on the social medias.

I have no idea what it means. Maybe there's a date in there somewhere.

https://x.com/MarathonTheGame/status/1907840558544072722

Finally something to talk about! Sadly I have nothing to contribute...but excited that SOMETHING is out. I don't have X so no idea what the comments are.

There's some kind of ARG happening, and this was found:

And a second. This one is a more familiar tune.

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Every time, man. Really looking forward to seeing what they've got up their sleeves on the 12th.

Also, having to slog through Discord for the ARG this past weekend has me longing for the days of Bungie.org forums. I find it so difficult to find "community" in those kind of high-noise environments.

<3

I realize it’s just old man yelling at clouds, but discord straight up sucks. Every company and community ditched forums and made a discord channel and it’s just awful.

I realize it’s just old man yelling at clouds, but discord straight up sucks. Every company and community ditched forums and made a discord channel and it’s just awful.

It might be time to abandon the internet soon.

I'm technically on Discord (mainly to keep up with various communities -- including the Marathon Discord!), but God, do I hate using it.

And as much of a lurker as I have been in every forum I've ever joined (including this one), I don't think I've ever posted anything in a Discord server.

I'm technically on Discord (mainly to keep up with various communities -- including the Marathon Discord!), but God, do I hate using it.

And as much of a lurker as I have been in every forum I've ever joined (including this one), I don't think I've ever posted anything in a Discord server.

I don't even know what Discord is...and at this point, don't feel like I need to. This place is my only source of information for these things.

I'm technically on Discord (mainly to keep up with various communities -- including the Marathon Discord!), but God, do I hate using it.

I am, too, through some patreons that I subscribe to. About once a year I remember that fact, open discord, look at it for approximately 45 seconds, realize it's a fucking nightmare hellscape, close it and forget about it again for another year.

It's weird, because I used to live on IRC in the Halo 2 days with the Forerunner clan. I'm not sure if it's just age and me being less inclined to just be sitting in front of a computer for no real reason (which I still do occasionally, but not like I did twenty years ago), or if discord is actually substantially different somehow. I hate it, either way, so I guess it doesn't really matter. I suppose the difference is that IRC was a supplement to an incredibly active forum at HBO (and the Forerunners made their own site and forum, too), versus discord often being the only community available for some things.

They've been pouring on the coals with this ARG. Can't wait to see what they've been cooking up tomorrow and chatting about it w/ everyone. For now, though... bed.

See you starside.

Can’t help it.

They've been pouring on the coals with this ARG. Can't wait to see what they've been cooking up tomorrow and chatting about it w/ everyone. For now, though... bed.

See you starside.

They'd better bring back the vacbobs.

This is kind of a big deal for me. I want to have another huge game franchise in my life. Marathon might be the one...

This gameplay reveal will decide the next few years of my ever-dwindling gaming life.

I have likes and dislikes with Discord. I think overall it's better then Slack - especially for communities. But it's different than a message board and a lot of pai comes from people trying to make it work like one. It is more ephemeral, for one thing, which is a loss compared to MBs.

As an example, talking about this live event would work better on Discord then here.

And the voice chat across platforms is better through Discord than Destiny.

https://www.marathonthegame.com/

I gotta say, in engine while the game is going it does NOT really look that great. The pre-release stuff was bold, colorful, and dynamic with light and highlights.. But this reveal? It was flat, the colors were understated, and it just didn’t look at all like the other trailers. Everything was matte, and there didn’t seem to be any texture! All the more apparent when it’s followed by a hyper stylized film.

It’s the alpha, but still.

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I gotta say, in engine while the game is going it does NOT really look that great. The pre-release stuff was bold, colorful, and dynamic with light and highlights.. But this reveal? It was flat, the colors were understated, and it just didn’t look at all like the other trailers. Everything was matte, and there didn’t seem to be any texture! All the more apparent when it’s followed by a hyper stylized film.

It’s the alpha, but still.

I hear you. I need to watch it again. What did you think of the film? I thought it was fantastic. Reminded me a lot of Aeon Flux.

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Why is it called Marathon? Besides the obvious name recognition, is there even a reason? The story isn't even written yet, five months from release. This kinda seems like a train wreck already.

Why is it called Marathon? Besides the obvious name recognition, is there even a reason? The story isn't even written yet, five months from release. This kinda seems like a train wreck already.

Where’d you pull that from? A number of the Creator videos directly contradict that entire statement/question. Just because they’re keeping things under wraps doesn’t mean it’s not there… This is still closed-Alpha, after all.

Basically every content creator who got to play it and made a video about it said they were told by Bungie that they have not written the story for the game yet. Lots of people on reddit are talking about it. I can’t pretend like I’ve seen Bungie themselves say that because I’m not on any platform they make statements on. Skill Up made a video where I first heard that, I think Lupo said the same thing.

That sounds... not good.

But I want to know where you're getting that from before I start to worry.

I do agree with this somewhat, but:

1. I still think it looks good -- just not as good as the CG teaser made it look.

and

2. The game itself appears to be very fun, which is what matters most.

That's disconcerting.

So I don't know about the rest of you, but I came away from that preview feeling pretty excited for this game. The reaction online does not seem to match up with my own reaction in a lot of places. I'll briefly go through pros and cons as I see them:

PROS

1. The game looks incredibly fun. I don't know a lot about extraction shooters, so I was going into this reveal with fresh eyes and an open mind. It looks amazing. I love the tension of the concept -- the need to stay alive and extract from the LZ at all costs -- and I love what we've seen and heard of the gunplay.

2. Maybe a minority opinion, but I like the "hero" approach to runners. It's like choosing a class or something. Does every game need to be a hyper-specific customization nightmare? I really don't think so. Instead, you get to know the strengths and weaknesses or each runner so that you can pick the right one for any given mission.

3. Weapon sandbox looks great. I know they've been honing the balance very carefully through extensive playtesting. That's a great sign.

4. Dynamic weather that impacts gameplay? Whoa! I've always wanted that in a first-person shooter. In a more general sense as well, I really like the fact that this seems to be a truly living world in a much more tangible way than Destiny ever was.

5. I'm hearing very good things about faction and alliance systems in-game and that's super compelling to me. Another Destiny concept that was never quite realized -- now executed upon for Marathon.

CONS

1. Apparently the story hasn't been written yet? Not sure where this is coming from, as I'm only hearing about it here and have not been able to find a source for the information... but if true, that is a major red flag. Probably the single most worrying thing I've heard about this game. We're five months from launch, guys.

2. No PvE campaign mode. Look, I get it. I know it's not that type of game. They're wanting to commit fully to the extraction shooter idea. Still, I can't help but feel some disappointment in this area. I wouldn't expect a PvE campaign to be the main event here, but it'd still be nice to have it. The lack of Pfhor is an interesting design choice and I've been seeing a lot of criticism online, but to be honest, in light of the fact that we don't have a PvE mode anyway, I'm not sure it bothers me. If we did have a PvE mode, but still without Pfhor, then I might feel differently -- but that is not the case here.

3. The art style doesn't look quite as good as I was hoping it would in-engine. I still think the style itself is amazing, and it does look good in-engine, but it's not as clean or poppy as I was expecting it to be based on the CG preview and concept art from last year. Cody said it best: It feels much too flat and understated. Certain objects and enemies also seem difficult to read based on the footage we've seen, particularly in low-light areas, which is uh... not necessarily good for gameplay (unless that's what they're going for in those areas).

4. I'm really sorry to have to mention this because it's not actually a con for me, but I feel like it's going to be a significant hurdle for Bungie. $40 seems pretty steep for a PvP-only title. Players of that genre have grown accustomed to free-to-play monetization, so I am fearful that Marathon's price point will make it very difficult for Bungie to achieve any significant market penetration.

To be fair, I’m not sure how much that matters. They also described a bit of how the storytelling will work, and it really sounds like it’s mostly just going to be lore blurb based. Item descriptions and such. Like, I don’t think it’s going to have many cutscenes with actual characters you know.

That's even more disconcerting. Lore =/= story. Don't get me wrong, I love lore. A game like this needs to have a rich lore, and it sounds like that's exactly what it's got, so that's great... but lore is meaningless without a great story at its core to lend it weight and context. There is simply no substitute for actual honest-to-God storytelling. No shortcut. This sounds like the Grimoire all over again.

Man... fuck. Why can't this company figure out how to be consistent with story? This game looks so fun and I really want to be excited for it, but without a story? I don't know...

3. The art style doesn't look quite as good as I was hoping it would in-engine. I still think the style itself is amazing, and it does look good in-engine, but it's not as clean or poppy as I was expecting it to be based on the CG preview and concept art from last year. Cody said it best: It feels much too flat and understated. Certain objects and enemies also seem difficult to read based on the footage we've seen, particularly in low-light areas, which is uh... not necessarily good for gameplay (unless that's what they're going for in those areas).

All the stranger, when they bring out art from Craig Mullins, and specifically highlight how he visually defined marathon. Then they go and create a game that looks nothing like what he did. They even put his piece beside two others from the current team, and there is no resemblance at all but for the pose.

Why do that when the game doesn't look like this?

I'm not saying that the game has to look any certain way (as I said before, I quite liked what the earlier trailers did), but if you're going for something new why not just own it instead of bringing out art from the OG Trilogy that has nothing to do with your current game?

This isn't so much a con for me as it is a point of confusion, but I think it might be playing a role in the way the art style is being realized in-engine, so it's worth mentioning:

Why are they still using Tiger after all these years? Isn't it, like, ridiculously cumbersome and difficult to use? Supposedly? Wasn't this a major stated reason for the company's chronic difficulties with making content for Destiny?

I think it's very possible that the Tiger engine just isn't equipped to do justice to this art style. That seems like something that could probably be addressed with further development and a general overhaul of the rendering engine -- but do we think they've done that here?

I've learned my lesson well enough that it's premature to write this off at this point.

I think the presentation itself was what was most lacking. As someone who has never played an extraction shooter, I still have no idea what the hook is - what you actually DO. I understand you go down, complete Patrol-like missions to earn money from your corporate / faction sponsor. I understand that you grab loot from the world and other players.

But like… why?

What is there to DO with that loot? Back in the days of Diablo 2, there were super hard optional monsters and bosses you could fight. So, you chased gear in order to conquer them. Hell difficulty was brutal, so you had to gear up to complete it. In Destiny, you chased gear so you could to the Raids, Dungeons, special events, whatever.

Bungie highlighted nothing to indicate that this loop goes anywhere beyond itself. Is this the entire game? What else is there to do? Are there 3 person Dungeons in this world that need conquering like in Destiny?

We have no idea.

Obviously they shouldn't spoil everything about their game, but I see nothing to indicate what will actually be available to DO besides the loot / extract / repeat loops.

What's the point? If there's more, why was it not explained? If there isn't, then what exactly is there to this game?

When the 'creators' were playing the game, I had no idea what I was seeing or what they were doing. It looked like they were just shooting stuff. Okay… but what's the context? Sell me on why this game is unique.

When you saw the Halo 2 E3 2003 demo, you knew exactly what the game was going to be about. You knew exactly why you wanted the game, and why it was going to be awesome. I cannot understate how much that reveal left the audience desperately wanting the game. We don't even need to speak about the legendary Halo 1999 demo.

For all the bells and whistles - the audience, the studio, the ARG, the flying in of streamers, this presentation failed to live up to the ones Bungie used to do where the game just spoke for itself.

I'm walking away less hype, and with no more idea of this game than I did before. It's still just an 'extraction shooter'.

The one thing we can judge right now is the story and how it will be handled. Not even being written yet, the seasonal presentation. It's going to be bullshit. It's going to be piecemeal lore drops with no actual solid narrative to bring us through. Nothing will reach critical mass. Why are you even bringing out the narrative director on the stream, when she hasn't even written the narrative yet?! Why is Bungie pretending this will be a good story instead of just being honest? It's just all going to be flavor for a game driven whose focus is absolutely not the story. They are going to give you the Grimoire from Destiny.

The problem isn't that. Marathon could be an absolute blast to play. The problem is hyping up the narrative and connection to the original game when it has zero chance to deliver in this way. It's creating expectations it cannot possibly meet.

I don't want to sound like someone stuck in the past… but this presentation just reminded me of what Bungie has lost. Their videos used to be… well magical for lack of a better word. There was an art to them. Even the edited videos they played for Marathon were completely soulless. Ben Starr explains and tells us about the game over forgettable music and poorly edited footage of the game, instead of letting us see it, FEEL IT, for ourselves.

If I don't feel that Bungie themselves has any sense of awe about their game, how can we?

This is really a condemnation of the reveal. The game could be amazing, it could be shit. We don't know yet.

I admit to being disappointed, despite already anticipating that I would not be playing Marathon anyway. Like, despite all my issues with the direction Bungie took Destiny, I was interested in seeing them tackle an extraction shooter. Those games are extremely fun and tense and thrilling, but they lack long term stakes and goals. We obviously don’t know everything and maybe Bungie will figure it out, but I haven’t seen any real indication that they have.

I do think it’ll be fun, and maybe even something special. I can imagine cool scenarios. Can you imagine having to complete the equivalent of a toned down Dungeon or Raid encounter while also contending with possible PvP encounters? Because I can, and it sounds awesome. And maybe that won’t happen either, but that’s where my mind goes when I think about Bungie making an extraction shooter.

At the end of the day, I’m just out because of what we all know it’ll be. A $40 game, with $20 seasons, $20 skins, lord only knows what else. I’m not paying $100 again to grind out daily objectives. It’s just not an appealing prospect anymore.

The game itself looks amazing. I'm a lot more positive on that aspect of it than the rest of the Internet appears to be. Honestly, the lack of story isn't even a problem in and of itself but for the fact that Bungie is advertising this as a game with a strong story component. I just don't see that... especially not when we're five months out and nothing has even been written.

One thing's for sure, though: This reveal failed to achieve its objective. If you're five months out from launch and you don't have a story yet, maybe don't mention that to the public. Play that one a little closer to the vest, yeah? The marketing team at Bungie has a lot of work to do over the next five months.

At the end of the day, I’m just out because of what we all know it’ll be. A $40 game, with $20 seasons, $20 skins, lord only knows what else.

Do we know this? We only know it will cost something, but not be full priced. We don't know if seasons will cost money. We don't know how expensive cosmetics will be.

But like… why?

That has always been the problem with extraction shooters. Every single one of them. The loop is the game, that’s it. No greater goal or purpose, nothing to really work towards. I kinda thought Bungie might be the ones to finally solve that problem, but I’ve seen no indication they have.

Maybe that’s not a problem. That loop is fun on its own . . . for a while. But I’m not sure it has the staying power Destiny did without something else, because that loop gets stale with no greater purpose.

Cheap was speculating. The game costs $40 for sure, though, and I think that price point is going to present a significant hurdle to market penetration.

We don’t know anything, but we’ve seen Destiny over the last decade, so let’s be real. We know it’s paid but not full price, so $40 seems a safe bet. We know it has a paid battle pass and monetized skins, but not how much they’ll cost, but do you honestly think they’ll be cheaper than their Destiny counterparts?

I’d love to be proven wrong, this isn’t just me bitching about Bungie. It’s just a realistic assessment of what’s going to happen.

I gotta say, in engine while the game is going it does NOT really look that great. The pre-release stuff was bold, colorful, and dynamic with light and highlights.. But this reveal? It was flat, the colors were understated, and it just didn’t look at all like the other trailers. Everything was matte, and there didn’t seem to be any texture! All the more apparent when it’s followed by a hyper stylized film.

It’s the alpha, but still.

I hear you. I need to watch it again. What did you think of the film? I thought it was fantastic. Reminded me a lot of Aeon Flux.

Yeah, it was rad.

Except she didn't turn into a gym bag in the end when she was killed. Not canon to the game lol.

But like… why?

That has always been the problem with extraction shooters. Every single one of them. The loop is the game, that’s it. No greater goal or purpose, nothing to really work towards. I kinda thought Bungie might be the ones to finally solve that problem, but I’ve seen no indication they have.

Maybe that’s not a problem. That loop is fun on its own . . . for a while. But I’m not sure it has the staying power Destiny did without something else, because that loop gets stale with no greater purpose.

That's the key.

I could get lost in the crucible for a while, but if that were the entire game I'd have put Destiny down long before I did. I'd never buy a game like Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament these days. For me, the multiplayer component has to be a part of a greater whole. I just can't imagine doing the same thing over and over with there being nothing else…

In a way, multiplayer only shooters are casual games in the sense that you'd get bored with them if you played them too much, as you describe. This is probably why modern ones use loot boxes, battle passes, and other things to give you extrinsic motivations to keep playing.

Cheap was speculating. The game costs $40 for sure, though, and I think that price point is going to present a significant hurdle to market penetration.

Where was this stated officially?

Poor phrasing on my part. My bad. I didn't mean that the $40 price point has been announced officially. I meant that there's no way the price point is anything but $40.

Strictly referring to the reveal, I had exactly three thoughts:

1. What does this have to do with Marathon beyond them needing a brand to slap on their extraction shooter?
2. I like the way it looks, but I have no feel for how it plays.
3. Did they really just slap the Marathon brand on it to try to get it to sell instead of starting with a fresh IP name?

It is a failure of a presentation (for me) when two of my three thoughts were more about branding decisions than what I actually saw. I’ve also had the opportunity to talk to multiple people who never played Marathon and know nothing about it, and while that’s a small sample size and might not mean much, not a single person would try the game after what they saw unless it was free to play. That’s unfortunate, because that means that people I play plenty of other games with (and others who I haven’t played things with in quite a while) are showing no interest based on this reveal.

As with all things, I suppose time will tell what’s in store for this game, how fun it is, and its staying power.

All this and also there is still quite a lot of neon/high vis color going on.

Poor phrasing on my part. My bad. I didn't mean that the $40 price point has been announced officially. I meant that there's no way the price point is anything but $40.

I'd doubt that.

Concord was a massive disaster at $40. Do you think Sony would risk 3.6 billion dollars by repeating the same mistake?

Yes.

Although after that reveal, with the reaction I'm seeing online, they might be re-thinking it. $40 is going to be a massive challenge no matter how you slice it. The game just can't compete with FTP offerings at that price point, period. Making it a "premium" title at all is putting it at a competitive disadvantage.

I don't think it will be a grind any more than Halo Reach MP was "grinding" every day. There is gear, but you won't keep it for more than a couple of rounds. You can think of season progression/battle pass as grinding, I suppose, but I think it is meaningfully different.

I do think people should think of this as an MP game with some (literal) bots thrown in.

This will likely have a better story than Apex, and certainly the existing extraction shooters or most BR games, but not nearly as much narrative as Bungie games have before or especially as the expectation that people on THIS site have for the name Marathon.

I have several feelings. The first is that I am disappointed that this is not Marathon 4. Or, any story/narrative game with a campaign.
Also, though, I've seen Bungie struggle to bring a narrative to the seasonal live game model and the results were mixed at best. Even at a fundamental level, I do have room in my life for something that was faster to get in and out of than Destiny (the first 30-60 minutes of playing is just admin work, and I often don't even know what I should be doing with my time).

I worry that I won't like how HARDCORE MULTI Bungie is talking about the game. I don't know if I can really hang with that as a filthy casual. I worry that it's another game that really wants groups of 3 as I have found that an award number to try to hit a usually has too few or too many to form groups.

But like… why?

That has always been the problem with extraction shooters. Every single one of them. The loop is the game, that’s it. No greater goal or purpose, nothing to really work towards. I kinda thought Bungie might be the ones to finally solve that problem, but I’ve seen no indication they have.

Maybe that’s not a problem. That loop is fun on its own . . . for a while. But I’m not sure it has the staying power Destiny did without something else, because that loop gets stale with no greater purpose.

That's the key.

I could get lost in the crucible for a while, but if that were the entire game I'd have put Destiny down long before I did. I'd never buy a game like Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament these days. For me, the multiplayer component has to be a part of a greater whole. I just can't imagine doing the same thing over and over with there being nothing else…

In a way, multiplayer only shooters are casual games in the sense that you'd get bored with them if you played them too much, as you describe. This is probably why modern ones use loot boxes, battle passes, and other things to give you extrinsic motivations to keep playing.

There’s a lot of truth regarding loot boxes and other Skinner box techniques that try to get people addicted or coming back for more beyond whether the game itself is fun, but I think you’re discounting how many people are motivated by having a great experience with their friends. Over and over again. Like Halo multiplayer for hours and hours on end with no benefit beyond just trying to win. Battle Royale games provide similar motivations, even from people who don’t care about battle passes, skins, etc. People want to win and literally be the last person/team standing. And they’re fine doing that over and over and over again, and they have fun doing it. Strategizing where to land, how to hold buildings or build new ones, and out-skilling opponents.

If Bungie has figured out a way to make this genre more accessible, maybe “easier” while still allowing for a high skill ceiling, and opens it up to a console audience in a way that hasn’t been done before, Marathon could be a surprise success. I’m personally skeptical about this being the case, but I can see it happening.

I've seen other people say this, and I understand why and the market, but also I think requiring money for the game also opens up a market of people who don't want to support the way F2P games cause players and dev teams to be treated. Also, there is a mixed benefit of self selection that happens when the game costs money. Things like abuse and cheating enforcement can become more meaningful too. Sucks for people who can't afford it, but that's a broader conversation about capitalism.

But, all of that said, that's only meaningful if you care more about game quality and stability than growth of playerbase, and even then nothing is guaranteed.

I think they were also going off the wide glass shield of the helmet.

I get that & even agree with it on a personal level, but honestly, it's too philosophical for the market. Especially in this economy, where people are having trouble affording things so are looking for value at every turn.

There’s a lot of truth regarding loot boxes and other Skinner box techniques that try to get people addicted or coming back for more beyond whether the game itself is fun, but I think you’re discounting how many people are motivated by having a great experience with their friends. Over and over again. Like Halo multiplayer for hours and hours on end with no benefit beyond just trying to win.

Not at all. That's the quintessential 'casual' experience.

The quotes I have read have Bungie calling it a "story engine" in the sense that it is a tool and medium for forming stories with your friends. I think they have said the same about Destiny, but here it makes more sense to me (While I am still dubious in ways). I spent days or probably weeks of time in Halo with my friends and friends I made through the game (some of them here) and never felt left out because I had not caught up on the latest story drops, or didn't have the team I needed to get a meta weapon, or had to take a break for a week because bad balance was destroying crucible.

I don't want every game to be like Marathon (I may not want Marathon at all, we will see) but I also don't need every game to absorb my whole gaming life, as Destiny has for 10 years. I am playing the Indiana jones game and have been for months, because that's the kind of time in my life I have for big story games. I'm glad they exist, and I like them more than the MP focused games, but I also still appreciate things like Halo3/4/R and Titanfall, and Fall Guys, and even Apex to a point, where there are a limited number of variables and a short time barrier to fun, and it can be consumed in more digestible chunks.

And I thought I was going to say LESS than I did upthread…

That’s what I don’t get. How much power does the Marathon brand actually have. Hardcore gamers know what Marathon is, but most of them haven’t played it and I can’t imagine it brings a whole lot of excitement to be connected to that old series in whatever way. Like, if you’re going to bring the Marathon name back, why use it for this in particular?

The truth is the two strategies that work in down markets is to cut to the bone to lower price and burn up goodwill to try to make it until there is something you can jump to later and to go upmarket where people are less price sensitive and margins can accommodate it.

But, the latter is much harder as a road and has a lower success ratio and needs a LOT more investment so risk is higher. So, yeah. Like I said in the OP, I don't expect it. But I would welcome it (while feeling like a rich asshole who can afford to risk $40 on a game and an old skeleton who remembers that's how it always used to be)

I may be letting some of my feeling about the Nintendo pricing reaction bleed over here, so feel free to throw salt on what I say.

One possible answer is that it's work they don't have to do. It's callous and I have NO evidence it is what happened, but there is a whole VERY rich and detailed world ready to go and that's a development shortcut.

No, that’s honestly a great point. And, I guess from a marketing perspective, any brand recognition at all is better than none at all if you start with something completely new.

No, I think you're fundamentally correct. No salt-throwing is required here.

I just think that "going upmarket", as you say, presents a unique challenge for Bungie in this genre where virtually all of their competitors are free-to-play. They're coming at the market from the bottom of a very steep hill. Now, there's no reason that can't work in principle, but it will only work if they are offering a premium experience compared to what their competitors already have.

So the million-dollar question is: Are they doing that with this product?

And if we assume that the answer is yes, then the hundred-thousand-dollar follow-up question is: Are they communicating that effectively to the market?

We must remember that the Internet can be quite an echo chamber of negativity, but a cursory look at the fan response to this stream on Reddit, on Discord, and elsewhere would suggest that they are not succeeding at going upmarket.

I’m not bothered by the initial price point at all. That maybe be different the gaming market at large. It’s the $40, plus battle pass, plus skins, etc. I’d pay $100 without flinching if I knew they weren’t going to turn around and ask for another $20 every other week, but we know that’s not what’ll happen. The gaming market has spoken, so I can’t really fault them for it. I’m just not going to participate. It being free to play buys goodwill in that department, but they’re not doing that.

I mostly don't like the color schemes/choices. Some of it's fine.
And yeah, everything looks flat and artificial. And something about the character models seems off to me but I can't quite place it.

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/fps/marathon-wont-have-proximity-chat-because-itd-be-way-too-toxic-i-dont-think-anyone-...

"When it comes to prox chat, I don't think we're against the experience of it, to be fair," game director Joe Ziegler told PC Gamer in an interview at Bungie's Seattle studio. "I think the challenge is how to make sure we're creating a safe environment for players inside of that space.

"I don't think anyone really has a good solution to that just yet. Because we're so dedicated to making sure that we're creating a safe space where we don't have players just flaming each other or doing terrible things to one another, I think we're not ready to invest in prox chat until we have a solution."

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It's one of the big selling points: A multiplayer game with a heavy story component. Also, this is the Marathon universe we're talking about here. And if you really want to get technical, Destiny is also a multiplayer game.

Yes, the story certainly matters to me.

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I get it. It's probably just too much of a headache to deal with. But proximity chat in DMZ was so much fun. Korny and I played a lot of DMZ when it came out, and proximity chat played a large part in my personal enjoyment. We used it to great affect to confuse enemies, and we had some really funny moments throwing taunts back and forth with one squad.

How does an MP game have a story component, and a competent one at that? That just feels superficial.

I don't know. Bungie haven't told me yet.

But they're making the claim, so I'm holding them to it.

I don't want every game to be like Marathon (I may not want Marathon at all, we will see) but I also don't need every game to absorb my whole gaming life, as Destiny has for 10 years. I am playing the Indiana jones game and have been for months, because that's the kind of time in my life I have for big story games. I'm glad they exist, and I like them more than the MP focused games, but I also still appreciate things like Halo3/4/R and Titanfall, and Fall Guys, and even Apex to a point, where there are a limited number of variables and a short time barrier to fun, and it can be consumed in more digestible chunks.

This is why I worry about the wipes between seasons.

Blizzard I think got the right balance with Diablo 2. How it worked was there were ladder seasons. You could create a ladder character and play ladder games. Ladder was essentially Ranked play, with a leaderboard and all that. In addition, there were ladder only items and runewords and bosses.

The key was that when the ladder season ended, all the previous seasons ladder characters just became regular characters. They still had all their gear, level, and items, but they were no longer on the leaderboard nor could they play ladder games.

This way if you were ultra hardcore you could just make another ladder character and grind, but if you weren't you could just keep playing your character unranked. Ladder only items would slowly filter down into unranked characters.

Feels like a good way to handle seasons no? That way each season 'wipe' only means losing the ability to use your acquired stuff in ranked mode. If you didn't care about leaderboards, you could just keep going. Meanwhile, the hardcore players could keep grinding in ranked play.

It all comes back around to your first question, though. What's the point? If there's not greater goal we're working for or challenge to overcome, who cares? What are you accumulating all this shit for?

If they set the expectation from the beginning (and they have), I don't think seasonal resets will matter. This isn't Destiny where they promised our gear mattered, then took it from us, then gave it back, etc, etc. They're stating early it resets, which I think is fine. It ostensibly lets them play with balance, which has been a constant headache for everyone in Destiny. If they get something wrong, they can just let it ride for a season and work on fixing in the background for the next reset. Seems smart, actually.

Why can’t the point be the grind itself? You’re accumulating all this stuff because it’s fun to accumulate all this stuff — and you want to see how far you can get before you lose it.

That's basically how I feel, I didn't play Marathon but have gotten a sense for it being "cool" through playing Halo and Destiny. So I really only have positive vibes for the setting, which is probably better than I would feel if it were something starting from scratch.

Why can’t the point be the grind itself? You’re accumulating all this stuff because it’s fun to accumulate all this stuff — and you want to see how far you can get before you lose it.

Oh, I absolutely agree. It's just . . I've played extraction shooters before. That loop is fun. For a while. But Bungie is not going to be content with people playing for a month then leaving, then maybe checking back in six months. I'm not asking how they're going to address that for me personally, just for the general gaming audience. And if they want people to stick around and buy skins, they're going to have to figure out an answer. I'm merely curious as to what it is--it doesn't matter to me personally either way.

That's basically how I feel, I didn't play Marathon but have gotten a sense for it being "cool" through playing Halo and Destiny. So I really only have positive vibes for the setting, which is probably better than I would feel if it were something starting from scratch.

That's exactly where I am, too. I wondered about it from the other angle, though. What's the goodwill they're burning by calling something Marathon and disappointing the old fans that want a real, traditional Marathon follow up (or as much of one as you could make in modern times)? But, honestly, there probably aren't enough of those people to matter, and you might get some of them onboard anyway just because of the connection, I guess.

I get it. It's probably just too much of a headache to deal with. But proximity chat in DMZ was so much fun. Korny and I played a lot of DMZ when it came out, and proximity chat played a large part in my personal enjoyment. We used it to great affect to confuse enemies, and we had some really funny moments throwing taunts back and forth with one squad.

Seconded. Though, if they’re going the non-toxic route, I also wonder if they’ll give console players the ability to turn off PC crossplay to cut down on constant cheaters ruining games.

That's basically how I feel, I didn't play Marathon but have gotten a sense for it being "cool" through playing Halo and Destiny. So I really only have positive vibes for the setting, which is probably better than I would feel if it were something starting from scratch.

That's exactly where I am, too. I wondered about it from the other angle, though. What's the goodwill they're burning by calling something Marathon and disappointing the old fans that want a real, traditional Marathon follow up (or as much of one as you could make in modern times)? But, honestly, there probably aren't enough of those people to matter, and you might get some of them onboard anyway just because of the connection, I guess.

I think you overstate this a bit.

I'm in this camp. I wanted nothing more than Marathon for the modern era. Doom to Doom 2016 so to speak.

But we aren't getting that. And that's not really a reason to dislike Marathon. Don't judge it for what it isn't or what you had hoped it'd be. Judge it by what it is.

At the end of the day, I don't really care if people at Bungie who weren't even born when Marathon came out go off and do something wacky with the IP. If it's good, it's good. But if it isn't, the OG trilogy still lives on in my memory, heart, and in Aleph One.

I get it. It's probably just too much of a headache to deal with. But proximity chat in DMZ was so much fun. Korny and I played a lot of DMZ when it came out, and proximity chat played a large part in my personal enjoyment. We used it to great affect to confuse enemies, and we had some really funny moments throwing taunts back and forth with one squad.

Seconded. Though, if they’re going the non-toxic route, I also wonder if they’ll give console players the ability to turn off PC crossplay to cut down on constant cheaters ruining games.

Does it even really matter at this point? Console players have access to things like XIM if M&K isn't supported, and if it is then they are on equal footing anyway. If anything, not supporting M&K officially would just lead to people who are using things like XIM dominating and stealing your loot.

Bungie released:

A. A cinematic trailer that was awesome to watch as a stand alone video. But as a hype video for the game? Terrible.
When Destiny was in hype mode, they release the video of the Hunter, Warlock and Titan kicking ass in the solar system. It was awesome. I saw that hunter and said to myself, "that will be me!! I'm going to kick ass like that Hunter!!"

But this cinematic? Everyone died. They set up a story, for a character...and you think, that will be me!! But then he dies. Everyone dies. So already I'm expecting a game where....well, you're gonna die.

B. The in-game trailer. Generic gameplay footage with a generic voice over explaining the game. And the footage wasn't even compelling! Let me tell you something Bungie. I'm pretty tired of hearing about "customizable custimazation to customize your custom" blablabla. I've been using a garbage monster for 10 years that I hate. I'm tired of your "unlimited customization:" promises.

C. Alpha Build Content Creators: Ok, I'm a console player. Know what I hate? G**D**n PC streamers sweating up my good time. I don't give a care about what a gaggle of PC only streamers think about the game. Add to that, watching them play, it didn't seem at all like they cared about the objective. Whether it's how they played, or how the video was edited, the objective based extraction didn't matter. They were playing a ROYALE game against other players. (of which there are only 18) And when I'm told that "weapons and loadouts don't matter, skilled, tactical players will always win out [paraphrase]" well guess what...you might as well say "bring your sweat rag, noob, or get your a** packed"

Eff Marathon. I'm out.

But this cinematic? Everyone died. They set up a story, for a character...and you think, that will be me!! But then he dies. Everyone dies. So already I'm expecting a game where....well, you're gonna die.

So… Mission accomplished?

I just don't get how people are disappointed with this gameplay. I'm concerned about the story, the art style, the PvE component, the price point, etc. but the core gameplay itself looks great. Am I just unfamiliar enough with the extraction shooter genre to not know what I'm missing?

All the footage I’ve seen looks like PC footage. That UI looks like a nightmare on a controller.

I’m not sure, either. It just looks like Destiny.

I get it. It's probably just too much of a headache to deal with. But proximity chat in DMZ was so much fun. Korny and I played a lot of DMZ when it came out, and proximity chat played a large part in my personal enjoyment. We used it to great affect to confuse enemies, and we had some really funny moments throwing taunts back and forth with one squad.

Seconded. Though, if they’re going the non-toxic route, I also wonder if they’ll give console players the ability to turn off PC crossplay to cut down on constant cheaters ruining games.

Does it even really matter at this point? Console players have access to things like XIM if M&K isn't supported, and if it is then they are on equal footing anyway. If anything, not supporting M&K officially would just lead to people who are using things like XIM dominating and stealing your loot.

I don’t see how that addresses cheaters on PC.

I just don't get how people are disappointed with this gameplay. I'm concerned about the story, the art style, the PvE component, the price point, etc. but the core gameplay itself looks great. Am I just unfamiliar enough with the extraction shooter genre to not know what I'm missing?

I was in a bad mood last night and came in way too hot with my post.

The only experience I have with extraction shooters is The Division and Call of Duty DMZ. Both were extremely frustrating because every game is just trying to extract but teams camp the extraction zone, ambush you, take your loot and leave on the [extraction device] that you called in. I was really hoping to see something different in some of the released videos.

The gunplay looked fun. But it seemed pointless. Players talked about an objective, but all I remember seeing is them getting into PvP battles, and taking their loot....but to what end? Once something is extracted, what can be done with it? In DMZ, you could get loot that you bring into the next game, but if you die you lose it all. There were also special weapons you could find, but when the game ends, the weapon goes away. It would have fun to keep that laser gun to start the next game with so I could go deeper into the map.

I was hoping to see more of an explanation like "Drop in, collect loot, and safely extract it...AND THEN look at all the cool stuff you can do with said loot." The latter never happened. But then they end it by saying "weapons and loot aren't as important as skill and tactics"...well then what's the point of the game!? Sounds like they are just making a small scale Arena/Royale shooter.

All the footage I’ve seen looks like PC footage. That UI looks like a nightmare on a controller.

I thought the same thing! In a game where you are constantly under fire, going through a rather vast inventory system is no-bueno! But also, what was up with the "loading" animation in the inventories. When they open a bag, it was just empty squares, and the items would gradually populate. That seems horrible.

Perhaps I'm out of touch, but it seems absolutely crazy to me that $40 is now considered a premium price for a game like this. When you compare that price point to the price of other goods these days, that's pretty damn cheap for what you are (probably) getting.

Maybe it's the concept of games as services that has changed this? In general, I think people are decent at properly assessing the value of a good, but tend to underestimate the cost of services. Reframing these games as services has gained the developers some things, but it seems to have come at a cost of people expecting high value for almost nothing.

All the footage I’ve seen looks like PC footage. That UI looks like a nightmare on a controller.

I thought the same thing! In a game where you are constantly under fire, going through a rather vast inventory system is no-bueno! But also, what was up with the "loading" animation in the inventories. When they open a bag, it was just empty squares, and the items would gradually populate. That seems horrible.

I still do not understand how a computer can do a calculation in the time it takes light to literally move an inch, render all sorts of crazy effects in real time, but they can't figure out how to display a grid of images right away.

Perhaps I'm out of touch, but it seems absolutely crazy to me that $40 is now considered a premium price for a game like this. When you compare that price point to the price of other goods these days, that's pretty damn cheap for what you are (probably) getting.

You aren't just paying 40 dollars.

I'm assuming you won't have the best time if you buy in at the start then never spend any more money.

The assumption is that if you're going to be doing battle passes and microtransactions, then the game should be free to play. If you pay up front, that shit is not gonna fly.

I don't make the rules, but that's how people see it.

https://youtu.be/PYXzUrVhSl4?t=1187

So there are terminals.

Better be some hidden ones you have to rocket jump, spin 180 degrees in midair, then grenade climb off the wall to find and read. Welcome to the Revolution.

I don't make the rules, but that's how people see it.

Fair or not, that's how I see. It doesn't feel like I'm buying a video game at that point--it feels like I'm buying access to enter a store so they can try to sell me more shit. At least with Fortnite, I can just play it for free if I want to, and I'm not missing out on any actual game content buy not buying skins. Which, in turn, makes me feel a bit more generous so I buy some skins anyway because I'm enjoying my time with the game.

I can't say whether it's right or wrong for them to charge for Marathon, but it doesn't seem like a smart decision at first glance. If they told me it was a paid experience with no skin shop, no paid battle passes, and any extra content would just be a DLC purchase, I could swallow that a bit easier, but paid game, plus paid battle pass, plus paid item shop . . . that's tough to swallow in the modern market.

Cody linked me this video, and he's right--this video sells me on the game in a way that nothing else has, so far. Comparing it to early Apex Legends doesn't hurt.

I can respect what that is, but since you asked me, no; I don't think that's a good way. It still leads to gear grinding and gear FOMO. That's not something I'm personally looking for after 10 years of Destiny.

I don't want to accumulate anything. I don't want to be very different than anyone that picks that class in anyway that changes gameplay for more than a short while and I sure don't want to feel lesser-than because I don't have a thing in the game. Not even just for one season.

Or the truly depressing answer: what does that matter if you will never make a game like the first 3 Marathon games anyway?

But this cinematic? Everyone died. They set up a story, for a character...and you think, that will be me!! But then he dies. Everyone dies. So already I'm expecting a game where....well, you're gonna die.

So… Mission accomplished?

Yeah. Cody snark aside, I think that's what's happening. As much as I like playing with my Destiny folks, there were a lot of Battlefield and Halo people who didn't want to play Destiny I had to leave behind (as those franchises went bad). It is, sadly, a thing that divides us, but is not avoidable.

Honestly I'm worried by how much people are talking about this game in a way I didn't get from the video I saw. Am I missing information or are they assuming it will be something Bungie never said it would be? I'm unsure. I guess I need to do more reading up.

People keep asking what is the point, but I feel like we have lost sight of the past when a game was played because playing it was fun. FPS more so than any of those. I thought when I saw a title in this thread about games just being fun, that is what people would be focused on. But they were talking about just enjoying the fun of grinding for accumulation even if the stuff accumulated goes away. I respect people who want something "more" but I'm hopeful Bungie is backing off of doing Destiny complications like progression and avarice. I just find it hard to believe they (really Sony) would decide to. Also, I deeply suspect I am old and want a thing that won't exist again.

I just find it hard to believe they (really Sony) would decide to. Also, I deeply suspect I am old and want a thing that won't exist again.

I'm with you. I just want Halo again, honestly, but they're never going to do that. And, really, I'm not sure they could. I don't think a good FPS campaign with a separate arena competitive multiplayer mode works anymore. You need a steady stream of content and battle passes to keep players playing. Playing just for the fun of it just kinda isn't enough (again, not for me personally, just for the wider market).

The more coverage I see of Marathon, the more it's bringing me around, though. It does look and sound fun. I like extraction shooters. Seasonal resets and losing everything upon death anyway solves my main problem with Destiny in regards to feeling the need to grind to play the actual stuff I want. This does seem like a game one could just jump in and play with friends whenever, without feeling the pressure to do the weekly checklists.

The more coverage I see of Marathon, the more it's bringing me around, though. It does look and sound fun. I like extraction shooters. Seasonal resets and losing everything upon death anyway solves my main problem with Destiny in regards to feeling the need to grind to play the actual stuff I want. This does seem like a game one could just jump in and play with friends whenever, without feeling the pressure to do the weekly checklists.

The bounties are literal timed checklists…

People keep asking what is the point, but I feel like we have lost sight of the past when a game was played because playing it was fun.

I think it's just perception based on the info we were given.

Invitation to the party said pizza and cake, but when I got there it was burgers and pie. I love burger and pie, but I was told pizza and cake.

I was told Extraction shooter, but all I saw was a strange hybrid of PvP battles. The Extraction part is yet to be understood by me, and it's supposed to be main point of the game.

The more coverage I see of Marathon, the more it's bringing me around, though. It does look and sound fun. I like extraction shooters. Seasonal resets and losing everything upon death anyway solves my main problem with Destiny in regards to feeling the need to grind to play the actual stuff I want. This does seem like a game one could just jump in and play with friends whenever, without feeling the pressure to do the weekly checklists.

The bounties are literal timed checklists…

I'm basing this off of my experience with something like DMZ, as we don't know exactly how Marathon will work. The bounties are just bullshit things to do while you're in the map. They exist solely to give you something to focus on while you're in the game. Do something specific at one POI or another. Kill dudes with certain weapons. Whatever. You're not missing out on anything by skipping a day. You just pick a bounty to give you something to do and get a reward for completing it. It's not like Destiny where if I miss a week of activities, that's a week's worth of pinnacle drops, so now I'm behind and won't be up to the level requirement for the raid. That's what I mean by weekly checklist.

People keep asking what is the point, but I feel like we have lost sight of the past when a game was played because playing it was fun.

I think it's just perception based on the info we were given.

Invitation to the party said pizza and cake, but when I got there it was burgers and pie. I love burger and pie, but I was told pizza and cake.

I was told Extraction shooter, but all I saw was a strange hybrid of PvP battles. The Extraction part is yet to be understood by me, and it's supposed to be main point of the game.

I understand the extraction shooter part, but this goes back to the root problem that seems to be bugging a lot of us. As far as presentation goes, this was presented very poorly. Intent, branding, meaning, and perception are what’s being discussed. And it’s not just here on these forums. It’s a bad first gameplay impression, but they do have time to release more info, show more stuff, and maybe turn things around.

This could just be a me problem, but anything presented to me by streamers who need to maintain their relevance by sucking up to Bungie (or any other company) makes me automatically distrustful of what they’re saying. So even with this video, I also can acknowledge that maybe all of what they’re saying is legit or how they really feel. But either way, I end back up at square one since I’m not buying a thing they have to say about anything anyway.

I’ve also seen Bungie get hyped up plenty with Destiny material that doesn’t live up anything close to the hype upon release. And plenty of other game companies. And even pre-release movie hype that doesn’t match audience or critic sentiments (or my own).

It's being reported by a streamer by the name of Espresso that there is a fourth map which will release shortly after the launch of the main game -- a bit like Vault of Glass, I suppose -- which is set aboard the UESC Marathon.

That's potentially cool, and to be expected. DMZ had Building 21, which came into rotation after a while, and was a more difficult map with high end gear. In order to gain access, you needed to find a key in the regular map an extract with it.

because I'm a filthy casual who depends on the kindness of others to play high-level content without too much pain. It'd be cool if I could find a role that doesn't frustrate my teammates too much. Don't have much faith in that.

All that said, I love the art style. Bungie has always had the best art, IMHO, and they haven't lost that magic. And, irrespective of the game ...

that cinematic was stunning--simply amazing as a standalone piece of art. It's a top-tier short film. As good as any Bungie's other triumphs in this space. Are there awards for such things, Cody? Does it qualify for a Clio?

I remember not being able to stop watching the Oni trailer back in the day. I'm feel the same about this one.

That's basically how I feel, I didn't play Marathon but have gotten a sense for it being "cool" through playing Halo and Destiny. So I really only have positive vibes for the setting, which is probably better than I would feel if it were something starting from scratch.

That's exactly where I am, too. I wondered about it from the other angle, though. What's the goodwill they're burning by calling something Marathon and disappointing the old fans that want a real, traditional Marathon follow up (or as much of one as you could make in modern times)? But, honestly, there probably aren't enough of those people to matter, and you might get some of them onboard anyway just because of the connection, I guess.

I think you overstate this a bit.

I'm in this camp. I wanted nothing more than Marathon for the modern era. Doom to Doom 2016 so to speak.

But we aren't getting that. And that's not really a reason to dislike Marathon. Don't judge it for what it isn't or what you had hoped it'd be. Judge it by what it is.

At the end of the day, I don't really care if people at Bungie who weren't even born when Marathon came out go off and do something wacky with the IP. If it's good, it's good. But if it isn't, the OG trilogy still lives on in my memory, heart, and in Aleph One.

This, and I'm glad it's in the universe, but distant from it on the timeline. At least I think I read that. Following a legend is hard. It was very tricky to make Bladerunner 2049 awesome. Setting it apart is a good choice, creatively.

But to answer your question the the Destiny context: it was constantly confirming and downloading things with the server. Doesn't matter that your GPU has 554214 cores, you're still going to wait on a queue to even know what to render. Other non-calculation wait times may include loading heavy art files from your hard-drive and decompressing insanely compressed files before using them (technically qualifies as calculation, but you know, extra).

But to answer your question the the Destiny context: it was constantly confirming and downloading things with the server. Doesn't matter that your GPU has 554214 cores, you're still going to wait on a queue to even know what to render. Other non-calculation wait times may include loading heavy art files from your hard-drive and decompressing insanely compressed files before using them (technically qualifies as calculation, but you know, extra).

There's this thing called… I dunno, caching? How hard is it to cache your inventory and update only individual items as they change? I'm not a programmer yada yada but this is basic shit. Validate with the server in the background and don't hang up the UI.

Also in the realm of stuff I have a hard time believing, and a great story FPS plus a multiplayer that is not seasonal, there are new rumors of Titanfall 3.

I am certain that is an intentional game design to make looting more difficult/strategic/tense.

The items were appearing in roughly increasing order of value.

Bungie said this. Just in case people were worried about trustworthiness.

I am certain that is an intentional game design to make looting more difficult/strategic/tense.

The items were appearing in roughly increasing order of value.

That's how I interpreted it. And it seems horribly frustrating. It looks tedious enough for a PC player, imagine dealing with all that on a console. yuck.

https://youtu.be/Y3Pr5fylP4A?t=2005

Tl;dw

Bungie said the ranked mode, and the 4th map will be the things that are revolutionary and what will set the game apart. Guy asks Bungie how will ranked mode work? They don't know yet. Is it coming for launch? Ehhh yeah? 4th map definitely not coming until post launch.

He raises the very good question: "If these are the things that will make Marathon special… why not release the game when those things are done? Why should we buy a promise of future revolutionary thing?"

🤔

All secrets except for two. There's a secret door I missed to let the imprisoned Bobs out on the Phor ship, and the Welcome to the Revolution secret terminal I tried to get, but sadly missed. The rocket jump is tough.

I even do Colony Ship for Sale cheap the real way!

Played on Major Damage difficulty.

- No text -

There's this thing called… I dunno, caching? How hard is it to cache your inventory and update only individual items as they change? I'm not a programmer yada yada but this is basic shit. Validate with the server in the background and don't hang up the UI.

Back when old-old-gen was running D1, it was clearly too much graphical data at once to cache. If it still has issues now, it's probably resolution gluttony.

And again, I figured in Marathon it was being done on purpose. To up the tension or what-not.

Back when old-old-gen was running D1, it was clearly too much graphical data at once to cache. If it still has issues now, it's probably resolution gluttony.

Even on PS3/360 where Destiny ran at 720p, a full uncompressed frame would be 2.6MB. The icons are as big as they will ever be, and are but a small portion of the frame. So the actual amount of required cache is less. Why they'd possibly store the icon art in a higher res than they'd ever be shown I do not know.

360 I can get because it might not have a hard drive, but you're telling me you couldn't cache at most 2.6MB of data onto the console's storage?! The OG Halo cached ENTIRE LEVELS to the Xbox hard disk!

I'm not a programmer, but I've seen online games where it doesn't take > 10 seconds to load icons in a menu.

I’ve been reading through a lot of what people have to say here, and I think a common theme has formed in my head from all the discussion:

We just don’t trust Bungie anymore.

Exactly when the point that happened for anyone is going to vary wildly, but it’s been a reality for me since pretty early in Destiny’s life-cycle.

So I go into these media/marketing presentations with a pretty cynical mentality, and I can’t say that anything anyone has said- Bungie or otherwise- has done anything to help alleviate that. Quite the opposite.

I do think that the gameplay concept of “extraction”, and the risk/reward of betting your accumulated gear in a gameplay session is one that can work very well (I love Hitman 3’s Freelancer mode to death and it makes fantastic use of this). I just have zero interest in doing it against other players who are probably better than me.

I kept the hope alive that after the initial tepid reaction to Marathon’s reveal, Bungie would wake up and realize there’s still a sizable audience for a solid, single-player campaign in a cool sci-fi universe, but it appears that was naive of me.

Exactly when the point that happened for anyone is going to vary wildly

For me it was the Halo 2 graphic novel.

I do think that the gameplay concept of “extraction”, and the risk/reward of betting your accumulated gear in a gameplay session is one that can work very well (I love Hitman 3’s Freelancer mode to death and it makes fantastic use of this). I just have zero interest in doing it against other players who are probably better than me.

This is the thing I'm wondering about. I think they'll have to do the same thing with putting other teams on the map as they did with Halo 2/3, which let the skill level swing a bit. You'd get both even games, and lopsided games, some of which were in your favor and some which aren't. I feel like you'd NEED to have those few games where you just walk all over the other team, or you'd just be constantly losing. Pure skill based match making I feel like would fail here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhxjlQT5aqM&t=1255s

He touches on something that has bugged me for a while. The couch format doesn't do it for me. This isn't fair, but there's a negative Hollywood vibe that turns me off. There's an assumption that these people, most of whom I don't recognize, are supposed to be inherently interesting to me simply because of where they work. Feels like stolen bases trading on the so-called glamor of working as a creative. [Caveat: love Lars, he was kind to me when I met him, but that defines me as a lucky outlier among potential Bungie fans.]

Let me make a comparison. I used to work in sales, hardcore door-to-door sales. Know what ticks me off? The young adults who used to come around selling magazines. I think the company that hired them was predatory, but in the moment what always irked me was that they weren't taught to sell anything. They were taught to beg for help so they could win a trip to Hawaii. Why the hell should I care about whether you, kid I've just met, goes to Hawaii? I've never gotten to go to Hawaii.

Similarly, I don't care about what kind of runner Bungie employees like to play as, or their favorite moments. I don't yet know what they're talking about. It's inside baseball and they haven't adequately explained to me what a baseball is. Maybe they haven't finished inventing baseball, and that accounts for the vagueness, but seriously, sell me a GAME. That is why you're there. The Bungie of old might not fly in 2025. There wasn't much transparency. There was a bit of arrogance. A webmaster might ridicule you. They made games that THEY liked to play, and that was it. We hope you like it, but maybe you won't. That is true salesmanship. We love our product. You might not. [Shrug]

The old-style viddocs were all I needed Not the new ones with a parade of faces and names in various throes of exclaiming how excited they are. Give me devs who aren't maybe as polished because they've been yanked away from working on something they care about to be filmed saying something about the game. It's a fine line I guess. There's nothing more boring than listening to people discuss a movie you haven't seen. That's how I felt through a lot of the presentation this week.

The cinematic used the art and the lore to make a FANTASTIC short film. If the game does this nearly as well, it could be something special. Maybe it will be. The pitch hasn't worked on me yet.

The couch format doesn't do it for me. This isn't fair, but there's a negative Hollywood vibe that turns me off. There's an assumption that these people, most of whom I don't recognize, are supposed to be inherently interesting to me simply because of where they work.

I'm sure all of these people are great. It's irrelevant. The main thing is that it's a lot of focus on something that has absolutely nothing to do with selling the game, which is ultimately the purpose of the stream.

Introduce the developers later -- AFTER you've sold us on your new game, NOT before! Our time is valuable. Our attention is limited. Use it effectively while you've got it!

Similarly, I don't care about what kind of runner Bungie employees like to play as, or their favorite moments. I don't yet know what they're talking about. It's inside baseball and they haven't adequately explained to me what a baseball is. Maybe they haven't finished inventing baseball, and that accounts for the vagueness, but seriously, sell me a GAME.

That's the most worrying thing, although "worrying" puts to much emphasis on it. If the game is bad, I guess I'll feel some disappointment and just move on. There's too much other shit to do to care about a bad video game. But damn if it doesn't already kinda feel like Destiny all over again. They seemingly have grand ideas, but after listening to interviews and watching coverage all weekend, it really seems like they barely have a grasp on what the game actually is. It just feels kind of half-baked, like it has all this potential, but they don't really know how to realize their vision (which, I guess matter of taste or whatever, but that's where Destiny ultimately ended up, too). And it only lets our (or at least my) imaginations run wild, guessing at where it ends up. I already have visions of going on the Marathon and having to solve puzzles, do miniature raid encounters, etc. They certainly haven't said that, so it'll only be my fault if I end up disappointed when it turns out to just be another map with harder enemies or something.

It honestly feels like it's far, far too early for them to be talking publicly about this game, and that's insane given it's supposed to come out in September. It feels like they're talking about something that should be launching into Early Access or something, not something they're ready to call a finished product ready for retail.

The cinematic used the art and the lore to make a FANTASTIC short film. If the game does this nearly as well, it could be something special. Maybe it will be. The pitch hasn't worked on me yet.

That short film is really something. I've watched it a dozen times now--it is just so, so captivating. It's selling me on something I don't really think the game is going to provide, it just makes my imagination run wild. Seriously, I could watch hours of that just to soak in that atmosphere. The guy discovering and listening to music for what I imagine is the first time . . . like that sells me on what's going on more than anything else. I don't know that you can actually recreate even a fraction of that feeling in competitive multiplayer game in any real way, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhxjlQT5aqM&t=1255s

This is all just kind of criticism based on speculation about things we just don't know about yet. It's not necessarily the correct leap to go from "The reveal was bad" to "the game is underbaked".

I don't need to know every detail. In fact, I don't want to. I love the process of discovery for games. But I do need that hook. I just need to know "why should I care about this game?"

The reveal did not answer that.

He touches on something that has bugged me for a while. The couch format doesn't do it for me. This isn't fair, but there's a negative Hollywood vibe that turns me off. There's an assumption that these people, most of whom I don't recognize, are supposed to be inherently interesting to me simply because of where they work. Feels like stolen bases trading on the so-called glamor of working as a creative. [Caveat: love Lars, he was kind to me when I met him, but that defines me as a lucky outlier among potential Bungie fans.]

I also didn't much like the beginning of the stream. It felt like it was the "red carpet" portion of the show, where they just asked people how excited they were about what we were going to see. I expected to see what we were going to see at the start time! It also seemed like they didn't practice the Q&A ahead of time. Maybe what people want is off the cuff and genuine, but that didn't seem like the right place for it. They were already begging us to stay to the end right of the bat!

The cinematic used the art and the lore to make a FANTASTIC short film. If the game does this nearly as well, it could be something special. Maybe it will be. The pitch hasn't worked on me yet.

That short film is really something. I've watched it a dozen times now--it is just so, so captivating. It's selling me on something I don't really think the game is going to provide, it just makes my imagination run wild. Seriously, I could watch hours of that just to soak in that atmosphere. The guy discovering and listening to music for what I imagine is the first time . . . like that sells me on what's going on more than anything else. I don't know that you can actually recreate even a fraction of that feeling in competitive multiplayer game in any real way, though.

You and me both, buddy. I'm sharing it with non-gamer friends, saying forget about the game part. This is incredible.

They were already begging us to stay to the end right of the bat!

What an interesting observation, and I do think it is somewhat revealing.

However, I don't think we should totally overanalyze this as so many people are doing. It was just a bad reveal. The game could be amazing. Or it could not. We just don't know.

When the trailer for Sonic the Hedgehog (2020) dropped, even after altering Sonic's design it looked really bad. Cut to me and my friends in a theater full of grown ass adults laughing our asses off and having a great time.

It's as if people want this to fail. How about we let the game fail or succeed on its own merits, rather than on a failed presentation?

If anything, this is a lesson to developers on the waste that is spending all this money building a studio, filming these events, and producing these livestreams. Just make a killer trailer / 'gameplay' demo and let the game speak for itself.

As ZackDark has said, this is probably on purpose, not a programmer/processor issue. It simulates having to open the bag and find the next item. I believe Tarkov which is the biggest extraction shooter right now, does something very similar.

The cinematic used the art and the lore to make a FANTASTIC short film. If the game does this nearly as well, it could be something special. Maybe it will be. The pitch hasn't worked on me yet.

That short film is really something. I've watched it a dozen times now--it is just so, so captivating. It's selling me on something I don't really think the game is going to provide, it just makes my imagination run wild. Seriously, I could watch hours of that just to soak in that atmosphere. The guy discovering and listening to music for what I imagine is the first time . . . like that sells me on what's going on more than anything else. I don't know that you can actually recreate even a fraction of that feeling in competitive multiplayer game in any real way, though.

You and me both, buddy. I'm sharing it with non-gamer friends, saying forget about the game part. This is incredible.

Same.

[ala The Chris Farley Show]

Remember that part where the trio gets ambushed? and they are ducked down behind that shield? That was awesome.

But seriously, that side profile shot where you see every bullet effect the stability of the shield and slowly chip it away...bruh. You could feel the weight of every bullet.

The cinematic used the art and the lore to make a FANTASTIC short film. If the game does this nearly as well, it could be something special. Maybe it will be. The pitch hasn't worked on me yet.

That short film is really something. I've watched it a dozen times now--it is just so, so captivating. It's selling me on something I don't really think the game is going to provide, it just makes my imagination run wild. Seriously, I could watch hours of that just to soak in that atmosphere. The guy discovering and listening to music for what I imagine is the first time . . . like that sells me on what's going on more than anything else. I don't know that you can actually recreate even a fraction of that feeling in competitive multiplayer game in any real way, though.

You and me both, buddy. I'm sharing it with non-gamer friends, saying forget about the game part. This is incredible.

Same.

[ala The Chris Farley Show]

Remember that part where the trio gets ambushed? and they are ducked down behind that shield? That was awesome.

But seriously, that side profile shot where you see every bullet effect the stability of the shield and slowly chip it away...bruh. You could feel the weight of every bullet.

Um. Remember when you said the loot you take is equal to the loot you make? Uh, is that true?

https://t.co/DRcU8Ulzmt

— Marathon (@MarathonTheGame) April 18, 2025