I know many of us have been speculating about what transmog will actually look like. Bungie's been dodging responding to it for weeks, but here's finally something: Cozmo says "maybe"

This seems like a stupid answer to me. Why bother doing it at all if you can't pull from Collections? With Vault space as it is (especially given the current armor mod/sunsetting implementation), there's no possible way to keep all the things.

I know many of us have been speculating about what transmog will actually look like. Bungie's been dodging responding to it for weeks, but here's finally something: Cozmo says "maybe"

This seems like a stupid answer to me. Why bother doing it at all if you can't pull from Collections? With Vault space as it is (especially given the current armor mod/sunsetting implementation), there's no possible way to keep all the things.

I get it. But I feel this is too overzealous a response and is in fact part evidence to WHY the answer is again and again... "Talk when it's ready", or whatever. If they do do this... heh heh do do (:P)... If they do transmogrify through collections, which I agree is the BEST case idea we publicly and collectively have, than does that make it harder to "vault" armors AKA removing stuff if they need to? I suppose not, and I guess I can't blame anyone for wonder'n what the hold up is. Of all the things we find important, THIS must be done now! FORGET that whole "expansion" "new supers" nonsense, FASHION WAITS FOR NO ONE Dah-LING!

Frankly, out from pattern alone, I expect whatever the solution becomes will be some "monkey paw" asterisk filled grind fest thanks to that designer who-for-some-reason-still-works-at-Bungie who enjoys doing their taxes so much that they think it's good gameplay design.

Sure, sure.

If something is worth doing, it’s worth doing right. Bungie seems content to half-ass just about everything anymore. If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing half-heartedly then moving on to some other half-baked idea.

I get it. But I feel this is too overzealous a response and is in fact part evidence to WHY the answer is again and again... "Talk when it's ready", or whatever.

"Talk when it's ready" isn't working. That's how we got stat trackers for our emblems nobody seems to care much about. If Bungie is going to be implementing things based on fan feedback (e.g., transmog) they should make sure their plan to implement them actually fits what the fan expectation is before committing significant resources.

Sure, sure.

If something is worth doing, it’s worth doing right. Bungie seems content to half-ass just about everything anymore. If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing half-heartedly then moving on to some other half-baked idea.

If Right = Unobtrusive Flow of Gameplay Enjoyment, than I hear ya. It's strange how getting it right can be so hard, and making it last. Usually if something is done right, than we won't notice, but for this transmogrify idea, man... it's front and center. Everyone what to be their own fabulous peacock, or in Wus case a paper bag (:P), and if it's not absolutely stupid simple to do, if it hangs at all in the design of it... man.

Despite the fervor in antiasaca- ...ption for transmog, I hope Bungie takes all the time they need. And I hope they are taking snapshots of our stuff in vaults and other wise... just in case. (*cough* hint hint)

Sure, sure.

If something is worth doing, it’s worth doing right. Bungie seems content to half-ass just about everything anymore. If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing half-heartedly then moving on to some other half-baked idea.

I was just joking yesterday with Claude about how Bungie has monkey-pawed their way into making me actually wish they’d gone ahead with D3 rather than continuing to “build” upon D2. As it stands now, building upon D2 is actually turning into removing most of the game anyway, but still not getting any of the engine/UI/mechanical leaps forward that typically come with a full blown sequel. Like, if they had just stopped developing D2 a year ago, it’d be a better game than it is right now, and far better than it is poised to become once sunsetting fully kicks in. We could all go play D3 if we wanted new hotness, or we could at least keep playing D2 in its full glory. As it stands now, Bungie can’t/doesn’t want to give us anything “new” without taking away what we have already paid for. But hey, we have next year’s Guardian Games and other top-notch content to look forward to, so I’m sure it’ll be fine ;)

At this point, I honestly just expect the worst, something obviously stupid and possibly worse than what we already have.

I half expect transmog to break the current ornament system, or something. Like, you can transmog, but you have to earn new versions of that gear to utilize it (when half the game is going away), and also those Evervese sets you spent $20 a pop on no longer work either.

What's the most ridiculously fucked up system we could get? Because that's what I expect.

I get it. But I feel this is too overzealous a response and is in fact part evidence to WHY the answer is again and again... "Talk when it's ready", or whatever.

"Talk when it's ready" isn't working. That's how we got stat trackers for our emblems nobody seems to care much about. If Bungie is going to be implementing things based on fan feedback (e.g., transmog) they should make sure their plan to implement them actually fits what the fan expectation is before committing significant resources.

Yeah. They definitely need to not let this idea run about wild, because at this point, anything else is wrong. Even if they have a comparable idea, if it's not at least what the fans expect (to whatever degree THAT may be) it looks like there will be hell to pay.

I swear, I've seen this before. Will anything be learned this time?

I see the post he responded to was basically DEMANDING a response, but... man. I can't help that it feels like a rock and a hard place. Silence would be as damning as saying anything but what is seeked. If I was in the position, I'd be asking the Devs to throw me a bone. Give me a list of concepts - ANYthing! I don't know why it has to be a secret process, yet at the same time, I've seen why as well. Every fandome has some scary bunch of fools.

If Bungie dared to take a leap of faith, would we reward them for even trying? Or is perfection our only metric? I don't know the answer to that, and even if I did, it keeps changing it seems. Most the folk at Bungie are Smart dumbasses, and most of the fans are Dumb smartasses.

Such is life.

I don’t think many actually demand perfection, just a little bit of common sense, which it seems is sorely lacking in a lot of their decisions. I’m not really sure I can believe they’re doing things in good faith anymore. Surely there’s someone at that studio that sees some of the common complaints about changes and asks “is this really a good idea?”

I don’t care about stat tracking on emblems, but it seems like it would be common sense to not institute a new system that erases old stats. No one was asking for overhauled emblem tracking. I think the new system is neat, but it’s not near enough to erase old stats for the people that actually care.

The collections tab in general is another. It is functionally useless if you can’t pull random rolled gear out of it. It was a complete waste of resources and time when I can’t actually do anything with it. DIM already has that functionality, and they’re more than content to let DIM fill in lots of other functionality gaps, so why not just let that one ride too?

In the cases where their decisions aren’t popular, they really need to step up and communicate why they think those were the best things to do.

- No text -

The collections tab in general is another. It is functionally useless if you can’t pull random rolled gear out of it. It was a complete waste of resources and time when I can’t actually do anything with it. DIM already has that functionality, and they’re more than content to let DIM fill in lots of other functionality gaps, so why not just let that one ride too?

Well, remember that the collections screen was designed for a world without random roll gear. It didn't became a waste of time until they listened to the community and brought back random rolls.

Collections was added at the exact same time as random rolls, so that’s definitely not true.

but for this transmogrify idea, man... it's front and center. Everyone what to be their own fabulous peacock

Oh you've never played with CyberKN's Titan have you?

I was just joking yesterday with Claude about how Bungie has monkey-pawed their way into making me actually wish they’d gone ahead with D3 rather than continuing to “build” upon D2. As it stands now, building upon D2 is actually turning into removing most of the game anyway, but still not getting any of the engine/UI/mechanical leaps forward that typically come with a full blown sequel. Like, if they had just stopped developing D2 a year ago, it’d be a better game than it is right now, and far better than it is poised to become once sunsetting fully kicks in. We could all go play D3 if we wanted new hotness, or we could at least keep playing D2 in its full glory. As it stands now, Bungie can’t/doesn’t want to give us anything “new” without taking away what we have already paid for. But hey, we have next year’s Guardian Games and other top-notch content to look forward to, so I’m sure it’ll be fine ;)

I mean, they have Matter to work on… Bungie's kind of always been a one game studio. The idea they could actively develop two games at once isn't realistic. People from Oni were rolled into Halo IMMEDIATELY after it finished, and even that wasn't enough. They had to pull from FASA too.

I stand corrected, then.

Collections was added at the exact same time as random rolls, so that’s definitely not true.

I forgot this, so I checked. Thank you Wu for Searchable Patchnotes!

In Patchnote 2.0, Dated "28th of August, 2018", it says under "Items & Economy" > "General"

• Collections (emblems and Exotics) that are found in the vault will be unavailable during the week of August 28-September 4, but they will return with 2.0.0.1 in the upcoming Collections tab

Key word "upcoming".

In Patchnote 2.0.0.1, Dated "4th of September, 2018", it says under "Sandbox" > "Weapons"

• Year 2 weapons now provide random perks when acquired

...and under "Items & Economy" > "Collections"...

• Includes any weapon, armor piece, Ghost Shell, ship, Sparrow, emblem, or shader players have earned since Warmind's release on May 8
  
• Except for Year 2 legendary armor and weapons with random rolls, all items can be reacquired through Collections, for a fee
  
  • The cost to reacquire an item scales based on what the item dismantles into

They both were added in Forsaken. They started tracking for Collections in Warmind.

It never made any sense to me from the very beginning. Sure, it was nice to be and to get rid of year 1 stuff, but it wasn’t a big enough deal that it ever felt like it was worth its implementation. It only makes less sense now with sunsetting and all of those weapons being functionality useless.

It’s exactly what I mean about half-baked ideas that never get fulfilled.

The collections tab in general is another. It is functionally useless if you can’t pull random rolled gear out of it. It was a complete waste of resources and time when I can’t actually do anything with it. DIM already has that functionality, and they’re more than content to let DIM fill in lots of other functionality gaps, so why not just let that one ride too?

I was tracking and agreeing with you until you said this. Do you mean the collections tab in general? or are talking about a specific aspect of it?

Cause if you are talking about it generally, then I feel like you need to step back and think at a grander perspective. Because when it comes to playing varied content it is the greatest tool to be able to pull out what I need. And I don't mean the maxed out perfect roll of some weapon. I mean, for example, a void scout or that one sword that has a single perk on it.

Why not use DIM? Cause I don't want to use a third party app for something that is much easier for me in game. What if I don't have my phone on me? Hell, what if I don't have a smart phone? I don't use DIM because I don't need DIM to have fun in Destiny. You make it sound like a required tool to efficiently play Destiny.

I'm all for you voicing your opinion about how Destiny is not to your liking, but please take some perspective and think about other players (likely the majority) before you blindly blast every single design choice that Bungie has made.

The collections tab in general is another. It is functionally useless if you can’t pull random rolled gear out of it. It was a complete waste of resources and time when I can’t actually do anything with it. DIM already has that functionality, and they’re more than content to let DIM fill in lots of other functionality gaps, so why not just let that one ride too?

I was tracking and agreeing with you until you said this. Do you mean the collections tab in general? or are talking about a specific aspect of it?

Cause if you are talking about it generally, then I feel like you need to step back and think at a grander perspective. Because when it comes to playing varied content it is the greatest tool to be able to pull out what I need. And I don't mean the maxed out perfect roll of some weapon. I mean, for example, a void scout or that one sword that has a single perk on it.

Why not use DIM? Cause I don't want to use a third party app for something that is much easier for me in game. What if I don't have my phone on me? Hell, what if I don't have a smart phone? I don't use DIM because I don't need DIM to have fun in Destiny. You make it sound like a required tool to efficiently play Destiny.

I'm all for you voicing your opinion about how Destiny is not to your liking, but please take some perspective and think about other players (likely the majority) before you blindly blast every single design choice that Bungie has made.

I think there might be some confusion here - collections gives you access to EVERYTHING that doesn't have a random roll that you've ever received. DIM lets you mess with stuff you have on your characters or in your vault. They certainly work together... but they're not really doing the same job at all.

And the idea that Collections is a worthless concept because you can't pull random rolls... eh. I use it almost every day for: exotics, shaders, emblems, ships, sparrows, year 1 guns I need for a specific reason... the list goes on. "Functionally useless" is objectively false.

(I guess if you play a game where you never use guns you don't use every day, or never change your shaders, or your ship, or your sparrow, or your emblem... yeah, then maybe it's useless. That's not even remotely how I play Destiny, though, so I'm having trouble connecting with it. Even if you ignore the fashion game, There are over 150 exotics, and I use maybe half a dozen regularly. The rest... they come out once in a while, when someone says "let's all run X", or whatever. The idea that I'd need to keep the other 140+ in my vault (taking up space that they don't need to take up, space I don't have to spare) seems silly.)

The collections tab in general is another. It is functionally useless if you can’t pull random rolled gear out of it. It was a complete waste of resources and time when I can’t actually do anything with it. DIM already has that functionality, and they’re more than content to let DIM fill in lots of other functionality gaps, so why not just let that one ride too?

I was tracking and agreeing with you until you said this. Do you mean the collections tab in general? or are talking about a specific aspect of it?

Cause if you are talking about it generally, then I feel like you need to step back and think at a grander perspective. Because when it comes to playing varied content it is the greatest tool to be able to pull out what I need. And I don't mean the maxed out perfect roll of some weapon. I mean, for example, a void scout or that one sword that has a single perk on it.

Why not use DIM? Cause I don't want to use a third party app for something that is much easier for me in game. What if I don't have my phone on me? Hell, what if I don't have a smart phone? I don't use DIM because I don't need DIM to have fun in Destiny. You make it sound like a required tool to efficiently play Destiny.

I'm all for you voicing your opinion about how Destiny is not to your liking, but please take some perspective and think about other players (likely the majority) before you blindly blast every single design choice that Bungie has made.

I think there might be some confusion here - collections gives you access to EVERYTHING that doesn't have a random roll that you've ever received. DIM lets you mess with stuff you have on your characters or in your vault. They certainly work together... but they're not really doing the same job at all.

Then I have no idea what he is talking about with DIM.

And the idea that Collections is a worthless concept because you can't pull random rolls... eh. I use it almost every day for: exotics, shaders, emblems, ships, sparrows, year 1 guns I need for a specific reason... the list goes on. "Functionally useless" is objectively false.

(I guess if you play a game where you never use guns you don't use every day, or never change your shaders, or your ship, or your sparrow, or your emblem... yeah, then maybe it's useless. That's not even remotely how I play Destiny, though, so I'm having trouble connecting with it. Even if you ignore the fashion game, There are over 150 exotics, and I use maybe half a dozen regularly. The rest... they come out once in a while, when someone says "let's all run X", or whatever. The idea that I'd need to keep the other 140+ in my vault (taking up space that they don't need to take up, space I don't have to spare) seems silly.)

Yeah, I play the same way. I have some of my favorite stuff I use on my character, but there are so many times that I need some random weapon. Before Collections I just had to hope that I had it somewhere in my vault and then up the light level or just play with whatever I have. Now, I am not sure I have touched my vault since that collections upgrade.

(I guess if you play a game where you never use guns you don't use every day, or never change your shaders, or your ship, or your sparrow, or your emblem... yeah, then maybe it's useless. That's not even remotely how I play Destiny, though, so I'm having trouble connecting with it. Even if you ignore the fashion game, There are over 150 exotics, and I use maybe half a dozen regularly. The rest... they come out once in a while, when someone says "let's all run X", or whatever. The idea that I'd need to keep the other 140+ in my vault (taking up space that they don't need to take up, space I don't have to spare) seems silly.)

Well, you described me. I can't remember the last time I pulled something from collections. Your point about exotics (at least the weapons) is noteable, but I like to keep them holding a slot in my vault, otherwise I'd be sharding them constantly, and I kinda like the masterwork kill counter.

You guys are really using Year 1 weapons and armor when you need something?

(I guess if you play a game where you never use guns you don't use every day, or never change your shaders, or your ship, or your sparrow, or your emblem... yeah, then maybe it's useless. That's not even remotely how I play Destiny, though, so I'm having trouble connecting with it. Even if you ignore the fashion game, There are over 150 exotics, and I use maybe half a dozen regularly. The rest... they come out once in a while, when someone says "let's all run X", or whatever. The idea that I'd need to keep the other 140+ in my vault (taking up space that they don't need to take up, space I don't have to spare) seems silly.)

Well, you described me. I can't remember the last time I pulled something from collections. Your point about exotics (at least the weapons) is noteable, but I like to keep them holding a slot in my vault, otherwise I'd be sharding them constantly, and I kinda like the masterwork kill counter.

I liked the masterwork kill counter until I ran out of space. Then I deleted every exotic (that didn't have an awesome roll) that was 20 levels below my current. Gained back a ton of space, never looked back. There are now a lot of exotics in my vault - but not 150.

You guys are really using Year 1 weapons and armor when you need something?

Occasionally. Something wants me to use a void pulse rifle. I don't have one in my vault. I go into collections, I grab one, I use it to do whatever. I finish, delete it.

That happens every couple of weeks or so. (Not a void pulse rifle, per se - just the "I need X, don't have it, can use a collections standin" decision.)

(I guess if you play a game where you never use guns you don't use every day, or never change your shaders, or your ship, or your sparrow, or your emblem... yeah, then maybe it's useless. That's not even remotely how I play Destiny, though, so I'm having trouble connecting with it. Even if you ignore the fashion game, There are over 150 exotics, and I use maybe half a dozen regularly. The rest... they come out once in a while, when someone says "let's all run X", or whatever. The idea that I'd need to keep the other 140+ in my vault (taking up space that they don't need to take up, space I don't have to spare) seems silly.)

Well, you described me. I can't remember the last time I pulled something from collections. Your point about exotics (at least the weapons) is noteable, but I like to keep them holding a slot in my vault, otherwise I'd be sharding them constantly, and I kinda like the masterwork kill counter.

I liked the masterwork kill counter until I ran out of space. Then I deleted every exotic (that didn't have an awesome roll) that was 20 levels below my current. Gained back a ton of space, never looked back. There are now a lot of exotics in my vault - but not 150.

Yeah, I don't even do this. I have my War Rigs that I keep on my person 24/7 and then there is every other exotic that I shard until I need it. I might keep 4-5 exotic weapons in my slots because I use them regularly enough.

You guys are really using Year 1 weapons and armor when you need something?

Occasionally. Something wants me to use a void pulse rifle. I don't have one in my vault. I go into collections, I grab one, I use it to do whatever. I finish, delete it.

That happens every couple of weeks or so. (Not a void pulse rifle, per se - just the "I need X, don't have it, can use a collections standin" decision.)

I'm the same. I have maybe a total of 10 (and that's pushing it) favorite non-exotic weapons that I keep and everything else I pull from collections.

The collections tab in general is another. It is functionally useless if you can’t pull random rolled gear out of it. It was a complete waste of resources and time when I can’t actually do anything with it. DIM already has that functionality, and they’re more than content to let DIM fill in lots of other functionality gaps, so why not just let that one ride too?

I was tracking and agreeing with you until you said this. Do you mean the collections tab in general? or are talking about a specific aspect of it?

Cause if you are talking about it generally, then I feel like you need to step back and think at a grander perspective. Because when it comes to playing varied content it is the greatest tool to be able to pull out what I need. And I don't mean the maxed out perfect roll of some weapon. I mean, for example, a void scout or that one sword that has a single perk on it.

Why not use DIM? Cause I don't want to use a third party app for something that is much easier for me in game. What if I don't have my phone on me? Hell, what if I don't have a smart phone? I don't use DIM because I don't need DIM to have fun in Destiny. You make it sound like a required tool to efficiently play Destiny.

I'm all for you voicing your opinion about how Destiny is not to your liking, but please take some perspective and think about other players (likely the majority) before you blindly blast every single design choice that Bungie has made.

I think there might be some confusion here - collections gives you access to EVERYTHING that doesn't have a random roll that you've ever received. DIM lets you mess with stuff you have on your characters or in your vault. They certainly work together... but they're not really doing the same job at all.

Then I have no idea what he is talking about with DIM.

And the idea that Collections is a worthless concept because you can't pull random rolls... eh. I use it almost every day for: exotics, shaders, emblems, ships, sparrows, year 1 guns I need for a specific reason... the list goes on. "Functionally useless" is objectively false.

(I guess if you play a game where you never use guns you don't use every day, or never change your shaders, or your ship, or your sparrow, or your emblem... yeah, then maybe it's useless. That's not even remotely how I play Destiny, though, so I'm having trouble connecting with it. Even if you ignore the fashion game, There are over 150 exotics, and I use maybe half a dozen regularly. The rest... they come out once in a while, when someone says "let's all run X", or whatever. The idea that I'd need to keep the other 140+ in my vault (taking up space that they don't need to take up, space I don't have to spare) seems silly.)

Yeah, I play the same way. I have some of my favorite stuff I use on my character, but there are so many times that I need some random weapon. Before Collections I just had to hope that I had it somewhere in my vault and then up the light level or just play with whatever I have. Now, I am not sure I have touched my vault since that collections upgrade.

It’s funny, I’m the polar opposite. Aside from shaders, I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times I’ve used the collections tab. For me, it is just about useless. I keep all my exotics and pinnacle weapons on my characters or in my vault. Aside from that, everything is use is a random-rolled legendary. If the collections tab allowed me to re-acquire random rolled legendary weapons, that would be a different story. Most of my vault space would be cleared up. But as it stands now, nothing that I’d ever want to pull from collections is able to be pulled from collections.

(I guess if you play a game where you never use guns you don't use every day, or never change your shaders, or your ship, or your sparrow, or your emblem... yeah, then maybe it's useless. That's not even remotely how I play Destiny, though, so I'm having trouble connecting with it. Even if you ignore the fashion game, There are over 150 exotics, and I use maybe half a dozen regularly. The rest... they come out once in a while, when someone says "let's all run X", or whatever. The idea that I'd need to keep the other 140+ in my vault (taking up space that they don't need to take up, space I don't have to spare) seems silly.)

Well, you described me. I can't remember the last time I pulled something from collections. Your point about exotics (at least the weapons) is noteable, but I like to keep them holding a slot in my vault, otherwise I'd be sharding them constantly, and I kinda like the masterwork kill counter.

I liked the masterwork kill counter until I ran out of space. Then I deleted every exotic (that didn't have an awesome roll) that was 20 levels below my current. Gained back a ton of space, never looked back. There are now a lot of exotics in my vault - but not 150.

Yeah, I don't even do this. I have my War Rigs that I keep on my person 24/7 and then there is every other exotic that I shard until I need it. I might keep 4-5 exotic weapons in my slots because I use them regularly enough.

You guys are really using Year 1 weapons and armor when you need something?

Occasionally. Something wants me to use a void pulse rifle. I don't have one in my vault. I go into collections, I grab one, I use it to do whatever. I finish, delete it.

That happens every couple of weeks or so. (Not a void pulse rifle, per se - just the "I need X, don't have it, can use a collections standin" decision.)

I'm the same. I have maybe a total of 10 (and that's pushing it) favorite non-exotic weapons that I keep and everything else I pull from collections.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that limit you to year 1 legendaries? This is not a criticism in any way (I’ll probably be the most vocal supporter of the “use whatever the heck you enjoy using” approach)... I just find it surprising, given how inferior most of the year 1 weapons are compared to everything since. Between the expanded perk options and the mod slots, D2’s year 2 & 3 weapons are substantially stronger than the static rolls from year 1. Again, not a knock.

I'm the same. I have maybe a total of 10 (and that's pushing it) favorite non-exotic weapons that I keep and everything else I pull from collections.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that limit you to year 1 legendaries? This is not a criticism in any way (I’ll probably be the most vocal supporter of the “use whatever the heck you enjoy using” approach)... I just find it surprising, given how inferior most of the year 1 weapons are compared to everything since. Between the expanded perk options and the mod slots, D2’s year 2 & 3 weapons are substantially stronger than the static rolls from year 1. Again, not a knock.

Maybe? I honestly don't play that much to notice. I think it is more than just Year one but I can't say for certain. But just the fact that I don't know means to me that I don't care enough :)

The weapons still work good for what I play with them. Not to mention, it's fun to pull out old guns that I haven't used in a long time. Like that one special Scout rifle that made things explode that was still a legendary.

I mean, new guns are fun and impressive because they are new, but year one guns are basically the same thing at this point, it's been so long since I've used them.

What you guys are describing sounds nice, but it requires completely ignoring the min/maxing aspects of the game that Bungie has baked into the current iteration of Destiny.

That's what my problem is - there are too many systems with diametrically opposed methods of engagement. Fully engaging with Armor 2.0 and Weapons 2.0 makes Collections almost completely useless and leaves you with countless annoying decisions the entire time you are playing the game. Using Collections makes the game more pleasant to navigate, but at the cost of reduced effectiveness. This is not the kind of decision a game should be asking you to make.

I'm the same. I have maybe a total of 10 (and that's pushing it) favorite non-exotic weapons that I keep and everything else I pull from collections.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that limit you to year 1 legendaries? This is not a criticism in any way (I’ll probably be the most vocal supporter of the “use whatever the heck you enjoy using” approach)... I just find it surprising, given how inferior most of the year 1 weapons are compared to everything since. Between the expanded perk options and the mod slots, D2’s year 2 & 3 weapons are substantially stronger than the static rolls from year 1. Again, not a knock.

Maybe? I honestly don't play that much to notice. I think it is more than just Year one but I can't say for certain. But just the fact that I don't know means to me that I don't care enough :)

The weapons still work good for what I play with them. Not to mention, it's fun to pull out old guns that I haven't used in a long time. Like that one special Scout rifle that made things explode that was still a legendary.

I mean, new guns are fun and impressive because they are new, but year one guns are basically the same thing at this point, it's been so long since I've used them.

Hah, I hear you there :)

I do believe that the only legendary guns which can be pulled from collections are year 1 weapons and pinnacle weapons, because they all have random rolls. While I haven’t checked recently, I believe year 1 weapons lack the mod slot that all year 2 and 3 weapons have, which can make a substantial difference in some cases. Just FYI :)

Well said

It serves mostly as a way to see if you’ve collected everything, since you can’t use it to reacquire like 80% of the gear in the game. And DIM could already track that.

Sure, using it to pull shaders is nice, but that’s literally the only thing I use it for.

That’s my point. It was half-baked from the start, and then it basically got abandoned. When they launched it they said they were looking into a way to pull random rolls. It’s been two years now with no word on that. Except you can pull random rolls on Ghosts and Sparrows, so it’s clearly possible.

What you guys are describing sounds nice, but it requires completely ignoring the min/maxing aspects of the game that Bungie has baked into the current iteration of Destiny.

That's what my problem is - there are too many systems with diametrically opposed methods of engagement. Fully engaging with Armor 2.0 and Weapons 2.0 makes Collections almost completely useless and leaves you with countless annoying decisions the entire time you are playing the game. Using Collections makes the game more pleasant to navigate, but at the cost of reduced effectiveness. This is not the kind of decision a game should be asking you to make.

I agree with what you are saying, but I feel like you are making it too black and white. You can have both things. For example, I still use the armor 2.0 and weapons 2.0 when I play. In fact at least half of the stuff I use still use this system. I haven't dug 100% into it because for my play style I don't need to.

However, when I play old raids or even the new ones, I have no need to Min-Max with the new system to effectively play them well. Bungie has said that they want you to play the way you want. You like to Min-Max way more than I do and you can do that. But you can't assume that everything is for every player. Just because collections was created does it mean it's meant for you. You sure can use it, but It seems you aren't the type of player who would use it. I however use it a lot.

I guess to sum it up, I feel like Collections and the 2.0 system is a sliding scale not a one or the other.

The collections tab in general is another. It is functionally useless if you can’t pull random rolled gear out of it. It was a complete waste of resources and time when I can’t actually do anything with it. DIM already has that functionality, and they’re more than content to let DIM fill in lots of other functionality gaps, so why not just let that one ride too?

I was tracking and agreeing with you until you said this. Do you mean the collections tab in general? or are talking about a specific aspect of it?

Cause if you are talking about it generally, then I feel like you need to step back and think at a grander perspective. Because when it comes to playing varied content it is the greatest tool to be able to pull out what I need. And I don't mean the maxed out perfect roll of some weapon. I mean, for example, a void scout or that one sword that has a single perk on it.

Why not use DIM? Cause I don't want to use a third party app for something that is much easier for me in game. What if I don't have my phone on me? Hell, what if I don't have a smart phone? I don't use DIM because I don't need DIM to have fun in Destiny. You make it sound like a required tool to efficiently play Destiny.

I'm all for you voicing your opinion about how Destiny is not to your liking, but please take some perspective and think about other players (likely the majority) before you blindly blast every single design choice that Bungie has made.

I think there might be some confusion here - collections gives you access to EVERYTHING that doesn't have a random roll that you've ever received. DIM lets you mess with stuff you have on your characters or in your vault. They certainly work together... but they're not really doing the same job at all.

Then I have no idea what he is talking about with DIM.

I think his unstated point was that without the ability to pull an item from collections, it is just there to tell you what you have not yet acquired, which you could do with DIM (in the collections tab)

Why not use DIM? Cause I don't want to use a third party app for something that is much easier for me in game. What if I don't have my phone on me? Hell, what if I don't have a smart phone? I don't use DIM because I don't need DIM to have fun in Destiny. You make it sound like a required tool to efficiently play Destiny.

I mean…It is? I suppose I am far more aware of the capabilities and benefits of DIM because know one of the developers, but I really think that even absent that I can't imagine trying to play the game without it (or some other inventory API tool). I'm not saying it is required to play, but to play efficiently? Yeah. for sure.

To get something I need that's on another char I will log off, log in that character, load the tower, move the item into the vault, log off, log back in with the right char, load the tower, pull it out of the vault, and then it's 20-30 minutes later? are people waiting for me during all of that? I'm going to leave an event to go to the tower to check to see if the postmaster is full or not? I have a dozen different versions of the same weapon. How am I going to compare them and choose what to keep? These are just the things that are baked into the gameplay loop. I have not even gotten into stuff like saved load outs or finding which vendors across 7 different locations will upgrade you at the given moment or doing the min-max stuff people talked about below.

I'm with you if your point is that it should not be this way, but yeah, it would be like playing with restraints. I don't need DIM to play Destiny the same way I don't need a headset.

(also FWIW, DIM is a web site not an app so you don't need a smartphone)

I agree with what you are saying, but I feel like you are making it too black and white. You can have both things. For example, I still use the armor 2.0 and weapons 2.0 when I play. In fact at least half of the stuff I use still use this system. I haven't dug 100% into it because for my play style I don't need to.

However, when I play old raids or even the new ones, I have no need to Min-Max with the new system to effectively play them well. Bungie has said that they want you to play the way you want. You like to Min-Max way more than I do and you can do that. But you can't assume that everything is for every player. Just because collections was created does it mean it's meant for you. You sure can use it, but It seems you aren't the type of player who would use it. I however use it a lot.

I guess to sum it up, I feel like Collections and the 2.0 system is a sliding scale not a one or the other.

Oh sure it's a spectrum, I just don't think it's purposeful and it's definitely counter-productive.

And actually, I'm not playing the way I want - I'd love to spend more time developing builds and using special seasonal mods, but I'm hamstrung by the agonizing gear organization time that requires. Maybe you would enjoy some of the new mod systems too, but you can't because of considerable amount of investment required.

I encounter this commonly with Chappy's raid group - I often suggest fun combinations of perks to try out, but sometimes this causes distress and confusion because people without the familiarity have to search through their vaults for the right combinations of elemental affinity and season (which will now have sunsetting appending on top of it). I'm 100% certain those same people would find engagement with these systems enjoyable if it weren't for the frictions (not Cody's micro$ frictions) involved.

At the end of the day, I simply can't believe that the systems Bungie is spending significant design capital on are intended for use by only the most masochistic of Destiny players. That's the whole point about this transmog response - implementing transmog without supporting it being used in a 100% fun way is nonsensical.

Then I have no idea what he is talking about with DIM.

I think his unstated point was that without the ability to pull an item from collections, it is just there to tell you what you have not yet acquired, which you could do with DIM (in the collections tab)

If that is true and it's his whole statement on collections, then that is a huge simplification of collections. I mean, that's fine if that's the only point he is trying getting across, but if that is the case then I feel like there should be far less animosity to the collections design if he is going to talk about it in general terms.

I encounter this commonly with Chappy's raid group - I often suggest fun combinations of perks to try out, but sometimes this causes distress and confusion because people without the familiarity have to search through their vaults for the right combinations of elemental affinity and season (which will now have sunsetting appending on top of it). I'm 100% certain those same people would find engagement with these systems enjoyable if it weren't for the frictions (not Cody's micro$ frictions) involved.

I don't usually want to jump in to a dog pile on what Bungie has or hasn't done, but I just have to comment on this one.

I have never paid attention to the season specific mods because it just gives me a headache to consider what build I'd do with who else to take advantage of being charged with light.

That said, I do enjoy (to some extent) how recent design changes in Destiny makes it easy to jump in and be effective, but if you want to get that final 5% oomf and a crunchy min/max problem to tackle, then they have it as an optional aside.

I think it's fair to say that I wouldn't even play Destiny if I didn't use DIM or something like it.

Why not use DIM? Cause I don't want to use a third party app for something that is much easier for me in game. What if I don't have my phone on me? Hell, what if I don't have a smart phone? I don't use DIM because I don't need DIM to have fun in Destiny. You make it sound like a required tool to efficiently play Destiny.

I mean…It is? I suppose I am far more aware of the capabilities and benefits of DIM because know one of the developers, but I really think that even absent that I can't imagine trying to play the game without it (or some other inventory API tool). I'm not saying it is required to play, but to play efficiently? Yeah. for sure.

To get something I need that's on another char I will log off, log in that character, load the tower, move the item into the vault, log off, log back in with the right char, load the tower, pull it out of the vault, and then it's 20-30 minutes later? are people waiting for me during all of that? I'm going to leave an event to go to the tower to check to see if the postmaster is full or not? I have a dozen different versions of the same weapon. How am I going to compare them and choose what to keep? These are just the things that are baked into the gameplay loop. I have not even gotten into stuff like saved load outs or finding which vendors across 7 different locations will upgrade you at the given moment or doing the min-max stuff people talked about below.

I'm with you if your point is that it should not be this way, but yeah, it would be like playing with restraints. I don't need DIM to play Destiny the same way I don't need a headset.

I guess I should have pointed out that I'm a casual player. And in my mind you can play efficiently probably to the 90% at least without using outside sources. I think I"m being generous on that too. I want to be efficient as well, and I can easily do that at my play level (casual) with just Destiny UI.

I will say that a third party app like DIM or the Destiny app is really required for transfers between characters without a huge hassle. But I will also say that multi-character playing isn't casual in my mind. But that's personal opinion. I haven't touched my other characters, and thus had to use an app in... a year?

I donno, I don't play nearly as much as you guys and I don't min-max basically at all. So maybe to do that stuff you need DIM to be efficient. I just don't think casual players need those. And I would bet that the majority of Destiny players are casual players. But I don't have time like I use to, so maybe I'm just not in tune to Destiny as I use to be.

(also FWIW, DIM is a web site not an app so you don't need a smartphone)

I don't know how this is any better? In my household that's even worse and my computer is even in the same room as my TV just across the room. I've tried DIM for what little I would use it for and it was way more complicated that I needed it for. That's not to say it isn't a good app, it's just not for me. I use the Destiny app because it's simple and it does what I need it to without being complicated.

The problem for me is that organization and actually engaging with the armor perks is a complete pain in the ass. The game can be totally played while ignoring that stuff. But how many people just ignore it because there’s no good way to manage it in game?

That’s ostensibly not what Collections was for, but it still speaks to my point: it’s a half-considered system to begin with, and it hasn’t grown with the changes made to the game to actually be helpful beyond the simplest tasks.

I realize I’ve fallen into my negativity bullshit again, so I’ll bow out now. I’ll just say it’s difficult not to. We’re coming up on Bungie hyping up the new hotness, but I find that very difficult to get excited about given the now years of detritus littering the game. I know that the collections system isn’t some amazing game selling feature like a new expansion or season, but it seems like they used to care about stuff like that, whereas now they just shove it out the door, call it good enough and then move on.

The problem for me is that organization and actually engaging with the armor perks is a complete pain in the ass. The game can be totally played while ignoring that stuff. But how many people just ignore it because there’s no good way to manage it in game?

I can't really speaks to this because I haven't gone full in on that system so maybe I'm that person?

That’s ostensibly not what Collections was for, but it still speaks to my point: it’s a half-considered system to begin with, and it hasn’t grown with the changes made to the game to actually be helpful beyond the simplest tasks.

I can believe the second point. But did Bungie actually say it was going to be what you want it to be? Maybe that's exactly what they want for it. a simple way to get the bare minimum for what you might need? But yeah, I agree that it needs to be upgraded with the seasons. I think that is their greatest failing of it personally.

I realize I’ve fallen into my negativity bullshit again, so I’ll bow out now. I’ll just say it’s difficult not to. We’re coming up on Bungie hyping up the new hotness, but I find that very difficult to get excited about given the now years of detritus littering the game. I know that the collections system isn’t some amazing game selling feature like a new expansion or season, but it seems like they used to care about stuff like that, whereas now they just shove it out the door, call it good enough and then move on.

You totally have your right to feel that way, I'm not putting that against you. I just had to put my two cents in about collections because for me and how I play it was the biggest boon in a long time. That's all :D

I can believe the second point. But did Bungie actually say it was going to be what you want it to be? Maybe that's exactly what they want for it. a simple way to get the bare minimum for what you might need? But yeah, I agree that it needs to be upgraded with the seasons. I think that is their greatest failing of it personally.

I guess that’s exactly the point I’m making. It’s the bare-minimum, and it sums up the whole game at this point. It’s Bare-Minimum the game. If Collections is exactly what they want it to be, that’s almost more disappointing than them just not prioritizing making it better even if they want it to be.

I realize I’ve fallen into my negativity bullshit again, so I’ll bow out now. I’ll just say it’s difficult not to. We’re coming up on Bungie hyping up the new hotness, but I find that very difficult to get excited about given the now years of detritus littering the game. I know that the collections system isn’t some amazing game selling feature like a new expansion or season, but it seems like they used to care about stuff like that, whereas now they just shove it out the door, call it good enough and then move on.

You totally have your right to feel that way, I'm not putting that against you. I just had to put my two cents in about collections because for me and how I play it was the biggest boon in a long time. That's all :D

I liked it too, when it was new. Its failure to provide any utility in actually managing my, you know, collections of gear has left me really disappointed though.