With the paucity of in-game communication, I wonder exactly how you're supposed to get to talk to other players such that you can invite them to join your clan? It would seem that the most efficient way of organising clan activities is to do it out-of-game, via forums etc. When you compare that with how other organised groups (Guilds in WoW, Corporations in EVE for example) have in-game mechanisms for recruitment it does seem a little lacking.

Whilst we're on the subject, if anyone fancies helping me get my initial 4 members to officially rubber stamp my clan, I'd much appreciate it!

One feature I'd love to see them add is the ability to give your clan a custom logo (perhaps with Bungie manually approving them, to prevent people using obscene images etc.). That would definitely be most welcome for those of us with their own logo.

It seems super easy to invite people to your fireteam and then subsequently recruit them without spamming the whole tower that you're recruiting.

When you compare that with how other organised groups (Guilds in WoW, Corporations in EVE for example) have in-game mechanisms for recruitment it does seem a little lacking.

Those games have in-game text chat you can write in with keyboards, no? Much easier to police and tune than voice chat. Less invasive.

On the other hand, The Internet, via PCs and smart phones/tablets, is pretty good for getting people together around a single subject.

E.g. DBO.

Those games have in-game text chat you can write in with keyboards, no? Much easier to police and tune than voice chat. Less invasive.

From this and kidtsunami's replies I'm not sure if you may be misunderstanding the nature of the recruitment process in PC-based MMOs; whilst you can (and people still do) spam the trade channel for recruitment in WoW, there's also a dedicated interface for guild recruitment (and corporation recruitment) in both games. I'm sure it'd be feasible to do something similar in Destiny. Just off the top of my head — if you're flagged as a clan officer then people who aren't in a clan could have an option to request a voice conversation to talk about recruitment with that you. You could also place a clan banner in The Tower whilst stood in one place to indicate that you're looking for recruits. There are all sorts of ways you can advertise that don't involve text-based chat or leaving the game.

Those games have in-game text chat you can write in with keyboards, no? Much easier to police and tune than voice chat. Less invasive.

From this and kidtsunami's replies I'm not sure if you may be misunderstanding the nature of the recruitment process in PC-based MMOs; whilst you can (and people still do) spam the trade channel for recruitment in WoW, there's also a dedicated interface for guild recruitment (and corporation recruitment) in both games. I'm sure it'd be feasible to do something similar in Destiny. Just off the top of my head — if you're flagged as a clan officer then people who aren't in a clan could have an option to request a voice conversation to talk about recruitment with that you. You could also place a clan banner in The Tower whilst stood in one place to indicate that you're looking for recruits. There are all sorts of ways you can advertise that don't involve text-based chat or leaving the game.

I'm confident that those channels are going to be the companion app and bungie.net. I can't think of a way someone could recruit in game without being annoying outside of fireteaming up over the corpse of a spider tank.

People putting up clan banners could get out of hand right quick.

Requesting voice conversation? Just fireteam up while exploring.

I wonder if people will start to use combinations of emotes to begin to indicate intentions (i.e. A Wave Point Point means "I'd like to recruit you")

I'm confident that those channels are going to be the companion app and bungie.net. I can't think of a way someone could recruit in game without being annoying outside of fireteaming up over the corpse of a spider tank.

The problem with those is they're outside the game, and that kind of social interaction really ought to happen inside the game. Viewing stats and having lengthy written conversations make sense as things for a companion app or website, but clan recruitment is one of the pillars of social interaction in a game like this.

People putting up clan banners could get out of hand right quick.

Requesting voice conversation? Just fireteam up while exploring.

If you're already in a fireteam then it makes sense you might talk about recruitment, but the idea with these is that they're something that can happen in the quieter downtime between action in the field; the Tower is perfect for this (especially as there's so little else to do in the Tower anyway!). I'm not sure banners would get too out of hand — The Tower already limits how many people appear at any given time (check your radar vs how many other guardians you can actually see). Also if you have to stay within a short distance of your clan banner or it disappears I'm sure that could help encourage correct usage.

Still, I'm spitballing here — I'm sure there are even better ways to do this.

Edit: forgot to mention; the other purpose of the clan banner is that it reverses the usual recruitment process — rather than catering to players who want to join a clan, it's a mechanism for players who want to recruit people to join their clan. I think the game needs both.

I'm confident that those channels are going to be the companion app and bungie.net. I can't think of a way someone could recruit in game without being annoying outside of fireteaming up over the corpse of a spider tank.

The problem with those is they're outside the game, and that kind of social interaction really ought to happen inside the game. Viewing stats and having lengthy written conversations make sense as things for a companion app or website, but clan recruitment is one of the pillars of social interaction in a game like this.

People putting up clan banners could get out of hand right quick.

Requesting voice conversation? Just fireteam up while exploring.

If you're already in a fireteam then it makes sense you might talk about recruitment, but the idea with these is that they're something that can happen in the quieter downtime between action in the field; the Tower is perfect for this (especially as there's so little else to do in the Tower anyway!). I'm not sure banners would get too out of hand — The Tower already limits how many people appear at any given time (check your radar vs how many other guardians you can actually see). Also if you have to stay within a short distance of your clan banner or it disappears I'm sure that could help encourage correct usage.

Still, I'm spitballing here — I'm sure there are even better ways to do this.

Edit: forgot to mention; the other purpose of the clan banner is that it reverses the usual recruitment process — rather than catering to players who want to join a clan, it's a mechanism for players who want to recruit people to join their clan. I think the game needs both.

I wonder if this could be resolved with a bespoke place outside of the normal path in the Tower (like the couch basement area). You walk up to one of a few available stands and press 'X' to recruit. On a screen behind where you'd be standing it shows your Clan Name, # of members, and provides you an interface for managing voice chat. Then someone can walk up and press X to engage you and you can start chatting. The recruiter can subsequently silence anyone to keep people from just harassing others interested in joining a clan.

Given how ridiculously slick everything else in Destiny is, I imagine this is a tough problem for them to solve appropriately.

I wonder if this could be resolved with a bespoke place outside of the normal path in the Tower (like the couch basement area). You walk up to one of a few available stands and press 'X' to recruit. On a screen behind where you'd be standing it shows your Clan Name, # of members, and provides you an interface for managing voice chat. Then someone can walk up and press X to engage you and you can start chatting. The recruiter can subsequently silence anyone to keep people from just harassing others interested in joining a clan.

Given how ridiculously slick everything else in Destiny is, I imagine this is a tough problem for them to solve appropriately.

That could work, although I'd argue it ought to be somewhere a little more prominent. There are plenty of open spaces where people could stand around to do this currently, with the Tower feeling so quiet.

Out of interest, what information about a player's clan can you view in-game? Is any of that shown if you inspect a player?

The problem with those is they're outside the game, and that kind of social interaction really ought to happen inside the game. Viewing stats and having lengthy written conversations make sense as things for a companion app or website, but clan recruitment is one of the pillars of social interaction in a game like this.

Sure, and the Halo games had insignia and nameplates that could only be activated by going outside the game (or by even playing entirely different titles!), as well. This is a non-issue. Expecting players to go outside the game to use additional functionality isn't enough of a barrier to entry that it's going to keep people from joining clans.

Edit: forgot to mention; the other purpose of the clan banner is that it reverses the usual recruitment process — rather than catering to players who want to join a clan, it's a mechanism for players who want to recruit people to join their clan. I think the game needs both.

I wonder if this could be resolved with a bespoke place outside of the normal path in the Tower (like the couch basement area). You walk up to one of a few available stands and press 'X' to recruit. On a screen behind where you'd be standing it shows your Clan Name, # of members, and provides you an interface for managing voice chat. Then someone can walk up and press X to engage you and you can start chatting. The recruiter can subsequently silence anyone to keep people from just harassing others interested in joining a clan.

But wouldn't that limit the clans you could join by who is in the same instance with you? Some clans would get more exposure simply by having more members or simply members in the right places (geographically).

~m

Sure, and the Halo games had insignia and nameplates that could only be activated by going outside the game (or by even playing entirely different titles!), as well. This is a non-issue. Expecting players to go outside the game to use additional functionality isn't enough of a barrier to entry that it's going to keep people from joining clans.

You say that with a kind of certainty, but my experience is that this kind of usability hurdle actually shuts a lot of people out. What is likely to happen is that the most hardcore (anyone who regularly visits DBO automatically fits into this category) will jump through all the hoops to ensure they can be in a clan. The remainder might be less inclined to do so if they find it confusing or aren't clear on the benefits. Putting these features outside of the game means they have to switch contexts (who knows, maybe they don't even own a smartphone or computer?) and that immediately sets up obstacles.

It's important to remember that a game like Destiny is going to be played by literally millions of people. Will all or even the majority of these players fall into the kind of internet-savvy, visits-bungie.net-regularly demographic? I'm not certain they will.

By the way, people saying things like this is a non-issue is a bugbear of mine; just because something isn't important to you doesn't mean it's not important.

But wouldn't that limit the clans you could join by who is in the same instance with you? Some clans would get more exposure simply by having more members or simply members in the right places (geographically).

That's a possibility. You're not guaranteed visibility outside of your particular instance with this idea, but like I say: I'm spitballing ;)

It's important to remember that a game like Destiny is going to be played by literally millions of people. Will all or even the majority of these players fall into the kind of internet-savvy, visits-bungie.net-regularly demographic? I'm not certain they will.

But what's the overlap of people who WANT to be in a clan, but wouldn't use Bungie.net? You don't need to visit often to get in the clan...

EDIT: but I would like to be able to see who from the Clan is online from in-game.

TBF, this is the only time since 2004 that Bungie have developed a Clan system for their game and it's already much better than the extra-friendslist hack of yesteryear :P

As a total novice to all things MMO-like, I'm not sure I fully understand the whole clam thing.

I've always figured they act as an additional friends list for like-minded folks that you can opt into, rather than having to invite everyone individually. Which is why I've signed up with Clan DBO.

But with talk of recruiting and explaining benefits to potential hires, I feel like Im missing something important? Can anyone help me out and tell me what I'm missing?

Out of interest, what information about a player's clan can you view in-game? Is any of that shown if you inspect a player?

i've been wondering this. Is there any way in-game to see your clan, see who's online etc.?

Otherwise I dont really get the point. But that might be cause I dont totally understand clans yet (see 'Im curious' below)

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From what I can tell, it's a means of setting up an umbrella organisation that pulls in multiple clans.

I wonder if people will start to use combinations of emotes to begin to indicate intentions (i.e. A Wave Point Point means "I'd like to recruit you")

lol - I hope not. I get the emote I'm looking for wrong close to 100% of the time (I sit when I mean to wave, dance when I mean to point) - if people start stringing them together to mean stuff, I'm going to end up insulting someone's mom totally accidentally.

But what's the overlap of people who WANT to be in a clan, but wouldn't use Bungie.net? You don't need to visit often to get in the clan...

For me that isn't the pertinent question; the question for me is: what engaging experiences can the game offer to players, and how can that be encouraged? The social aspect of Destiny is pretty key, but the game itself seems to have pretty poorly-developed social-interaction systems built-in. Clans are just one way that you can encourage players to have a good time playing socially, but if you canvassed the average game player on the street they might not realise that.

lol - I hope not. I get the emote I'm looking for wrong close to 100% of the time (I sit when I mean to wave, dance when I mean to point) - if people start stringing them together to mean stuff, I'm going to end up insulting someone's mom totally accidentally.

I do this all the time too. I'm wondering if the mocked-up UI that's been floating about Reddit (where pushing a d-pad button triggers an on-screen overlay first) might be more practical, as well as offering the possibility of more emote options.

lol - I hope not. I get the emote I'm looking for wrong close to 100% of the time (I sit when I mean to wave, dance when I mean to point) - if people start stringing them together to mean stuff, I'm going to end up insulting someone's mom totally accidentally.

I do this all the time too. I'm wondering if the mocked-up UI that's been floating about Reddit (where pushing a d-pad button triggers an on-screen overlay first) might be more practical, as well as offering the possibility of more emote options.

Heh - I think I'd like the overlay (at least for a while)... but I'm not sure about more options. They're really designed to be quick 'hey there' type things; trying to build an actual communication tool might become unwieldy quickly.

I wonder if people will start to use combinations of emotes to begin to indicate intentions (i.e. A Wave Point Point means "I'd like to recruit you")

lol - I hope not. I get the emote I'm looking for wrong close to 100% of the time (I sit when I mean to wave, dance when I mean to point) - if people start stringing them together to mean stuff, I'm going to end up insulting someone's mom totally accidentally.

Haha yeah, I always want point to be "up"

Haha yeah, I always want point to be "up"

it is when you're on your sparrow, just to confuse matters further

As a total novice to all things MMO-like, I'm not sure I fully understand the whole clam thing.

I've always figured they act as an additional friends list for like-minded folks that you can opt into, rather than having to invite everyone individually. Which is why I've signed up with Clan DBO.

But with talk of recruiting and explaining benefits to potential hires, I feel like Im missing something important? Can anyone help me out and tell me what I'm missing?

For now with Destiny it's not clear what benefits we'll get from being in a clan, but I have to expect they've got some features lined up for later. If we look at how other games handle clans/guilds/corporations, there are some no-brainers; having a dedicated social group for doing group-based activities (be that PvP matches, Strikes or the larger, as-yet unseen Raids). There are also often benefits to being in a clan that go beyond these, such as clan-only rewards, bonuses and quests/missions. I'm sure that's the kind of thing that we'll get in the future.

One thing that's worth remembering with a lot of the features of Destiny is that this is a game series that potentially will last at least a decade, and will see a lot of iteration, but the important thing is to lay the foundations for that iteration. Clans are one thing that even if to begin with doesn't offer much, they can always do more with in future.

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A meta-clan, if you will.

Heh - I think I'd like the overlay (at least for a while)... but I'm not sure about more options. They're really designed to be quick 'hey there' type things; trying to build an actual communication tool might become unwieldy quickly.

Here is the full info graphic somebody posted on reddit which outlines how it could work. I definitely feel like we're missing some of the communication commands like ‘sorry’, ‘thank you’ and ‘you're welcome’.

Haha yeah, I always want point to be "up"

Me too! Crazy that they didn't put it there.

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I was under the assumption alliances are just listed affiliated other clans

Ex: more like this:

DBO - TSD - KSP

and less like this:

1.DBO
a.TSD
b.KSP

Recruiting for clans is not taken seriously in Destiny because clans are not taken seriously. The only real function clans have is to be a "second friends list" so you have a larger pool of (trusted) people to party up with. In-game you would recruit for your clan in the same way you recruit for your friends list: play with someone, enjoy it, kick them an invite.

Not specifically, but it appears so.

Oh that's cool. So we could have DBO as an umbrella then what, separate clans for different types of activity preferences?

Yeah, pre-existing member clans could roll-up into an alliance, with DBO as the governing? party and organise activities etc. that way.

I wonder if people will start to use combinations of emotes to begin to indicate intentions (i.e. A Wave Point Point means "I'd like to recruit you")

lol - I hope not. I get the emote I'm looking for wrong close to 100% of the time (I sit when I mean to wave, dance when I mean to point) - if people start stringing them together to mean stuff, I'm going to end up insulting someone's mom totally accidentally.

Haha yeah, I always want point to be "up"

This is actually one of the things I'm to mention in my Beta review. Sit is down... that makes sense, but then why isn't point up?

Emotes are serious business yo.

http://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Detail/146776

Video coming shortly

I wonder if people will start to use combinations of emotes to begin to indicate intentions (i.e. A Wave Point Point means "I'd like to recruit you")

lol - I hope not. I get the emote I'm looking for wrong close to 100% of the time (I sit when I mean to wave, dance when I mean to point) - if people start stringing them together to mean stuff, I'm going to end up insulting someone's mom totally accidentally.

I know right?! Can you imagine the embarrasment/hilarity when you bunt and the person was totally giving the sign for hit and run? You'd probably be benched pretty quickly!

- CC EL OH EL

Recruiting for clans is not taken seriously in Destiny because clans are not taken seriously.

How do you know that? Maybe clans play a huge role in completing certain activities like the RAID.

Recruiting for clans is not taken seriously in Destiny because clans are not taken seriously.

How do you know that? Maybe clans play a huge role in completing certain activities like the RAID.

We've got precious little information about how raids work yet, but if they have very hard encounters and significantly better loot than strikes it stands to reason that you'll need an organised group to do them, and that organised group will want the rewards that go along with it. Clans would definitely come into their own there.

I don't see any reason why you'd need individual actions for:

• Loot here!
  
• Passage here!
  
• Strong enemies!
  
• Check this out!

If you're staring at an important in-game item, using the standard 'point' should just switch to:

• Player1 points to a Dead Ghost.
  
• Player1 points to a Golden Loot Crate.
  
• Player1 points to a Spinmetal Plant
  
• Player1 points to Raksis, Devil Archon (5)
  
• etc...

It already does this when you're pointing at another player. e.g.

• Player1 points to Player2

I'd love for the point function to be a quick spot function during combat (loved that in Gears and Battlefield). It'd allow randoms in Strikes to coordinate which leg to fire on the Devil Walker, for example.

I really want point to have a general waypoint in the direction of the point, kinda like Portal 2.

Possible problem with pointing at loot. IIRC loot is handled separately on each console. That's good because it doesn't create a race to see who gets the good stuff, but bad in that what you see may not be what anyone else will see. Pointing to spinmetal someone else has already harvested, for example, wouldn't make sense to that person's console.

Pointing to hostiles, drops, and landmarks however would be excellent.

-- Steve would like some more context sensitivity in the emotes; it's embarrassing to receive a salute and then respond with either a wave or the funky chicken.

I don't see any reason why you'd need individual actions for:

• Loot here!
  
• Passage here!
  
• Strong enemies!
  
• Check this out!

If you're staring at an important in-game item, using the standard 'point' should just switch to:

The trouble is this requires you to aim in a specific direction, which is a lot slower than just tapping a d-pad twice.

Maybe! With my limited knowledge based on what I've seen so far, I'm agreeing with Schooly. We could be dead wrong, though.

I ask you, why, then, for this big social shared world shooter with clans and alliances, are your squads maxed out at three players? Why can you only go into Crucible with six? Multiplayer needs some massive expansion.

If the three thing is the only limit for story and the world itself, okay, whatever. But I'm hoping they have some vastly expanded multiplayer options for Big Team type situations. Or maybe I have a group of 16 friends or 16 clan members on, and we want to go into Control or Slayer or whatever and throw down. It'd be great to go in with that whole group of 16, like in Halo or other shooters, and have the game randomly assign teams for us to battle. I'm hoping the final game supports this stuff. These things are far too limited for something that's supposed to be big and social and wow.

Especially with Ghosts and Golden Chests, since they're one-time-only for each Guardian, AFAIK

I ask you, why, then, for this big social shared world shooter with clans and alliances, are your squads maxed out at three players?

Any more than that, and areas wouldn't scale well. Take 8 people in and clean up. Destiny does not add enemies as player count increases like many games do, so more players makes it easier. I'm guessing this is because in terms of networking, syncing all those AI guys would be prohibitive.

We can't even choose whatever server we're dropped in. I'm playing at this very moment with eight buddies. We split up our group into squads, are in a party chat, and tried to all go into the Exploration mode at the exact same time. And no one but our actual squadmates appeared with us. That really sucks. So much for playing with your friends or clan, even if said friends/clan are "randoms" in your world.

Explore should really have the limit raised to 6. I don't see how it would hurt the experience since you've got that many people in public areas anyway. Just let all those people be friends hanging out and goofing off. Story and Strikes could stay at 3.

Then again, I guess starting a raid will let us have some 6 player coop, but I suspect we may not have full explore capabilities during a raid.

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Bringing a whole party into Crucible would let you run some experiments too.

E.g. Measure the differences between the classes, test the benefits of stat boosts, hell even test a build or weapon for multiplayer suitability.