Fascinating read from Marty (Off-Topic)

by Claude Errera @, Monday, August 04, 2014, 16:32 (3767 days ago)

This isn't really Destiny-related (or even Halo-related)... but it's a pretty interesting read. GamesIndustry.biz interviewed Marty about the concept of 'work-for-hire' - and his thoughts are worth checking out.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-08-04-work-for-hire-hits-the-wrong-notes

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Fascinating indeed.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, August 04, 2014, 16:49 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

- No text -

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Fascinating read from Marty

by DaDerga, Baile Átha Cliath, Monday, August 04, 2014, 16:50 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

"I got a chance to work with Paul McCartney over the past couple of years, and that was for me personally a super highlight of my career," O'Donnell said. "He's a really nice guy, amazingly talented, fun to work with, easy to work with. At one point when I was talking to him, we were talking about some specific thing and he made this comment: "Well I don't want to do that. That would be a little too 'work-for-hire.'"

"I've always been work-for-hire," O'Donnell said. "And there are some things that can happen aesthetically that are maybe not as pleasing to your creative soul because you're work-for-hire, because you're trying to please somebody else. So you always have to fight just pleasing somebody else and also staying true to your own artistic sensibilities."

[image]

I'll venture that explains what happened.

Fascinating read from Marty

by Kalamari @, Waiting for Ghorn, FB, and BH, Monday, August 04, 2014, 18:31 (3767 days ago) @ DaDerga

I don't know about you guys, but "that just seems like a little too work-for-hire" comes across as pretty pretentious to me. I'll be sure to use this the next time I need to out-snob someone.

I just don't get why artists are so afraid of being viewed as selling out, even in the smallest ways. It's like their suddenly reevaluate their artistic integrity once they become famous or well-known, completely forgetting what it's like being unemployed. So much taken for granted.

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He's a Beatle

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, August 04, 2014, 18:39 (3767 days ago) @ Kalamari

I just don't get why artists are so afraid of being viewed as selling out, even in the smallest ways. It's like their suddenly reevaluate their artistic integrity once they become famous or well-known, completely forgetting what it's like being unemployed. So much taken for granted.

"Famous" and "well-known" isn't even in the same league as he is. If there's one person I'd expect to crawl back at the mention of "selling out" these days, it'd be him.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Monday, August 04, 2014, 19:58 (3767 days ago) @ Kalamari

I don't know about you guys, but "that just seems like a little too work-for-hire" comes across as pretty pretentious to me. I'll be sure to use this the next time I need to out-snob someone.

I just don't get why artists are so afraid of being viewed as selling out, even in the smallest ways. It's like their suddenly reevaluate their artistic integrity once they become famous or well-known, completely forgetting what it's like being unemployed. So much taken for granted.

These conversations can be misinterpreted as pretentious if you're not familiar with the context. There's a big difference between selling out and work-for-hire. Work-for-hire means giving up control and freedom and often a lot of payment. I've even given up credit in work-for-hire contracts. It's a form of employment designed for the employer, not the employee. "Selling out" is doing work that is popular or trendy for money, work-for-hire is about giving up ownership of your work. If I could sell out with a work-for-hire contract, I would probably do it in a heartbeat at this stage in my career, but they're almost mutually-exclusive to me!

As someone who is constantly leaping into unemployment after every job and only getting poor work-for-hire contracts offered to him, I'll take anybody's help in getting the industry smoothed out the other way. It's successful people like these that have the voice to push back against this near-insurmountable wall in the freelance art/music world. People listen to them and they have the luxury to speak without getting crushed by the employers who want work-for-hire to persist. If I speak out against it, no one cares and I don't get jobs.

They're not condemning "sell-outs" by talking about work-for-hire, they're actually potentially helping those people you think they're dissing. See my post below for more of my experience with work-for-hire.

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What Leviathan Said.

by DaDerga, Baile Átha Cliath, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 02:12 (3767 days ago) @ Kalamari

- No text -

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Fascinating read from Marty

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, August 04, 2014, 17:25 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

This isn't really Destiny-related (or even Halo-related)... but it's a pretty interesting read. GamesIndustry.biz interviewed Marty about the concept of 'work-for-hire' - and his thoughts are worth checking out.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-08-04-work-for-hire-hits-the-wrong-notes

Well... seeing as you own the place, I think we'll let it slide this once.

"I think the industry itself is probably on the verge of going through some relatively major changes," O'Donnell said. "The big development studios are probably going to be fewer and fewer, and there are going to be a lot more smaller developers, mainly because I think the days of the big AAA titles that need 600 people to develop are probably going to go away. And that means the need for teams with multiple audio professionals that are full-time, in-house, will probably start to dissipate.

I think its too early to say this. Why? Go where the money is.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, August 04, 2014, 17:34 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-08-04-work-for-hire-hits-the-wrong-notes

So it's going to get harder?

Why not Unionize? Unions can ensure a good working environment, as well as offer some form of creative protection. For instance, the DGA guarantees at least 8 weeks for a directors cut without studio interference. Other unions allow creative professionals to get points as standard so they benefit more.

Fascinating read from Marty

by Avateur @, Monday, August 04, 2014, 18:10 (3767 days ago) @ Cody Miller

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-08-04-work-for-hire-hits-the-wrong-notes


So it's going to get harder?

Why not Unionize? Unions can ensure a good working environment, as well as offer some form of creative protection. For instance, the DGA guarantees at least 8 weeks for a directors cut without studio interference. Other unions allow creative professionals to get points as standard so they benefit more.

Would the entire game studio have to do it? Would it just be for a particular group such as composers, or programmers, etc.? I guess I need more elaboration from you to understand what you're implying they should do, or who should do what, and if it'd have a good chance of success.

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^^Fake troll subject line^^

by bluerunner @, Music City, Monday, August 04, 2014, 17:54 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

J/K

I wonder what's next for Marty. Maybe this revelation from Sir Paul will push him to release some kind of stand alone album. I would love to hear what he could come up with out of the blue, with no constraints.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Monday, August 04, 2014, 19:04 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

This isn't really Destiny-related (or even Halo-related)... but it's a pretty interesting read. GamesIndustry.biz interviewed Marty about the concept of 'work-for-hire' - and his thoughts are worth checking out.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-08-04-work-for-hire-hits-the-wrong-notes

As a freelance illustrator, I can definitely understand these feelings. "Work-for-hire" is an evil word to me, and yet it's the only work I can usually get in-industry.

The literary side of illustration, as in folks who get work with New Yorker, National Geographic and so forth, they seem to have made it over the hump of work-for-hire and now there's a lot more respectable expectations when it comes to contract. You get more for reprints, you can retain original non-exclusive rights, you'll get paid in a fair amount of time, etc. You don't just sell your art forever to a company for them to do as they please as is common with most genre illustration and popular comic book work. There are artists and writers who created characters that Disney or Warner Bros are making millions on right now that are getting nothing. Sometimes they don't even get credited. Look up Bill Finger or why Image Comics was created for more on that...

Of course work-for-hire and that idea of losing most of your rights to a bigger entity wouldn't be as scary sounding if it was assuaged by a payment worthy of such a compromise. But again, genre-illustration hands out the most paltry of sums unless your name is recognizable across the field. When I've sat down and figured out my finances, my work from in-industry has been, compared to the hours spent on the work, less than minimum wage, sometimes much less. And since freelancing is not consistent, you can go months with no work. One of my career goals right now is to just try and get somewhere close to the poverty line of my state with art. But that seems very far away!

I'm still waiting on payment from a company I worked for a year ago now - and it could be even longer till I get it. The way these work-for-hire contracts are formed are all in the benefit of the employer, and there's loopholes that continue to keep them and their investments safe. And if you want to negotiate or play hardball to get a fairer contract? You lose because there's a thousand other hungry freelance artists who are just like you and trying to get their foot in the door. Some of the art directors I've spoken to talk as if they're doing you favor by even reaching out to you. Imagine the feeder at the aquarium and a thousand gulping fish wanting one or two of the jobs they drop in...

I don't mind a challenge. I understand art and entertainment is a crazy industry and ridiculously competitive. But many employers take advantage of that. Getting a job was hard - earning a fair wage for it seems even harder. That's the absurd part I'm trying to point out.

And this is all another reason I'm making my comic, Mayflower. If I'm going to starve, I might as well starve making something I can pour my heart in.

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It's hard to be a saint in the city

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, August 04, 2014, 19:42 (3767 days ago) @ Leviathan
edited by Kermit, Monday, August 04, 2014, 19:47

I'll continue to hope that your commitment to what you can pour your heart into pays off in psychic and monetary ways. Speaking as someone who more or less abandoned his art in order to pay a mortgage and have this ephemeral thing called security, I can say it's a struggle to claw a way back to what your heart wants. People like you inspire me, though.

Fascinating read from Marty

by kapowaz, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 03:52 (3767 days ago) @ Leviathan

As a freelance illustrator, I can definitely understand these feelings. "Work-for-hire" is an evil word to me, and yet it's the only work I can usually get in-industry.

I'm sure it varies from industry to industry, but I can certainly empathise with a lot of what both you and Marty have said there, based on my experience in web development. Somewhat ironically, though, as I've given up more control or say in what I build, my earnings have gone up.

At the earliest stage of my career, I worked in-house with different companies; I wasn't paid very well but I had more say in how I did things. At least, that's how it seemed on the surface: in actual fact I had less say than I thought, and that was frustrating when somebody else pulled the rug from under you. But you do what have to to make ends meet.

Eventually I became a contractor, the very definition of somebody who does ‘work-for-hire’ (interesting side note: I'd never come across the term before, but it was Paul McCartney, a fellow Brit, who used it in the conversation — I'm wondering if it's just because he's been immersed in so much American culture over the years, or if I've just been living under a rock? I digress.) which often meant doing work that wasn't interesting, wasn't sensible (you could point out the potential problems but ultimately the client might tell you to just do it anyway), but ultimately… was very well paid.

I suspect a big part of that is experience level. I'm sure Paul McCartney could receive some amazing offers to work-for-hire based just on who he is, but he chooses to ignore them because, well, he doesn't need them. I'm finally in a similar position where I don't need to take every contract that comes my way, so I'm able to be a bit more particular. I'm sure that will happen for you and every other person working in a creative vocation eventually.

A lot of people who are making their way up the ladder in a creative role, or one related to video game production seem to come through DBO. I can't speak to the latter exactly, but for whatever it's worth I'd say that whilst ‘work-for-hire’ might feel dirty and wrong, it's potentially the path to something better: the freedom to be creative in the way you want, and get rewarded for it.

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Preach!

by MrPadraig08 ⌂ @, Steel City, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 07:36 (3767 days ago) @ kapowaz

which often meant doing work that wasn't interesting, wasn't sensible (you could point out the potential problems but ultimately the client might tell you to just do it anyway)

This is my everyday pretty much. I worked for about a year consulting for a corporate madhouse. I made pretty good money to go in everyday, do little work, get sidetracked by their incompetence, and repeat. It was pay, but after a few months of being there and making no headway, it became really grating. That's the gamble in consulting/contracting client can be good or shit, the project can be good or shit, but usually the pay is the same. (Except in the times where incompetence pays the bills, then you paid more to slowly lose your sanity and semblance.)

I'm not mad about any of it though, because getting the experience of working beside good developers and understanding the depth of ineptitude of some common corporate structures was well worth it. And I'm not quite at a level where I can dictate what work I will and won't do. Until then, I'll be your software trick, baby.

Preach!

by kapowaz, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 07:48 (3767 days ago) @ MrPadraig08

I'm not mad about any of it though, because getting the experience of working beside good developers and understanding the depth of ineptitude of some common corporate structures was well worth it. And I'm not quite at a level where I can dictate what work I will and won't do. Until then, I'll be your software trick, baby.

This, so much. It's well worth throwing yourself into the deep end of a large organisation to find out how they tick (so long as you don't wear your colours too strongly). You come out of it stronger and with a broader perspective on which things truly matter, I think.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 10:49 (3766 days ago) @ kapowaz

A lot of people who are making their way up the ladder in a creative role, or one related to video game production seem to come through DBO. I can't speak to the latter exactly, but for whatever it's worth I'd say that whilst ‘work-for-hire’ might feel dirty and wrong, it's potentially the path to something better: the freedom to be creative in the way you want, and get rewarded for it.

There are business realities that make work-for-hire much more desirable. For instance, with a film, there is so much to clear legally with regards to music rights in all the different countries you distribute in, television, DVD, VOD, and Digital download, that if you don't own the score it's going to be a huge pain.

There's problems all the time with licensed music. For instance, there's still no DVD release of The Wonder years, in part because of issues with the music licensing. It's finally been resolved, but it took YEARS.

Do you think MS or Sony is going to want to go through that when they offer an Anniversary, or special retro edition of Halo?

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Been waiting for TotalAudio to reassemble...

by Pyromancy @, discovering fire every week, Monday, August 04, 2014, 20:57 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I have purposefully stayed silent on the entire issue until now. Been foolishly waiting for TotalAudio to reassemble...and Bungie to hire Marty and Mike as independents again. But it seems so clear that ship has sailed and bridge burned. Every new 'development' and legal action just reopens the wound and makes me more and more sad. I think this article has all but confirmed some of my silent suspicions?

I for one, will not purchase the "Destiny Soundtrack" or "Music of the Spheres" (if it ever releases - F*** you Geoff Keighly), no matter how good it is, unless it is explicitly credited to Mike and Marty and they are both receiving residuals or royalties of some kind per sale.
It is not about the money, it is about the artist getting their credit where the credit is due and being compensated fairly for it. Of any of the mostly independent and somewhat progressive video game companies, Bungie should be the one working with the audio team and trying to reshape the industry for the better. Instigate the change, not resist it while contributing to the larger problem. Re-shape the business model. (Maybe their hands are tied by Activision?)

I will not pad Bungie or Activision's pockets for letting Marty go and benefiting from his heart filled artistic creations. If there is no plan for fair compensation to Marty and Mike, I hope that the official soundtrack or "Music of The Spheres", and any future soundtrack installments sell ZERO copies. If Bungie/Activision's final case is for ripping off the arists they employ (be it audio directors, concept artists, engineers, writers, programmers, producers, etc.), I attest that each of us should donate the money that we would have spent per soundtrack copy to Marty's Daughter's non-profit charity FosterKinship or the Bungie Foundation instead of purchasing the soundtrack. Let's instigate the change in the business model instead of laying down. We can make a significant statement and benefit others at the same time.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by Jordan117 @, Ala-blam!-a, Monday, August 04, 2014, 22:35 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

That's an odd sore spot to have -- I thought one of Marty's claims to fame was that he was one of the very few video game composers who was *not* work-for-hire. That is, he was a long-term salaried employee, as opposed to the freelancers and contractors that do most VG music.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by narcogen ⌂ @, Andover, Massachusetts, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 06:41 (3767 days ago) @ Jordan117

That's an odd sore spot to have -- I thought one of Marty's claims to fame was that he was one of the very few video game composers who was *not* work-for-hire. That is, he was a long-term salaried employee, as opposed to the freelancers and contractors that do most VG music.

I think the distinction he makes in the article is not about how he is paid, but about who owns the final work.

Whether we're talking about Bungie hiring Total Audio as a third party studio, as they did in the Myth days, or Bungie hiring O'Donnell and Salvatori as employees in their own in-house audio department, if the owner of the final work is Bungie rather than Total Audio or the individuals, then the works produced are works for hire.

In the film industry I believe composers at least get, if not rights control, then at least additional compensation upon the publication of movie soundtracks. I actually thought O'Donnell already had that sort of deal, but if not then it appears that is what he is suggesting.

It is interesting, though, that hardly anybody talks about the same sort of rights being extended to concept artists, or environment artists, or level designers, or programmers, or any of the other creative professions that work in producing games and films. One can argue that soundtracks are just different, but I think it's something worth thinking about. For one thing, soundtracks can be purchased, consumed and experienced separately from the work they were created for, which is not true for most other related endeavors.

Of course, assuming that all the soundtracks are owned by Bungie, O'Donnell still gets a piece on the back end one way or another, given that he is also a shareholder. How to realize income from that asset is another question-- I don't think LLCs can pay dividends, put it is possible for them to share profits. It depends how Bungie LLC is structured.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 10:32 (3766 days ago) @ narcogen
edited by Cody Miller, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 10:40

In the film industry I believe composers at least get, if not rights control

They don't. It's all work for hire.

The bottom line is that if you're writing something for someone else, it's going to be a work for hire situation. There's no way around it. Elfman's and Williams' efforts are work for hire. They may get a right to issue direct licenses, but ultimately the work is not owned by them.

I can't say this is true in every single situation, but I don't know of any counterexamples. I don't think you could even do that. Try to simply license your work to the producer, and the studio or network will simply require direct license of the performing rights be included in the licensing deal. That means you don't get royalties.

Soundtracks and scores are not like writing a Beatles record. A Beatles song is not meant to supplement another work. Mr. McCartney can write and self publish if he wishes. Marty can too, but then it's not in a game or movie.

After re-reading it, what he's envisioning is something literally nobody in the industry gets.

Fascinating read from Marty

by kapowaz, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 10:46 (3766 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Soundtracks and scores are not like writing a Beatles record. A Beatles song is not meant to supplement another work. Mr. McCartney can write and self publish if he wishes. Marty can too, but then it's not in a game or movie.

This sort of answers a question I'd love to put to Marty: what kind of work he'd look to get involved in next. An aversion to work-for-hire would suggest that movies and other video games are out of the question (but maybe they're not that out of the question) and maybe he's going to look at composing works that exist in their own right.

After re-reading it, what he's envisioning is something literally nobody in the industry gets.

I'm wondering if there isn't some loophole way around this. Lots of musicians have their works included in video games; they just write and produce them independently beforehand, then their publisher licenses them to the game publisher. If that can work, maybe there's a route available? But then again maybe not; these artists’ work tends to already be well known (although I can think of one example where less well-known licensed music was included in a game: the WipeOut series).

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Fascinating read from Marty

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 10:46 (3766 days ago) @ Cody Miller

In the film industry I believe composers at least get, if not rights control


They don't. It's all work for hire.

The bottom line is that if you're writing something for someone else, it's going to be a work for hire situation. There's no way around it. Elfman's and Williams' efforts are work for hire. They may get a right to issue direct licenses, but ultimately the work is not owned by them.

I can't say this is true in every single situation, but I don't know of any counterexamples. I don't think you could even do that. Try to simply license your work to the producer, and the studio or network will simply require direct license of the performing rights be included in the licensing deal. That means you don't get royalties.

Soundtracks and scores are not like writing a Beatles record. A Beatles song is not meant to supplement another work. Mr. McCartney can write and self publish if he wishes. Marty can too, but then it's not in a game or movie.

What about "Live and Let Die"? That's the first thing I thought of when I heard the McCartney quote. The song was the theme for a James Bond film. I wonder if that was work for hire? Someone like McCartney, though, probably has all the leverage in such a situation and can retain whatever rights he wants.

I wasn't offended by the McCartney comment, but it is a luxury to be able to stay true to your artistic muse first and foremost. I think that's less likely when your work is merely an element that contributes to the larger whole.

Cody, read it one more time.

by MartyTheElder, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 14:40 (3766 days ago) @ Cody Miller

"In some cases, O'Donnell said limiting the benefits of work-for-hire to the immediate compensation makes sense."

"When you're really expecting a group of people to work toward a common vision, but you're also depending on the individual artistic visions of the people you're hiring, I think it makes sense to not only allow some of those people to be credited for sure, but also maybe to benefit in the success of what happens in the future."

There are different ways of handling work-for-hire contracts. Yes, almost all film composers are work-for-hire but they have performing rights organizations and most of the time royalties on soundtracks. Also they are usually protected against the "owner" simply taking the "owned" music and selling it to someone else's film project, or putting it in a commercially available music library.

Cody, you actually know a lot, but surprisingly not everything. Come to my talk, I just want to get a discussion started for the benefit of all the people who contribute to a project.

My point is that not all work-for-hire deals are identical. In some industries, there are some better protections for the artist than in other industries.

This was not intended to be the definitive article on the subject. That comes later. ;-)

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Cody, read it one more time.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 15:59 (3766 days ago) @ MartyTheElder
edited by Cody Miller, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 16:08

Cody, you actually know a lot, but surprisingly not everything. Come to my talk, I just want to get a discussion started for the benefit of all the people who contribute to a project.
My point is that not all work-for-hire deals are identical. In some industries, there are some better protections for the artist than in other industries.

This is definitely a topic that's going to be important in the coming years, not just for game composers but others in the game industry as well. I think they all DO need better protections.

Are you referring to your Pax Prime composer panel? I would, but it's sold out. Get me in, and I'll totally go, but I guess I'll just have to watch the video.

Cody, read it one more time.

by Avateur @, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 17:37 (3766 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Maybe he meant this (bottom paragraph of the article):

"The GameSoundCon game music and sound design conference runs October 7-8 at the Millennium Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles. More details are available at the event's official website."

You could make that one at least, right?

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Cody, read it one more time.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 17:56 (3766 days ago) @ Avateur

Maybe he meant this (bottom paragraph of the article):

"The GameSoundCon game music and sound design conference runs October 7-8 at the Millennium Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles. More details are available at the event's official website."

You could make that one at least, right?

Definitely!

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Fascinating read from Marty

by narcogen ⌂ @, Andover, Massachusetts, Wednesday, August 06, 2014, 08:53 (3766 days ago) @ Cody Miller


After re-reading it, what he's envisioning is something literally nobody in the industry gets.


I was wondering if that was the case.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, August 06, 2014, 09:48 (3766 days ago) @ narcogen


After re-reading it, what he's envisioning is something literally nobody in the industry gets.

I was wondering if that was the case.

It's not. Maybe he'll come in and correct me again if I'm wrong, but what he seems to be asking for is that game composers get the same benefits and protections as composers in other industries.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by narcogen ⌂ @, Andover, Massachusetts, Wednesday, August 06, 2014, 20:00 (3765 days ago) @ Cody Miller


After re-reading it, what he's envisioning is something literally nobody in the industry gets.

I was wondering if that was the case.


It's not. Maybe he'll come in and correct me again if I'm wrong, but what he seems to be asking for is that game composers get the same benefits and protections as composers in other industries.

Well, it depends what you mean by "the industry".

Perhaps he wants game composers to get something game composers currently don't get, but film composers (some of them) do get.

Somebody has to be first.

On the other hand, if we don't actually know what game composers and film composers do and don't get, it's hard to even comment on it.

I expect the publishers would (and probably have) strong objections to it, but I do wonder if the fastest route to that sort of change is unionization.

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Fascinating read from Marty

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, August 06, 2014, 21:54 (3765 days ago) @ narcogen


After re-reading it, what he's envisioning is something literally nobody in the industry gets.

I was wondering if that was the case.


It's not. Maybe he'll come in and correct me again if I'm wrong, but what he seems to be asking for is that game composers get the same benefits and protections as composers in other industries.


Well, it depends what you mean by "the industry".

Perhaps he wants game composers to get something game composers currently don't get, but film composers (some of them) do get.

Somebody has to be first.

On the other hand, if we don't actually know what game composers and film composers do and don't get, it's hard to even comment on it.

I expect the publishers would (and probably have) strong objections to it, but I do wonder if the fastest route to that sort of change is unionization.

I'm going to game sound con with a friend who did audio work for Sega for many years, so I'll be sure to tell you all about Marty's talk.

Who owns the Halo theme tune now?

by kapowaz, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 07:54 (3767 days ago) @ Claude Errera

You'd think that given that the Halo series is now Microsoft's intellectual property, this would also include the theme tune to the Halo games that Marty composed, but they elected not to re-use it in Halo 4, and the teaser for Halo: Guardians suggests 343i are sticking with creating their own, new theme. But is that a creative decision or is it because the rights to that theme still reside with Marty? In which case, with him no longer even working at Bungie, does that mean they might metaphorically gather dust in the cupboard?

I've always found it interesting that for game tie-ins of major movie IPs like Star Wars and Harry Potter tend to go one of two routes: they either use the exact music from the films (e.g. X-Wing: Alliance, which had snippets from the whole series on the game disc) or they hire another composer entirely to create a thematically-similar but most definitely entirely new soundtrack (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, for example). But maybe that was because the main theme ‘belongs’ to John Williams? Is there a similar situation with Marty?

Feel free to chime in here, by the way Marty :)

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Who owns the Halo theme tune now?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, August 05, 2014, 16:02 (3766 days ago) @ kapowaz

You'd think that given that the Halo series is now Microsoft's intellectual property, this would also include the theme tune to the Halo games that Marty composed, but they elected not to re-use it in Halo 4

But they did :-)

It's subtle, but it plays during one of the cutscenes in the level Composer.

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