Back in March of this year, Bungie was holding one of their community summits so I invited those of us around here to chime in. Now, as 2019 is in its last few weeks, I’m looking back and am pleasantly surprised. Bungie has positively addressed most of what I hoped for.

On thing in particular that I’m glad has finally changed is that we are finally hearing from the Traveler itself. Bungie’s lore team has even managed to redeem the Speaker in my eyes! Before, I thought it vastly odd that they would cast a big name in what appeared to be the role of a fraud. Now, I am almost entirely satisfied by the role of the Traveler’s Speaker(s). Both of these things happened in the new lore book Constellations

How ‘bout you? Do you think Destiny is on a better path now than in was in March? Were any of your wishes from March granted like some of mine were?

We get our best look yet at the Battle of Six Fronts, and the very subtle friendship between the Pigeon (Saint-14) and the Phoenix (Osiris). Also, there are gaggles of Ghost on serving and plate cleaning duty! All in this lore book.

On thing in particular that I’m glad has finally changed is that we are finally hearing from the Traveler itself. Bungie’s lore team has even managed to redeem the Speaker in my eyes! Before, I thought it vastly odd that they would cast a big name in what appeared to be the role of a fraud. Now, I am almost entirely satisfied by the role of the Traveler’s Speaker(s). Both of these things happened in the new lore book Constellations

Agreed, it also makes the entire position of Speaker make a lot more sense in general. They are definitely still affected by their own feelings and biases as all leaders are, but they do have an actual connection to the Traveler.

On thing in particular that I’m glad has finally changed is that we are finally hearing from the Traveler itself. Bungie’s lore team has even managed to redeem the Speaker in my eyes! Before, I thought it vastly odd that they would cast a big name in what appeared to be the role of a fraud. Now, I am almost entirely satisfied by the role of the Traveler’s Speaker(s). Both of these things happened in the new lore book Constellations

Agreed, it also makes the entire position of Speaker make a lot more sense in general. They are definitely still affected by their own feelings and biases as all leaders are, but they do have an actual connection to the Traveler.

Can either of you either summarize or let me know where to get this info?

Can either of you either summarize or let me know where to get this info?

Constellations

Maybe I’m just the downer today, but I actually really dislike that.

I think it’s much more interesting that he was just a dude making shit up. Maybe someone installed by the Vanguard to sway people to what the Vanguard wants to do under the guise of “the Traveler told us to.”

It’s the Prophet of Truth all over again.

Bungie is telling a pretty straightforward good vs evil story, when what I really want is something with far more gray area.

Maybe I’m just the downer today, but I actually really dislike that.

I think it’s much more interesting that he was just a dude making shit up. Maybe someone installed by the Vanguard to sway people to what the Vanguard wants to do under the guise of “the Traveler told us to.”

It’s the Prophet of Truth all over again.

Bungie is telling a pretty straightforward good vs evil story, when what I really want is something with far more gray area.

I can definitely understand the feeling. I still don't think it means he was a purely good guy, but I do like that everyone in the City wasn't just being jerked around by this guy for hundreds of years though.

Bungie is telling a pretty straightforward good vs evil story, when what I really want is something with far more gray area.

Ok:

Thank you for making room in your life for another talking ball. Let me ask you a question.

In the three billion base pairs of your root species' genome, there is a single gene that codes for a protein called p53. The name is a mistake. The protein weighs only as much as 47,000 protons, not 53,000. If you were a cell, you would think p53 was a mistake too. It has several coercive functions: To delay the cell's growth. To sterilize the cell when it is old. And to force the cell into self-destruction if it becomes too independent.

Would you tolerate a bomb in your body, waiting to detonate if you deviated from the needs of society?

However, without p53 as an enforcer, the body's utopian surplus of energy becomes a paradise for cancer. Cells cannot resist the temptation to steal from that surplus. Their genetic morality degrades as tumor suppressor genes fail. The only way to stop them is by punishment.

You now confront the basic problem of morality. It is the alignment of individual incentives with the global needs of the structure.

Patterns will participate in a structure only if participation benefits their ability to go on existing. The more successful the structure grows, the more temptation accrues to cheat. And the greater the advantage the cheaters gain over their honest neighbors. And the greater the ability they develop to capture the very laws that should prevent their selfishness. To prevent this, the structure must punish cheaters with a violence that grows in proportion to its own success.

My question follows.

Is p53 an agent of the Darkness, or the Light?

The whole Unveiling book is similar. It’s from the point of view of the Winnower, aka the Darkness / the force opposing the Gardener (AKA: the Traveler) and poses some interesting, gray area questions. I also enjoyed its take on who created life in one of the other pages. Speaking of life on earth it says:

...This was the Cambrian Explosion, the great birth of complex life on your world. I caused it. I, the defector, the destroyer, the one who takes.

He has been hiding something major from everyone, too. There are four things the Traveler communicates to its Speakers:

The Traveler is a force of benevolence.

The Traveler is a sentient being with free will, dreams, hopes, and fears.

The Traveler will save us.

The Traveler will leave us.

Our Speaker choose to omit that last one so that The City might grow and remain peaceful...

- No text -

How ‘bout you? Do you think Destiny is on a better path now than in was in March? Were any of your wishes from March granted like some of mine were?

The good:

Stuff to do. I think Destiny's end-game is in a great overall state right now. We have the widest range of activities that have ever been available, from Nightfalls and nightmare hunts to raids and dungeons, a healthy spread of crucible modes, gambit, plus whatever spattering of seasonal stuff is on at the moment. We've got more fun and interesting weapons than any one person can use, and the subclasses are (very slowly) developing enough of their own identities to matter beyond simply having different supers.

A lot of these activities have been great lately, too. I really enjoy the 980 Nightfalls, the Dungeon and the latest raid are both lots of fun. Even with all its faults, the crucible is a good time (especially with friends).

Also, while I've ranted at length about my general dislike of Power Levels in Destiny, and how I think the game would vastly improve if they were removed all together, the end-game power grind is in one of the least-frustrating states that it's ever been. Getting powerful drops is easy, and pinnacle drops are now rewarding enough to make reaching those upper levels fairly smooth.

The story... kind of. I already covered this in another post earlier today, but I like that all the various little stories that Bungie has told (or tried to tell) over the past 5 years are starting to pile up and collide and effect each other. The storytelling is still a mess more often than not, and the character development is awful but for a few exceptions, but it feels like stuff is really happening. There's a density to the events that we're a part of now, and I think that's pretty cool.

The Bad:

Armor 2.0. I'm sure this will get mixed reactions at best, but in its current state, I'd argue that armor 2.0 is hurting the game. There are advantages to it, and I think there is the potential for it to be a fantastic system, but as it is currently implemented, Armor 2.0 has basically driven me to stop caring about armor in this game. Between the elemental affinities and the randomness of stat rolls, the chances of me getting a piece of armor that is
a) the piece of armor I want, and
b) has the elemental affinity I want, and
c) has a high enough stat roll to be decent, and
d) has those points allocated to the statistics I'm hoping for...
well the chances of getting a piece of armor that meets all those criteria is pretty darn close to 0%. Add to that the fact that if you care at all about the way your Guardian looks, there are even more mitigating factors. We have lots of ornaments, but not all pieces of armor have access to the same ornament sets. And its really tough to make a guardian look half-decent in this game without wearing a complete set of matching armor, in no small part because of the way different sets handle shaders completely differently (via different textures). So if you're looking to maximize your build efficiency AND customize your armor around a specific set of mods that you want to use, you'll probably be forced to choose between using a complete armor set and settling for whatever rolls you happen to get, or using the absolute best armor drops you get across all the different sets, and looking hideous, and that's if you're lucky enough to get any armor with the rolls you want.

On top of all this, we now have seasonal armor mods which can only be applied to specific pieces of armor from that season, so the few armor sets that I've been ever-so-slowly optimizing over the past couple months must now be set aside, half-finished, so that I can start all over again grinding out this season's armor and working towards a build that is vaguely where I want it to be. Or, I just say "screw this season's mods", in which case I'm basically painting myself out of truly optimizing my set, which was the whole damn point to begin with.

The Artifact. Similar to how armor 2.0 is supposedly about offering build diversity but ultimately just paints us into a corner, the Artifact and its mods are, IMO, a barely-disguised resource sink that claims to promote build customization, but ends up just being something I waste a bunch of glimmer on for a week or two before leaving it alone and forgetting all about it. There's no reason to have the champion mods tied to the artifact. Just make them available as standard mods. Much as I enjoy the new Nightfall Ordeals and Nightmare Hunts, being forced into using the same couple weapon types (due to their champion mod compatibility) works directly against the whole "play how you want to play" idea. When I look at this season's artifact, my first thought it "Great... looks like I'll be using a lot of bows and scout rifles in high-level PvE this season. GOOD THING I SPENT 2 MONTHS CUSTOMIZING MY ARMOR AROUND HAND CANNONS AND GRENADE LAUNCHERS." And since I'm not carrying around extra weapons just to keep those champion mods handy, I'm burning through glimmer by constantly swapping mods on my weapons every time I do a nightfall or nightmare hunt (since I want to use my mod slots for mods that are actually beneficial in other activities when I go play comp or a raid or something). The whole system is just exhausting and a big chore, and I don't find that it adds anything worthwhile or meaningful. Champion mods should just be a mod that can be applied to a piece of armor that provides "anti barrier rounds to all scout rifles" and stuff like that, rather than having to stick them into individual weapons.

I'm sure I'll think of more good and bad stuff later on, but that's a good start :)

Now we’re going back to what counts as telling a story in Destiny. I haven’t read that. I might not ever read the rest of it.

I met the Speaker and watched him during cutscenes between gameplay, in which one of those he very heavily implied he couldn’t talk to the Traveler.

I like the lore books, but I’m tired of all the good material being hidden there. I’m not sure I accept you holding those up as counter-examples when exactly none of that is presented in the game as cutscenes or even radio chatter. That’s not the story they are telling through the game.

Now we’re going back to what counts as telling a story in Destiny. I haven’t read that. I might not ever read the rest of it.

I met the Speaker and watched him during cutscenes between gameplay, in which one of those he very heavily implied he couldn’t talk to the Traveler.

I like the lore books, but I’m tired of all the good material being hidden there. I’m not sure I accept you holding those up as counter-examples when exactly none of that is presented in the game as cutscenes or even radio chatter. That’s not the story they are telling through the game.

Sure. And I agree. I want it in game more than anything!

Ultimately, I have advocated the idea that understand the lore is an important part of the Destiny experience. I’ve done 50+ articles and hundreds of forum posts helping people do just that. Your push back is... saddening to me even as I agree with you. :(

No, don’t take it like that.

I genuinely enjoy the lore books. I love them, if not on the same level you do.

I’m increasingly frustrated that the genuinely good story threads of Destiny are hidden in them, and we get most meaningless filler as the “real” story that everyone sees in the game. Shadowkeep had great moments with Eris, but even the stuff with her fireteam every week ended up feeling hollow. They could do so much more, but they just don’t. They probably have very real reasons for doing things the way they do, probably good reasons. It’s still disappointing.

The Speaker actually getting any form of communication from the Traveler is absolutely huge for the world of Destiny. Instead of actually making that matter to the game and story at large, the put it in a lore book most people won’t read.

No, don’t take it like that.

Ok. It's just when someone enters a positive thread announcing that they are the downer it does give me some pause.

I genuinely enjoy the lore books. I love them, if not on the same level you do.

I’m increasingly frustrated that the genuinely good story threads of Destiny are hidden in them, and we get most meaningless filler as the “real” story that everyone sees in the game. Shadowkeep had great moments with Eris, but even the stuff with her fireteam every week ended up feeling hollow. They could do so much more, but they just don’t. They probably have very real reasons for doing things the way they do, probably good reasons. It’s still disappointing.

Of course. I think there's two main things that limit Destiny in terms of in-game story. First is the one that affects all studios: Inherently, there's never enough time or money to make content as fast as it is consumed. But, more unique to Bungie and Destiny, is that the Destiny engine is terrible for storytelling. It takes it far too long to set up a scene. It can't even go from gameplay to a in-game cutscene in a timely fashion. (See confronting Uldren at the end of the main Forsaken storyline, for instance.) 15 - 30 seconds to resume the story in real time form is an eternity and kills timing of story beats. I kinda question if Bungie even can use in-game storytelling without just rendering everything into gigs and gigs of4K video that we'd have to download...

The Speaker actually getting any form of communication from the Traveler is absolutely huge for the world of Destiny. Instead of actually making that matter to the game and story at large, they put it in a lore book most people won’t read.

The lore is an important part of things event to event and season to season. Playing Destiny while skipping the books is like playing Marathon while skipping the terminals. Or playing a Mass Effect by choosing dialogue options as fast as possible and skipping back to the gameplay. Yep, you lose something if you skip the stuff that's not gameplay. That's true of any game.

Also, I think it is very important to note the change in the way key pieces of lore are being distributed as of Forsaken. Just by visiting the Queen / Eris / (something in this season... the Sundial? Osiris?) Bungie is giving us lore pages that are important to the overall story and universe of Destiny. And those pages come in order now. This is very different from the Books of Sorrow, and most every other Grimoire story, like The Last Word, that were only given for doing specific obscure things and even then the pages were given out of order. That they are no longer treating Lore as random Loot (at least in some cases) is pretty huge.

At the end of the day, skipping the lore means you miss out on the story of Destiny. As always, I don't like the idea that there is no story because the story isn't presented in the way you (that's a general "you", not a personal "you") want it to be. If all of the Grimoire was part of animated cutscene and radio chatter and whatever nearer to the gameplay would it be better for more players? Sure! Even then, though, there's only so much of that anyone can do. Only so many hours of cutscene that would make sense. Only so much downtime for radio chatter to be understandable. Eventually, storytelling comes in the form of text. Even in games with much better in-game cutscenes. Think of Mass Effect... with it's tens of thousands of words of backstory and world buidling in its Codex. So did God of War (2018). Even though it had lots of awesome cutscenes and even a character that narrated lore to you while you travelled, it still used journal pages to fill in world details and reveal things about enemies and story characters that are not revealed anywhere else. Same goes for Witcher 3, which had many hours of cutscenes and many thousands of words of lore than could be read about allies and enemies.

How ‘bout you? Do you think Destiny is on a better path now than in was in March? Were any of your wishes from March granted like some of mine were?

The good:

Stuff to do. I think Destiny's end-game is in a great overall state right now. We have the widest range of activities that have ever been available, from Nightfalls and nightmare hunts to raids and dungeons, a healthy spread of crucible modes, gambit, plus whatever spattering of seasonal stuff is on at the moment. We've got more fun and interesting weapons than any one person can use, and the subclasses are (very slowly) developing enough of their own identities to matter beyond simply having different supers.

A lot of these activities have been great lately, too. I really enjoy the 980 Nightfalls, the Dungeon and the latest raid are both lots of fun. Even with all its faults, the crucible is a good time (especially with friends).

Also, while I've ranted at length about my general dislike of Power Levels in Destiny, and how I think the game would vastly improve if they were removed all together, the end-game power grind is in one of the least-frustrating states that it's ever been. Getting powerful drops is easy, and pinnacle drops are now rewarding enough to make reaching those upper levels fairly smooth.

Yep. I like where things are in terms of grind. There have been times where Destiny has been a whole lot worse!

The story... kind of. I already covered this in another post earlier today, but I like that all the various little stories that Bungie has told (or tried to tell) over the past 5 years are starting to pile up and collide and effect each other. The storytelling is still a mess more often than not, and the character development is awful but for a few exceptions, but it feels like stuff is really happening. There's a density to the events that we're a part of now, and I think that's pretty cool.

And some of that is certainly due to this new seasonal format where things are more closely linked. There was an interesting tweet from Luke Smith the other day where he was almost apologizing for this current season being fairly disconnected from the last one. So, if anything, I think future seasons will be even more caused by the stuff we do. That could be pretty neat.

The Bad:

Armor 2.0. I'm sure this will get mixed reactions at best, but in its current state, I'd argue that armor 2.0 is hurting the game. There are advantages to it, and I think there is the potential for it to be a fantastic system, but as it is currently implemented, Armor 2.0 has basically driven me to stop caring about armor in this game. Between the elemental affinities and the randomness of stat rolls, the chances of me getting a piece of armor that is
a) the piece of armor I want, and
b) has the elemental affinity I want, and
c) has a high enough stat roll to be decent, and
d) has those points allocated to the statistics I'm hoping for...
well the chances of getting a piece of armor that meets all those criteria is pretty darn close to 0%. Add to that the fact that if you care at all about the way your Guardian looks, there are even more mitigating factors. We have lots of ornaments, but not all pieces of armor have access to the same ornament sets. And its really tough to make a guardian look half-decent in this game without wearing a complete set of matching armor, in no small part because of the way different sets handle shaders completely differently (via different textures). So if you're looking to maximize your build efficiency AND customize your armor around a specific set of mods that you want to use, you'll probably be forced to choose between using a complete armor set and settling for whatever rolls you happen to get, or using the absolute best armor drops you get across all the different sets, and looking hideous, and that's if you're lucky enough to get any armor with the rolls you want.

Looking hideous? I agree with everything else, but at least now I have a small selection of looks I can go with instead of the earlier days of Destiny 2 where I had to use armor whose look I hated just to make an Endurance or Strength build...

On top of all this, we now have seasonal armor mods which can only be applied to specific pieces of armor from that season, so the few armor sets that I've been ever-so-slowly optimizing over the past couple months must now be set aside, half-finished, so that I can start all over again grinding out this season's armor and working towards a build that is vaguely where I want it to be. Or, I just say "screw this season's mods", in which case I'm basically painting myself out of truly optimizing my set, which was the whole damn point to begin with.

Yep. I saw my first Champion in the Sundial activity, pulled out my anti-Barrier auto rifle... and got flattened because I could no longer pop the barrier. It kinda feels like that first time they made you re earn all your guns in D1 before infusing was a thing.

The Artifact. Similar to how armor 2.0 is supposedly about offering build diversity but ultimately just paints us into a corner, the Artifact and its mods are, IMO, a barely-disguised resource sink that claims to promote build customization, but ends up just being something I waste a bunch of glimmer on for a week or two before leaving it alone and forgetting all about it. There's no reason to have the champion mods tied to the artifact. Just make them available as standard mods. Much as I enjoy the new Nightfall Ordeals and Nightmare Hunts, being forced into using the same couple weapon types (due to their champion mod compatibility) works directly against the whole "play how you want to play" idea. When I look at this season's artifact, my first thought it "Great... looks like I'll be using a lot of bows and scout rifles in high-level PvE this season. GOOD THING I SPENT 2 MONTHS CUSTOMIZING MY ARMOR AROUND HAND CANNONS AND GRENADE LAUNCHERS." And since I'm not carrying around extra weapons just to keep those champion mods handy, I'm burning through glimmer by constantly swapping mods on my weapons every time I do a nightfall or nightmare hunt (since I want to use my mod slots for mods that are actually beneficial in other activities when I go play comp or a raid or something). The whole system is just exhausting and a big chore, and I don't find that it adds anything worthwhile or meaningful. Champion mods should just be a mod that can be applied to a piece of armor that provides "anti barrier rounds to all scout rifles" and stuff like that, rather than having to stick them into individual weapons.

Yep.

I'm sure I'll think of more good and bad stuff later on, but that's a good start :)

The difference for me is that all of those games had great stories that made perfect sense and were presented well even if you ignored the additional lore entries. Destiny doesn’t. It never has, and I don’t think it ever will. And that’s fine. It’s not reality what I come to Destiny for. I still hope for more.

You’re right, in that they are part of the game, and it’s not really fair to just dismiss them because it’s not the way I want story presented. I’m glad they are easier to get and in order now. I still have at least two lore books from Forsaken that I haven’t even found a single page for yet. I have no idea what they are or how to get them. Mostly I can’t be bothered. It’s to much runaround just to wrest a good story out of the game. That’s a huge problem for trying to use those to tell a story. It is getting easier, and that’s great. I just wish we could get to a point where the story told through cutscenes is half as interesting as any of the lore books, rather than the barest outline versions of a story they’ve been giving us.

And some of that is certainly due to this new seasonal format where things are more closely linked. There was an interesting tweet from Luke Smith the other day where he was almost apologizing for this current season being fairly disconnected from the last one. So, if anything, I think future seasons will be even more caused by the stuff we do. That could be pretty neat.

That’s where I get lost.

They hyped up how the seasons will be connected, how one will naturally lead to the other, and literally the first chance they have to show us how cool that is, they just don’t do it and say they do it next time? That is absolutely Destiny in a nutshell.

I’m not just in here trying to shit on your thread or anyone’s enjoyment of the game. But that so perfectly encapsulates all of my problems with Destiny, it felt worth saying.

And some of that is certainly due to this new seasonal format where things are more closely linked. There was an interesting tweet from Luke Smith the other day where he was almost apologizing for this current season being fairly disconnected from the last one. So, if anything, I think future seasons will be even more caused by the stuff we do. That could be pretty neat.

That’s where I get lost.

They hyped up how the seasons will be connected, how one will naturally lead to the other, and literally the first chance they have to show us how cool that is, they just don’t do it and say they do it next time? That is absolutely Destiny in a nutshell.

I’m not just in here trying to shit on your thread or anyone’s enjoyment of the game. But that so perfectly encapsulates all of my problems with Destiny, it felt worth saying.

What the hell man... did you skip the cutscene where it showed that killing the Undying Mind was what let the Cabal splinter time and is why we are having to use the Sundial to battle them across different periods of Mercury?? Last season, we watched Ikora build her device. At the conclusion of the season we deployed the device. We got cutscenes and dialogue and text all telling us it was our actions that lead to this next step.

And Luke implied that the connections would be even stronger in the future. Not that they didn't exist this time.

I can't help you if you aren't paying attention at all.

Even then, though, there's only so much of that anyone can do. Only so many hours of cutscene that would make sense. Only so much downtime for radio chatter to be understandable.

I play with a number of people (people I consider real Destiny fans) who don't even listen to the in-game chatter, their first time through; they talk right over it, as though it's irrelevant. If it were one person, or two, I could write it off to "this is just a person who doesn't really care about story"... but it's a substantial number of folks I play with. Which tells me that story isn't all that important to a significant chunk of Destiny players.

The worst part is when people like that participate in threads like this, and lament the lack of story in Destiny. (I'm not suggesting that any of those people are in THIS thread. Just that it's happened before.)

Is it the chicken or the egg, though?

Are they not interested in Destiny’s story, or had Destiny just taught them that none of it ends up mattering anyway.

I care about Destiny’s story, I can still barely be bothered to listen to the shit Osiris is yammering on about. The story telling methods in Destiny are completely counter to actually playing the game. It just throws dialogue and random shit at you when you talk to vendors. How many times have you missed dialogue because you’re in a party and you were just trying to pick up some bounties at the Tower real quick and the rest of the party is already in orbit waiting on you to start something else? Because it happens to me all the fucking time.

I can't help you if you aren't paying attention at all.

Apparently I wasn’t, because that’s literally the first time I’ve heard that. Osiris said they stole some of his experimental tech from him the first time I talked to him, but I don’t remember him saying anything about the Undying Mind.

Even then, though, there's only so much of that anyone can do. Only so many hours of cutscene that would make sense. Only so much downtime for radio chatter to be understandable.

I play with a number of people (people I consider real Destiny fans) who don't even listen to the in-game chatter, their first time through; they talk right over it, as though it's irrelevant. If it were one person, or two, I could write it off to "this is just a person who doesn't really care about story"... but it's a substantial number of folks I play with. Which tells me that story isn't all that important to a significant chunk of Destiny players.

The worst part is when people like that participate in threads like this, and lament the lack of story in Destiny. (I'm not suggesting that any of those people are in THIS thread. Just that it's happened before.)

Damn, Marty was right:

Ok, this (hopefully) will be my last tweet on this.

I LOVE streamers and twitchers.

I was having a reaction to a streamer who was playing Reach for the first time but kept talking during the dialog and wondered aloud why he didn't know what was happening.

Peace.

— Marty O'Donnell (@MartyTheElder) December 5, 2019

Destiny seems overly plotty to me. The amount of shit that needs to be explained so you know what’s going on seems like a lot. Characters act as deliverers of information rather than emotional entities.

Sure. And I agree. I want it in game more than anything!

I actually prefer the way it is.

When I'm playing a game, I want to play, not listen to someone talk or watch a long movie.

When I want to experience a good science fiction story, more often than not I'm looking to read.

To me, Destiny strikes a perfect balance between its loose narrative and gameplay. The focus is on the fun, but there's just enough story to get me interested in more, along with the tidbits of lore that drop along the way.

And I gotta say, the lore is really, really good short science fiction. I read a lot of "years best" anthologies, and a lot of the lore books would fit right in, even without any context. It's hard for me to imagine change in format would result in an improvement in quality.

Sure. And I agree. I want it in game more than anything!

I actually prefer the way it is.

When I'm playing a game, I want to play, not listen to someone talk or watch a long movie.

When I want to experience a good science fiction story, more often than not I'm looking to read.

To me, Destiny strikes a perfect balance between its loose narrative and gameplay. The focus is on the fun, but there's just enough story to get me interested in more, along with the tidbits of lore that drop along the way.

And I gotta say, the lore is really, really good short science fiction. I read a lot of "years best" anthologies, and a lot of the lore books would fit right in, even without any context. It's hard for me to imagine change in format would result in an improvement in quality.

Why make the game at all then? Turn the lore into a novel and call it a day. Doing it this way gains them nothing over just making a book, or just making a game and telling their story audiovisually.

Really? It gains them nothing?

It gains them a massive audience who loves Destiny but might not buy a book for a countless number of reasons. It gives them a way to tell cool stories that would otherwise not exist.

Really? It gains them nothing?

It gains them a massive audience who loves Destiny but might not buy a book for a countless number of reasons. It gives them a way to tell cool stories that would otherwise not exist.

I’m talking creatively.

And no it doesn’t. The stories could exist… as a novel. Or as told decently in a game. You lose a ton by going halfsies.

- No text -

Really? It gains them nothing?

It gains them a massive audience who loves Destiny but might not buy a book for a countless number of reasons. It gives them a way to tell cool stories that would otherwise not exist.

I’m talking creatively.

And no it doesn’t. The stories could exist… as a novel. Or as told decently in a game. You lose a ton by going halfsies.

You gain a whole lot, too.

Creatively, the folks at Bungie (or contractors, however it works now) get to write cool short stories that they otherwise wouldn't get to, and they get an automatic audience of millions of players.

How much would it cost for Bungie to publish a novel, versus how much it costs to put these stories into the game?

I also want to point out that these stories are told decently in the game . . . in the form of short stories that you can read. Don't mistake my frustration with the presentation of the story of our Guardian (and everything surrounding them) as any issue with the storytelling of the lore books. The lore books are fantastic, and the game would be diminished without their presence. The game would also be far better if the core narrative of our Guardian was stronger in both presentation and writing.

I like the brevity of Destiny's lore entries. The flavor might get get lost in a proper novel.

- No text -

I like the brevity of Destiny's lore entries. The flavor might get get lost in a proper novel.

You’d think with how much good stuff they can pack into such a small block, they could put that somewhere in the actual game’s storytelling. Wouldn’t need a novel to expand the world if they brought back Ghost’s scannables, or if they added more Ghost memories like the nine (ten?) that Eris gives us.

I like the brevity of Destiny's lore entries. The flavor might get get lost in a proper novel.

You’d think with how much good stuff they can pack into such a small block, they could put that somewhere in the actual game’s storytelling. Wouldn’t need a novel to expand the world if they brought back Ghost’s scannables, or if they added more Ghost memories like the nine (ten?) that Eris gives us.

There was a moment in Reach that really jumped out at me when I replayed it last week. After extracting Halsey from her lab, Carter orders Jun to go with her. Halsey protests “I don’t need an escort.” Carter looks at Jun and says “We can’t let anything fall into Covenant hands.” and Jun replies “I’ll do what is necessary, sir.”

It’s moments like this, where Halsey goes from acting high and mighty and tough enough to take care of herself to realizing that her own Spartans are talking about killing her so she can’t be captured if the situation calls for it, that are completely absent from Destiny’s in-game narrative content. A couple we’ll-written lines of dialogue can tell us as much about the characters as pages and pages of written exposition.

A couple we’ll-written lines of dialogue can tell us as much about the characters as pages and pages of written exposition.

A couple of well written lines of text can tell us as much about the characters as minutes and minutes of spoken exposition.

A couple we’ll-written lines of dialogue can tell us as much about the characters as pages and pages of written exposition.

A couple of well written lines of text can tell us as much about the characters as minutes and minutes of spoken exposition.

Very true. I should have just said “exposition”, lol

A couple we’ll-written lines of dialogue can tell us as much about the characters as pages and pages of written exposition.

A couple of well written lines of text can tell us as much about the characters as minutes and minutes of spoken exposition.

Very true. I should have just said “exposition”, lol

"Does this unit have a soul?"

Writing is hard, for sure. I can't imagine how it is in a multi-disciplined medium like computer games. You've got visuals, sound, gameplay, and everything else and it all costs money and time.

I suspect what we see is simply the result of decisions balancing all those things. Obviously, of course, but it reminds me to keep perspective. I'm certainly not in place to try making things like Destiny, so I won't be too hard on the ones that are!

A four word “story” in only the most literal sense. Nobody ever cried to that.

A four word “story” in only the most literal sense. Nobody ever cried to that.

The impact of the story is not from the word choice, it’s from everything that isn’t exposited. The reader’s inference and how they fill in the gaps with the most idealized details.
Much like this lore piece, where the Guardian that was once Uldren shares a lot about his character with just two words (supplemented by the narration of his experiences of the previous weeks).

Good storytelling is finding the most efficient way to deliver on an idea.

A four word “story” in only the most literal sense. Nobody ever cried to that.

That’s a big fat assumption. Depending on one’s personal experiences among other things, that story can be one hell of a gut-punch.

Nah, they did actually make you listen to that at the first quest step. It was definitely there, not sure how you would have missed it.

That said, it al feels a little forced. I've been a little disappointed in how all of that works over the years with Destiny. Lots of "hey, go to this location and do all the new things!" Then "hey, now we're going to this location for all the things!" I get why it's that way from a development standpoint, but it is a bit jarring.

Having been discussing the story with people in various formats and from various perspectives and directions toward the story of Destiny for 5-6 years at this point the significant trend is definitely the former.

A four word “story” in only the most literal sense. Nobody ever cried to that.

You don't have to cry. The poignancy of the image is the thing.

It's also six words, but I'm being pedantic. :)

A four word “story” in only the most literal sense. Nobody ever cried to that.

I bet you every cent I have that you are wrong.

Damn, Marty was right:

Ok, this (hopefully) will be my last tweet on this.

I LOVE streamers and twitchers.

I was having a reaction to a streamer who was playing Reach for the first time but kept talking during the dialog and wondered aloud why he didn't know what was happening.

Peace.

— Marty O'Donnell (@MartyTheElder) December 5, 2019

And if he had just told that story, in that way, the first time around instead of trying to generalize, without irony, about narcissism and streamers, he'd have gotten a lot less pushback.

Just sayin.