Not sure of the validity of this "source", but might be worth a look to anyone who is interested. Seems to make sense, but also seems to simply be confirming what a lot of theories tend to hypothesize. Grain of salt?

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2hrpzx/ama_request_someone_from_bungie_or_activision_who/ckvowy2

If true, very unfortunate.

Was going to link this, too. It did make me very sad. I am taking it with a grain of salt, but it does seem to fit with what we've got, and what we saw in the old trailers/interviews.

I just wish Bungie were more up-front about it. Shame that requires a risk of losing employment nowadays.

Always take it with a grain of salt. I haven't read anything in there that was a surprise or anything that really differed from the speculation going around. Could be true, but it doesn't have enough inside information for us to make that call.

Agreed. That's why I pointed out that the validity of the "source" was uncertain. Wasn't surprising, and sounds like standard "screwed by publisher" fare as well as reiterating several theories that already exist on the subject.

Huh. I wasn't surprised that the Exo's beginning was generalized for all the player races. Being awoken from a long-dead slumber makes a lot of sense for a machine.

"Everyone is acutely aware of reaction to the story. How much that will change the "vision" for Destiny is unclear to me."

That actually gives me a lot of hope.

"ALL the origins were homogenized down to the one originally used for Exo characters."

Wow, this makes so much sense. One of the first things I noticed was that being dead a long time and brought back to life makes way more sense if the character is a robot, and fits with the mysterious Exo origins, as well.

"One side wanted this huge space epic, like an MMO Mass Effect and the other side was not convinced that would sell and wanted to pare things back to more "easily accessible" standards. They were afraid too much story elements and cut scenes would drive players off."

Okay, so I'm wondering what person could honestly think that. Someone, either at the studio or the publisher, thought the game should be LESS like Halo and Mass Effect, two of the most successful sci-fi franchises in console history? And we're talking about the developer that made its name on epic, cutscene heavy games. Crazy.

I suppose this could all be fabricated. But even if it is, it's honing in on the game's problems, regardless of what actually happened.

I'm not sure I buy it. I think this guy may just be a fan who is trying to "confirm" what a lot of other people already speculate. For example with the homogenizing of character backstories, even as far back as the GDC talk where we got most of our information one of the things they emphasized is that they didn't want you to miss things or feel like you chose incorrectly based on which race or class you chose. If the story differed between races (a choice they have also ALWAYS said was just cosmetic) then you would be required to play three different races on three different characters to get the full story in game.

A depressing read, if true. It does provide some reasons for hope, though.

What rings true to me is that I doubt many people at Bungie are ignoring criticism or are in denial about the game's flaws.

I'm not sure I buy it. I think this guy may just be a fan who is trying to "confirm" what a lot of other people already speculate. For example with the homogenizing of character backstories, even as far back as the GDC talk where we got most of our information one of the things they emphasized is that they didn't want you to miss things or feel like you chose incorrectly based on which race or class you chose. If the story differed between races (a choice they have also ALWAYS said was just cosmetic) then you would be required to play three different races on three different characters to get the full story in game.

Personally, I would have liked that. I'm not sure why they saw it as a bad thing. I had to play through the game three times anyway just to try out the different classes, and the game is all about repeating missions even when you've finished them already. Would've been nice to change things up a bit with a different origin story. Or heck, even a single acknowledgement that my character is an Awoken in the Reef cutscenes.

Another big pile of opportunistic lies by liar pants.

Poop filled liar pants.

Personally, I would have liked that. I'm not sure why they saw it as a bad thing. I had to play through the game three times anyway just to try out the different classes, and the game is all about repeating missions even when you've finished them already. Would've been nice to change things up a bit with a different origin story. Or heck, even a single acknowledgement that my character is an Awoken in the Reef cutscenes.

Oh don't misunderstand me :) I also think it would've been pretty cool, I just think the guy's posts differ from the message Bungie has been presenting since the game was announced.

Personally, I would have liked that. I'm not sure why they saw it as a bad thing. I had to play through the game three times anyway just to try out the different classes, and the game is all about repeating missions even when you've finished them already. Would've been nice to change things up a bit with a different origin story. Or heck, even a single acknowledgement that my character is an Awoken in the Reef cutscenes.

Oh don't misunderstand me :) I also think it would've been pretty cool, I just think the guy's posts differ from the message Bungie has been presenting since the game was announced.

I agree with that, and I also agree that the post is probably fake. It's the issues I take with Bungie's apparent goals and message for Destiny that makes me almost wish this was real, though.

What rings true to me is that I doubt many people at Bungie are ignoring criticism or are in denial about the game's flaws.

This. Even if they're not speaking out, I suspect that Bungie truly is hearing what we want/need them to hear. And in all honesty, I sincerely doubt that our reaction to the story was unexpected.

There are far too many conflicting facts for this to be true, and everything else is confirmation of speculation. There's no new information here, and therefore confirms absolutely nothing.

Which makes it hard to entertain honestly.

I have no doubt Bungie are well aware of the reaction to each bit of the game.
But unless someone provides more solid proof, I can merely see what this person is saying as a possibility, not as a tool to be used to confirm my own opinions about the game.

I don't buy being unable to prove identity. Other people from other companies have been able to do so. The guy just needs to post his work badge or whatever with any identifiers blacked out.

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I completely agree.
Honestly though, the fact that I believe Bungie recognizes the flaws, and takes them very very seriously, doesn't make me think that they will be able to fix them. In the past they have been a stellar studio, but their current work suggests otherwise.

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On a related note, It's going to be infuriating not being able to sword fly enemies in the XB1 version.

Especially since Halo 2 has an actual storyline that won't require you to buy additional DLC Purchases to complete.

I work for a very large manufacturing company and upper management vision squabbles are not a new thing. Mostly it results in designs getting rushed out the door with known quality issues. Several times designs have failed marketing trials late in development and enormous time and money is spent trying to tweak the design to fix things, but at that point we've already spent millions on tooling and there are big limits to what can be done. Other times there is a growing problem with a component that gets glossed over and covered up until after launch, with the hope that we can patch it later.

Feedback from the customers can reach the higher ups, but there is a large cognitive bias against learning all the lessons, and often nothing can be done with the product as is and we have to wait till the next development cycle to make changes.

It would be a credit to Bungie's leadership to recognize the customer reaction to the game and not double down on their initial plan. Step one is always to recognize that you have a problem, step two is to quantify it.

Destiny has a problem in that it's story is largely missing, and so is much of the content promised during the build up to launch. We need non raid activities for 4-6 people. We need some voice chat. Finally more exploration and story content.

You might say it's an RNG roll.

In all seriousness, I don't know whether to believe this. I know I'd like to believe it, but there is no proof.

The game has no story. It's unlikely that they'll be able to do what is required, which is add dialogue and cutscenes to the story missions currently in the game.

I used to work for Activision, and this sounds exactly like the sort of shenanigans that the shareholders demand from the developers. The fact of the matter is that 99% of Activision's employees want to put out an amazing game, first and foremost. The 1% that muck it up are, unfortunately, the top brass: CEOs, Presidents, and major shareholders, all of whom care only about money and not a whit about quality. Few, if any of them, will ever play the games their company makes. If the developer isn't good about couching their decisions in some sort of market research or scientific study which proves it will make more money (instead of cost more money), then those decisions will be supplanted by some very sort-sighted investment planning. IE: A shareholder would rather make 10% profit *now* while burying the reputation of the developer than wait a year for 5% profit and a loyal fan base for the developer. There will always be more developers to exploit.

I really think this is a systemic flaw in our corporate publisher model, and I'm glad that both Xbox and PS4 are moving to allow more indie devs to self-publish on their systems. It's not as good as the venerable PC is, but it's getting better all the same. I had hoped that the Destiny IP deal had allowed Bungie to maintain its true independence, but if this reddit poster is to be believed, that's clearly not the case.

Especially since Halo 2 has an actual storyline that won't require you to buy additional DLC Purchases to complete.

True enough... but you DID need to buy Halo 3 to complete it.

[OooooOooOOoo]

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Come on, that's just unhelpful hyperbole. There is a story.

Especially since Halo 2 has an actual storyline that won't require you to buy additional DLC Purchases to complete.

True enough... but you DID need to buy Halo 3 to complete it.

If you hadn't posted that, I would've.

Same. But I think I was probably too young to hate it. Besides, it was Halo 2! The sequel to my favorite game of all time! There was no way it could possibly have let me down, unless it was straight-up broken, which (thankfully) it wasn't.

Same. But I think I was probably too young to hate it. Besides, it was Halo 2! The sequel to my favorite game of all time! There was no way it could possibly have let me down, unless it was straight-up broken, which (thankfully) it wasn't.

I keep hoping 343 will remake it like they did with the first one. When I replayed the first game, it was just as good as I remembered, and I feel like the same might be true of the sequel. Halo 2 tried out a lot of new things: destructible vehicles, boarding, duel-wielding, even playing as a different character for a while. And while the writing was far from perfect (most of them have had some bad dialogue moments), I felt like it had the richest story, where a lot of important changes were happening. And unlike Halo 3's escape-the-exploding-thing-haven't-we-done-this-before ending, I liked the Tartarus boss fight because it felt like something new for the series.

Also, I am pretty old, so I wasn't too young to hate things at the time.

I keep hoping 343 will remake it like they did with the first one.

You mean... you don't know?

Seriously?

Crap. They screwed up the sound mix again.

Wow, I did not. Stopped following Halo news some time after H4 was released. That's cool, but I hope I can buy it separate from the collection. I really don't need to buy all those games again.

> Okay, so I'm wondering what person could honestly think that. Someone, either at the studio or the publisher, thought the game should be LESS like Halo and Mass Effect, two of the most successful sci-fi franchises in console history?

Assuming 404 is on the mark at all, the reason Destiny feels odd, characterless, and without a lot of personality is because the original story they cut may have been bad. Like really bad. Bad enough that half the team thought they shouldn't even try to compete with halo/mass effect. Bad enough that Joe was insulted enough to leave. Bad enough that Activision gave the thumbs up to gut it. Please leave the possibility that Destiny, extremely polished in almost every other area, may have had a poor story edited out that was never going to work. And that we might be thankful for it! But this is speculation on top of what may be totally false information. I just want people to be open to the idea they may not WANT to know what was planned.

Wow, I did not. Stopped following Halo news some time after H4 was released. That's cool, but I hope I can buy it separate from the collection. I really don't need to buy all those games again.

Nah. It's sold as a bundle, but you can think of it as buying an updated Halo 2 and getting those other three games for free. Or think of it as paying full price for the first three games, and 343i is paying YOU $120 to play Halo 4!

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http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/70908920/0/0/1

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The truth probably lies in the middle. Bungie might not have a long-term plan as elaborate and thought-out as I hope they do, but they aren't winging it to the extent that post implies.

Halo 3 was a brand new game and nothing that was intended for Halo 2 even really made it in to Halo 3 as it was originally conceived. Destiny on the other hand looks like it will be using a lot of stuff that was cut from the game as DLC content that we will have to pay extra for when it should be free.

Halo 3 was a brand new game and nothing that was intended for Halo 2 even really made it in to Halo 3 as it was originally conceived. Destiny on the other hand looks like it will be using a lot of stuff that was cut from the game as DLC content that we will have to pay extra for when it should be free.

They've said explicitly that every game they've made was like this. Looking at what was planned but got cut from the last project is the first thing they do when beginning a new project. Seems logical that would apply to DLC as well. In regards to whether it should be free, it depends on whether you feel you got your money's worth at the end of the day, doesn't it?

http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/70908920/0/0/1

1. Like he would confirm it
2. He didn't explicitly deny.

When your company releases a bad product, when you are known for quality, people will wonder what happened. We may never know the truth, but the end result is apparent.

At this point, I'm still a Bungie fan, but they have been downgraded considerably on the list of my favorite developers. The magic is gone.

> Okay, so I'm wondering what person could honestly think that. Someone, either at the studio or the publisher, thought the game should be LESS like Halo and Mass Effect, two of the most successful sci-fi franchises in console history?

Assuming 404 is on the mark at all, the reason Destiny feels odd, characterless, and without a lot of personality is because the original story they cut may have been bad. Like really bad. Bad enough that half the team thought they shouldn't even try to compete with halo/mass effect. Bad enough that Joe was insulted enough to leave. Bad enough that Activision gave the thumbs up to gut it. Please leave the possibility that Destiny, extremely polished in almost every other area, may have had a poor story edited out that was never going to work. And that we might be thankful for it! But this is speculation on top of what may be totally false information. I just want people to be open to the idea they may not WANT to know what was planned.

That's entirely possible, I'll grant it, though it's always been a strong point for Bungie in the past. Which doesn't mean much, I guess, because personnel changes can mean a whole different company. But if that's what happened, the solution would be to rework it and replace it with something good. Cutting the bad parts doesn't elevate what remains. And certainly, there are realities of AAA development to consider, what with release dates and finance and all that, but it doesn't change the fact that what we have here is the skeleton of a story (perhaps missing the backbone). The art department has managed to keep a beautiful skin on there, but once I cut into it, there's a disturbing lack of meat inside.

I already regretted buying Halo 4 the first time. I'm not paying for it again. As it stands, I own two copies of the first game, one of the second, maybe two of the third, ODST, Reach, and the lamentable Halo 4. And I will fork out money for an updated Halo 2 if they ever sell it individually, but I certainly don't need the others yet again. Plus, I'm no longer in the phase of expressing my unequivocal support for the series now that the torch has passed to Microsoft, what with the Halo 4s, DLCs, spin-offs, and Cortana phone BS.

"In regards to whether it should be free, it depends on whether you feel you got your money's worth at the end of the day, doesn't it?"

Yes, absolutely. That is the problem in a nutshell.

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That's not an excuse. Chapter 1 doesn't make sense nor is it gripping on an emotional level.

Regardless if you like Halo 4 or not, $60 for 4 singleplayer campaigns, 5 multiplayer modes, 3 forge modes, 100 multiplayer maps, Halo 5 Beta, and Halo nightfall is a freaking steal. Complaining about the inclusion of a game you dislike when you can easily just not play those specific gametypes is simply nitpicking at the extreme.

In the end though, Halo 4 imo is a much better game than Destiny.

That's not an excuse. Chapter 1 doesn't make sense nor is it gripping on an emotional level.

Let alone Halo 3 was not an expansion pack for Halo 2.

In the end though, Halo 4 imo is a much better game than Destiny.

You take that back, heretic!

Post-Script: Since this is the internet I feel I should stress I was being sarcastic, but still, your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

Post-Post-Script: Okay that was more sarcasm no please don't ban me I'll be good I swear!

Halo 3 was a brand new game and nothing that was intended for Halo 2 even really made it in to Halo 3

Didn't the plot?

Good enough for me. I'll trust him.

Didn't the plot?

Not really. When the development crisis hit, Halo 2's original plot wasn't just truncated, it was very heavily modified.

If you haven't given this a watch, do it.

Halo 3 was a brand new game and nothing that was intended for Halo 2 even really made it in to Halo 3

Didn't the plot?

Outside of the Ark, Voi and the basic premise of Halo 3, no I don't believe so. The majority of Halo 3's storyline was written and decided on after Halo 2 was released.

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Not sure of the validity of this "source", but might be worth a look to anyone who is interested. Seems to make sense, but also seems to simply be confirming what a lot of theories tend to hypothesize. Grain of salt?

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2hrpzx/ama_request_someone_from_bungie_or_activision_who/ckvowy2

If true, very unfortunate.

All I can say is this: IF it is indeed a troll, it is a very very good one. Many of the things mentioned are very much plausible for the video game industry, and would explain so much of the current result that is Destiny. Context changes everything.

After all... out here in the wild this is how we... Oh wait.

Assuming this guy is a fake and what he says is all fictitious, what is the alternative? That this is indeed exactly the game Bungie always intended to make and that they a) are surprised by the reaction, or b) knew they simply did a poor job of it and shipped it anyway?

I'm not sure what I want to be true. I'd like to believe Bungie can still create engaging content and that they haven't lost the spark.

Regardless if you like Halo 4 or not, $60 for 4 singleplayer campaigns, 5 multiplayer modes, 3 forge modes, 100 multiplayer maps, Halo 5 Beta, and Halo nightfall is a freaking steal. Complaining about the inclusion of a game you dislike when you can easily just not play those specific gametypes is simply nitpicking at the extreme.

In the end though, Halo 4 imo is a much better game than Destiny.

Maybe I focused too much on that in my post. What I meant is that the vast majority of this content is stuff that I aready own, so it doesn't make sense to be buying it all again, even if the price is reduced. There is only one thing in there that I need or want, so even at a low price, I'm also considering that if I'm going to be creating any demand, I want it to be for the product I'm interested in, and not the other stuff.

I'm also not trying to compare Halo 4 and Destiny. That's a whole other can of worms, and I've already posted a lot on my problems with Destiny. I wouldn't venture to compare the two even in my head, and I don't know how that would turn out. But I am comparing it to the rest of the Halo series, and in that respect I have a lot of irreconcilable problems with it. But yeah, that's neither here nor there. I would just prefer to buy an updated Halo 2 separately because I have bought pretty much everything else in the collection at least once, except for the beta of a game that I'm not interested in.

I don't really understand your thinking. I'm willing to pay $60 for Halo 2 with updated graphics and online co-op and as a bonus I get access to some shiny versions of titles I already own, but will now be able to play without keeping old consoles plugged in.

I would understand if it was on 360. But it is a XBO exclusive, do yeah I'm with Kermit on this.

Assuming this guy is a fake and what he says is all fictitious, what is the alternative? That this is indeed exactly the game Bungie always intended to make and that they a) are surprised by the reaction, or b) knew they simply did a poor job of it and shipped it anyway?

I don't think that's the part that Bungie would be denying. It's the "details" that are the troll part about it. If Bungie reacts like they have before they will admit there were missteps, it just won't be now, and it won't be in a AMA on Reddit (or in reaction to one) from an anonymous Bungie employee.

I don't really understand your thinking. I'm willing to pay $60 for Halo 2 with updated graphics and online co-op and as a bonus I get access to some shiny versions of titles I already own, but will now be able to play without keeping old consoles plugged in.

Ah, well there's the difference. I don't have an Xbox One, just a 360 (and an original lying in a storeroom somewhere). Every Halo game I have is playable on 360, with the exception of Halo 2.

Every Halo game I have is playable on 360, with the exception of Halo 2.

You can play Halo 2 on 360.

Every Halo game I have is playable on 360, with the exception of Halo 2.

You can play Halo 2 on 360.

You can, but ghosting is very annoying, to me anyway. And just so Jabberwok is clear, the new Halo 2 edition won't be playable on a 360.

Every Halo game I have is playable on 360, with the exception of Halo 2.

You can play Halo 2 on 360.

You can, but ghosting is very annoying, to me anyway. And just so Jabberwok is clear, the new Halo 2 edition won't be playable on a 360.

Yeah, that's what I gathered, that's unfortunate. Oh well. I suppose I could dig up my old copy, if I can even find it these days...