I guess I'll have this to occupy myself with.

Why are the great tools the community loved being dropped? :(

I wouldn't be entirely surprised by some kind of free camera mode, but I think stuff like Theater and Forge aren't really in line with the focus of this game. It's definitely not Halo. Especially with the next gen systems being able to stream out of the box, I think it's a pretty easy write off.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised by some kind of free camera mode, but I think stuff like Theater and Forge aren't really in line with the focus of this game.

People keep saying that but I haven't seen a good explanation of what that means or why I should care.
Unrelatedly, does the Xbone have have a screenshot capability?

I guess I'll have this to occupy myself with.

Both the PS4 and XB1 can capture video on the fly, and both have the ability to stream.

Theater mode doesn't really make sense for the kind of game Destiny is- how do you define cut offs? Yeah, there are missions (A set start and stop) just like Halo that can be captured, but what about explore mode? How is your console going to store such a potentially large file? How is record going to handle when there are other guardians\friends potentially dropping in and out around you? What about recording in the tower? Should the game do that?

Essentially, I think it is unreasonable to record in this kind of game because it's "always on" and the engagements last longer than Halo because they are not separated the same way.

If the game was going to have it, I think we'd have heard about it by now.

But I know that doesn't make your heart ache for it any less :(

Other features from Halo

Forge does not make sense for Destiny.

I don't see it working for the kind of multi-player destiny offers. It's just not the same.

Fire fight kinda makes sense for Destiny, but then again, all Destiny is, is just a giant open version of Fire Fight, with mini Fire Fight events sprinkled in (defend this object FF, take out this important guy FF, blow up this huge guy FF).

Why are the great tools the community loved being dropped? :(

Because Destiny is not the same game as Halo?

Because Destiny offers different things to do than Halo?

Because Destiny is focused on the golden triangle of the three player experience and not necessarily larger parties like Halo?

Because the community is pretty good at finding and inventing new things to do?

Destiny has a lot of unique potential for new community stuff. It shouldn't have the same things that Halo did because Halo had them and Bungie made Halo.

How do you expect an artist (or studio) to grow and create new things if you keep asking them to make the same ole same ole all the time?

It's apples and oranges, man.

"Dropped" is the wrong word to use here.

Yeah, but... How does any of that preclude the inclusion of a theater mode? Theater would have fit snugly with the rest of Destiny's features. If they needed an in-story explanation for it, they could just say that your Ghost records old missions for later review.

It's apples and oranges, man.

Eh. While I agree Theater was probably implemented with MP in mind, I find it invaluable for campaign as well, since the hijinks people of HBO managed to pull off in campaign were absurdly more fun to watch than the ones in MP.

I expect the same will also reflect in Destiny. So far, Paddy alone had already proved that to me, but you can clearly see more people in this very forum making good use of PvE footage already.

"Dropped" is the wrong word to use here.

Not really, imho. You can disagree on its importance, but I think it is pretty much a given that Bungie does Theater really well, so it is only natural to assume (emphasis on word) Destiny would have it too.

You're absolutely right. File sizes would border on the unreasonable.

... what about explore mode? How is your console going to store such a potentially large file? How is record going to handle when there are other guardians\friends potentially dropping in and out around you?

Halo 3 launched in 2007 - 7 years ago. Films were never more than a few 10s of MB for hours of footage. Players could drop in and out of custom multiplayer matches and the film file would still be completely valid and playable.

Yeah, but... How does any of that preclude the inclusion of a theater mode? Theater would have fit snugly with the rest of Destiny's features. If they needed an in-story explanation for it, they could just say that your Ghost records old missions for later review.

Because it requires a certain amount of work and resources they have to put in to designing a theater mode over any other feature they want in Destiny. I agree with Rev, just because a past Bungie game included ANY feature does not mean they are beholden to make it, especially if they have new ideas they have higher on their priority list.

It just seems to fit so well with the concept of Destiny for there to be a theater mode. Guardians sharing their personal legends amongst each other and all that jazz...

... what about explore mode? How is your console going to store such a potentially large file? How is record going to handle when there are other guardians\friends potentially dropping in and out around you?

Halo 3 launched in 2007 - 7 years ago. Films were never more than a few 10s of MB for hours of footage. Players could drop in and out of custom multiplayer matches and the film file would still be completely valid and playable.

Again, I'm going to point to the size of files being much larger NOW than they ever would have been in Halo 3.

Let's say you go off on a tear during explore mode. You've been in explore mode for 4 hours.

How irritating is it going to be loading that 4 hour file and tracking down the segment you want? Better hope it's not like it was in Halo 3 and Reach where you have to advance to the whole thing to get to the end.

No, Destiny not having theater makes a lot of sense due to the capability of the PS4 and XB1; Something awesome happen in a battle and you want to record it? If you have Kinect you can say "Xbox record that". Done. If you don't have Kinect, well you're boned then aren't you? This also makes sense, because Bungie probably wasn't expecting Microsoft to do a 180 on the mandatory kinect.

For the PS4, it is always recording and you can even prepare it to record if you know something is going to happen. Pretty neat actually.

In terms of recording capability, the PS4 currently has the XB1 beat- but this could easily change with a software update to the XB1.

Add twitch capability to each console and I see another reason for Bungie to not spend development resources on theater.

Factor in future cloud storage and the consoles have it in the bag.

It's not that theater is gone- it's just evolved.

I'm pretty damn happy I can record from ANY game thanks to the console. It's not just limited to Halo and people with capture equipment now.

Yes. Looking back, knowing that Bungie would have early access to the specs and capability of the PS4 and XB1 well before the public, no theater makes prefect sense.

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It just seems to fit so well with the concept of Destiny for there to be a theater mode. Guardians sharing their personal legends amongst each other and all that jazz...

FWIW, I don't think anyone's actually disagreeing with that.

Well, then perhaps I have been misinterpreted. I never "expected" a theater mode to be included in Destiny and it's no big deal (to me) that it isn't there. But I am confounded as to why Bungie chose not to include it since it fits the concept of the game so well.

If you have Kinect you can say "Xbox record that". Done. If you don't have Kinect, well you're boned then aren't you? This also makes sense, because Bungie probably wasn't expecting Microsoft to do a 180 on the mandatory kinect.

Without Kinect, just open/snap the Game DVR app, which will then have the option to record the last 30 seconds of gameplay (or up to the next 5 minutes)

It's not that theater is gone- it's just evolved.

I'm pretty damn happy I can record from ANY game thanks to the console. It's not just limited to Halo and people with capture equipment now.

I was really just disagreeing your impression of it being technically infeasible. I don't see why you think films would be much bigger, nor do I think it would be impossible to split long films or create skip points.

To me, the fact that several games this gen already have photomodes where there were none before kinda shows that just screen-capping gameplay is... limiting.

There were these beautiful montages in Halo 3 & Reach that took advantage of the fly-cam to give interesting perspectives on the action. As well as break up the monotony of scoped sniper headshot after scoped sniper headshot.

Not going to be possible in Destiny. It's a shame.

p.s. sacrificing control of your footage to cloud services, suffering from ugly compression and with local upload bandwidth constraints; the in-built recorders are absolutely no substitute for theatre and dedicated capture hardware. I've seen what the Xbone does to footage of Titanfall and it's horrendous. I can barely watch it.

Forge does not make sense for Destiny.

When a game has a good sandbox, it is unfortunate to limit it to the developer's environments. Forge makes as much sense for Destiny as it did for Halo. There are huge opportunities for community content--Sparrow trick maps full of half pipes, the Vault of Flaming Ninja Glass, custom PvE scenarios, and PvP arenas.

You might not want to Forge, but given the tool, the community would make incredible things with it.

Look a few threads over where people are concerned that Destiny's 4 worlds are too few. Forge is infinite content.

I also lament Titanfall not having Forge, that would be fun with the game's movement mechanics.

[subject:] Because there is no need for it.

There wasn't any need for theater either, but they added it and kept having it.

I guess I'll have this to occupy myself with.

Both the PS4 and XB1 can capture video on the fly, and both have the ability to stream.

So? That doesn't do me, playing on the 360, any good. Those newer consoles don't have a detachable camera either. Does any system but the PS4 even have a screenshot capability? The lack of theater would definitely sting less if they just gave us a screenshot capability (something like the one brought up in the original post would be great, but even just snapshots would be good).

Theater mode doesn't really make sense for the kind of game Destiny is- how do you define cut offs? Yeah, there are missions (A set start and stop) just like Halo that can be captured, but what about explore mode? How is your console going to store such a potentially large file? How is record going to handle when there are other guardians\friends potentially dropping in and out around you?

Halo 3, ODST, and Reach seemed to handle those OK.

What about recording in the tower? Should the game do that?

yes

Essentially, I think it is unreasonable to record in this kind of game because it's "always on" and the engagements last longer than Halo because they are not separated the same way.

why?

If the game was going to have it, I think we'd have heard about it by now.

Well yeah, that's why people are saying they doubt it.

But I know that doesn't make your heart ache for it any less :(

:(

Other features from Halo

Forge does not make sense for Destiny.

As it stands it doesn't look like it, but it only looks that way because it looks like Destiny won't even have any custom games at all, which takes away the whole point of Forge.

I don't see it working for the kind of multi-player destiny offers. It's just not the same.

...what?

Fire fight kinda makes sense for Destiny, but then again, all Destiny is, is just a giant open version of Fire Fight, with mini Fire Fight events sprinkled in (defend this object FF, take out this important guy FF, blow up this huge guy FF).

It doesn't really make sense to have it be a separate thing. Some missions or strikes that are built around defense would pretty much be Firefight. That would be an interesting thing to have, actually, they could do just that, maybe even pattern it after a Firefight map.

Is there something wrong with my hoping for theater mode? You've posted a variation of this before when I've mentioned it, and I don't get why it seems so unreasonable to include the feature, given Bungie's history with it (BTW, it's not a Halo thing. Marathon and Myth had films, too.)

Second, a good bit of my favorite fan-created content could not have been made with only video capture. Video capture simply does not replace theater mode.

Lastly, I don't think you understand how films worked. The game engine and assets are what take up space. I'm not saying Destiny doesn't present unique technical hurdles. Halo did, too, else the first two games might have had them.

So? That doesn't do me, playing on the 360, any good. Those newer consoles don't have a detachable camera either. Does any system but the PS4 even have a screenshot capability? The lack of theater would definitely sting less if they just gave us a screenshot capability (something like the one brought up in the original post would be great, but even just snapshots would be good).

360 I don't think that'll ever happen, but for the One it is on their list to be included in monthly updates soon.

Lastly, I don't think you understand how films worked. The game engine and assets are what take up space. I'm not saying Destiny doesn't present unique technical hurdles. Halo did, too, else the first two games might have had them.

That bit right there? That's why I think we didn't get something like Theater or Forge this time round. I don't think it's because they don't want us to have these things, I think it's because there are hurdles to vault, and considerations need to be made for how they're implemented. In the end, these are problems to solve for the next game. Spend the first one getting everything else nailed down, then you can spend time later embellishing what's there.

Also car15 mentioned "theater fitting in line with guardians sharing their legend". Personally, I'm not sure I'd ever use it for that. As far as I know, most, if not all, of our real life legends are written or verbal, not visual. Just referencing a post I made a few days ago about Nomis dropping into my game and saving my bacon... Which is more interesting: Me writing about it? Where I can tell you how I felt, what the situation was to my eyes, how amazing it was to see him there suddenly? Or me uploading a clip so you can watch it without any of that context? Even if I provided that write up alongside the clip, the clip would pale in comparison. That moment was ultimately boring to watch, it isn't exciting in the least to see. It'd be literally 10 seconds long. I'm reloading, about to be smacked by a Captain, the Captain drops dead, I turn around, there's Nomis, we go back to killing things. But hearing about that moment? Hoo boy.

Legends aren't just records of accomplishments or events, they're the feelings and emotions that go along with them. They're epic stories more than anything else.

Also car15 mentioned "theater fitting in line with guardians sharing their legend". Personally, I'm not sure I'd ever use it for that. As far as I know, most, if not all, of our real life legends are written or verbal, not visual. Just referencing a post I made a few days ago about Nomis dropping into my game and saving my bacon... Which is more interesting: Me writing about it? Where I can tell you how I felt, what the situation was to my eyes, how amazing it was to see him there suddenly? Or me uploading a clip so you can watch it without any of that context? Even if I provided that write up alongside the clip, the clip would pale in comparison. That moment was ultimately boring to watch, it isn't exciting in the least to see. It'd be literally 10 seconds long. I'm reloading, about to be smacked by a Captain, the Captain drops dead, I turn around, there's Nomis, we go back to killing things. But hearing about that moment? Hoo boy.

Legends aren't just records of accomplishments or events, they're the feelings and emotions that go along with them. They're epic stories more than anything else.

Aha! But you see, why must it be one or the other? Now imagine your epic write-up one day in the future, or even of this past event. There you are, writing. You're building up. You're describing this thing that happened where someone came in and something awesome happened. It's literally ten seconds long. Your words, expertly crafted to build excitement and awe, set the stage for the video right below it. Holy cow, he wasn't kidding! That was pretty cool!

In the sad, pitiful age of TL;DR, sometimes ten second videos do the trick. Add words along with the videos, and your Legend may be solidly ingrained in the history of the solar system for ages to come. Be Brave.

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Aha! But you see, why must it be one or the other? Now imagine your epic write-up one day in the future, or even of this past event. There you are, writing. You're building up. You're describing this thing that happened where someone came in and something awesome happened. It's literally ten seconds long. Your words, expertly crafted to build excitement and awe, set the stage for the video right below it. Holy cow, he wasn't kidding! That was pretty cool!

In the sad, pitiful age of TL;DR, sometimes ten second videos do the trick. Add words along with the videos, and your Legend may be solidly ingrained in the history of the solar system for ages to come. Be Brave.

Never meant to imply it should be one or the other. I probably wouldn't attach videos to my tales of legend, but I would never want to deny other people the opportunity to do so. You're absolutely right. Sometimes videos do tell you everything you need to know, and I look forward to hopefully getting a theater mode down the line. For know though, I'm ready to read some really sick stories.

Well, then perhaps I have been misinterpreted. I never "expected" a theater mode to be included in Destiny and it's no big deal (to me) that it isn't there. But I am confounded as to why Bungie chose not to include it since it fits the concept of the game so well.

That's one of the main reasons why. It's super extremely hard to have deterministic synchronized gameplay with a bunch of AI and co-op players. They've taken their co-op and made it ingrained in the game and even more complicated with massive seamless (I've seen the seams a few times) areas and automatic drop in/out co-op.

So the technical challenge to including theatre mode just became an order of magnitude harder than before. And Bungie was already operating at almost twice their previous size trying to pull off what they are pulling off with Destiny.

So I'm not confounded or confused one bit why they "chose" not to include it.

I mean, the XP is shared, the loot is instanced privately...

The only thing that would truly need to be synchronized with a tad more fidelity than your usual Halo PvP is direction of heavy shots fired, like the Devil Walker's rocket launcher.

The AI need to be in sync in some way, otherwise they'd be completely useless, not knowing where the guardians are, where to shoot, what to dodge.

I mean, why can't the AI be a bit inconsistent across players? It wouldn't ruin the experience, would it?

It would when your spider tank kills you on the left side of the map, Beorn's kills him in the center, and mine kills me on the right... all with the same shot. We're able to fight as a team because we see the AI in the same spots... and the AI is in the same spots because it responded to all of us equally. Same with its firing patterns and grenades and so on. It'd be total unplayable chaos as if we were playing three completely separate games if it wasn't synced up somehow.

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I dunno. Just sounds unfeasible to sync every single frame (30 every second, weird common Bungie frame skipping non-withstanding) between every single machine (up to 6 in every single game, as far as I noticed [and promised for Raids]) while keeping everyone running the game in real-time.

I mean, my latency when connected to you guys should be above 150ms (if not 250ms), which gives, in the best case scenario, 183ms for the console to do its calculations AND render the player's frame while keeping a 30fps target framerate.

Yes, it runs on Space Magic compared to the Firefight systems of Halo 3, ODST, and Reach. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

(I'd love to hear a real explanation on how they pulled it off when the two previous games were fairly crap with anything less than a perfect connection to your next door neighbor.)

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March 2015 should give them plenty of time to get comfortable with sharing the gist of the netcode.

http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=5723

An article where Jones himself says he's incorporating "luck" into Destiny's hit mechanics. Given how the article flows, it implies PvP already has 'always' had it, so it probably means they're giving at least the hit detection a lot more leeway than we're used to in PvE.

I have no idea how fighting against AI in Destiny was actually synched. I mean, there was none of that weird input lag or delayed kill stuff going on with three people in a fireteam. It IS space magic!

Is there something wrong with my hoping for theater mode? You've posted a variation of this before when I've mentioned it, and I don't get why it seems so unreasonable to include the feature, given Bungie's history with it (BTW, it's not a Halo thing. Marathon and Myth had films, too.)

No not at all, and in fact I've never disagreed with you that theater mode is an awesome tool and adds many possibilities to a game.

I've posted a variation of my views because you posted a variation of yours- you opened the discussion :P

Where I think it is unreasonable is that this generation of console offers tools that the previous gen did not, and one of those is video recording (and while it is not as robust as Bungie's theater mode of Halo 3 and Reach, it's still better than the myriad of games that didn't offer it at all)

Second, a good bit of my favorite fan-created content could not have been made with only video capture. Video capture simply does not replace theater mode.

I agree 100% with you.

But that doesn't change my reasoning as to why they may have decided to leave it out.

Lastly, I don't think you understand how films worked. The game engine and assets are what take up space. I'm not saying Destiny doesn't present unique technical hurdles. Halo did, too, else the first two games might have had them.

Perhaps I don't, but on that same token, maybe the way Halo had saved films is not possible in Destiny for the exact same reasons you mentioned, and to expect Bungie to include them just because they did for previous games is unreasonable.

Like I said, if the game is going to have them, we probably would have heard about it by now. Maybe they have other plan. Maybe it will come later as a patch or expansion. Maybe they're testing the waters. I don't know, and neither does anyone else until they tell us.

Forge does not make sense for Destiny.

When a game has a good sandbox, it is unfortunate to limit it to the developer's environments. Forge makes as much sense for Destiny as it did for Halo. There are huge opportunities for community content--Sparrow trick maps full of half pipes, the Vault of Flaming Ninja Glass, custom PvE scenarios, and PvP arenas.

You might not want to Forge, but given the tool, the community would make incredible things with it.

I don't recall saying I didn't want it.

I do recall saying I don't think it applies the same way to Destiny that it did to Halo.

Look a few threads over where people are concerned that Destiny's 4 worlds are too few. Forge is infinite content.

I also lament Titanfall not having Forge, that would be fun with the game's movement mechanics.

PC mods.

What limited tools we get on console are infinitely better than nothing, but those kind of premium features are better suited for PC editing.

----------------------------------------

Maybe these things will come later. Maybe they'll ship with the game this September- again, I don't know, because Bungie won't comment on it (which a month before release, is not a good sign that they'll be included).

At this point, I'm just irritated that we keep looking backward to things that Halo had and the expectation that Destiny must have them.

If you have Kinect you can say "Xbox record that". Done. If you don't have Kinect, well you're boned then aren't you? This also makes sense, because Bungie probably wasn't expecting Microsoft to do a 180 on the mandatory kinect.

Without Kinect, just open/snap the Game DVR app, which will then have the option to record the last 30 seconds of gameplay (or up to the next 5 minutes)

Ah! This is good to know!

Quack Quack! :)

That article was a joke. Literally. It was false.

Forge does not make sense for Destiny.

When a game has a good sandbox, it is unfortunate to limit it to the developer's environments. Forge makes as much sense for Destiny as it did for Halo. There are huge opportunities for community content--Sparrow trick maps full of half pipes, the Vault of Flaming Ninja Glass, custom PvE scenarios, and PvP arenas.

You might not want to Forge, but given the tool, the community would make incredible things with it.

I don't recall saying I didn't want it.

When you say "Forge does not make sense for Destiny" - if you wanted Forge, you would not say things like that.

I do recall saying I don't think it applies the same way to Destiny that it did to Halo.

How? They're both FPS with fantastic sandboxes, competitive multiplayer and singleplayer/coop experiences. There is nothing about Destiny that makes it ineligible for Forge.

So Bungie made Destiny's singleplayer/coop a shared world, irrelevant. You couldn't Forge in Halo's singleplayer/coop either.

Look a few threads over where people are concerned that Destiny's 4 worlds are too few. Forge is infinite content.

I also lament Titanfall not having Forge, that would be fun with the game's movement mechanics.

PC mods.

What limited tools we get on console are infinitely better than nothing, but those kind of premium features are better suited for PC editing.

We're talking about a console game, not a PC game. And Forge did a fantastic job on a console. The existence of PCs does not make console games ineligible for map editors.

----------------------------------------

Maybe these things will come later. Maybe they'll ship with the game this September- again, I don't know, because Bungie won't comment on it (which a month before release, is not a good sign that they'll be included).

At this point, I'm just irritated that we keep looking backward to things that Halo had and the expectation that Destiny must have them.

It's not just Destiny, these (Forge, theater) are great features that any game would benefit from. The fact that Bungie pioneered these features on a console so well in Halo, why shouldn't we optimistically anticipate or desire them in Bungie's next game? I don't see why that irritates you--these are good features for games to have. Do you want a game with less features?

That being said, Tyson Green basically said there will be no Forge in Destiny at launch back in that IGN interview months ago.

It's so vague though. It might mean shot spread for instance. Certainly better guns had tighter spreads. I never felt like I was being killed or not getting a kill because of the net code...

The linked article was fake, c'mon guys, the thread even points that out at the bottom.

Is there something wrong with my hoping for theater mode? You've posted a variation of this before when I've mentioned it, and I don't get why it seems so unreasonable to include the feature, given Bungie's history with it (BTW, it's not a Halo thing. Marathon and Myth had films, too.)

No not at all, and in fact I've never disagreed with you that theater mode is an awesome tool and adds many possibilities to a game.

I've posted a variation of my views because you posted a variation of yours- you opened the discussion :P

The view I expressed is that I doubt Destiny will have theater mode, and we seem to agree on that. I didn't say we're entitled to it, or how dare Bungie not include it! Bungie SUX! OhEmGee! I didn't say including it would be a cakewalk, but it never was, and Bungie has pulled it off before, so it's not unreasonable to hope for it. There's a difference in hoping for it and saying it damn well better have it.

Where I think it is unreasonable is that this generation of console offers tools that the previous gen did not, and one of those is video recording (and while it is not as robust as Bungie's theater mode of Halo 3 and Reach, it's still better than the myriad of games that didn't offer it at all)

I disagree with this. Imagine what could be done with both! I predict that without theater mode we'll get more first-person, Halo-2-style highlight reels set to incredibly crappy music. I've seen enough of those to last a lifetime. For my interests, built-in video capture eliminates the need for Bungie Pro. That's it. (I also don't particularly like having to worry about what to capture while I'm playing.) Neither feature is necessary, but saying that video capture makes theater mode unnecessary is like saying you get a free toaster so an oven is unnecessary. There's more to life than toast.

Second, a good bit of my favorite fan-created content could not have been made with only video capture. Video capture simply does not replace theater mode.

I agree 100% with you.

But that doesn't change my reasoning as to why they may have decided to leave it out.

Your reasoning is speculation. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'll speculate that there are people at Bungie who understand the impact of theater mode on the community and what a force multiplier it is as compared with simple video capture.

Lastly, I don't think you understand how films worked. The game engine and assets are what take up space. I'm not saying Destiny doesn't present unique technical hurdles. Halo did, too, else the first two games might have had them.

Perhaps I don't, but on that same token, maybe the way Halo had saved films is not possible in Destiny for the exact same reasons you mentioned, and to expect Bungie to include them just because they did for previous games is unreasonable.

I never said I expect Bungie to include it because they have before. Odds are better that they would, though, than the odds would be had they never included it before. I've expected it only so far as the last five Bungie games have built on the features that came before, but I'm well aware that this is a different animal. I won't be angry about theater's absence, but I can't be talked out of being disappointed either.

Like I said, if the game is going to have them, we probably would have heard about it by now. Maybe they have other plan. Maybe it will come later as a patch or expansion. Maybe they're testing the waters. I don't know, and neither does anyone else until they tell us.

I agree. I'll remain hopeful until it's confirmed one way or another, and if it's not included this time, I'll hope for it in the sequels.

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I can't find the interview, but Bungie has already said that tools for Destiny might come later, but not on day one. Not the Destiny is Halo, but FYI Halo 1 didn't have forge, it didn't have theater mode, the community still managed to pull off great things like Warthog Jump without it.

Bungie will be on Destiny for at least 10 years. They are one of the most community focused developers out there, and have been since before Halo. I have no doubt that just because we don't have something on Day 1, doesn't mean that they won't provide us with awesome, given time.

I can't find the interview, but Bungie has already said that tools for Destiny might come later, but not on day one. Not the Destiny is Halo, but FYI Halo 1 didn't have forge, it didn't have theater mode, the community still managed to pull off great things like Warthog Jump without it.

Yep, and the bar for video capture and editing was higher (that said, not everyone is as talented as Randall Glass.)

Bungie will be on Destiny for at least 10 years. They are one of the most community focused developers out there, and have been since before Halo. I have no doubt that just because we don't have something on Day 1, doesn't mean that they won't provide us with awesome, given time.

Like I said, I am hopeful.

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