Just . . . wow. I’m legitimately blown away.

I just finished the campaign. Playing through on legendary was the most fun I’ve had in a shooter in a long time. It was perfect.

The boss fights are all really fun! And I love that there are some actual puzzle mechanics through the campaign (even as light as they are). What a cool, fun experience.

Also, Hive Guardians are what Champions should have been.

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I just finished the campaign. Playing through on legendary was the most fun I’ve had in a shooter in a long time. It was perfect.

The boss fights are all really fun! And I love that there are some actual puzzle mechanics through the campaign (even as light as they are). What a cool, fun experience.

Where is it on a scale from Fabian Strategy to Gjallarhorn?

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Outlaw.

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Ok... that should(?) be enough warning. And if it's not, well, tough shit. :D ! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So I, just like cheapLEY, just beat Witch Queen on Legendary. Literately. And, while I do have - CUZ ITZ ME - some nit picks, it was in some cases quite a ride. I'm still mulling it all over so, nothing right now, other than this.

The New Strike? The entire time going through it I was saying, this is going to SUCK in Grandmaster. It's a freek'n awesome, multi-layered strike and I'm curious how long that feeling shall last since we'll be playing it many times over I'm sure. I have to wonder though, is this thing is even longer then the strike in the Dreaming city? I've only played it once, but it felt like it.

Anywho, that's all I'm going to put down right now. Good stuff.

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And, while I do have - CUZ ITZ ME - some nit picks,

Oh, believe me, I have some problems, too, but they didn’t even come close to overshadowing how awesome and fun that experience was.

I’ll just ask, who is writing the dialogue over there? Because it absolutely sucks. Did anyone finish a sentence in that entire campaign? Every single line feels like a filler like that doesn’t actually have a point.

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And, while I do have - CUZ ITZ ME - some nit picks,

Oh, believe me, I have some problems, too, but they didn’t even come close to overshadowing how awesome and fun that experience was.

I’ll just ask, who is writing the dialogue over there? Because it absolutely sucks. Did anyone finish a sentence in that entire campaign? Every single line feels like a filler like that doesn’t actually have a point.

I get the sense from the trailers there's some flanderization going on, particularly with Zavala. It's like Zavala doing an impression of Zavala.

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I get the sense from the trailers there's some flanderization going on, particularly with Zavala. It's like Zavala doing an impression of Zavala.

That might be true, but that’s not my issue. Throughout the whole campaign, we’re invading Savathun’s Throne World and trying to find out how and why the Hive can use the Light. Every time we find out a bit of information Ikora says “That’s impossible!” or someone will say “So that means . . . “ and then just trails off without actually saying what that means. I almost get the impression the writers don’t have a fucking clue what it means, so they write all these little filler lines like that so that it roughly sounds like a conversation is happening, but literally not a single thing of substance is said.

It’s a shame, because there’s lots of good, fun writing in there. Savathun’s lines are all cool and good and fun to listen to. Some of the actual cutscenes where stuff does get explained is good. But the Guardians and Ghost and Vanguard all sound like actually dumb third graders trying to fake an important conversation. It’s so bad.

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That might be true, but that’s not my issue. Throughout the whole campaign, we’re invading Savathun’s Throne World and trying to find out how and why the Hive can use the Light. Every time we find out a bit of information Ikora says “That’s impossible!” or someone will say “So that means . . . “ and then just trails off without actually saying what that means. I almost get the impression the writers don’t have a fucking clue what it means, so they write all these little filler lines like that so that it roughly sounds like a conversation is happening, but literally not a single thing of substance is said.

Better or worse than Metal Gear Solid?

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I just finished the campaign. Playing through on legendary was the most fun I’ve had in a shooter in a long time. It was perfect.

The boss fights are all really fun! And I love that there are some actual puzzle mechanics through the campaign (even as light as they are). What a cool, fun experience.

Also, Hive Guardians are what Champions should have been.

Literally just finished playing through on Legendary.

It was interesting because I'm switching mains for the first time (gonna try to switch every season), and it was super fun to dig into Void 3.0 on a different class (Hunter).

I find the difficulty almost perfect. I'd have tweaked some checkpoints since early boss rounds or steps that become rote once you figure them out but then have to redo when you die are bleh. But yeah, interesting enemies, satisfying combat bowls, intriguing story, double chests everywhere? Best Destiny campaign yet. During it I thought to myself "this is Bungie firing on all cylinders" which is wild since this was largely developed remotely during a pandemic...

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I just finished the campaign. Playing through on legendary was the most fun I’ve had in a shooter in a long time. It was perfect.

The boss fights are all really fun! And I love that there are some actual puzzle mechanics through the campaign (even as light as they are). What a cool, fun experience.

Also, Hive Guardians are what Champions should have been.

Literally just finished playing through on Legendary.

It was interesting because I'm switching mains for the first time (gonna try to switch every season), and it was super fun to dig into Void 3.0 on a different class (Hunter).

I find the difficulty almost perfect. I'd have tweaked some checkpoints since early boss rounds or steps that become rote once you figure them out but then have to redo when you die are bleh. But yeah, interesting enemies, satisfying combat bowls, intriguing story, double chests everywhere? Best Destiny campaign yet. During it I thought to myself "this is Bungie firing on all cylinders" which is wild since this was largely developed remotely during a pandemic...

Agree so far. I found it tough,. but doable.

What I also love is it's repayable with a proper campaign menu and everything.

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I straight up wish this was the default difficulty of Destiny. The new zone ends up feeling a little disappointing after the legendary campaign. Legendary Patrol when?

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Just finished the first campaign mission solo legendary.

If I paid money for this, I would be livid.

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I’d be pretty pissed if I paid $40 for one campaign mission, too, I guess.

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Just finished the first campaign mission solo legendary.

If I paid money for this, I would be livid.

I'm curious too. Every single person I've asked has said it's better than even the Taken King. I would like to read a different opinion.

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I will say, if he only played the first mission, it’s not super impressive. The first one feels like a pretty normal Destiny mission—Go here, kill the dude to get the battery to put into the machine, do that three times then it’s done. Once you get onto the Throne World, it gets really good. The boss fights are all fun, there’s some neat (though not crazy or difficult) puzzle mechanics.

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I will say, if he only played the first mission, it’s not super impressive. The first one feels like a pretty normal Destiny mission—Go here, kill the dude to get the battery to put into the machine, do that three times then it’s done. Once you get onto the Throne World, it gets really good. The boss fights are all fun, there’s some neat (though not crazy or difficult) puzzle mechanics.

I am very, VERY disappointed in this expansion so far.

I played the whole campaign on Legendary, have replayed about half of it on normal (2nd character) and have done a fair bit of the post-campaign open world stuff that’s available so far.

I think I understand why so many people are saying things like “this is the best Destiny campaign”. In my estimation, a lot of it comes down to the fact that Bungie has removed the majority of the the rough, annoying edges that have plagued so many of their previous campaigns. The boring, tedious “fetch quest” activities are mostly gone, there’s far less annoying back-tracking over and over again across patrol environments… in many ways, this is the closest they’ve come to a typical FPS campaign since the Halo days. And IMO, that is both the best and worst thing about it. If they trimmed any more “fat” out of this campaign, they would be all the way back to the old days of simply selecting your mission from a main menu and pressing “play”. The places where the campaign really drags are the few times they have you go out into patrol spaces and do patrol-style activities. Most of the campaign is 90% of the way back to traditional, linear Halo-style missions. And yeah, in many ways that’s way better than previous Destiny campaigns. But I see that as a huge problem in a way, because it’s really highlighting to me what a complete dead-end the “open world” patrol spaces have become. Bungie just can’t figure out how to make them engaging or exciting in any meaningful way. The Dreaming City was phenomenal IMO, and other than that I don’t think there is, or has ever been a Patrol space in D2 that offers any enjoyment beyond the first hour of driving around to see the sights (with the lone exception behind D2 Mars purely for the Escalation Protocol activity… I loved that).

So I’m playing this campaign and thinking “yeah, they’re finally getting back closer to the old Halo style campaigns they used to make”… but then the whole thing turns into a snake eating it’s own tale, because as soon as I start thinking about Witch Queen in direct comparison to Bungie’s Halo campaigns, it falls miles short. It’s just not in the same league at all. The gameplay is just so much more repetitive in D2. Bungie’s Halo campaigns had so much more gameplay variety, better storytelling, and more memorable moments that begged to be replayed over and over, because they played out so much differently every time you played them. Witch Queen doesn’t really have any of that, IMO. If I pretend that D2 is the only shooter that exists, I might be more impressed with this campaign. But Titanfall 2 exists, and Mass Effect 2, and the Bad Company games, and The Last of Us, etc. I would never expect a D2 expansion to match the scope or scale of those sorts of campaigns, but quality? Sure. So basically, I feel like the Witch Queen campaign trades in a lot of the potential that D2 has to deliver something truly unique for a safe, basic, competent attempt to imitate the kind of campaign Bungie mastered 15-20 years ago.

A big part of my disappointment with this expansion comes down to the new destination. I think it’s awful. I find it ugly, uninteresting, and sterile. It also feels like the most artificially “gamey” destination in D2. Half of it is this fortress that is just a series of promenades and building facades, none of which seems to have any discernible in-universe purpose or function, with random groups of enemies just standing around waiting for you to shoot at them. I know this is basically what all patrol spaces are at their core, but Bungie usually does a decent-to-great job of making the environments look and feel like places that could really exist, and had a function/history to them. This whole patrol space just feels like a Doom 2 multiplayer map to me. There are a few big exceptions to this… a few locations that offer some truly impressive sights that made me just stop and look around for a while. But they’re generally way off the beaten path, and so far away from the usual “patrol” activities that I doubt I’ll see them more than a handful of times. Of course, there’s also the issue that the actual activities we do in the new patrol space are the same level of lacklustre, mindless busy work that has dominated patrol zones for years now. The “secrets” and “puzzles” are (so far) so dull that I stopped engaging with them after the first hour.

I think this expansion has driven home a realization for me which has been sneaking up on me for about a year now, which is that after 7+ years, I think I’m finding Destiny’s basic PvE combat formula is showing its age. More often than not, I feel like I’m just going through the motions as I clear through wave after wave of enemies. I’ve done it all so many times at this point, the fact that I’m using a “new” hand cannon or SMG or whatever just isn’t enough of a change to keep it feeling fresh. The light-baring hive are a total non-event, IMO. Even on legendary, I killed every single one of them so fast that I barely had to worry about their abilities.
I will say, I think the Glave is a fantastic addition. It’s the first time in forever that I feel like a new kind of gameplay has been opened up. The way you can shoot, block, and melee so fluidly and seamlessly is a lot of fun, and it is the one gameplay addition that feels truly NEW in this game in years.

All that said, it’s still Destiny. The gunplay and movement still feels great, the art team still does incredible work, the music and audio production are top notch, and the story has some interesting lore and is going in some cool directions (i do still feel like the moment-to-moment script is still awful though… most of these characters still talk and act like their straight out of a Saturday morning cartoon, which does not at all fit with the deeper story they’re trying to tell). So there’s plenty of stuff here to like, and plenty of quality work to appreciate. But for me personally, I’ve never felt so checked out of D2 so soon after a major release. For me, D2 needed a big, strong shot of truly fresh air to get me excited about it again, but Witch Queen is just more of the same, albeit a marginally better version of “the same” compared to the last few expansions.

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I can’t say I disagree with most of that. I’m definitely checked out already. I finished the campaign and spent a night or two exploring the new area and tried the new activities and I think I’m done. I’ve seen what I wanted to see. I just can’t anymore with the game operates at a fundamental level.

Their patrol zones are total failures. Sorry, Bungie—grinding out reputation by doing mindless bullshit so I can get the ability to press a button at a predetermined location to bring a “secret” into view isn’t fun or interesting. It might actually be the literal laziest excuse for game design I’ve ever encountered. It was lazy when they did it last season, but hey, at least it’s not hidden behind a weekly lockout this time. Instead it’s hidden behind how many boring patrol activities you can stomach before you realize you could just slam your balls in a door instead.

I loved the campaign (in the context of a Destiny campaign—it’s no Halo 3). Playing through on Legendary was a great way to spend two evenings. Everything after that has been lackluster beyond the the two hours it took to see the new area and get a taste of the Wellspring and the new seasonal activity.

Part of me wonders if they’ve just lowered the bar so far that this feels like a triumph in comparison. I’ve seen tons of posts ok reddit praising how great it is that our Guardian has so many lines, and it left me completely flabbergasted. Our Guardian had like ten lines and not a single one was of any significance whatsoever. But somehow the bar was so low that even that was praiseworthy.

I wish I liked Destiny more than I did anymore. There’s still so much potential there that they refuse to work towards. Maybe it’s time to hang it up and quit bringing this place down so often. I don’t know.

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Part of me wonders if they’ve just lowered the bar so far that this feels like a triumph in comparison. I’ve seen tons of posts ok reddit praising how great it is that our Guardian has so many lines, and it left me completely flabbergasted. Our Guardian had like ten lines and not a single one was of any significance whatsoever. But somehow the bar was so low that even that was praiseworthy.

I think this is a big part of it. I’m sure there are plenty of exceptions, but I get the impression when I read comments on Reddit that a lot of the people who post there are only ever comparing Destiny to itself. It’s as if they don’t ever play anything else. The praise for the storytelling is probably the best example of that. Some people talk about D2’s recent storytelling as if it’s some kind of brilliant, genre-defining narrative experience. I think it’s fair to say that it has improved significantly, but I also think it’s important to remember Destiny had some of the absolute worst storytelling in the history of AAA gaming. So while the improvement is good to see and deserves congratulating, I find it hyperbolic and a little bit crazy when people start tripping over themselves to praise the storytelling in Witch Queen like it’s on par with Dostoyevsky. I lost track of how many times characters in the campaign suddenly “realized” or “figured out” some crucial insight which they had no realistic way of knowing, other than the fact that the plot required them to figure it out in order for things to progress. They’ve even starting covering their asses in the lore, describing Ikora’s insight and intellectual prowess as bordering on supernatural, so that when we see her jump to conclusions in game we can say “oh, well she’s just crazy smart like that!”. It’s like the way the writers of the newer Star Wars movies use force powers to get themselves out of whatever plot dead-ends they write themselves into. “How will Character X solve this problem? Oh, we’ll just invent a new force power for them to spontaneously manifest and get themselves out of it!” Lol

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Destiny has had that problem since the beginning with the Grimoire. It was novel and funny when they referenced Guardians dancing around their fallen enemies from the point of view of a random Cabal, but now they’re using the lore books to justify bad design and writing. Oh, we still have the Mercury maps because the Crucible is actually a simulation or some shit—as if that needed any sort of canon explanation. Who cares? It’s the Hunter Vanguard shit. Oh, the Hunters don’t want to hang out in the Tower so that’s why there’s no Cayde replacement. Just admit that part of the story or universe isn’t a priority and move on instead of writing some dumb bullshit to try and explain away the realities of modern game development.

There’s also the fact that the story is still entirely too reliant on those lore entries—they still have the best stories in Destiny, and the main narrative we’re served in the game only makes the barest amount of sense without reading them.

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Still shoulda killed Ikora off during the red war with a critical sacrifice, making the speaker’s words ring true, and defying Gaul’s proclamation that we have forgotten the fear of death.

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So I’m playing this campaign and thinking “yeah, they’re finally getting back closer to the old Halo style campaigns they used to make”… but then the whole thing turns into a snake eating it’s own tale, because as soon as I start thinking about Witch Queen in direct comparison to Bungie’s Halo campaigns, it falls miles short. It’s just not in the same league at all. The gameplay is just so much more repetitive in D2. Bungie’s Halo campaigns had so much more gameplay variety, better storytelling, and more memorable moments that begged to be replayed over and over, because they played out so much differently every time you played them. Witch Queen doesn’t really have any of that, IMO. If I pretend that D2 is the only shooter that exists, I might be more impressed with this campaign. But Titanfall 2 exists, and Mass Effect 2, and the Bad Company games, and The Last of Us, etc. I would never expect a D2 expansion to match the scope or scale of those sorts of campaigns, but quality? Sure. So basically, I feel like the Witch Queen campaign trades in a lot of the potential that D2 has to deliver something truly unique for a safe, basic, competent attempt to imitate the kind of campaign Bungie mastered 15-20 years ago.

Interesting observation.

First of all, I don't think you are ever going to get the style of battles Halo is known for. It's just now how enemies, their placement, their AI, and the sandbox itself is set up in D2.

I think there are certain genres that are all or nothing. When you make an MMO, or an Open World game for example, you've committed yourself to a certain experience that is incompatible with the experience of a game like Halo. I think you're correct when you say it has to "trade" a lot to get this.

Now I've been on the outside now for over 3 years, but I seem to recall the past few expansions having less of a focus on a narrative, and more on activities. Why the change now I wonder? What does Destiny want to BE?

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Now I've been on the outside now for over 3 years, but I seem to recall the past few expansions having less of a focus on a narrative, and more on activities. Why the change now I wonder? What does Destiny want to BE?

Narrative was probably the secondary priority for a good long while. As they've slowly figured out how to properly support that team, so too has narrative gained importance. However, that seems to have affected the balance of the overall design. Perhaps the new growing pain is now how to balance and excel at both.

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So I’m playing this campaign and thinking “yeah, they’re finally getting back closer to the old Halo style campaigns they used to make”… but then the whole thing turns into a snake eating it’s own tale, because as soon as I start thinking about Witch Queen in direct comparison to Bungie’s Halo campaigns, it falls miles short. It’s just not in the same league at all. The gameplay is just so much more repetitive in D2. Bungie’s Halo campaigns had so much more gameplay variety, better storytelling, and more memorable moments that begged to be replayed over and over, because they played out so much differently every time you played them. Witch Queen doesn’t really have any of that, IMO. If I pretend that D2 is the only shooter that exists, I might be more impressed with this campaign. But Titanfall 2 exists, and Mass Effect 2, and the Bad Company games, and The Last of Us, etc. I would never expect a D2 expansion to match the scope or scale of those sorts of campaigns, but quality? Sure. So basically, I feel like the Witch Queen campaign trades in a lot of the potential that D2 has to deliver something truly unique for a safe, basic, competent attempt to imitate the kind of campaign Bungie mastered 15-20 years ago.

Interesting observation.

First of all, I don't think you are ever going to get the style of battles Halo is known for. It's just now how enemies, their placement, their AI, and the sandbox itself is set up in D2.

I think there are certain genres that are all or nothing. When you make an MMO, or an Open World game for example, you've committed yourself to a certain experience that is incompatible with the experience of a game like Halo. I think you're correct when you say it has to "trade" a lot to get this.

Now I've been on the outside now for over 3 years, but I seem to recall the past few expansions having less of a focus on a narrative, and more on activities. Why the change now I wonder? What does Destiny want to BE?

I think The Taken King was the perfect blueprint for a major Destiny release. The campaign mixed traditional linear missions with excursions into the open world in ways that worked to establish the new play space and introduce us to the various locations. The more traditional linear missions were well done, and they didn’t overstay their welcome. Most importantly, there’s that moment where the campaign ends and you suddenly realize that the campaign was just an entry point, and now you have this whole web of story missions and quest lines and strikes and activities that spiderweb their way out across the Dreadnaught. I remember suddenly realizing that the campaign missions were really just an introduction to the REAL content of the expansion. IMO, that formula was peak Destiny. Taken King had it’s share of problems and annoyances too, but that fundamental blueprint was spectacular, and to your question, it was the kind of experience you can’t get from a traditional linear shooter. It was the design that justified Bungie’s creation of a “shared world shooter”.

For whatever reason, they never really went back to that same blueprint. The closest they came was with Forsaken, I think. In some ways, I preferred forsaken (mostly because I preferred the Dreaming City as a place to explore). But I don’t think the structure of that expansion felt quite as amazing as TTK, mostly because I found the campaign a bit too long, and the majority of it took place in the Tangled shore which we then largely abandon as soon as we’re done with the campaign missions. I was happy to leave the Tangled Shore in favour of the Dreaming City because I though DC was a far better patrol space, but I did feel a bit like the majority of the campaign was spent getting to know an environment which became obsolete and inconsequential almost immediately.

Getting back to Witch Queen though, it’s a bit shocking how abrupt a halt the game comes to once you’ve finished the campaign. I’m tentative on this, because it is just the 2nd week after all. But logging into the game yesterday at reset, I felt very strongly that there was simply nothing of consequence left for me to do. There’s the raid in a couple days, and there’s some cool potential with weapon crafting in the future, but right now I can’t find a single compelling reason to play anymore… and we’re just barely over a week past a major expansion :-/

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There’s the raid in a couple days, and there’s some cool potential with weapon crafting in the future, but right now I can’t find a single compelling reason to play anymore… and we’re just barely over a week past a major expansion :-/

Isn't that… good? Now you can take a break, and play other games like Forbidden West or Gran Turismo 7.

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There’s the raid in a couple days, and there’s some cool potential with weapon crafting in the future, but right now I can’t find a single compelling reason to play anymore… and we’re just barely over a week past a major expansion :-/

Isn't that… good? Now you can take a break, and play other games like Forbidden West or Gran Turismo 7.

I don’t think it’s good… not considering I just spent $120 or whatever it cost for the deluxe edition of this expansion. It’s not like I felt satisfied by playing through the campaign… Destiny campaigns have always been the thing I play through in order to get to the good part of the game, lol. It’s not that I think the campaign is bad… I just think it’s a serviceable, mostly forgettable few hours that I have no interest in ever replaying ever again. And unlike previous expansions that I’ve enjoyed, there’s very little left to dig into now.

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There’s the raid in a couple days, and there’s some cool potential with weapon crafting in the future, but right now I can’t find a single compelling reason to play anymore… and we’re just barely over a week past a major expansion :-/

Isn't that… good? Now you can take a break, and play other games like Forbidden West or Gran Turismo 7.

I don’t think it’s good… not considering I just spent $120 or whatever it cost for the deluxe edition of this expansion.

Dude, I spent 40 bucks all things considered to see Uncharted. Imagine how I feel!!

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I actually enjoyed the first mission—it felt pretty fluid, environments were great, story was well teased...it even had a Doom reference two-fer!

I'm also genuinely curious to hear why you didn't like it, because I've been getting glowing reviews from everywhere else.

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I just finished the main line of story missions, I really enjoyed it as well. Definitely the best Destiny campaign. Legendary was great, it could have been a touch harder in places but not much. Possibly my gear/loadout was too good, for someone coming in new I can imagine it would be much harder.

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I just finished the main line of story missions, I really enjoyed it as well. Definitely the best Destiny campaign. Legendary was great, it could have been a touch harder in places but not much. Possibly my gear/loadout was too good, for someone coming in new I can imagine it would be much harder.

I have no doubts there are people who could manage, but I would not like to imagine trying the legendary campaign as new player without some built up gear and mods.

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I beat it on regular and I am replaying on legendary. I haven't found it that challenging. Feels like Halo on heroic. The only place I somewhat struggled was the boss on the third mission. Most of that was me blowing myself up with Gally because I couldn't see what I was doing.

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Not that I wish to imply that the opinions of the folks who depend on the game being as easy as possible are invalid, but... I mean. Y'all can play how you want!

I just finished the campaign. Playing through on legendary was the most fun I’ve had in a shooter in a long time. It was perfect.

So it apparently turns out that there are three difficulties in the game: Normal, Solo Legendary, and Co-op Legendary. I agree with your point that Solo Legendary should really be the game's default difficulty. It keeps you on your toes during every engagement, but without making you feel like you need to over-specialize your loadout or spend your time peeking from cover between heals like most of the "difficult" content in the game. I tried doing the first mission Solo, and it was neat, as I was constantly mid-to low health if I wasn't mobile, but my only deaths were self-inflicted:

See how it's a good balance of "going through the motions" while requiring me to use my whole kit to avoid dying? That's what I wish the game offered in all areas. Ultimately though, it did feel a bit underwhelming, because I'd done these missions in Co-Op Legendary, which was a whole different beast.

If you want the most bang for your buck, grab a partner and run through these missions together. The difficulty jump goes from "this should be the default" to "Sweet Jesus, is that an Ogre!?" Sammy and I were hootin' and hollering throughout the entire run, and even hit a couple of walls where we had to rethink our approach (and Sammy actively engaged with the Armor mods for the first time ever!).
I loved the chill when we heard an Ogre's roar before we saw it, because that meant it was time to move. I loved the parts where the game lures you into a section, only to spawn enemies behind you, because it meant that you better have some real tricks up your sleeve.
And when a Hive Guardian spawned? Cover wasn't safe anymore, and was time to split up, lest we die together.

It's funny that I hardly got a single clip of our co-op run, but I think it's because most of the amazing gameplay moments were chained to another without time to breathe, and when the two reward chests popped, it was time to set the controller down for a couple of minutes and discuss the crazy moments, saves, and mistakes that we had clawed our way through.
Designer Alex Pfeiffer put it best in this PSBlog interview:
“We wanted to make the campaign missions feel a little bit more like a dungeon. Dungeons and Exotic missions like Presage are very aspirational and are very sophisticated, but not everybody gets to experience them. They’re very difficult, they require you to put a team together, and so we wanted to extract what makes those things special and bring it to a wider audience.”

The encounters did a great job of mimicking the combat portions of Dungeons like Pit of Heresy and Presage, where your only hope is to be just as aggressive as the enemy, because there is an objective that you have to complete at all costs, and the enemy won't let up until you succumb or succeed. The chests that popped up at the end of every major encounter truly felt earned. This contrasts with strikes, where for the most part there's more of a trek with enemies scattered between until you get to an arena encounter or two where you have to open a door that the last enemy drops the key to.

And as far as challenge? Almost across the board, It was the best that Bungie's done yet. From objectives that keep you pushing forward, making the Peek-and-hide gameplay ineffective, to the lack of Champions that would force you into specific weapons and playstyles, it was liberating without letting us get too comfortable with a singular approach, as we did have to reassess our loadouts for certain encounters depending on what the enemies were throwing at us. Sammy started the campaign with a shotgun, and ended it with a sniper/bow build, while I developed a Void well build over the course of the campaign.

The boss fights are all really fun! And I love that there are some actual puzzle mechanics through the campaign (even as light as they are). What a cool, fun experience.

I love that for most of them, the mechanics of the boss fight are ones you've been employing throughout the level (except for The Ritual, but we'll get back to that), and they don't really repeat (other than the Crystal shattering). When the Boss showed up, there didn't have to be a trial and error period where we wiped until something clicked, it just came down to identifying the encounter space and already knowing what to look out for (The final encounter of Ghosts is a great example of this). While not quite on the same level of Titanfall 2's per-level gimmicks, it was enough that no mechanic overstayed its welcome, while making you feel like you understood the concept well.

The exception was The Ritual, which felt more like a raid encounter in that you start in above the main arena, able to see the boss, the two wizards that you'll have to deal with... and that's it. Everything else, you have to piece it together on your own, and that was great. There was just enough in terms of context clues that Sammy figured out what we were supposed to do almost immediately after we realized that the left and right Mirror took you to different floors with different codes.
Fundamentally it was the crystal mechanic again, but I did enjoy the Savathun's Song callback with the void orb. The boss herself was fairly easy, but the "we're coming for you" setup was great, so she was more of a victory lap than anything, making her quick defeat all the sweeter.

The one downside to the campaign was the lack of dedicated platforming puzzles. Timed platforms just don't quite land the same way as dedicated environmental navigation.

Also, Hive Guardians are what Champions should have been.

Solo Legend, they're just a tanky major with a 1HK mechanic. A solid replacement for champions that keeps you on your toes. Nothing particularly exciting though.

Co-op Legend? Whatever you're doing, it stops when they show up. Bungie did a good job of placing them in places that can set you back a good ways if you wipe, and their ability to throw some particularly painful grenades and supers behind cover is great. Hunkering down (especially close together) was suicide. You gotta keep moving and drawing their Supers into pillars and walls after they launch them, and look for spots to suppress and overwhelm them. Every time one of those Hunter Guardians fell, it was a mad dash to make sure that particular jerk would not revive, even if it meant dying for the execution. Just like our Guardians, Solar Hunters are the ones worthy of respect and fear. Truly great stuff.

On a similar note, I love that running out in the open was the best way to engage Savathun during her final fights. Taking cover was going to get you killed. I absolutely love boss fights where you are dancing with the enemy that you're fighting as opposed to relying on cheap shots because the game punishes you unfairly for exposing yourself. And even though there are invincibility phases during the final fight, the simple teamwork and cycle to make Savathun vulnerable again made the callout of "one more phase, wife!" surprise me with how stoked I felt as opposed to annoyed, because we had the three wizards down to an art.

It's funny that Sammy got impatient with her hints, and she went ahead and bought Dying Light 2, and while it's a great sequel to the first game, we were itching to set aside proper evenings to tackle each level in The Witch Queen, and we only played that one evening of DL2 so far. Considering that we played through the first Dying light three or four times, that's high praise for what Bungie accomplished with this co-op campaign.

I'm sure that Solo Legendary, I'd probably give it a 7/10, but the great fun that had Sammy and I screaming and cackling throughout easily make it a 10/10 experience, even if the story and characters were a bit on the uneven side (that revelation cutscene where we find out that the Hive were always supposed to be worthy of the Light, but were tricked almost made Sammy cry though, It was pretty fantastic).

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Not that I wish to imply that the opinions of the folks who depend on the game being as easy as possible are invalid, but... I mean. Y'all can play how you want!

I just finished the campaign. Playing through on legendary was the most fun I’ve had in a shooter in a long time. It was perfect.

So it apparently turns out that there are three difficulties in the game: Normal, Solo Legendary, and Co-op Legendary. I agree with your point that Solo Legendary should really be the game's default difficulty. It keeps you on your toes during every engagement, but without making you feel like you need to over-specialize your loadout or spend your time peeking from cover between heals like most of the "difficult" content in the game. I tried doing the first mission Solo, and it was neat, as I was constantly mid-to low health if I wasn't mobile, but my only deaths were self-inflicted:

See how it's a good balance of "going through the motions" while requiring me to use my whole kit to avoid dying? That's what I wish the game offered in all areas. Ultimately though, it did feel a bit underwhelming, because I'd done these missions in Co-Op Legendary, which was a whole different beast.

If you want the most bang for your buck, grab a partner and run through these missions together. The difficulty jump goes from "this should be the default" to "Sweet Jesus, is that an Ogre!?" Sammy and I were hootin' and hollering throughout the entire run, and even hit a couple of walls where we had to rethink our approach (and Sammy actively engaged with the Armor mods for the first time ever!).
I loved the chill when we heard an Ogre's roar before we saw it, because that meant it was time to move. I loved the parts where the game lures you into a section, only to spawn enemies behind you, because it meant that you better have some real tricks up your sleeve.
And when a Hive Guardian spawned? Cover wasn't safe anymore, and was time to split up, lest we die together.

It's funny that I hardly got a single clip of our co-op run, but I think it's because most of the amazing gameplay moments were chained to another without time to breathe, and when the two reward chests popped, it was time to set the controller down for a couple of minutes and discuss the crazy moments, saves, and mistakes that we had clawed our way through.
Designer Alex Pfeiffer put it best in this PSBlog interview:
“We wanted to make the campaign missions feel a little bit more like a dungeon. Dungeons and Exotic missions like Presage are very aspirational and are very sophisticated, but not everybody gets to experience them. They’re very difficult, they require you to put a team together, and so we wanted to extract what makes those things special and bring it to a wider audience.”

The encounters did a great job of mimicking the combat portions of Dungeons like Pit of Heresy and Presage, where your only hope is to be just as aggressive as the enemy, because there is an objective that you have to complete at all costs, and the enemy won't let up until you succumb or succeed. The chests that popped up at the end of every major encounter truly felt earned. This contrasts with strikes, where for the most part there's more of a trek with enemies scattered between until you get to an arena encounter or two where you have to open a door that the last enemy drops the key to.

And as far as challenge? Almost across the board, It was the best that Bungie's done yet. From objectives that keep you pushing forward, making the Peek-and-hide gameplay ineffective, to the lack of Champions that would force you into specific weapons and playstyles, it was liberating without letting us get too comfortable with a singular approach, as we did have to reassess our loadouts for certain encounters depending on what the enemies were throwing at us. Sammy started the campaign with a shotgun, and ended it with a sniper/bow build, while I developed a Void well build over the course of the campaign.

The boss fights are all really fun! And I love that there are some actual puzzle mechanics through the campaign (even as light as they are). What a cool, fun experience.

I love that for most of them, the mechanics of the boss fight are ones you've been employing throughout the level (except for The Ritual, but we'll get back to that), and they don't really repeat (other than the Crystal shattering). When the Boss showed up, there didn't have to be a trial and error period where we wiped until something clicked, it just came down to identifying the encounter space and already knowing what to look out for (The final encounter of Ghosts is a great example of this). While not quite on the same level of Titanfall 2's per-level gimmicks, it was enough that no mechanic overstayed its welcome, while making you feel like you understood the concept well.

The exception was The Ritual, which felt more like a raid encounter in that you start in above the main arena, able to see the boss, the two wizards that you'll have to deal with... and that's it. Everything else, you have to piece it together on your own, and that was great. There was just enough in terms of context clues that Sammy figured out what we were supposed to do almost immediately after we realized that the left and right Mirror took you to different floors with different codes.
Fundamentally it was the crystal mechanic again, but I did enjoy the Savathun's Song callback with the void orb. The boss herself was fairly easy, but the "we're coming for you" setup was great, so she was more of a victory lap than anything, making her quick defeat all the sweeter.

The one downside to the campaign was the lack of dedicated platforming puzzles. Timed platforms just don't quite land the same way as dedicated environmental navigation.

Also, Hive Guardians are what Champions should have been.

Solo Legend, they're just a tanky major with a 1HK mechanic. A solid replacement for champions that keeps you on your toes. Nothing particularly exciting though.

Co-op Legend? Whatever you're doing, it stops when they show up. Bungie did a good job of placing them in places that can set you back a good ways if you wipe, and their ability to throw some particularly painful grenades and supers behind cover is great. Hunkering down (especially close together) was suicide. You gotta keep moving and drawing their Supers into pillars and walls after they launch them, and look for spots to suppress and overwhelm them. Every time one of those Hunter Guardians fell, it was a mad dash to make sure that particular jerk would not revive, even if it meant dying for the execution. Just like our Guardians, Solar Hunters are the ones worthy of respect and fear. Truly great stuff.

On a similar note, I love that running out in the open was the best way to engage Savathun during her final fights. Taking cover was going to get you killed. I absolutely love boss fights where you are dancing with the enemy that you're fighting as opposed to relying on cheap shots because the game punishes you unfairly for exposing yourself. And even though there are invincibility phases during the final fight, the simple teamwork and cycle to make Savathun vulnerable again made the callout of "one more phase, wife!" surprise me with how stoked I felt as opposed to annoyed, because we had the three wizards down to an art.

It's funny that Sammy got impatient with her hints, and she went ahead and bought Dying Light 2, and while it's a great sequel to the first game, we were itching to set aside proper evenings to tackle each level in The Witch Queen, and we only played that one evening of DL2 so far. Considering that we played through the first Dying light three or four times, that's high praise for what Bungie accomplished with this co-op campaign.

I'm sure that Solo Legendary, I'd probably give it a 7/10, but the great fun that had Sammy and I screaming and cackling throughout easily make it a 10/10 experience, even if the story and characters were a bit on the uneven side (that revelation cutscene where we find out that the Hive were always supposed to be worthy of the Light, but were tricked almost made Sammy cry though, It was pretty fantastic).

Yeah gotta say, I've jumped into co-op legendary with a friend a few times and we got our teeth kicked in.

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