cannons, but I am more effective with them. Which is what I was getting at with my earlier post about how the "feel" of a weapon in your hands is just as important as any measurable stat.

All done with my Suros Regime. Maybe ARs aren't as useless as we sometimes think? ;)

Done with the best AR in the game :-p

All done with my Suros Regime. Maybe ARs aren't as useless as we sometimes think? ;)

Done with the best AR in the game :-p

Against the best Hand Cannons in the game ;)

That's a great string of games!

The 2.5% nerf to auto rifles is pretty small. I think it boiled down to kills needing 1 extra bullet if none of the shots are criticals? The larger change in the patch was really pulse rifle damage increasing so dramatically. And I gotta say, as a former AR guy myself... Red Death. Oh My God.

Mine isn't even upgraded and the thought of those later perks makes me drool a little.

Have you tried it yet? Come on man, everyone's doing it...

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That's a great string of games!

The 2.5% nerf to auto rifles is pretty small. I think it boiled down to kills needing 1 extra bullet if none of the shots are criticals? The larger change in the patch was really pulse rifle damage increasing so dramatically. And I gotta say, as a former AR guy myself... Red Death. Oh My God.

Mine isn't even upgraded and the thought of those later perks makes me drool a little.

Have you tried it yet? Come on man, everyone's doing it...

I have tried it. It's great, for sure, but I still find Suros more effective (for me).

The thing that pisses me off about Red Death (as a Thorn user) is landing my three shots, dying to their two burst, and then seeing my damage-over-time immediately stop and their health regen start (when they were already down to their last 5 hp and my thorn woulda kept poisoning them).

The thing that pisses me off about Red Death (as a Thorn user) is landing my three shots, dying to their two burst, and then seeing my damage-over-time immediately stop and their health regen start (when they were already down to their last 5 hp and my thorn woulda kept poisoning them).

That actually sounds like a nice counter to the Thorn, which is a common sight in crucible.

Sometimes the Healing effect is immediately stopped by Thorn. Sometimes it isn't. I could have sworn I saw an instance last night where my opponent's shield was recharging while those damage ticks were still showing up.

All done with my Suros Regime. Maybe ARs aren't as useless as we sometimes think? ;)

Done with the best AR in the game :-p

Against the best Hand Cannons in the game ;)

Okay you got me.

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The thing that pisses me off about Red Death (as a Thorn user) is landing my three shots, dying to their two burst, and then seeing my damage-over-time immediately stop and their health regen start (when they were already down to their last 5 hp and my thorn woulda kept poisoning them).

It doesn't stop so much as it is overwhelmed. Often I'll get the kill with Red Death, get its burst of health, and then have Thorn's poison break my shield a second time.

The thing that pisses me off about Red Death (as a Thorn user) is landing my three shots, dying to their two burst, and then seeing my damage-over-time immediately stop and their health regen start (when they were already down to their last 5 hp and my thorn woulda kept poisoning them).

That actually sounds like a nice counter to the Thorn, which is a common sight in crucible.

Yeah, I'm not saying it isn't totally fair (and probably needed) -- just that as a Thorn user it get my blood boiling. ;-)

I've been meaning to test this for a while, but keep forgetting.

Does the bottom half of the mag heal you only on kills, or just while dealing damage? The description says the latter, but perk descriptions have proven to be kind of unreliable.

And does the healing effect help fight Thorn poison?

I was almost alway a suros, sniper, machine gun guy. So far on this Iron Banner (first time back in crucible since the autorifle nerf) I just find myself running sniper, machine gun only for the most part. So far I've used Red Death, Thorn, The Last Word, Bad Juju, MIDA, Vex and No Land Beyond as my primaries. I just can't get used to the newer weapons.

Here's my take:
-Red Death: good weapon but fires too slow still
-Thorn: I still enjoy this weapon a lot but with Red Death in play now it seems less effective.
-The Last Word: Fun on short maps but not good for the distances I like to play at.
-Bad Juju: Doesn't hit hard enough
-MIDA: I love the speed boost but it doesn't hit hard enough either. Still fun to use
-Vex: Since it doesn't count towards the headshot primary bounty I haven't been using it as much.
-No Land Beyond: Fun to troll with if you get the kill, otherwise I just die a lot.

Maybe I just need to go back to Suros? Don't get me wrong... I'm still going to run a sniper nearly all the time, but for cleaning up kills Suros was always my favorite weapon to use.

I've been meaning to test this for a while, but keep forgetting.

Does the bottom half of the mag heal you only on kills, or just while dealing damage? The description says the latter, but perk descriptions have proven to be kind of unreliable.

And does the healing effect help fight Thorn poison?

It appears to only happen after kills, and then only occasionally. It's barely a factor when I use the gun. Doesn't seem fast or reliable enough to counter Thorn.

Suros will still be effective. Just watch out for those Pulse Rifles.

Also if you're sniping, give Last Word a closer look. It's my favorite gun to pair with a Sniper.

The rate of fire is too fast for me to be accurate enough.

They're fine. Over the past few days I've spent a majority of my time with the Suros Regime and my Up For Anything. They don't quite have the range of Pulse Rifles and certainly not Scout Rifles but I can also just hold down the trigger and mop up two or three people before needing to reload. And yes, I faced down and won against my fair share of Thorns and The Last Words...

The Crucible is about more than straight 100% critical hit rate no misses time to kill. Big surprise, I know! :p

The rate of fire is too fast for me to be accurate enough.

Yeah, for mopping up sniper fodder at range, she probably won't cut it. ADS at closer ranges is pretty sweet though, especially with perfect balance.

Fun fact: when I first used TLW, I didn't know it was full auto, and tried to just pull the trigger as fast as I could. Not smart.

If you're using your primary primarily to mop up sniper fodder, try Vision of Confluence! That thing is great for that. It's great with a shotgun too.

Nah. Thats the beauty of it. The rate of fire can be too fast for a given situation... but it doesn't have to be. The Last Word puts you in complete control! Need range to hit that mid-distance target? Fire slowly with almost perfect accuracy. Need to kill Beorn when he jumps in your face completely surprising you? Fan fire from the hip to put four shots in his gut before he can punch you twice and win the Bungie Bounty!

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-Thorn: I still enjoy this weapon a lot but with Red Death in play now it seems less effective.

That's because Red Death is one of only two soft counters to Thorn's damage over time that I know about. Red Death's healing will keep damage over time from killing you if you kill them. The other is Apotheosis Veil, where activating your super immediately regenerates your health.

Quite frankly, Red Death is the better option there :-)

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I tried Fang of Ir Yut last night for a bit and wasn't too impressed. Maybe I need to give Vision another look.

Also, I need to start using the last word more so I can get adjusted to it better. I forget it's full auto :)

Fun fact: when I first used TLW, I didn't know it was full auto, and tried to just pull the trigger as fast as I could. Not smart.

Wait... It does? MIND -> BLOWN

I've had it heal me on dealing damage in hardmode Crota fights. I take pop shots at the boomers if I need a heal. I'm not certain, but I think I've only gotten heals from the bottom half of the mag?

It fires so quickly that you must have at least "double tapped" by accident a few times.

Anyway, once you fully upgrade it, you should never ADS. The hipfire is MUCH more accurate and also deals more damage and also has faster target acquisition and also is more magnetic to the head. I mean... this gun. It's GOOD.

Don't feel too bad. I woke up early to play with my new EV-30 Tumbler and didn't realize until that night, after someone posted it, that it could also do barrel rolls.

Fun fact: when I first used TLW, I didn't know it was full auto, and tried to just pull the trigger as fast as I could. Not smart.

Wait... It does? MIND -> BLOWN

Why do you think we keep comparing it to this bad boy?

Sure, but the couple of times I've done that and gotten the 2 burst kill with Red Death... It just feels so good.

BTW: The hunter's Gunslinger's Trance reduces the recoil on Red Death to effectively zero, making it a headshot laser.

It fires so quickly that you must have at least "double tapped" by accident a few times.

Anyway, once you fully upgrade it, you should never ADS. The hipfire is MUCH more accurate and also deals more damage and also has faster target acquisition and also is more magnetic to the head. I mean... this gun. It's GOOD.

When you could counter-snipe with it, it was game-breaking; now, it's less useful. I also dislike the magnetism in general. I feel I hit more headshots ADS'ing.

Interesting, because I purposely fought the Spider Tank near the Devil's Lair in patrol mode and never once got healing from shooting it. As far as I could tell it only heals on (some) kills and probably only in the bottom half of the mag...

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It usually takes me a few mags, but never more than 3 (I dump half the ammo at the floor, then aim and plink til I heal).

I was counter-sniped by TLW last night at least 3 times. All by the same guy, and all from absurd range. 3 or 4 hits each time, and I was dead before I could let loose my second shot. It was nutty.

;p

Suros Regime is unlike the vast majority of Auto Rifles in the game. It is basically an automatic scout rifle. It's apples and oranges compared to anything like the average AR in the game, like Do Gooder, or Up For Anything.

I'm glad it's still working for you, but for those of us who don't have an exotic level auto-rifle, our legendaries aren't so legendary anymore.

Suros Regime is unlike the vast majority of Auto Rifles in the game. It is basically an automatic scout rifle. It's apples and oranges compared to anything like the average AR in the game, like Do Gooder, or Up For Anything.

I'm glad it's still working for you, but for those of us who don't have an exotic level auto-rifle, our legendaries aren't so legendary anymore.

Sure, but the exotic hand cannons are a step above the legendaries as well. Great as they are, Timur's Lash or Devil You Know just can't compete with Thorn, Last Word, or Hawkmoon.

But to your point, Suros' stats allow it to be used in a different way than most other ARs in the game. It really is it's own little weapon class.

Yeah, the perk on the Suros Regime specifically says, "The bottom half of each magazine deals bonus damage and has a chance to return health when dealing damage." Seems pretty straightforward.

Suros Regime is unlike the vast majority of Auto Rifles in the game. It is basically an automatic scout rifle. It's apples and oranges compared to anything like the average AR in the game, like Do Gooder, or Up For Anything.

I'm glad it's still working for you, but for those of us who don't have an exotic level auto-rifle, our legendaries aren't so legendary anymore.

Sure, but the exotic hand cannons are a step above the legendaries as well. Great as they are, Timur's Lash or Devil You Know just can't compete with Thorn, Last Word, or Hawkmoon.

But to your point, Suros' stats allow it to be used in a different way than most other ARs in the game. It really is it's own little weapon class.

They're the real problem.

Then we'll nerf those OP pulse rifles! Waitaminute...

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I spent some time a couple weeks ago upgrading my Praedyth's Timepiece in PvE... My first thought was "I bet this thing is great in the Crucible now". It has a very high rate of fire and insanely good stability. Seems like a winning combo now that Pulse Rifles do decent damage.

Anyone tried it out?

Fun fact: when I first used TLW, I didn't know it was full auto, and tried to just pull the trigger as fast as I could. Not smart.

Wait... It does? MIND -> BLOWN

That's the point of fan firing. With a single action revolver you can hold down the trigger and slap the hammer to continuously fire it. It's not good for the revolver in real life, but it got popular in trick shooting and movies. Of course, The Last Word is wrong in this aspect.

This is what I do whenever I encounter a group of dregs while on patrol:

This is what I do whenever I encounter a group of dregs while on patrol:

...that's Clint Eastwood. ;)

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ONCE.

(Video because you probably wouldn't get that joke, either. Johnny Dangerously. Good bad movie.)

It's a reasonably quick kill. Worth using if you don't have TLW.

It's the only way to score a kill.