Why only one exotic? (Destiny)
by Cody Miller 
, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, February 20, 2015, 00:09 (3818 days ago)
"Exotics are supposed to feel overpowered, but not actually be overpowered". - Bungie
A thread down below asking for all exotic fantasy loadouts got me thinking - based on Bungie's above design philosophy for exotics, why are they limited to one at a time? If they are not in fact overpowered, what's the reason for not allowing more than one to be equipped?
The limit actually ends up being problematic for the design of future exotics (as evidenced by the fact all the DLC exotic weapons suck) because of one thing: opportunity cost. The moment you equip any exotic, there's a downside - you can't equip Gjallarhorn. That sounds like a joke, but it's very real. "Is this exotic worth using my exotic slot for?"
Many exotic weapons are good weapons on their own, but bad when viewed in terms of the opportunity cost of equipping them. For casual activities, your guns don't matter much, but for Raids, Nightfalls, and Crucible, it matters a ton.
The opportunity cost of exotics I feel is worst in PvE, since Gjallarhorn, Mythoclast, and Icebreaker are dominant in so many activities. While I'd love to use MIDA as my primary for a great deal of the Crota raid, it's not worth giving up that slot for. PvP I think has much more flexibility in that regard due to the lower health of Guardians, making damage output matter considerably less than the gun's perks and feel.
So I wonder, why the limit to one?
What if we could equip as many as we want? What if 'exotic' didn't necessarily mean 'really good', but rather 'this gun does something unique or weird'. This would instantly make a lot of exotics usable by eliminating the opportunity cost. I don't even think it would eliminate legendaries, since many would be desirable because of their perks. Fatebringer, a firefly scout rifle, guns like Black Hammer and raid primaries with elemental damage, etc.
Design Destiny 2 with a wider variety of situations and challenges, such that all the different guns have a place, and I think the system would end up better than it is now.
Because they're exotic...
by Korny , Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, February 20, 2015, 00:51 (3818 days ago) @ Cody Miller
They have quirks that affect your player in ways that other weapons don't, and provide advantages in certain scenarios that no "normal" weapon can.
If you could equip multiple, here's how it would look:
Hawkmoon
Ice Breaker
Gjallarhorn.
All day every day. Every non-exotic (save for Raid weapons) is now obsolete. Useless. There goes the sandbox.
NOBODY would use anything other than a full Exotic loadout.
Picking and choosing influences variety. Trade-offs are king.
Because they're exotic...
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, February 20, 2015, 01:00 (3818 days ago) @ Korny
edited by Cody Miller, Friday, February 20, 2015, 01:05
They have quirks that affect your player in ways that other weapons don't, and provide advantages in certain scenarios that no "normal" weapon can.
If you could equip multiple, here's how it would look:
Hawkmoon
Ice Breaker
Gjallarhorn.All day every day. Every non-exotic (save for Raid weapons) is now obsolete. Useless. There goes the sandbox.
NOBODY would use anything other than a full Exotic loadout.
Picking and choosing influences variety. Trade-offs are king.
Why would I use hawkmoon in the Crota raid? Or the nightfall? Or icebreaker for that matter? You'd use fatebringer. Or Vex. Or a scout rifle with firefly. Or Black Hammer / LDR. Which are legendary.
Also notice, that I said that Destiny 2 would have to be designed just like Bungie described exotics for it to work: not actually being any better than legendaries. Just different.
There aren't any meaningful trade offs now is what I'm saying. Look at all the exotics that get unused by the majority of players simply because the tradeoff of not having Gjallarhorn is so high compared to their actual utility. Crucible is much more interesting in terms of which exotics are viable precisely because none completely dominate the way a select few do in PvE.
Because they're exotic...
by Korny , Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, February 20, 2015, 01:21 (3818 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Why would I use hawkmoon in the Crota raid? Or the nightfall? Or icebreaker for that matter? You'd use fatebringer. Or Vex. Or a scout rifle with firefly. Or Black Hammer / LDR. Which are legendary.
Why would you ever touch anything other than Gjallarhorn or Thunderlord?
And don't say "Well, Truth can be useful", because no. Even in Void Burns, Gjallarhorn is king.
Also, I clearly said that Raid weapons didn't count (reading comprehension).
Also notice, that I said that Destiny 2 would have to be designed just like Bungie described exotics for it to work: not actually being any better than legendaries. Just different.
And that's how they work now, for the most part.
There aren't any meaningful trade offs now is what I'm saying. Look at all the exotics that get unused by the majority of players simply because the tradeoff of not having Gjallarhorn is so high compared to their actual utility. Crucible is much more interesting in terms of which exotics are viable precisely because none completely dominate the way a select few do in PvE.
You just said that there aren't trade-offs, but then just described a number of weapons that you'd use instead of exotics. Okay then...
Also, I see a large variety of Exotics in Crucible, and limiting it to just one adds to the variety of combat encounters.
Because they're exotic...
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, February 20, 2015, 01:37 (3818 days ago) @ Korny
edited by Cody Miller, Friday, February 20, 2015, 01:43
Why would I use hawkmoon in the Crota raid? Or the nightfall? Or icebreaker for that matter? You'd use fatebringer. Or Vex. Or a scout rifle with firefly. Or Black Hammer / LDR. Which are legendary.
Why would you ever touch anything other than Gjallarhorn or Thunderlord?
And don't say "Well, Truth can be useful", because no. Even in Void Burns, Gjallarhorn is king.
Also, I clearly said that Raid weapons didn't count (reading comprehension).
I probably wouldn't use anything but Gjallarhorn in PvE no. But there are instances where I might choose another HMG over Thunderlord. (Also many on that list are NOT raid weapons.)
Also notice, that I said that Destiny 2 would have to be designed just like Bungie described exotics for it to work: not actually being any better than legendaries. Just different.
And that's how they work now, for the most part.
What legendary Rocket Launcher is anywhere NEAR as good as Gjallarhorn? Hunger of Crota apparently doesn't count for you since it's a raid weapon. It also does way less damage. So no. It's just better. Which is the problem, because that affects other exotics through the opportunity cost of equipping them.
As you say, it even does more damage to a Praetorian than truth, despite Truth being the correct element for the shield!
There aren't any meaningful trade offs now is what I'm saying. Look at all the exotics that get unused by the majority of players simply because the tradeoff of not having Gjallarhorn is so high compared to their actual utility. Crucible is much more interesting in terms of which exotics are viable precisely because none completely dominate the way a select few do in PvE.
You just said that there aren't trade-offs, but then just described a number of weapons that you'd use instead of exotics. Okay then...
Also, I see a large variety of Exotics in Crucible, and limiting it to just one adds to the variety of combat encounters.
No, that LIMITS the combinations you can use, lessening variety. A bunch of people use zero exotic weapons in crucible as is, because a good roll on a legendary can be better, particularly with secondary weapons and HMGs. You would get more variety if you could equip any exotic. Perhaps not on the armor side, since legendary armors rarely if ever have cool game changing perks for PvP.
But that's my point. You see a large variety of exotics in use in Crucible, precisely because the trade offs with one over the other is not as bad as in PvE! The tradeoff is not in effectiveness, but in playstyle. You don't suddenly become less effective because you choose Thorn over Last Word. But you have to play differently.
As is, PvE is much more problematic.
Yet again, you completely miss the point...
by Korny , Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, February 20, 2015, 01:44 (3818 days ago) @ Cody Miller
I probably wouldn't use anything but Gjallarhorn in PvE no. But there are instances where I might choose another HMG over Thunderlord. (Also many on that list are NOT raid weapons.)
Literally one vague example of yours was not a raid weapon. And I've never seen you use a scout rifle with Firefly over a raid weapon...
What legendary Rocket Launcher is anywhere NEAR as good as Gjallarhorn? Hunger of Crota apparently doesn't count for you since it's a raid weapon. It also does way less damage. So no. It's just better. Which is the problem, because that affects other exotics through the opportunity cost of equipping them.
It's not about Gjallarhorn. It's about what weapon is worth giving up Gjallarhorn for, and depending on the situation, there are tons. That's why we should only be able to equip one. Because then, you have to decide what you're going to use in your Heavy slot instead of Gjallarhorn, and there are many options that depend on your playstyle and availability.
Same goes for any other weapon. Want to use Gjallarhorn? What should go in the Hawkmoon slot? Etc.
No, that LIMITS the combinations you can use, lessening variety. A bunch of people use zero exotic weapons in crucible as is, because a good roll on a legendary can be better, particularly with secondary weapons and HMGs. You would get more variety if you could equip any exotic. Perhaps not on the armor side, since legendary armors rarely if ever have cool game changing perks for PvP.
So in your brain, a game where everyone can have fully exotic slots, the game would have MORE sandbox variety?
Bizarro World!
Yet again, you completely miss the point...
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Friday, February 20, 2015, 06:48 (3818 days ago) @ Korny
I think the concern Cody is expressing is the same one I've voiced: once you have Icebreaker and Gjallarhorn, all other exotics go out the window. As much as I want a Hawkmoon, I'd still prefer using Fatebringer in most cases because it doesn't take up an exotic slot, so I can still run with Icebreaker or Gjallarhorn. I've got a vault full of exotics (not exaggerating) and most of them are 0% upgraded... Why would I bother? I never use them. Not to mention the fact that by the time I did get them all upgraded, HoW will be out and all my guns will be sub-level again.
That's just you two. Exotics are meant to be juggled!
by Revenant1988 
, How do I forum?, Friday, February 20, 2015, 07:04 (3818 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
I think the concern Cody is expressing is the same one I've voiced: once you have Icebreaker and Gjallarhorn, all other exotics go out the window. As much as I want a Hawkmoon, I'd still prefer using Fatebringer in most cases because it doesn't take up an exotic slot, so I can still run with Icebreaker or Gjallarhorn. I've got a vault full of exotics (not exaggerating) and most of them are 0% upgraded... Why would I bother? I never use them. Not to mention the fact that by the time I did get them all upgraded, HoW will be out and all my guns will be sub-level again.
I have Jellyhorn and Gamebreaker, and I can reliably say that I don't use them as my go-to weapons a majority of the time.
That's not to say I don't have spells where I want to say, dick around with Jellyhorn because Jellyhorn (I do) but reading his posts I get the feeling that maybe you guys play with the:
"Because I feel weapon X is the best weapon to defeat X at the end of the mission, I should have it equipped the whole mission"
Example, Lets say you are running Phogoth strike. You have Ice Breaker, and you know if you land your shots, you can stun lock him for an easier win. What I wonder, is if you and Cody look at that and while you are in orbit go, "Better equip IB now cuz I'll need it at the end"?
If you do\are, well, no wonder you feel as if those are the be-all-end-all weapons, because you are taking one encounter and basing your entire play through around that. Perhaps in your minds it is to be efficient? Save on heavy ammo?
I don't play that way, pretty sure Korny doesn't either.
I tend to run everything (sometimes to a fault) with weapons I like out of preference, regardless if they are the best for the encounter.
Example: I have IB, but I won't switch to it until I absolutely have to, because I'd rather run with a shotgun, even on most boss fights. Same with Jellyhorn- I love it, but not as much as I love using my Swarm, or corrective measure.
I tend to pull them out right before I think I need them, rather than running with them constantly. Essentially, I swap through a lot of guns on the fly, and I don't care about the ammo I lose when I do it.
I use MIDA all the time, which means I can't use other exotics. So when I want to use that IB, I just swap it out real quick to another Scout I like- no fuss.
I wonder if in Cody's case, he's just locking himself into a certain play setup. I don't think the problem is Bungie and the Exotics, I think the problem is a perceived one, that some players have in their head.
Gjallerhorn is GREAT- no one disputes that. But it is hardly the best gun for every encounter. I mean, I can't suicide myself with Corrective Measure!
Ehh.
I chock this up to you guys just being goofy.
That's just you two. Exotics are meant to be juggled!
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Friday, February 20, 2015, 08:30 (3818 days ago) @ Revenant1988
I do swap gear around mid-mission as well... I just swap between icebreaker and Gjallarhorn :)
I should say, if I'm doing a daily mission with friends, or a low-level mission for a bounty, I'll use other guns just to good around and mix things up. But the majority of my time with Destiny is spent playing raids, Nightfalls, and level 30 heroic missions. In those challenging situations, I'm going to use the most effective gear I have. 99% of the time, that's Icebreaker or Gjallarhorn.
Cody and Korny both mentioned Truth earlier in the thread: that weapon is the perfect example of the problem with exotics in PvE. Here's an exotic 331 rocket launcher that's fully maxed out, and yet it does about half the damage to a praetorian that Gjallarhorn does, even though it's got void damage. That's an extreme example, but I feel it holds true across all the exotics: most of them are drastically outclassed by IB and GH.
Now, it's worth mentioning that I do have 3 fatebringers, 2 Fangs of Ir Yut, and a handful of other exceptional legendary primary weapons. If I didn't have so many great non-exotic primaries, I might be motivated to us my Mythoclast or Thorn more often.
That's just you two. Exotics are meant to be juggled!
by Revenant1988 , How do I forum?, Friday, February 20, 2015, 08:52 (3818 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
I do swap gear around mid-mission as well... I just swap between icebreaker and Gjallarhorn :)
I should say, if I'm doing a daily mission with friends, or a low-level mission for a bounty, I'll use other guns just to good around and mix things up. But the majority of my time with Destiny is spent playing raids, Nightfalls, and level 30 heroic missions. In those challenging situations, I'm going to use the most effective gear I have. 99% of the time, that's Icebreaker or Gjallarhorn.
I'm at the point myself where I have all the armor to hit 32, but I don't really see the point. I hop on once or twice a week to do the weekly + nightfall and raid if I'm lucky. Everything else is just too repetitive for me at this point, and I don't do PvP. My vault is pretty empty for weapons. I carry everything I like to use with me, which is a modest collection.
Cody and Korny both mentioned Truth earlier in the thread: that weapon is the perfect example of the problem with exotics in PvE. Here's an exotic 331 rocket launcher that's fully maxed out, and yet it does about half the damage to a praetorian that Gjallarhorn does, even though it's got void damage. That's an extreme example, but I feel it holds true across all the exotics: most of them are drastically outclassed by IB and GH.
The purple damage only applies to the shield- past that damage is damage. I think what you are seeing is the difference in the type of launcher. Ghorn is the only weapon I know of that has wolf pack, so those cluster missiles do a lot of extra damage on TOP of the core rocket. Truth is a one shot, traditional warhead, but the tracking on that one is WAY better than Ghorns. Truth in PvP is a beast. Ghorn in PvP will get the job done, but what a mess! ;) Some of the launchers also have cluster bombs, which I find are on par with Ghorn, depending on the target. Each of those little cluster bombs stacks damage too, like the wolf pack rounds. They just don't home in.
Now, it's worth mentioning that I do have 3 fatebringers, 2 Fangs of Ir Yut, and a handful of other exceptional legendary primary weapons. If I didn't have so many great non-exotic primaries, I might be motivated to us my Mythoclast or Thorn more often.
And that is another difference between you guys- REMEMBER, you are HIGH LEVEL players. You guys raid regularly, and thus have better toys than at least 3/4ths of the population. I by contrast raid infrequently, and have very little raid weapons. Tons of armor though. The only elemental primary I have is Atheon's Epilogue!
Hopefully Bungie will release another update on the "who's using what" popular weapon report again. That was an eye opener. I too, assumed that a lot of people would gravitate towards the same weapons, but the vast majority of players don't have them!
You guys, the high-rollers are -not- a good population sample in terms of finding averages. See, you guys have a 1st world Destiny problem of "How do I hold all these exotics??" when Joe xbox 360 is like "I finally have enough coins to buy an exotic because I can't get them any other way!" hahahaha
That's just you two. Exotics are meant to be juggled!
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Friday, February 20, 2015, 12:34 (3818 days ago) @ Revenant1988
Cody and Korny both mentioned Truth earlier in the thread: that weapon is the perfect example of the problem with exotics in PvE. Here's an exotic 331 rocket launcher that's fully maxed out, and yet it does about half the damage to a praetorian that Gjallarhorn does, even though it's got void damage. That's an extreme example, but I feel it holds true across all the exotics: most of them are drastically outclassed by IB and GH.
The purple damage only applies to the shield- past that damage is damage. \
That's exactly my point: An exotic void rocket launcher against a void shield and it's almost half as effective as a Gjallarhorn.\
I think what you are seeing is the difference in the type of launcher. Ghorn is the only weapon I know of that has wolf pack, so those cluster missiles do a lot of extra damage on TOP of the core rocket. Truth is a one shot, traditional warhead, but the tracking on that one is WAY better than Ghorns. Truth in PvP is a beast. Ghorn in PvP will get the job done, but what a mess! ;) \
Yeah, PvP is a different ball game completely. Like Cody was saying, I find the usefulness of exotics in PvP to be much more spread out. PvE is where I think the problem is :)
Some of the launchers also have cluster bombs, which I find are on par with Ghorn, depending on the target. Each of those little cluster bombs stacks damage too, like the wolf pack rounds. They just don't home in. \
The cluster bombs are cool... Hunger of Crota is my backup rocket launcher. But it doesn't do nearly the damage G-horn does, because as you said the clusters don't seek the target. Most of the time they just fall to the ground, hitting nothing. They're great for taking out packs of low level enemies, though.
Now, it's worth mentioning that I do have 3 fatebringers, 2 Fangs of Ir Yut, and a handful of other exceptional legendary primary weapons. If I didn't have so many great non-exotic primaries, I might be motivated to us my Mythoclast or Thorn more often.\
And that is another difference between you guys- REMEMBER, you are HIGH LEVEL players. You guys raid regularly, and thus have better toys than at least 3/4ths of the population. I by contrast raid infrequently, and have very little raid weapons. Tons of armor though. The only elemental primary I have is Atheon's Epilogue! \Hopefully Bungie will release another update on the "who's using what" popular weapon report again. That was an eye opener. I too, assumed that a lot of people would gravitate towards the same weapons, but the vast majority of players don't have them! \
You guys, the high-rollers are -not- a good population sample in terms of finding averages. See, you guys have a 1st world Destiny problem of "How do I hold all these exotics??" when Joe xbox 360 is like "I finally have enough coins to buy an exotic because I can't get them any other way!" hahahaha
Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \
Where my opinion differs from Cody on this is in our thoughts on a potential solution. I would rather the other exotic weapons get buffed... big time. Bring them all up to the level of Icebreaker and Gjallarhorn. Exotics are so damn hard to get, yet most of the aren't worth the time and effort. They really aren't. I think each and every exotic should stand head-and-shoulders above any legendary in the game (at least in terms of PvE). I'd like all exotics to look, sound, and perform like super weapons.\
That's just you two. Exotics are meant to be juggled!
by Claude Errera , Friday, February 20, 2015, 14:00 (3817 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \
So this is down, a lot, to your playstyle.
I've had Icebreaker for a while, and I use it sometimes - but I'd MUCH rather use, say, LDR, because it's not Exotic. And because I pretty infrequently find myself completely out of Special Ammo (the one place that IB really shines).
::shrug::
Even if I COULD use IB all the time, I probably wouldn't - because when you run out of ammo, shields on your enemies regen faster than your ammo does. With LDR, I can reload 4 new shots and keep taking down that Wizard's health, but with IB, if he's not dead when I hit zero, I have to start all over again.
That's just you two. Exotics are meant to be juggled!
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Friday, February 20, 2015, 14:38 (3817 days ago) @ Claude Errera
Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \
So this is down, a lot, to your playstyle.I've had Icebreaker for a while, and I use it sometimes - but I'd MUCH rather use, say, LDR, because it's not Exotic. And because I pretty infrequently find myself completely out of Special Ammo (the one place that IB really shines).
::shrug::
Even if I COULD use IB all the time, I probably wouldn't - because when you run out of ammo, shields on your enemies regen faster than your ammo does. With LDR, I can reload 4 new shots and keep taking down that Wizard's health, but with IB, if he's not dead when I hit zero, I have to start all over again.
That totally makes sense. As I said in one of my posts earlier in the thread, my complaints with exotics apply almost exclusively to the PvE side of things. I think the work out well in PvP. :)
That's just you two. Exotics are meant to be juggled!
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, February 21, 2015, 18:16 (3816 days ago) @ Claude Errera
Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \
So this is down, a lot, to your playstyle.I've had Icebreaker for a while, and I use it sometimes - but I'd MUCH rather use, say, LDR, because it's not Exotic. And because I pretty infrequently find myself completely out of Special Ammo (the one place that IB really shines).
::shrug::
Even if I COULD use IB all the time, I probably wouldn't - because when you run out of ammo, shields on your enemies regen faster than your ammo does. With LDR, I can reload 4 new shots and keep taking down that Wizard's health, but with IB, if he's not dead when I hit zero, I have to start all over again.
This is why I never use Icebreaker anymore, EXCEPT for the templar and atheon, since their vulnerability windows line up nice with the icebreaker. By the time you empty your magazine, they aren't vulnerable anymore, and by the time they become vulnerable again, your magazine has refilled.
I use LDR when I don't think I can chain headshots, Black Hammer when I can, and icebreaker pretty much only in VoG.
That's just you two. Exotics are meant to be juggled!
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Saturday, February 21, 2015, 18:40 (3816 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \
So this is down, a lot, to your playstyle.I've had Icebreaker for a while, and I use it sometimes - but I'd MUCH rather use, say, LDR, because it's not Exotic. And because I pretty infrequently find myself completely out of Special Ammo (the one place that IB really shines).
::shrug::
Even if I COULD use IB all the time, I probably wouldn't - because when you run out of ammo, shields on your enemies regen faster than your ammo does. With LDR, I can reload 4 new shots and keep taking down that Wizard's health, but with IB, if he's not dead when I hit zero, I have to start all over again.
This is why I never use Icebreaker anymore, EXCEPT for the templar and atheon, since their vulnerability windows line up nice with the icebreaker. By the time you empty your magazine, they aren't vulnerable anymore, and by the time they become vulnerable again, your magazine has refilled.I use LDR when I don't think I can chain headshots, Black Hammer when I can, and icebreaker pretty much only in VoG.
LDR is a great rifle. I've got 1 on each character; it's my go-to when I'm not using Icebreaker. I'd probably use Black Hammer quite a bit as well, I just don't have one yet.
I've actually started using Icebreaker through the entire Crota raid recently. I've stuck with Gjallarhorn in the past, but I'm finding Icebreaker to be more consistently useful.
Am I the only one who hates IB?
by RaichuKFM , Northeastern Ohio, Friday, February 20, 2015, 14:45 (3817 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
I just hate hate hate using that thing.
Firing Rate is king for me, I've noticed.
Am I the only one who hates IB?
by Claude Errera , Friday, February 20, 2015, 14:49 (3817 days ago) @ RaichuKFM
I just hate hate hate using that thing.
Firing Rate is king for me, I've noticed.
Icebreaker's firing rate is actually fine - the problem is that when you get down to 0, the regen rate is MUCH slower than the firing rate. :)
As long as you don't need more than six bullets at once, it's awesome. ;)
Am I the only one who hates IB?
by RaichuKFM , Northeastern Ohio, Friday, February 20, 2015, 15:01 (3817 days ago) @ Claude Errera
I've had an IB; I just couldn't use it (it didn't help I'm a poor sniper overall already). I think it's the (relatively) low firing rate and stability, when I'd happened into (and gotten used to) a pair of Final Bosses very early on, which are the snappiest and stablest archetype, as far as I'm aware.
And now I have Praedyth's Revenge; too bad I don't have a solar Boss.
Did that archetype get an updated counterpart with The Dark Below?
Am I the only one who hates IB?
by uberfoop , Seattle-ish, Friday, February 20, 2015, 14:52 (3817 days ago) @ RaichuKFM
I just hate hate hate using that thing.
Firing Rate is king for me, I've noticed.
Icebreaker's rate of fire is great, as long as you don't smash into the ammo threshold.
If your main goal in life is to fire off 20 shots in quick succession, it's crap, but that's a small price to pay for a lot of punch and infinite ammo.
Yet again, you completely miss the point...
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, February 20, 2015, 09:20 (3818 days ago) @ Korny
Literally one vague example of yours was not a raid weapon. And I've never seen you use a scout rifle with Firefly over a raid weapon...
You don't play with me much anymore n PvE.
It's not about Gjallarhorn. It's about what weapon is worth giving up Gjallarhorn for, and depending on the situation, there are tons. That's why we should only be able to equip one.
Yes exactly. You are right. But I am saying I don't like the way that system ultimately works.
So in your brain, a game where everyone can have fully exotic slots, the game would have MORE sandbox variety?
If Destiny 2 had more careful exotic weapon design, then yes. Again, the key is living up to Bungie's "Feels overpowered but isn't". In Destiny 1 the useful exotics ARE overpowered compared to other guns.
Gjallarhorn is clearly the most powerful rocket / heavy in the entire game. Nobody - nobody - has a video going 'look how fast I took down this enemy!' with anything BUT Gjallarhorn.
If it's a pistol montage, all I ever see are Hawkmoon or occasionally Thorn. Snipers? Well it's called Gamebreaker for a reason.
The 'not actually overpowered' statement could be taken as 'when balanced by the fact you can only have one equipped' and 'you'll have to stop and switch weapons if you want more than one in a fight.' I.e. in the context of the rest of the design rather than just the item itself (which still didn't entirely work out because of the Lollerhorn and Gamebreaker)
The sum of 7 exotics (3 weapons, 4 armours) would absolutely, definitely, certainly be overpowered.
Achlyophage Simbiote, Lucky Raspberry, Radiant Dance Machines, Gjallerhorn, Icebreaker - AHAHAHAHAHAH.
Achlyophage Simbiote, Lucky Raspberry, Radiant Dance Machines, Gjallerhorn, Icebreaker - AHAHAHAHAHAH.
Oh man, can you imagine how much FUN that would be?! :D
Because they lied
Achlyophage Simbiote, Lucky Raspberry, Radiant Dance Machines, Gjallerhorn, Icebreaker - AHAHAHAHAHAH.
Bad juju, icebreaker, gjallarhorn, Obsidian mind, claws of ahamkara, voidfang vestments, raid boots (dammit bungie, give warlocks some exotic boots!).
Because they lied
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, February 20, 2015, 09:16 (3818 days ago) @ RC
The 'not actually overpowered' statement could be taken as 'when balanced by the fact you can only have one equipped'
This is a good point and probably true, however I contend that Destiny 2 would be better off if they dropped the last part of that statement, and simply designed exotics to not be overpowered period, but rather weird and unusual in playstyle changing ways. Like how exotics play out now in crucible.
THEN remove the one exotic limit.
The 'not actually overpowered' statement could be taken as 'when balanced by the fact you can only have one equipped'
This is a good point and probably true, however I contend that Destiny 2 would be better off if they dropped the last part of that statement, and simply designed exotics to not be overpowered period, but rather weird and unusual in playstyle changing ways. Like how exotics play out now in crucible.THEN remove the one exotic limit.
But if everything you are wearing and using is exotic (or can be) then what is the point in Legendary? Just seems like gear-inflation to me. All those normals, uncommons and rares already just get broken down.
Though I don't disgree with your point that exotics not being overpowered would probably be better for the game.
Because they lied
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, February 20, 2015, 11:59 (3818 days ago) @ RC
But if everything you are wearing and using is exotic (or can be) then what is the point in Legendary? Just seems like gear-inflation to me. All those normals, uncommons and rares already just get broken down.
I just explained that. Exotics won't be any better than legendaries. They will simply offer unique perks that may or may not be of use to you in the activity you are playing, or ever. Exotic will not mean BETTER, it will mean UNUSUAL. If anything, exotics should not have the best stats in the game, but instead rely on their talents to be useful. For raw damage, a legendary should win.
Because they lied
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, February 20, 2015, 12:38 (3818 days ago) @ Cody Miller
The problem with that is when Exotics are simply unusual they get called the worst guns in the game. See: Bad Juju, Thorn, Super Good Advice, etc pre-buff...
Because they lied
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Friday, February 20, 2015, 12:42 (3818 days ago) @ Ragashingo
The problem with that is when Exotics are simply unusual they get called the worst guns in the game. See: Bad Juju, Thorn, Super Good Advice, etc pre-buff...
They get called that because not all exotics follow the same MO. If 95% exotics are fairly standard weapons with an interesting or niche perk, but the other 5% are unstoppable tools of destruction, than the 95% look pretty useless by comparison :)
Yeah
by RaichuKFM , Northeastern Ohio, Friday, February 20, 2015, 14:56 (3817 days ago) @ Cody Miller
I like your idea of what Exotics should be, and something rather close to that was what I was expecting them to be. I think there's at least a few who fit that, (like my much-favored Super Good Advice) and hopefully they'll continue to head in the direction of interesting, over effective, though not to an overly high degree (See No Land Beyond, which I might finally be able to snag to play around with if I get around to a Weekly ever).
Hawkmoon + Pocket Infinity + Truth
Do you really want to run into that around every corner in PvP?
I'm gathering this is more of a PvE conversation.
Do you really want to run into that around every corner in PvP?
I cannot count the number of exotics I use in PvP on one hand. There are too many specific loadouts for specific maps.
True, but if it's PvE it'd (likely) be PvP too
Off topic, I wish I had a range of specific guns for specific maps. As it is I just equip whatever Exotic seems like a good idea at the time and hope for the best. It works, by and large, but it'd be nice if I had a plan.
True, but if it's PvE it'd (likely) be PvP too
Off topic, I wish I had a range of specific guns for specific maps. As it is I just equip whatever Exotic seems like a good idea at the time and hope for the best. It works, by and large, but it'd be nice if I had a plan.
I usually just start equipping whatever I die to the most on a given map ;)
I'm gathering this is more of a PvE conversation.
by BeardFade , Portland, OR, Friday, February 20, 2015, 12:03 (3818 days ago) @ iconicbanana
I cannot count the number of exotics I use in PvP on one hand. There are too many specific loadouts for specific maps.
I'm with iconic on this one, I use different loadouts per map. And in truth, most of my IB play has been *gasp* sans exotics.
I don't have an Auto Rifle exotic, so I'm running a legendary there for the bounties, but occasionally I use Thorn or TLW.
Found Verdict is my go to special, unless it's a sniper friendly map and then I use Patience and Time.
And I've been using a Harm's Way for my heavy.
I understand and even agree that exotics should be 'exotic' in their uniqueness and quirkiness, but I also like that they force you to choose and consider loadout. Like... Lucky Raspberry or Knucklehead Radar. Seeing everyone is great, but so is spawning with 'nades!