Avatar

Marty Game Sound Con Talk (Gaming)

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 07, 2014, 22:28 (3699 days ago)
edited by Cody Miller, Tuesday, October 07, 2014, 22:44

Marty did the Keynote speech at Game Sound Con today. He urged me to go after I got the wrong impression when his stance on work for hire came out. I'm glad I went, since I can't really disagree with anything he said when it was presented.

The first half was just fun stuff. Impressions of Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson, an amusing story about prostituting your art, and a bit about what got him here.

Marty’s talk was about helping audio professionals in the games industry start to come together to make work for hire contracts better. He started off by using the Goose with the Golden Egg metaphor. The games industry professionals are the geese, and the work they do are the golden eggs. They are golden because that’s the substance of the game that corporations sell to make money.

In the story, the owners of the Goose want more eggs, so they tear the goose open trying to get more, kill it, and are left with no more eggs. It’s not enough to not kill your geese though, you just have to keep them happy.

Additionally, he posited that corporations often worship the egg, instead of the goose that made it. Basically, companies focus not on the professionals that made the game, but on the game franchise itself. I think everybody can agree this is true in a large amount of cases.

He talked about a dinner he had in 2009 with a big publisher, who made it clear to him they don’t really care at all, twisting his goose metaphor by saying ‘Sometimes we just want some foie gras”.

All you really need to do is not be shitty to your creatives, but large corporations always seem to be shitty to the creatives.

Next, there are two types of people: creative and exploitive. Creative create, and exploitives exploit what the creatives create. Both are necessary. What good is a work if it’s not released or shown to people? Exploitives find a way to sell and get the work out there. Marty then urged everybody to study business a bit, and familiarize themselves with how being exploitive works. Creatives and learn to be exploitive, but not the other way around.

On the topic of work for hire, Marty said he has never worked under any other type of agreement. It’s not bad, because ultimately it lets games actually get done and come out. If you imagine that everything anybody did for a game was licensed, then if there is a dispute over anything, then that could keep the game from shipping. If it’s all owned by the publisher, then that’s never a problem.

The problem is that a lot of work for hire agreements are really bad and one sided. It’s common not to guarantee credit, PRO, future payments, give you no recourse to prevent your work being used against your intent (the company could use your music later in a porno, and you’d have no way to say no), and the big issue which is MORAL RIGHTS.

Tons of work for hire contracts require the audio artist to waive their Moral Rights. He showed an example of one such clause from a “major publisher”. Moral Rights are becoming common in Europe, in that even though you may sell your work to someone else, you still retain many rights by virtue of being the creator. Such as:

-Guaranteed credit.
-Protection from alteration of credits such as adding others or changing your title.
-Protection against deforming changes to your work.
-Prevention of False attribution.
-Preservation of intended use (you could say no to it being used in the porno for example).

Many publishers require these to be waived in the agreements.

I think Marty is asking that Work for Hire agreements be reworked to include these Moral Rights protections. Keep your geese happy, because then you get more golden eggs. Everybody wins.

As an aside, Marty’s a nice guy, and in person he’s pretty on the level and cool. I had this perception of him from media and the documentaries of him having a huge ego, but I didn’t get that sense. Unfortunately the press pass doesn’t come with drink tickets, which is a HUGE oversight seeing as how I would have gotten drunk in front of (or with) him in like 2 seconds.

Also fun fact: the iconic Halo theme was actually borrowed from the Finale of Myth 2.

Avatar

Marty Game Sound Con Talk

by Funkmon @, Tuesday, October 07, 2014, 23:06 (3699 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Last sentence. Mind blown. Then I realized I knew that little fact, or at least, the rumour of it. Here is a link to the Myth II soundtrack on dem yutubez. FULL Myth 2 Soundtrack: Soulblighter [HQ]: http://youtu.be/0IQY_js0DkM

The rest of it: seems like an expansion on his comments before...and I don't know enough to have an opinion on it. I kind of feel for the companies. For example, if you hire some dude to write you a song, surely in the contract you will make sure you can use it for whatever you want , right? I mean, it's your song. Dude agrees, then whatever. Misattribution and modification are a little different, but giving up the usage rights seems okay. Did he talk about why that is bad other than the hypothetical porno?

Marty Game Sound Con Talk

by Jabberwok, Tuesday, October 07, 2014, 23:20 (3699 days ago) @ Funkmon

The rest of it: seems like an expansion on his comments before...and I don't know enough to have an opinion on it. I kind of feel for the companies. For example, if you hire some dude to write you a song, surely in the contract you will make sure you can use it for whatever you want , right? I mean, it's your song. Dude agrees, then whatever. Misattribution and modification are a little different, but giving up the usage rights seems okay. Did he talk about why that is bad other than the hypothetical porno?

The lack of moral rights is what bothers me. But even aside from that, it just kind of sucks when creators lose their own IP to a company. First, because it means they can no longer utilize what they created. Second, because the companies not infrequently make something bad with that property. Or even just sit on the rights so no one else can use them.

I'm still not very happy about the Windows phone Cortana thing. Or Bethesda owning Fallout.

Avatar

Marty Game Sound Con Talk

by Funkmon @, Wednesday, October 08, 2014, 00:02 (3699 days ago) @ Jabberwok

While I agree it can be a dick move, it's often not unreasonable, is it?

Marty Game Sound Con Talk

by Jabberwok, Monday, October 13, 2014, 13:36 (3694 days ago) @ Funkmon

While I agree it can be a dick move, it's often not unreasonable, is it?

I suppose it depends what you mean. A corporation exists to make money, so if it thinks it can do that better by collecting, dissecting, and whoring out the works of artists, then of course it's not unreasonable. I fully expect publishers like Microsoft, Activision, etc, to do exactly that, so while I am not at all surprised by it, I'm also not happy about it. It's a sad state of affairs when a creator has to relinquish their efforts to an entity that doesn't understand or respect their work, and while there are exceptions, that is the sort of thing that usually defines the publisher/developer relationship, which is why I don't like it.

Avatar

Marty Game Sound Con Talk

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Wednesday, October 08, 2014, 17:01 (3699 days ago) @ Jabberwok

The lack of moral rights is what bothers me. But even aside from that, it just kind of sucks when creators lose their own IP to a company. First, because it means they can no longer utilize what they created. Second, because the companies not infrequently make something bad with that property. Or even just sit on the rights so no one else can use them.

I agree. (I still think only using the older Halo music for a few seconds in the beginning and over part of the credits was a completely foolish move by Microsoft.)

I'm still not very happy about the Windows phone Cortana thing. Or Bethesda owning Fallout.

I don't know much about Fallout, but Cortana was pretty different from what Marty was talking about, Jen Taylor cooperated with Microsoft to make Cortana. It's possible she was mislead about the final product, but a lot of people around here seemed to figure out what it would be like as soon as it was announced, so it's hard to think she was clueless.

Marty Game Sound Con Talk

by Jabberwok, Monday, October 13, 2014, 13:29 (3694 days ago) @ General Vagueness

I don't know much about Fallout, but Cortana was pretty different from what Marty was talking about, Jen Taylor cooperated with Microsoft to make Cortana. It's possible she was mislead about the final product, but a lot of people around here seemed to figure out what it would be like as soon as it was announced, so it's hard to think she was clueless.

Hmm, the Cortana thing is definitely different, because I wasn't really referring to their use of Jen Taylor's work, but to the IP in general, and commercializing it in a completely different context that has nothing to do with the game universe. I guess it's the use of the character or at least the name, that bothers me. Cortana has been relegated from saving the galaxy to saying inane things for Microsoft's Siri ripoff.

Actually, I wasn't even aware that Jen Taylor was involved with it at all. It sounds nothing like her in the adds to me, but I suppose it wouldn't, because they would just be using tiny voice samples if anything.

Marty Game Sound Con Talk

by Jabberwok, Tuesday, October 07, 2014, 23:12 (3699 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Additionally, he posited that corporations often worship the egg, instead of the goose that made it. Basically, companies focus not on the professionals that made the game, but on the game franchise itself. I think everybody can agree this is true in a large amount of cases.

This gets me thinking about his possible personal experiences with this phenomenon.

Also fun fact: the iconic Halo theme was actually borrowed from the Finale of Myth 2.

Interesting. I just reinstalled that today, and was thinking that I had forgotten how good the music was.

Marty Game Sound Con Talk

by Fuertisimo, Wednesday, October 08, 2014, 17:12 (3699 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I wish Marty luck, hopefully progress can be made. Everyone wins when the talent isn't treated like chattel.

You should have stuck around.

by MartyTheElder, Thursday, October 09, 2014, 09:30 (3698 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I would have bought you a drink.

Cody is actually a nice guy.

Avatar

You should have stuck around.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, October 09, 2014, 11:04 (3698 days ago) @ MartyTheElder

I would have bought you a drink.

Cody is actually a nice guy.

Raincheck then.

(I had dance lessons. My partner would have been cranky had I skipped out to talk about video game audio :-p)

Back to the forum index
RSS Feed of thread