As I've mentioned before, Shaders are a good way to make me try any challenge. Fortunately, this one is a fairly easy one (on paper) to tackle!

If your team beats DSC flawlessly, you get a neat shader that looks like this:

Pretty slick eh?
So I'm putting together a team. The big question is timing. This week, DSC is the featured raid, meaning that if people want to practice a flawless run, the encounters are farmable, and Eyes of Tomorrow is up for grabs on completion!

With DSC weapons becoming craftable next month, there's no rush to do this challenge, but even quick practice runs should make it smoother when that update rolls around (especially with our current OP Arc builds!

I'll go ahead and make an event "scheduled" For December 06th, since that's when the Craftable weapons become available, but in the meantime, we can run it whenever folks are available.

I suggest we make it a regular thing so we don't feel pressured to do it flawless the very first sitting.

I’m in.

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If there's room for me (and I'm actually online), I'd love to join.

Seems like I'm already practicing - this has been my work of the last few days:

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We haven't had Revelry in a while, but I think they are usually available during Spring events.

I could also swear that either Ada-1 or Xur have sold them before, but I'm not 100% on that. I'll keep an eye out for ya.

I suggest we make it a regular thing so we don't feel pressured to do it flawless the very first sitting.

Totally. When we did our original Flawless Raider nights, we knew it would take a while, so we would keep going even after a wipe, just to iron out kinks in as many encounters as possible. Our successful run was actually just a practice run (which is why we were short a man that night). It's a lot more fun when it feels low stakes and you get into a rhythm naturally.

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I'm pretty available a couple nights this week. Ping me if there's a spot.

What nights work best for everyone?

After tonight, I’m available almost every evening after 7:30 EST.

The wibbly wobbly thing is giving me headaches.

7:30pm EST sounds good to me, unless daylight savings is affecting the conversion. That is 9:30pm here, so I should have about 3 hours hard ceiling.

Anytime after 8:30pm est works for me on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday.

But between the holidays, my DnD schedule, and *gestures wildly* other things, gotta play each day by ear.

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Anybody in the group gonna stream? I feel like watching! I'm told the raid is one of the best, and I'm genuinely curious.

I think I have twitch linked appropriately, so I can if it actually happens.

P.S. I found our blind Leviathan run on my old YouTube like three weeks ago and scrubbed through some of it. That was a really fun blind raid.

So all mishaps considered, our run last night was actually pretty smooth! I think our main issues were simply due to being rusty, and that we simply haven't settled on more specific roles and actions during the encounters.

Sparrow Bit:
We simply need to become familiar with the specifics of a couple of spots. Simply running it repeatedly will get us back to muscle memory.

As you can see on the map above, the final turn has a fork where the lamp is. I always opt to go right at that fork.

Security:
That went really well. Xenophage works wonders on the pillars, and our Scanner/Operator combo felt like a great go-to team.

Atraks:
I think juggling the corrupt poop would be a fine non-issue if we do the doordash strat, but we didn't really struggle with this bit either way. This is one of those "more Thundercrash= less issue" encounters, but that's a discussion for another day.

SPACE:
Quit falling.

Re-entry:
Chaos strat seemed to work well. Our only deaths were from misreading the box locations. User error, should buff out nicely.

Taniks:
I think if specific people get assigned specific legs, we'd be able to work out the 4 bomb issue. Other than that, the 1-4 strat went smoothly.
Fooch and I are just too good at captain killing, we'll need to get worse.
Also, that Bubble placement that wiped half the team, lol.

Any other notes/suggestions?

Also, that Bubble placement that wiped half the team, lol.

...and saw us victorious. Worked as intended. Would place again. :)

So all mishaps considered, our run last night was actually pretty smooth! I think our main issues were simply due to being rusty, and that we simply haven't settled on more specific roles and actions during the encounters.

Wish I'd been there!

Atraks:
I think juggling the corrupt poop would be a fine non-issue if we do the doordash strat, but we didn't really struggle with this bit either way. This is one of those "more Thundercrash= less issue" encounters, but that's a discussion for another day.

I can't remember who's on this team, but if there's anyone from the normal Wednesday night raid team, you should get the 'one scanner' strat down. It's by far the least stressful on 5/6 of the team.

SPACE:
Quit falling.

I'm guessing this is gonna be the hardest part. :(

Re-entry:
Chaos strat seemed to work well. Our only deaths were from misreading the box locations. User error, should buff out nicely.

Taniks:
I think if specific people get assigned specific legs, we'd be able to work out the 4 bomb issue. Other than that, the 1-4 strat went smoothly.
Fooch and I are just too good at captain killing, we'll need to get worse.
Also, that Bubble placement that wiped half the team, lol.

Sort of surprised you DIDN'T have assigned legs. It makes the difference between success and maybe-success on almost every run. (Once the bombs start falling, it's really easy to just pick up what's next to you, if you don't have an assigned one... and this will ALMOST ALWAYS lead to problems. Also, there's a language difference (in the kill feed) between picking up a bomb on the ground, and taking one out of someone else's hands, but my experience is that almost nobody notices this; many failures just come down to someone THINKING they were picking up a bomb off the ground, but ACTUALLY taking a bomb off their teammate, and nobody noticing until it was too late.)

I'll be streaming on here:

https://www.twitch.tv/munky058

Not sure how enjoyable a raid is to watch when everyone more or less knows what they're doing, but knock yourself out!

I'll be streaming on here:

https://www.twitch.tv/munky058

Not sure how enjoyable a raid is to watch when everyone more or less knows what they're doing, but knock yourself out!

I dug it! I read a raid guide beforehand to get al least kinda familiar, but its not the same as watching it obviously. It was cool to see.

I think it’s still my favorite raid. They’re all fun blind, but this one was particularly cool to figure out.

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I think it’s still my favorite raid. They’re all fun blind, but this one was particularly cool to figure out.

Let me know when you all get to running Vow of the Disciple flawless!

I can't remember who's on this team, but if there's anyone from the normal Wednesday night raid team, you should get the 'one scanner' strat down. It's by far the least stressful on 5/6 of the team.

👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

Sort of surprised you DIDN'T have assigned legs. It makes the difference between success and maybe-success on almost every run. (Once the bombs start falling, it's really easy to just pick up what's next to you, if you don't have an assigned one... and this will ALMOST ALWAYS lead to problems. Also, there's a language difference (in the kill feed) between picking up a bomb on the ground, and taking one out of someone else's hands, but my experience is that almost nobody notices this; many failures just come down to someone THINKING they were picking up a bomb off the ground, but ACTUALLY taking a bomb off their teammate, and nobody noticing until it was too late.)

Shooting off the bombs was the hard part, running them was fine, actually. I hadn't heard of assigning a single person to shoot each one off before. I always found "everyone shoot everything they see" to be very consistent before :p

Wish I'd been there!

Atraks:
This is one of those "more Thundercrash= less issue" encounters, but that's a discussion for another day.

I can't remember who's on this team, but if there's anyone from the normal Wednesday night raid team, you should get the 'one scanner' strat down. It's by far the least stressful on 5/6 of the team.

Hey, guess what?

SPACE:
Quit falling.

I'm guessing this is gonna be the hardest part. :(

Apparently. Folks just sadly don't have a Warlock mindset when platforming, and deaths ensue.

Taniks:
I think if specific people get assigned specific legs, we'd be able to work out the 4 bomb issue. Other than that, the 1-4 strat went smoothly.
Fooch and I are just too good at captain killing, we'll need to get worse.
Also, that Bubble placement that wiped half the team, lol.

Sort of surprised you DIDN'T have assigned legs. It makes the difference between success and maybe-success on almost every run. (Once the bombs start falling, it's really easy to just pick up what's next to you, if you don't have an assigned one... and this will ALMOST ALWAYS lead to problems. Also, there's a language difference (in the kill feed) between picking up a bomb on the ground, and taking one out of someone else's hands, but my experience is that almost nobody notices this; many failures just come down to someone THINKING they were picking up a bomb off the ground, but ACTUALLY taking a bomb off their teammate, and nobody noticing until it was too late.)

Our biggest issue is that Bomb 2 and 3 just have too dang far to travel. It's always painfully close, and if they get detained? RIP.
I'd hate to say that running 2 bomb might just end up being the safest option for a flawless clear. Its the only way to guarantee the bomb folks don't just die to radiation. That's like, 85% of our plight here.
7.5% of it is remembering the Purple beams of death,
and the final 7.5% is not getting blown up by the debris/zappy floor that the Well of Radiance camouflages.

We pretty much have it down pat, deaths aside!

I can't remember who's on this team, but if there's anyone from the normal Wednesday night raid team, you should get the 'one scanner' strat down. It's by far the least stressful on 5/6 of the team.

👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

Instead of sending the scanner up and down each time, the SCANNER (person) goes up and down each time. This requires that the scanner person makes no mistakes, but reduces the chances that OTHERS make mistakes, and most DPS is done on the top level. (Someone is waiting when the scanner comes up to shoot off the purple thing, but everyone else is in a bubble or rift, in a relatively central location, waiting to do damage.)

You can even skip the bottom phase after the first one; it's not required. (I can't remember the details, would need to talk to Chappy or Squid, but all you lose is a little damage - it's not critical as long as you're doing a decent job at the top.) It reduces the chances for stupid deaths, like jumping into empty elevator tubes, or getting killed by something as you're running for the elevator, or whatever.

Sort of surprised you DIDN'T have assigned legs. It makes the difference between success and maybe-success on almost every run. (Once the bombs start falling, it's really easy to just pick up what's next to you, if you don't have an assigned one... and this will ALMOST ALWAYS lead to problems. Also, there's a language difference (in the kill feed) between picking up a bomb on the ground, and taking one out of someone else's hands, but my experience is that almost nobody notices this; many failures just come down to someone THINKING they were picking up a bomb off the ground, but ACTUALLY taking a bomb off their teammate, and nobody noticing until it was too late.)

Shooting off the bombs was the hard part, running them was fine, actually. I hadn't heard of assigning a single person to shoot each one off before. I always found "everyone shoot everything they see" to be very consistent before :p

It's more "assign a single person to a single bomb" - it's not exclusive to shooting, it's also picking up... but in general, one person shooting one bomb (with the two extras shooting everything) takes bombs down pretty fast. I dunno. That might be one of those things Korny was talking about, do it a few times and it stops being an issue.

Atraks:
This is one of those "more Thundercrash= less issue" encounters, but that's a discussion for another day.

I can't remember who's on this team, but if there's anyone from the normal Wednesday night raid team, you should get the 'one scanner' strat down. It's by far the least stressful on 5/6 of the team.

Hey, guess what?

NICE

Taniks:
I think if specific people get assigned specific legs, we'd be able to work out the 4 bomb issue. Other than that, the 1-4 strat went smoothly.
Fooch and I are just too good at captain killing, we'll need to get worse.
Also, that Bubble placement that wiped half the team, lol.

Sort of surprised you DIDN'T have assigned legs. It makes the difference between success and maybe-success on almost every run. (Once the bombs start falling, it's really easy to just pick up what's next to you, if you don't have an assigned one... and this will ALMOST ALWAYS lead to problems. Also, there's a language difference (in the kill feed) between picking up a bomb on the ground, and taking one out of someone else's hands, but my experience is that almost nobody notices this; many failures just come down to someone THINKING they were picking up a bomb off the ground, but ACTUALLY taking a bomb off their teammate, and nobody noticing until it was too late.)

Our biggest issue is that Bomb 2 and 3 just have too dang far to travel. It's always painfully close, and if they get detained? RIP.

In our Wednesday night group, I run bomb 3, and I die maybe 10% of the time. (Could be less than that.) It's always close, but even detained, you can make it, if the operator is on point. (Also, remember that the timer starts when the first bomb gets picked up, so bomb carriers 1 and 4 should NEVER grab first. I mean, we tried to do a countdown so everyone picked up together, but barring that, the two back legs should pick up as soon as they see someone ELSE pick up.)

I'd hate to say that running 2 bomb might just end up being the safest option for a flawless clear. Its the only way to guarantee the bomb folks don't just die to radiation. That's like, 85% of our plight here.

Huh. You're probably right; the extra damage phase is probably less risky than the CHANCE of death during the carry.

7.5% of it is remembering the Purple beams of death,
and the final 7.5% is not getting blown up by the debris/zappy floor that the Well of Radiance camouflages.

I'm pretty sure that that final 7.5% is gonna go up to about 50% in a 2-bomb run. ;)

We pretty much have it down pat, deaths aside!

lol - nice!

Hey, guess what?

Mental note: Bring big d**k Super and everyone upstairs next time.

I think it’s still my favorite raid. They’re all fun blind, but this one was particularly cool to figure out.

Let me know when you all get to running Vow of the Disciple flawless!

Might as well not even watch than. ;D *snicker*

Looking at the Raid Report, we've improved quite drastically since our first runs, even with different people on the teams.

I've set up a Friday event since Torkey Day today.
In the meantime, here's our run from the other night (slightly condensed!) for a fun refresher!

If folks want/need, I'd be happy to run another raid as well (Flawless VoG? lol)

Sort of surprised you DIDN'T have assigned legs. It makes the difference between success and maybe-success on almost every run. (Once the bombs start falling, it's really easy to just pick up what's next to you, if you don't have an assigned one... and this will ALMOST ALWAYS lead to problems. Also, there's a language difference (in the kill feed) between picking up a bomb on the ground, and taking one out of someone else's hands, but my experience is that almost nobody notices this; many failures just come down to someone THINKING they were picking up a bomb off the ground, but ACTUALLY taking a bomb off their teammate, and nobody noticing until it was too late.)

I'm a big fan of assigned legs because that optimizes the path to your bin. Prof Ozy created this graphic shortly after DSC came out.

like jumping into empty elevator tubes

This is a thing?! Please tell me someone has a clip!

I'm a big fan of assigned legs because that optimizes the path to your bin. Prof Ozy created this graphic shortly after DSC came out.

This graphic is great. I think we should definitely try assigned legs/bombs the next time around, and be careful about letting 2 and 3 pick up first.

Heh. I'm just afraid bomb RB won't drop in a timely manner and everyone will know it's my fault! :p

like jumping into empty elevator tubes

This is a thing?! Please tell me someone has a clip!

I don't have any clips, but I have witnessed (and occassionally been a party to):

- people not understanding that the empty tube doesn't have an elevator in it (usually first run only)
- two people jumping into the same elevator, one going up, the other dying
- someone waiting for an elevator to be sent down, and jumping in to avoid dying to adds in the room (but jumping in just a LITTLE too soon)

Well, being on during holidays is tough for me, but I really do like the look of that shader, so if y'all need to fill a spot, send me a message.

Timezones do suck. I've had success using this simple and stupidly named tool: https://crab.fit

Well, being on during holidays is tough for me, but I really do like the look of that shader, so if y'all need to fill a spot, send me a message.

Yeah, it kind of figures that the farmable version of the Raid will be on the week leading into Christmas. While I'd love to have that shader ASAP, I'm well-aware that the Holidays are the worst time to wrangle folks together.

And we'd love to have ya join when you can! Looks like we have a few slots open for tonight's run, so if you're online, shoot me a message!

And if anyone in the Big Clan Chat wants to join, we've mostly got all the kinks worked out (if we could only survive that Space walk!), so feel free to get them in on the fun!

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Cody! You're ruining the act.

You have to drop this.

You have to drop this.

What do I have to drop? What am I guilty of? Why is the onus on me? Is there something wrong with wanting a community where I feel welcome?

Because no one has any obligation to spend time with you, and expecting someone to do that against their will is fucking childish and ridiculous, no matter how illegitimate you think their feelings are.

Because every time this comes up, threads get locked. It’s not my job to police this place, but you continue to get your jabs in despite no response from him, and no response from anyone else because it only ever results in the thread getting locked (as I’m sure I’ve ensured this one will be).

So please, fucking drop it. Grow up.

Because no one has any obligation to spend time with you, and expecting someone to do that against their will is fucking childish and ridiculous, not matter how illegitimate you think their feelings are.

Because every time this comes up, threads get locked. It’s not my job to police this place, but you continue to get your jabs in despite no response from him, and no response from anyone else because it only ever results in the thread getting locked (as I’m sure I’ve ensured this one will be).

So please, fucking drop it. Grow up.

I am supposed to ignore jabs at me, I suppose. (And I have.)

Grown-ups would talk. I'm not the one unwilling to. Grown-ups would resolve conflicts. I could say a lot about being fucking childish. Contrary to what's been said, this hasn't been talked about ad nauseam. It's been brushed under the rug. Ignored. A member of the community libels another and gets a slap on the wrist and is told it's okay to be exclusionary. It's not about spending time with an individual, it's about being part of a community. It's about what kind of community this is. #Insanewasright.

Contrary to what's been said, this hasn't been talked about ad nauseam. It's been brushed under the rug. Ignored. A member of the community libels another and gets a slap on the wrist and is told it's okay to be exclusionary. It's not about spending time with an individual, it's about being part of a community. It's about what kind of community this is. #Insanewasright.

I would strongly disagree that this has been ignored. I've talked to you about it, more than once. I've talked to Korny about it. It didn't start here; you brought it here. The 'libel' you talk about isn't anywhere on this forum, and is unknown to 95% of this community. (I wouldn't have known about it if you hadn't told me directly.)

Korny has made it clear that he doesn't want to talk publicly about it, and that he doesn't want to talk to YOU about it. He has, that I know of, never asked that you be excluded from any event you want to participate in. All he's done is to say that he will not participate if you're there. (That's absolutely his right.) You have, more than once, chosen to step out rather than have him step out... but (at least every time I've been involved personally) have made a lot of noise about that. That's really on you; nobody else playing has ever said "oh, dammit, we have to play with Kermit now."

The community (as far as I can tell) is being as accepting as it can possibly be. Nobody's said to you "we need Korny to finish this, please don't join" - that's 100% a Kermit thing. You can't really argue that when YOU exclude yourself, that's the community excluding you. One person (well, two, but they live in the same house) has chosen not to play with you. Nobody else has held it against you that this is the case. (If this is not true, please let me know.) I raid with you almost weekly, I enjoy the experience, and have never felt like i'd have more fun if Korny were there instead.

"Being an adult" does NOT mean "I have to spend my discretionary time with someone I don't enjoy the company of" - Korny has done what is in his control (participated/not participated based on your presence), and that seems reasonable (to me, at least).

I guess I find it offensive that you claim an entire community (one that I'm reasonably high up in the leadership of) is exclusionary because ONE PERSON chooses not to play with you. There are plenty of other personal beefs in this community, and for the most part, they're handled relatively maturely; those who don't want to play together just don't play together. This is the ONLY case I know where that is not true. And I gotta say... nearly 100% of the drama seems to be coming from you. Cheapley's right - this has gotten every thread up to now locked... I'm leaving this open because the actual point of it (discussion of a flawless DSC run) is ongoing and relevant, and because at SOME point, what I'm saying here needs to be said publicly. Might as well be now.

I would strongly disagree that this has been ignored. I've talked to you about it, more than once. I've talked to Korny about it. It didn't start here; you brought it here. The 'libel' you talk about isn't anywhere on this forum, and is unknown to 95% of this community. (I wouldn't have known about it if you hadn't told me directly.)

I think more than once there were some nasty things lobbed out there in FTB event descriptions, but that seems to have stopped.

I sense a learning moment. Hopefully I can get my words out right. Which is an interesting segway, as I also sense that, oh, "phone tag" has made for a happy hell. For What It's Worth, Buffalo Springfield was true in saying "nobody's right if everybody's wrong".

And, it's interesting. Everyone has responded exactly as is to be expected. Korny in spirit as our very own Loki (much as he has liked to be from time to time in the forums), cheapLEY with his tack of military bluntness, and Claude with his straight arrow analysis. Always true (as one can). And Kermit, with whom I speak with all due respect, has posted more from his heart then his head.

...AND IT'S ALL BEEN IGNORED.*

WHAT DID Y'ALL THINK YOU WERE SAYING when you locked them threads? What I've been BITCH'N about towards Bungo, I say to all whom have a say in this matter; ACTA NON VERBA. Words are potent things, but SO TOO are ACTIONS which seem to SPEAK for themselves. The KEYWORD there is SEEM, and the heart and its emotions try to fill in the rest with it's folly. Does that sound like anyone we know y'all?

AND Y'ALL SURPRISED?!?! I mean, the words said here in this subject are not wrong, but y'all still missing the target. The WHOLE flippen' point.

Claude, YOU are a much longer friend to both Kermit & Korny than I can speak to being, as I by and large exist at a distance. I do not envy the sticky position you've found yourself in, but also, to what I have seen, you've done a pretty shitty job.

OH! OH! I almost forgot... hold on, don't comment yet...

*As I am a distant observer, there are discussions I do not know, whose business is only so close due to the social collection for which we play. Thus, What can I do but speak true my piece of the puzzle?

Claude, I would hope, as such a life long friend, you could see the hurt of your friends. Korny, to what I have seen, has been the antagoniser of this situation. So when I read "It didn't start here; you brought it here." directed at Kermit, which is such utter bullshit regardless your intent in writing it, I must speak first with pause.

...

Thanks to HBO, I've been able to read of the good old days. It is such a sad ugly thing to see once good friends grow so apart. Shit, such is life. It really sucks, but sometimes folks grow apart. But I think the worst TWIST of the knife is the larger set of friends pretending it didn't happen. It all strikes as a gaslighting to pain expressed. But perhaps that is too strong, gaslighting. Instead, emotional ignorance?

Whatever it is, it's NOT the action of Mature ADULTS. That's the action of cowardly children. This conversation long delayed is an ugly business, and a hard one at that. I again have no envy in any of this. But you gotta look it in the eye and stop being so FUCKING coy about it. Utter Trash.

Kerm, there is truth in their words, however misguided. I hope despite the misgivings, you'll consider it. AND STOP FLIPP'N FRETTING for goodness sake. Life has enough knives, don't let your mind add more.

I think, in this situation, there are many apologies to be said FROM ALL, so that the hatchet is buried, and that is that. But ALL THIS will keep bubbling up, again and again, because the WOUND is still festering and making shit complicated.

Have some heart y'all. Two best friends have grown apart, the least we can do is APPLY the right amount of support. "You have to drop this.", in both word and action is the antithesis of such support.

"HEY MAN, JUST MAN UP!" UGH! Trash. Trash trash trash.

That said... you know, sometimes... sometimes I think General Vagueness was right despite his abhorrent manner. It was about Korny then too, at least. Court of law that don't mean shit, but I have found myself thinking about it from time to time. I said to Vagueness something about how many times I've had to work with assholes. Why can't Korny play with Kermit, which whom, as we all know is the biggest asshole of DBO. (Sorry cheapLEY ;P lol)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It just, this whole thing just does not jive. But wa'evs, that's my 2, hope to see all y'all in Destiny whenever I can get around to it. Korny, I hope you nail the flawless run.

And now, the best finish a Halo Reference.

"Politics... How Tiresome" ... or... Finish the fight?

Hmmm. :P

One person excluding another person in a six player game in a tiny community like this one has huge ripples. When someone can pretty much count on being excluded from half or more of the games organized by the community... yeah, they have a right to complain. A proper community leader would fix this. By demanding some proper conduct from all involved. Sure, you can't stop friends from playing with each other... but you can stop someone from using your community to hurt someone else. Instead, we get no leadership and a continuous, ongoing disruption. :(

Claude... that was probably the worst response you could have made as a community leader. Coming down on one side vs the other? Wow. I'm in full agreement with Insane below. Korny's "anyone" was just as much a deliberate provocation as anything I've seen Kermit do!

Kermit... Claude is also kinda right. I'm on your side as much as I can be with my very limited knowledge of this... and even I see you poking every chance you get. Cut it out. If it's not gonna happen, it's not gonna happen. I feel super bad for you. With the high number of games Korny is a part of and with it often being with your long term friends, you are being excluded. Quite badly. But random insertions here on the forums isn't helping things, I don't think.

Korny... we've already spoken. We still disagree. Nothing more to say.

Holy crap, you three. I enjoy playing with all of you, but this is bullshit. And, I guess it will continue to be bullshit.

Welcome to DBO... where we exclude people from playing and everyone is just fine with it.

It seems untowardly, from my perspective, to joke at a situation that's got some genuine negative feelings.