I thought they did a fantastic job updated and changing the raid without ruining it. Props to the team who pulled that off. Once the contest mode was over, it became a lot easier to run.

One of the best differences: I got to run a lot of Destiny with y'all this last weekend and it was fantastic to not feel behind because of light-level etc. None of our groups finished because we were mostly on different schedules, but it was really fun to hang out and run down memory lane. I ran with two groups who made it to the Templar, and then did a pickup to push to the gatekeepers.

Anyhow, how did you feel about it? Did you finish? What weapons did you get and do they live up to your memory?

I thought they did a fantastic job updated and changing the raid without ruining it. Props to the team who pulled that off. Once the contest mode was over, it became a lot easier to run.

One of the best differences: I got to run a lot of Destiny with y'all this last weekend and it was fantastic to not feel behind because of light-level etc. None of our groups finished because we were mostly on different schedules, but it was really fun to hang out and run down memory lane. I ran with two groups who made it to the Templar, and then did a pickup to push to the gatekeepers.

Anyhow, how did you feel about it? Did you finish? What weapons did you get and do they live up to your memory?

I liked when the contest mode ended; I don't mind hard, I guess i don't really like hard + precise + dependent on a variety of skill levels. Normal mode isn't trivial; it didn't become a cakewalk when contest mode ended, it just became easier to focus on the OTHER stuff.

We finished. We pounded our heads against the wall on Templar (mostly due to muscle memory - doing damage from the top teleport position leaves you wide open to the minotaurs that spawn behind you, instead of at the bottom of the stairs), then regrouped Sunday morning (before reset) and knocked it out by changing strats. I'll leave spoilers out of this post, but there are a couple of things that we changed that made us think "what were we thinking?"

I got a Fatebringer (not thrilled with the roll - Thresh/Adrenaline Junkie - but looking forward to something closer to the original), a Praedyth's Revenge (haven't had time to test it yet, but it's got a pretty nice roll - Quickdraw/Opening Shot with Arrowhead Brake and Tactical Mag), and a Hezen Vengeance (also no test). Also got a couple of pieces of armor.

Fatebringer almost feels familiar, until reload. No Outlaw feels WRONG.

No Mythoclast for anyone in our group. :(

Oh: I agree with your "they did a good job updating without making a mess". I'm not sure I felt that way at the start - but I do now.

I thought they did a fantastic job updated and changing the raid without ruining it. Props to the team who pulled that off. Once the contest mode was over, it became a lot easier to run.

Totally. I love the changes/challenge almost universally (and I'll take a series of Wyverns over defending the confluxes for 10 minutes any day).
It was neat to explore these familiar spaces with different goals (even something as simple as looking for the third "Oracle" to open the chest room was a fun time, since we were all involved). Also, remember that time I got separated and pointed out a capture plate that wasn't there before? Turns out that is indeed new, and it addresses an issue we brought up regarding a portal, but that's for another time).

I just want to say, though. I hope whoever added Cyclopses to the capture stage drops their vat of chili. I mean, what's this crap?

One of the best differences: I got to run a lot of Destiny with y'all this last weekend and it was fantastic to not feel behind because of light-level etc. None of our groups finished because we were mostly on different schedules, but it was really fun to hang out and run down memory lane. I ran with two groups who made it to the Templar, and then did a pickup to push to the gatekeepers.

My favorite thing was the slow build of a well-oiled machine. We adapted on the fly really well once we found the walls to bash against, and went from struggling to finding ideal strats, sometimes wordlessly (such as when INSANE realized that he could handle the entirety of R-Oracle killing by himself, and Blaze and I just focused on keeping the heat off him without a word, and we blasted through that stage after that).
Contrast this clip with the one above:

You're welcome, right side.

With the exception of Champions, which I still think are a poor addition to the sandbox period.

The rest of the changes are great. Love the Wyverns during Confluxes, and I liked the Cyclops while opening the door, unlike Korny. I really dig Oracles now. Having to hit them in the correct order adds just enough extra to that encounter.

I’ll be interested to see what Gatekeeper and Atheon are like.

Also, please Bungie, make contest selectable. I’d love to go in on Contest mode with the benefit of a full set of raid gear with the mods. I think it might be the perfect difficulty. Maybe the new Master mode will hit that feeling.

What I was able to do was really fun (up to Gatekeepers), and having the difficulty cranked up with Contest mode was definitely what I like. It really forced us to iterate and make those small adjustments that add up to success.

The mechanic changes were cool (I'm excited about what I've read about Gatekeepers/Atheon) and seem pretty natural. The improved graphics and sound were great - the thunder echoing in the distance as the encounters ramped up was especially noticeable, and not something I remembered from the original. Being forced to warp through the door at the end of the jumping puzzle was a little disappointing though, did that happen to everyone?

What I was able to do was really fun (up to Gatekeepers), and having the difficulty cranked up with Contest mode was definitely what I like. It really forced us to iterate and make those small adjustments that add up to success.

The mechanic changes were cool (I'm excited about what I've read about Gatekeepers/Atheon) and seem pretty natural. The improved graphics and sound were great - the thunder echoing in the distance as the encounters ramped up was especially noticeable, and not something I remembered from the original. Being forced to warp through the door at the end of the jumping puzzle was a little disappointing though, did that happen to everyone?

I’ve seen footage of that door opening in the new version, and it looks awesome. Not sure why we all got the Joining Allies thing, but it was a bummer to have that happen on the first run.

Being forced to warp through the door at the end of the jumping puzzle was a little disappointing though, did that happen to everyone?

We walked through as a group, actually, and it was pretty impressive. I didn't know there was a Joining Allies mechanic, but I'm glad we inadvertently avoided it!

Being forced to warp through the door at the end of the jumping puzzle was a little disappointing though, did that happen to everyone?

We walked through as a group, actually, and it was pretty impressive. I didn't know there was a Joining Allies mechanic, but I'm glad we inadvertently avoided it!

That’s the weird thing. We all showed up as a group, and every single one of us was warped in with no opening at all.

Can someone explain all the changes?

Opening the door feels like it has more enemies in numbers, and also adds a Cyclops at each plate that wreaks havoc.

Confluxes are shorter waves but add Wyverns (big new powerful Vex chicken things added in Beyond Light).

Oracles now must be shot in order. The Oracles ring out in sequence twice, then they all spawn at once and must be killed in order. It starts with 3 spawning, then adds 1 each round until the full 7 are up. Templar is basically the same, only keeps the Oracles needing to be killed in correct sequence, although only 3 spawn. The Relic no longer cleanses in the Templar encounter, so you have to use the pool in the center. You can no longer shoot yourself out of the detain bubble and must have someone else shoot you out.

Gorgon maze is basically the same. There are 3 new switches that must be found and shot to open the door to the secret chest.

Gatekeeper is now juggling the Relic between right and left Portals to kill a shielded Minotaur that can only be killed by the Relic who is going to sacrifice at Confluxes in each side. You do this a few times until the central Conflux spawns in the present, then defend it from a few waves and done.

Atheon is again mostly the same, but it carries over Oracles needing to be killed in order. The home team watches the Oracles spawn in and calls out the order for the away team to shoot. There are three rounds of three Oracles before damage phase. Detain carries over here, making the center platform strat a bit more dangerous, as if someone gets detained there, it detains everyone and no one is left to shoot anyone else out.

I think that’s it. It looks stunning, the revamped Vault looks incredible

Now that we finished Gatekeeper and Atheon, yeah, it’s a great reprisal of a great raid. The new Oracle mechanics are great, and I genuinely love the Relic juggling for Gatekeeper.

"Do not go gentle into that good night,

"Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

"Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

I think all the changes are great! It feels really good/balanced with all the new abilities and weapons in D2. 10/10

Extra special thanks to Claude, Korny, F000CH, and Speed for letting me and a buddy finish off Atheon last night. (We had gotten to him on Sunday but hadn't managed to clear it)

And here is our one-phase templar kill on Sunday:

I genuinely love the Relic juggling for Gatekeeper.

That was honestly the most fun I have ever had during Destiny raids and that's saying something.

I’ll get the contest mode gripe out of the way first: I like the fact that an extra challenging version of the raid with a prestigious reward exists on day 1, but I think “normal mode” should also be active and selectable. Let the sweats and the streamers go hard with challenge mode, and let everyone else who just wants to enjoy the raid go into normal mode.

That out of the way, VoG is still a fantastic raid. The updated visuals are gorgeous, and the loot is exciting. There’s an atmosphere of mystery and exploration that no other raid matches, IMO.

Regarding the updated mechanics: I’m torn. At first glance, all the changes seem fine or even good. But my concern is that they’ve pushed VoG into the same callout-heavy direction that many subsequent raids have gone, and in my experience that has a negative impact on the long-term enjoyment factor of a raid. I’m of the belief that the first few times through a raid should be an exciting challenge, but at a certain point they work best as a fun way to socialize with friends while chasing sweet loot. Raids like the original VoG, Crota, Scourge of the Past, and Deep Stone Crypt all work beautifully in this regard. They’re just simple and loose enough that an experienced raid group can relax a bit, chat and laugh together in between callouts. But when raids become too mechanically ornate and callout-heavy (Last Wish, King’s Fall, Crown of Sorrow, Spire of Stars), the simple need to keep comms clear for vital callouts reduces the ability to socialize as a group. It makes completing the raid the first time feel like a greater accomplishment, but greatly diminishes my desire to repeat it over and over with friends.

It’s way too early for me to know where this new VoG lands on that spectrum. But it certainly requires more callouts than the original version, and I’m not sure I like that, long term.

I genuinely love the Relic juggling for Gatekeeper.

That was honestly the most fun I have ever had during Destiny raids and that's saying something.

Still gotta be Mines and Argos in Eater of Worlds for me, but the feeling is very similar.

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Regarding the updated mechanics: I’m torn. At first glance, all the changes seem fine or even good. But my concern is that they’ve pushed VoG into the same callout-heavy direction that many subsequent raids have gone, and in my experience that has a negative impact on the long-term enjoyment factor of a raid. I’m of the belief that the first few times through a raid should be an exciting challenge, but at a certain point they work best as a fun way to socialize with friends while chasing sweet loot. Raids like the original VoG, Crota, Scourge of the Past, and Deep Stone Crypt all work beautifully in this regard. They’re just simple and loose enough that an experienced raid group can relax a bit, chat and laugh together in between callouts. But when raids become too mechanically ornate and callout-heavy (Last Wish, King’s Fall, Crown of Sorrow, Spire of Stars), the simple need to keep comms clear for vital callouts reduces the ability to socialize as a group. It makes completing the raid the first time feel like a greater accomplishment, but greatly diminishes my desire to repeat it over and over with friends.

You definitely have a point there. As a musician, though, I thought you'd breeze through those :p

Regarding the updated mechanics: I’m torn. At first glance, all the changes seem fine or even good. But my concern is that they’ve pushed VoG into the same callout-heavy direction that many subsequent raids have gone, and in my experience that has a negative impact on the long-term enjoyment factor of a raid. I’m of the belief that the first few times through a raid should be an exciting challenge, but at a certain point they work best as a fun way to socialize with friends while chasing sweet loot. Raids like the original VoG, Crota, Scourge of the Past, and Deep Stone Crypt all work beautifully in this regard. They’re just simple and loose enough that an experienced raid group can relax a bit, chat and laugh together in between callouts. But when raids become too mechanically ornate and callout-heavy (Last Wish, King’s Fall, Crown of Sorrow, Spire of Stars), the simple need to keep comms clear for vital callouts reduces the ability to socialize as a group. It makes completing the raid the first time feel like a greater accomplishment, but greatly diminishes my desire to repeat it over and over with friends.

You definitely have a point there. As a musician, though, I thought you'd breeze through those :p

Destinyraider is the website I made back in D1, and I made a bunch of VoG maps to go along with it. Cool to see this getting used :)

And as far as the musical notes go, I don’t quite have perfect pitch, although on my best days I’m close. With some practice, I might be able to pull it off :)

Thanks for the invite last night! So... I'm really terrible at reorienting myself in the Atheon fight for the callouts. Aside from feeling useless there, I'm really happy with the changes.

Also, let's all agree to put to rest the Venus/Mars, Left/Right, Past/Future, Red/Green callout confusion. I humbly submit that all DBO crews use the much easier distinction of Arid and Humid.

It's so easy because you can think of the A in arid as short for Alright. A-right. Atheon is A-theos, or anti-deity. So Opposite. Alright thus means opposite-right. So LEFT.

Humid, on the other hand, is like the borg drone Hugh.

Which eye is not borgified? His right eye! Don't worry, when you think of the his face, just flip it in your mind and you'll get the RIGHT answer.

Arid: Left
Humid: Right

Whose with me?

Thanks for the invite last night! So... I'm really terrible at reorienting myself in the Atheon fight for the callouts. Aside from feeling useless there, I'm really happy with the changes.

I’m still not sure I could effectively reorient the call-outs in my head to shoot them from the entrance platform. And I’m usually pretty good at being able to keep track of that sort of thing.

I could make the reoriented callouts from outside, but the perspective from within the portal is just skewed enough that even figuring out which Oracle is the correct one is more difficult than I would have expected.

I feel like they need a middle ground. Contest can be annoyingly difficult. Normal mode always feels like a cakewalk. Which, there’s room for that. But I always hate where raids end up, where everyone has their role and it ends up being an hour of mostly just standing in the e cactus correct position, killing enemies as they spawn because we know exactly when and where they’re going to come from.

I still think raids need more combat difficulty, and Contest provides that. I think Contest with a full set of raid armor with raid mods might approach the sweet spot.

Although I still wish we could see a raid that was more combat focused in general. I’d like to see combat become the primary focus, with something mechanical as an extra thing to manage (I’ll always go back to Skolas here, which I still believe is one of the best blends of combat and extra mechanics to manage). As it stands, the mechanics of the puzzle are the focus, while combat is just the thing that happens around the edges, and the combat already feels fairly trivial in Normal mode VoG.

I genuinely love the Relic juggling for Gatekeeper.

That was honestly the most fun I have ever had during Destiny raids and that's saying something.

Still gotta be Mines and Argos in Eater of Worlds for me, but the feeling is very similar.

Mines was a top tier encounter for sure.

There's one oracle that is exactly on top of the red portal (left for people facing Atheon, right for away team). Use that as a reference and then count up clockwise or something. There are 6 of them total. If you use the musical tones, two clockwise from that one is the first tone of the scale. Someone with perfect pitch won't even need to look!

SGA: Don't use actual clock references because you will stumble on directionality again.

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If I see a spinning fish, which eye do I shoot again?

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Or don't switch orientations nor use numbers. The teleported team can just run straight ahead to the opposite side of the room and just turn around. It's safe, the can drop the gatekeeper on the way, they can stay cleansed without worrying about ads, and they're in the same orientation as the person calling from the home team (the "herald"). Callouts become "left, right, center", or if there are two on a side "far left, near left, center"

-Chappy

Thanks for the invite last night! So... I'm really terrible at reorienting myself in the Atheon fight for the callouts. Aside from feeling useless there, I'm really happy with the changes.

I’m still not sure I could effectively reorient the call-outs in my head to shoot them from the entrance platform. And I’m usually pretty good at being able to keep track of that sort of thing.

I could make the reoriented callouts from outside, but the perspective from within the portal is just skewed enough that even figuring out which Oracle is the correct one is more difficult than I would have expected.

When we were doing the inside damage from the entrance plate, I simply imported two maps into a Photoshop document, and flipped one.

This stopped being necessary when we started doing damage from the exit plate, since the callouts were the same in both rooms.

Or don't switch orientations nor use numbers. The teleported team can just run straight ahead to the opposite side of the room and just turn around. It's safe, the can drop the gatekeeper on the way, they can stay cleansed without worrying about ads, and they're in the same orientation as the person calling from the home team (the "herald"). Callouts become "left, right, center", or if there are two on a side "far left, near left, center"

-Chappy

I tried to convince people to use this last night, and was told no. :)

Numbers worked fine, but this seemed easier to me.

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Less syllables is always better in my opinion. Numbers work just as well as positions. It also avoids the “is that near or far, inside or outside, left or right?” debate that always happens. I like the numbering scheme we used.

The issue isn’t the callouts, it’s just the way they spawn and the perspective from inside. It’s totally fine, after actually seeing it a few times it’s not really an issue.

Honestly, determining if it’s in the front or back row from outside is the biggest issue. I’m not sure if it’s the color or size or what, but the depth perception on those things is kinda weird.

Man, I guess when they redo king's fall it's gonna sound like this listening to all the new callouts:

Can't speak for the rest yet. I think I'll be allowed to play tomorrow night.

I feel like they need a middle ground. Contest can be annoyingly difficult. Normal mode always feels like a cakewalk. Which, there’s room for that. But I always hate where raids end up, where everyone has their role and it ends up being an hour of mostly just standing in the e cactus correct position, killing enemies as they spawn because we know exactly when and where they’re going to come from.

I still think raids need more combat difficulty, and Contest provides that. I think Contest with a full set of raid armor with raid mods might approach the sweet spot.

Although I still wish we could see a raid that was more combat focused in general. I’d like to see combat become the primary focus, with something mechanical as an extra thing to manage (I’ll always go back to Skolas here, which I still believe is one of the best blends of combat and extra mechanics to manage). As it stands, the mechanics of the puzzle are the focus, while combat is just the thing that happens around the edges, and the combat already feels fairly trivial in Normal mode VoG.

We differ. When I was done with Skolas I was done with Skolas. I think you answered your own question--maybe hard mode will give you what you want.

I’ll get the contest mode gripe out of the way first: I like the fact that an extra challenging version of the raid with a prestigious reward exists on day 1, but I think “normal mode” should also be active and selectable. Let the sweats and the streamers go hard with challenge mode, and let everyone else who just wants to enjoy the raid go into normal mode.

I think the world's first hoopla (free advertising) interferes with that idea.

That out of the way, VoG is still a fantastic raid. The updated visuals are gorgeous, and the loot is exciting. There’s an atmosphere of mystery and exploration that no other raid matches, IMO.

Regarding the updated mechanics: I’m torn. At first glance, all the changes seem fine or even good. But my concern is that they’ve pushed VoG into the same callout-heavy direction that many subsequent raids have gone, and in my experience that has a negative impact on the long-term enjoyment factor of a raid. I’m of the belief that the first few times through a raid should be an exciting challenge, but at a certain point they work best as a fun way to socialize with friends while chasing sweet loot. Raids like the original VoG, Crota, Scourge of the Past, and Deep Stone Crypt all work beautifully in this regard. They’re just simple and loose enough that an experienced raid group can relax a bit, chat and laugh together in between callouts. But when raids become too mechanically ornate and callout-heavy (Last Wish, King’s Fall, Crown of Sorrow, Spire of Stars), the simple need to keep comms clear for vital callouts reduces the ability to socialize as a group. It makes completing the raid the first time feel like a greater accomplishment, but greatly diminishes my desire to repeat it over and over with friends.

It’s way too early for me to know where this new VoG lands on that spectrum. But it certainly requires more callouts than the original version, and I’m not sure I like that, long term.

Don't disagree with any of the rest of your post. My two favorite raid experiences are doing it blind and being able to do it nearly blindfolded.

Don't disagree with any of the rest of your post. My two favorite raid experiences are doing it blind and being able to do it nearly blindfolded.

There is a satisfaction that comes with the mastery that leads to raids being a cakewalk, for sure. That doesn’t hold up long term for me. I think there’s an issue that needs to be addressed when a Gambit match becomes more interesting and difficult than the tenth week of a raid.

Keep in mind that I say that as someone who has done very few of the raid challenges and triumphs. Maybe those are actually what I’m looking for, but I don’t have a regular crew to raid with, so the chances of me doing those are effectively zero, except on the rare occasions your group needs a sub and I make the cut.

I've suggested you as a sub and I certainly will again. Maybe you don't play with me enough. Overcoming my weaknesses can be a pretty good challenge on its own. Some specific encounters remain challenging for a long time--Garden has a few of those. It took a long time to get to the point where you could bet on beating it.

My main point of agreement with Cruel is that I like it when things do go smoothly, when it feels less sweaty, and you can relax a little. Wiping is still pretty common in any raid I'm in, though, as is hitting a wall now and then for whatever reason. DSC is kind of an exception. I've probably had more flawless encounters in that raid than any other (excepting the space walk). I can't help but relish not being responsible for a wipe.

Don't disagree with any of the rest of your post. My two favorite raid experiences are doing it blind and being able to do it nearly blindfolded.

There is a satisfaction that comes with the mastery that leads to raids being a cakewalk, for sure. That doesn’t hold up long term for me. I think there’s an issue that needs to be addressed when a Gambit match becomes more interesting and difficult than the tenth week of a raid.

Keep in mind that I say that as someone who has done very few of the raid challenges and triumphs. Maybe those are actually what I’m looking for, but I don’t have a regular crew to raid with, so the chances of me doing those are effectively zero, except on the rare occasions your group needs a sub and I make the cut.

I somewhat agree... but for me, the crux of the issue is that at a certain point in every Destiny raid’s lifespan, I’m no longer running it for the pure enjoyment of the activity; rather, I’m chasing a specific piece of loot. I love Deep Stone Crypt. But after 15-20 completions, I was good. I’d had my fill. The only reason I kept doing 3 runs per week all the way up to 55 completions is that’s how long it took me to get the damn rocket launcher.

If completing raids in Destiny is meant to be a big achievement, then I’m fine with them being incredibly mechanically demanding and ornate. I’ll complete each raid a handful of times to get the experience and move on. But if raids are going to be filled with desirable loot AND acquiring that loot is a process that takes months, I think they need to be a little more “casual” in nature. Not easy, but I should be able to jump in with an LFG group and stand a good chance of completing it within an hour or so. Any more than that just isn’t tolerable after 40-50 completions, IMO.

I should also specify that I think adding some kind of challenge modes or higher difficulty setting is a great way to go as well, to provide a more challenging experience for the teams that want it.

I am completely with you there.

My solution has mostly just been to say “Fuck that loot,” and stopping regular raiding when I’ve had my fill. That was probably ten runs of DSC. I’d still love to run it occasionally, but not enough to LFG it, because I really only care to do it with friends. I don’t have Eyes of Tomorrow and probably never will. That sucks, but that’s just the nature of me having to find a balance in playing Destiny. Shit like that makes Destiny a worse game than it could be, but that’s clearly not going to change at this point.

The only reason I kept doing 3 runs per week all the way up to 55 completions is that’s how long it took me to get the damn rocket launcher.

That I don't have it, but I did get it to drop on the one time I ran my brother-in-law's character through DSC for it's one and only run.

So at the very least I get to play with it when I play his character...

The only reason I kept doing 3 runs per week all the way up to 55 completions is that’s how long it took me to get the damn rocket launcher.

That I don't have it, but I did get it to drop on the one time I ran my brother-in-law's character through DSC for it's one and only run.

So at the very least I get to play with it when I play his character...

Ugh, that’s so frustrating. Murphy’s law, right?

I guy in my LFG team last night referred to the players going through the portal as “outside” team, and I was instantly triggered. The fact that it bothered me makes less and less sense the more I think about it, lol.

The only reason I kept doing 3 runs per week all the way up to 55 completions is that’s how long it took me to get the damn rocket launcher.

That I don't have it, but I did get it to drop on the one time I ran my brother-in-law's character through DSC for it's one and only run.

So at the very least I get to play with it when I play his character...

Ugh, that’s so frustrating. Murphy’s law, right?

Haha yeah, I mean it's complicated, there's some element of chasing this stuff where it's a matter of "I just want to see what it's like" that was ultimately satisfied by that experience. If eyes of tomorrow became THE meta way of doing damage, that's when it'd hurt.

The only reason I kept doing 3 runs per week all the way up to 55 completions is that’s how long it took me to get the damn rocket launcher.

That I don't have it, but I did get it to drop on the one time I ran my brother-in-law's character through DSC for it's one and only run.

So at the very least I get to play with it when I play his character...

Ugh, that’s so frustrating. Murphy’s law, right?

Haha yeah, I mean it's complicated, there's some element of chasing this stuff where it's a matter of "I just want to see what it's like" that was ultimately satisfied by that experience. If eyes of tomorrow became THE meta way of doing damage, that's when it'd hurt.

Yep, there's the rub--the whole must have X to get a chance at getting X trap.

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I've decided to just use this helpful diagram from now on.

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Same here. I mean, the current Boss damage overlord is Anarchy, which has a very similar backstory to Eyes of Tomorrow.

Tricky thing is, in many ways, I prefer Raid exotics being acquired through random drops over a time-consuming quest, like Divinity. I just think bad luck protection needs to a) exist, b) actually work, and c) be tuned far more aggressively than it is right now. I see nothing wrong with guaranteeing the raid exotic by your 10th or 15th looted completion. The fact that people are still missing raid exotics after 50+ Looted completions is frankly insane, and should not be possible IMO.

Lol

Same here. I mean, the current Boss damage overlord is Anarchy, which has a very similar backstory to Eyes of Tomorrow.

Tricky thing is, in many ways, I prefer Raid exotics being acquired through random drops over a time-consuming quest, like Divinity. I just think bad luck protection needs to a) exist, b) actually work, and c) be tuned far more aggressively than it is right now. I see nothing wrong with guaranteeing the raid exotic by your 10th or 15th looted completion. The fact that people are still missing raid exotics after 50+ Looted completions is frankly insane, and should not be possible IMO.

Destiny is funny with RNG. Claude and I both have experiences are improbable for us both to have. With Iron Banner, after completing the quest, we have both had all 4 bounties drop in the kinetic slot. 8 potential slots. 4 Bounties.

(1/8)^4 = 1/4096 = 0.024 % chance you have bad luck

or

4095/4096 = 99.976 % chance you have good luck.

Now, that's the likelihood of it happening on any given Iron Banner. Assuming IB happens once a month and you've played since D2 started. That's roughly 45 IBs. Getting good luck 45 times in a row should should happen less frequently.

The math is (4095/4096)^45 = 98.907 % for escaping this fate.

Roughly 1.0927 % of frequent players should see this happen.

For it to happen to 2 people casually? Well that makes the numbers a little more funny, but 2 people in our clan of 100 (most who don't play that much) are part of the 1% club.

The fact that people are still missing raid exotics after 50+ Looted completions is frankly insane, and should not be possible IMO.

That's a feature man. Streamers play like crazy, so they'll have what other people don't and that's good for them.

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I mean, all I had to do was run an Atheon checkpoint once. Guess I should run the rest of the raid too.

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I mean, all I had to do was run an Atheon checkpoint once. Guess I should run the rest of the raid too.

Some people got Hawkmoon their first time too.

I mean, all I had to do was run an Atheon checkpoint once. Guess I should run the rest of the raid too.

Some people got Hawkmoon their first time too.

I gotta clean out my vault again. There are like 12 Hawkmoons clogging up the works.

I mean, all I had to do was run an Atheon checkpoint once. Guess I should run the rest of the raid too.

Someone I was running with last night did the “skip final fight” cheese, got Mythoclast on their first “run”, genuinely had no idea what it was, and was also the only one who ended up getting it.

Here’s hoping Bungie doesn’t fix that cheese until I get mine. :P