Spent an entire crucible match getting 1-shot by some jerk who was way too good with his Arbalest, which made this moment all the more satisfying:

Yes, I did headshot him with his own projectile, lol

- No text -

Spent an entire crucible match getting 1-shot by some jerk who was way too good with his Arbalest, which made this moment all the more satisfying:

Yes, I did headshot him with his own projectile, lol

I know nothing about Destiny anymore, but a Kinetic Fusion rifle sounds like something i'd want.

*looks up weapon*

Oh. You acquire it through tons of bullshit.

Never mind.

Spent an entire crucible match getting 1-shot by some jerk who was way too good with his Arbalest, which made this moment all the more satisfying:

Yes, I did headshot him with his own projectile, lol

I know nothing about Destiny anymore, but a Kinetic Fusion rifle sounds like something i'd want.

*looks up weapon*

Oh. You acquire it through tons of bullshit.

Never mind.

It is by far the guaranteed exotic with the lowest bar to clear that they've made available in some time.

Spent an entire crucible match getting 1-shot by some jerk who was way too good with his Arbalest, which made this moment all the more satisfying:

Yes, I did headshot him with his own projectile, lol

I know nothing about Destiny anymore, but a Kinetic Fusion rifle sounds like something i'd want.

*looks up weapon*

Oh. You acquire it through tons of bullshit.

Never mind.

Well, I wouldn’t say “tons”. I got it during the first day of the event, and had a decent time doing it. I’ll take that approach over RNG any day.

Spent an entire crucible match getting 1-shot by some jerk who was way too good with his Arbalest, which made this moment all the more satisfying:

Yes, I did headshot him with his own projectile, lol

I know nothing about Destiny anymore, but a Kinetic Fusion rifle sounds like something i'd want.

*looks up weapon*

Oh. You acquire it through tons of bullshit.

Never mind.

It is by far the guaranteed exotic with the lowest bar to clear that they've made available in some time.

Hmmm. The steps looked… tedious.

Also, is that a new “power weapon glow” color, or have I just gone up against so few linear fusion rifles that I don’t recognize it?

Hmmm. The steps looked… tedious.

You can't get it by only raiding and playing crucible. It's possible that qualifies as tedious to you.

I know nothing about Destiny anymore, but a Kinetic Fusion rifle sounds like something i'd want.

*looks up weapon*

Oh. You acquire it through tons of bullshit.

Where "tons of bullshit" is playing a new spring event while having fun with friends doing new activities. Yep, Destiny is all bullshit.

Where "tons of bullshit" is playing a new spring event while having fun with friends doing new activities. Yep, Destiny is all bullshit.

In my opinion yes, it's 95% bullshit and has always been. The difference is that now the 5% doesn't justify the 95% anymore for me. My patience for this type of grinding is over.

Which is a shame because fun could be had with that gun.

Playing the game kinda idly for a couple days while socializing with friends = Cody’s least favorite type of grinding.

Oh come on. That’s disingenuous.

You’re free to enjoy it, but his position isn’t wrong either. It still boils down to doing hours of the same stuff we’ve been doing since the game came out. Cool, go get 200 grenade kills or whatever in strikes. Yeah, that’s really compelling content there!

And yet... is it possible that our backlash against ongoing content is getting out of hand? For instance, if you’d told me back during the Halo 1 - Reach era that for $35 I’d get a few new events and new weapons and new background lore and new multiplayer modes and new multiplayer maps, I would have been in “Shut up and take my money” mode.

The Halo 2 multiplayer map pack was $19.95 ($25.97 in today’s money) and arguably included a lot less. Back in those days even things like the Vanguard/Drifter remixed missions with new voiceovers were essential not possible.

I mean, I’m currently replaying Dad of War because I’m holding out for new Destiny content, but taking a little step back I’m wondering if I’m not being a little selfish / possibly setting my own expectations of any studio’s ability to make that content too high...

Oh, and The Revelry is a free event. It’s not like I didn’t replay Assault on the Control Room hundreds of times... I’d be willing to at least entertain the argument that AotCR is a better hour of content that maybe every individual Destiny 2 mission... But is Destiny 2 really that much worse on replayability that it deserves the level of scorn we’re giving it?

No grinding required for the Halo 2 map pack. You had fun immediately with no barriers.

Added up, I’d guess that 70-80% of my video game fun has always been replaying content. That would be true of the first game I ever owned (Sonic 2), up through the Halos, and continued into this new Games As A Service era.

On barriers to play The Revelry, I’m not exactly sure that’s even true. What Power Level do players end Forsaken’s story at? Over 400, I believe. Doesn’t the Verdant Forest start at sub 400? I seem to recall it was very far below the current 700 max...

My backlash isn't so much against the event itself, it's against poking fun at Cody for not wanting to participate in what is undeniably an arbitrary grind.

I actually think the event is mostly fine. It's well-considered, I think. It has enough "new" in the Verdant Forest, and encourages people to keep going through the other activity playlists. It's a smart way to keep the population engaged and keep matchmaking working. The recharge rate buff is at least something to make those things feel at a little bit fresh.

That's all fine. Telling Cody he's wrong and making fun of him and couching it as "idly playing with friends" is disingenuous, though.

I'm much in the same boat. I'm off today, and was considering firing up Destiny to grind out that weapon. But then I realized that's exactly what it would be. Absolutely none of those items on that checklist sound like fun to me right now, so I just won't do them.

But tone matters, right? Is it “bullshit” you have to play through or simply old content and activities you don’t want do right now? I think it again come back to “are we” by which I really mean “are some here on DBO” overreacting? If not, what is the acceptable standard for acquiring a new weapon? Is only 100% new missions and never before seen bounty goals what’s really being held up here as what is necessary to enjoy Destiny 2 again? Or should all new weapons just appear in our vaults complete free of any payment or effort?

I totally get Destiny fatigue. Simply having an ongoing string of events, even if they are good, leads to fatigue. Nobody wants plays the same game forever. But (no surprise, right?) I also get disagreeing with those who are arguably making acquiring this new gun more “bullshit” that it really is.

In the end, it’s fine if Cody does not want to engage. But, MacAddict and Harmanimus probably also really did enjoy the grind it takes to get Arbalest... And I don’t think their position is that Cody is wrong. Just that his characterization of it all was more abrasive than necessary. Especially given that this was one of the easiest processes to earn an Exotic in recent memory. The Last Word and Thorn were both significantly harder, I believe.

Is only 100% new missions and never before seen bounty goals what’s really being held up here as what is necessary to enjoy Destiny 2 again?

No, but there has to be a foundation of new content for me personally to really get interested again, at this point. This Annual Pass stuff was a fine experiment, but it's a failure for me. I like the lore stuff they've been doing. The Invitations of the Nine is a cool idea. But without a strong foundation for me to want to be playing the game, it's not enough to get me to log in every weekend and do it.

I really prefer Curse of Osiris and Warmind to the Annual Pass, and it's not even close. Give me a Warmind with the Inviation of the Nine type thing to build upon the main campaign, and I'd be super excited to keep playing. Gambit Prime and The Reckoning aren't it for me.

Content doesn't have to be new, but it does have to be worthwhile. That's obviously just a personal value judgement, but none of the stuff happening in The Revelry feels worthwhile. There is obviously fun that can be had there, but it feels very much like filler content to support a live game, rather than something truly fun that exists for its own sake. I'd have a really hard time believing that developers can look at something like The Revelry (or any of the past events) and truly think "Yeah, that's amazing, worthwhile content!" And I'm not knocking those designers or even the events themselves, just the fact that they are obviously events of necessity to try and keep players engaged, rather than truly fun activities that were made because someone was really passionate about how cool they were.

I totally get Destiny fatigue. Simply having an ongoing string of events, even if they are good, leads to fatigue. Nobody wants plays the same game forever. But (no surprise, right?) I also get disagreeing with those who are arguably making acquiring this new gun more “bullshit” that it really is.

I think you read "bullshit" as a more negative term than I do. I use that term and ones like it very casually, are more as a general standout to "stuff," although, yes, with a slight negative connotation. Cody might mean it much more negatively than I would, though.

Especially given that this was one of the easiest processes to earn an Exotic in recent memory. The Last Word and Thorn were both significantly harder, I believe.

Easy doesn't mean fun, though. I don't know what the difference is, but I had a lot of fun doing the grind for both of those weapons. The grind for the Arbalest looks like busy-work by comparison. Maybe most of that is just down to one of mindset--I was active in Destiny and having a blast with the game in general when I did the quests for The Last Word and Thorn, and I'm not playing Destiny right now.

I know I've become sort of negative again lately, and I don't intend to. I'm eager for Bungie to put out something that will really get me back into Destiny. This little scraps of checklists to run through just aren't it for me anymore.

I’d rather have another Warmind, as well. Remember, Bungie said earlier in the winter that High Moon Studios was working on their “swan song” for the Season of Opulence. Bungie previously gave them a lot of the credit for Warmind. It’s a guess on my part, but I’d wager the type of content you and I enjoy more is coming.

There’s a couple of intriguing questions here as well:

1. Are these events worthless? Even if you, me, and Cody largely or totally ignore them, does it keep enough of the Destiny player base engaged that the game as a whole sees more buy-in for future content? I don’t have any data to form an answer, but the answer is at least conceivably: “Maybe.”

2. Does a large studio like Bungie delay future content by making these events? Or are they large enough with enough concurrent teams that producing The Revelry and the next Warmind is a more efficient use of time and talent than idling (and possibly losing) developers?

Even though Games as a Service has many notable negatives, game development is really, really complex, and there may be some less obvious positives, as well...

Added up, I’d guess that 70-80% of my video game fun has always been replaying content. That would be true of the first game I ever owned (Sonic 2), up through the Halos, and continued into this new Games As A Service era.

It's not the replaying of the content… that is often fine. It's the why and how you do it that matters.

I think you read "bullshit" as a more negative term than I do. I use that term and ones like it very casually, are more as a general standout to "stuff," although, yes, with a slight negative connotation. Cody might mean it much more negatively than I would, though.

I do. It is a set of deliberate decisions designed to waste the player's time with no benefit to them at all.

Especially given that this was one of the easiest processes to earn an Exotic in recent memory. The Last Word and Thorn were both significantly harder, I believe.

Not as hard as Hawkmoon…

I know I've become sort of negative again lately, and I don't intend to. I'm eager for Bungie to put out something that will really get me back into Destiny. This little scraps of checklists to run through just aren't it for me anymore.

There is only one scenario in which I would ever return to Destiny:

1. The progression and investment system is completely rethought, and fixed to eliminate the arbitrary grind and barriers to fun.

All progression should be based on what you know, not what you have.

Even though Games as a Service has many notable negatives, game development is really, really complex, and there may be some less obvious positives, as well...

Please outline a positive. I am willing to hear it. Because I see zero, both in actuality and in theory.

More of a game that I enjoy playing:

If you’d told me back during the Halo 1 - Reach era that for $35 I’d get a few new events and new weapons and new background lore and new multiplayer modes and new multiplayer maps, I would have been in “Shut up and take my money” mode.

The Halo 2 multiplayer map pack was $19.95 ($25.97 in today’s money) and arguably included a lot less. Back in those days even things like the Vanguard/Drifter remixed missions with new voiceovers were essential not possible.

I think you read "bullshit" as a more negative term than I do. I use that term and ones like it very casually, are more as a general standout to "stuff," although, yes, with a slight negative connotation. Cody might mean it much more negatively than I would, though.

I do. It is a set of deliberate decisions designed to waste the player's time with no benefit to them at all.

They... uh... they get a new gun of a type never before seen in Destiny. And probably some armor. And certainly some potions that greatly enhance melee, grenade, or class ability cool downs.

Especially given that this was one of the easiest processes to earn an Exotic in recent memory. The Last Word and Thorn were both significantly harder, I believe.

Not as hard as Hawkmoon…

Wasn't Hawkmoon just RNG? All you had to do was play the game and one would quickly be delivered into your waiting hands. At least I think that's how it worked for everyone.

I know I've become sort of negative again lately, and I don't intend to. I'm eager for Bungie to put out something that will really get me back into Destiny. This little scraps of checklists to run through just aren't it for me anymore.

There is only one scenario in which I would ever return to Destiny:

1. The progression and investment system is completely rethought, and fixed to eliminate the arbitrary grind and barriers to fun.

All progression should be based on what you know, not what you have.

After 5ish years of you "being right" as you continued to play the game that was everything you claimed to stand against, I'm more than happy for you to stay on the sidelines. Hmm... what are you playing these days anyway?

After 5ish years of you "being right" as you continued to play the game that was everything you claimed to stand against, I'm more than happy for you to stay on the sidelines. Hmm... what are you playing these days anyway?

Right this second a mix between Wario Ware Gold and Whispers of a Machine.

In context this was poking fun at it sounding like Cody was saying that playing with friends is only 5% enjoyable and no longer worthwhile.

Also, as an aside, it is entirely possible to get Arbalest without stepping foot in any activity outside the Verdant Forest. 7 Triumphs can be completed within the event itself. No Crucible, no Gambit. No Strikes.

Oh come on. That’s disingenuous.

You’re free to enjoy it, but his position isn’t wrong either.

Oh, Yeah. I agree Cody and anyone else who feels that way is totally justified in how they feel. I only made my comment because of how he said it with the "total bullshit" is all.

It still boils down to doing hours of the same stuff we’ve been doing since the game came out. Cool, go get 200 grenade kills or whatever in strikes. Yeah, that’s really compelling content there!

I mean, I was already doing strikes for pinnacle weapons and 70% of the stuff I was doing in those strikes and the Forrest, so I wasn't "grinding" for anything. I might have popped into the raid for about 10-15 minutes to finish one of the bounties which would be considered a "grind"

Honestly, if you don't like strikes or the forest this will feel like a grind to the Arbalest. Otherwise I had fun with unlimited abilities.

*EDIT*

After reading the entire thread I just want to make a note on Cody's opinion and how we respond to it. From as long as I can recall, Cody's opinion has been roughly (and tell me if I'm wrong) "Destiny is trash and unless they overhaul key components of the architecture I'm not playing it again" and I am of the camp that Destiny has been fun and enjoyable game that has been worth my money. Now, every time Cody has said something along the lines of "In my opinion yes, it's [Destiny] 95% bullshit and has always been." That is directly opposed to my opinion of the game and it is very much abrasive. We can both have opinions, but I don't get how Cody gets to say things like that and when I defend my opinion it's considered disingenuous? Yes, it was a bit snarky, I will admit, but at this point of replying to Cody's "Destiny is bullshit" and harsh language it's kinda hard to have an actual debate about it.

Maybe I just need to keep sticking to my guns, but I'm a bit tired of how it seems like bashing on Destiny is the defacto moral high ground these days. I feel like Liking a game on a fan site should be and one should list off why they don't like a game. Maybe it should always be both... I don't know anymore. I am starting to ramble now.

I think it is just that as time goes on, more people see the con. You just had an article posted by a major publication criticizing the idea of games as service. There are real, actual, nefarious design decisions at play here. I’m not just making them up. But I think as time goes on it becomes more clear you can chill with your friends and play game without frictions or barriers.

I mean, I was already doing strikes for pinnacle weapons and 70% of the stuff I was doing in those strikes and the Forrest, so I wasn't "grinding" for anything. I might have popped into the raid for about 10-15 minutes to finish one of the bounties which would be considered a "grind"

That’s fair enough. I haven’t even turned on Destiny in weeks. I just looked up what it took to get the gun, and it looked like a bunch of activity specific bounties. Maybe I missed something or misread.

Like I said, a lot of it is just down to me not actively playing Destiny right now. If I was, I’d probably happily do it and just see it as doing the stuff I normally do week-to-week anyway. That I’m not actively playing Destiny is the thing that turns that into a glaring flaw—it’s just the same stuff I’ve been doing for six months now. There’s not really anything new there.

It really is just a mindset thing.

For as negative as I seem, this is actually a good place for me to be regarding Destiny. There was a time when I’d have jumped in and done this just to get that weapon, and I’d have hated every minute of it. Now I’ve actually let go, I don’t care enough to force my way through it.

I think it is just that as time goes on, more people see the con. You just had an article posted by a major publication criticizing the idea of games as service. There are real, actual, nefarious design decisions at play here. I’m not just making them up. But I think as time goes on it becomes more clear you can chill with your friends and play game without frictions or barriers.

I respect your opinion, not your word choices. And I'm not so stupid as to think that my ideas of Destiny are Black and White. There is definitely room for improvement, but I hardly think I'm getting conned by a nefarious game studio.

As I've only spent the base game and expansions cost, I'm going to keep playing a fun game until it's not longer fun. Con or not, it's still worth it.

I mean, I was already doing strikes for pinnacle weapons and 70% of the stuff I was doing in those strikes and the Forrest, so I wasn't "grinding" for anything. I might have popped into the raid for about 10-15 minutes to finish one of the bounties which would be considered a "grind"

That’s fair enough. I haven’t even turned on Destiny in weeks. I just looked up what it took to get the gun, and it looked like a bunch of activity specific bounties. Maybe I missed something or misread.

Like I said, a lot of it is just down to me not actively playing Destiny right now. If I was, I’d probably happily do it and just see it as doing the stuff I normally do week-to-week anyway. That I’m not actively playing Destiny is the thing that turns that into a glaring flaw—it’s just the same stuff I’ve been doing for six months now. There’s not really anything new there.

It really is just a mindset thing.

For as negative as I seem, this is actually a good place for me to be regarding Destiny. There was a time when I’d have jumped in and done this just to get that weapon, and I’d have hated every minute of it. Now I’ve actually let go, I don’t care enough to force my way through it.

I totally respect that, we all play on a variance. I'm currently playing Apex and AC: Odyssey between events/expansions and this sprint event was new and refreshing enough to keep my engagement. Honestly, that's all I need right now. If it takes more for you to jump it, that's all good :)

I mean, even if you don't get the exotic it's just going in the pool. You will probably get it from Xur or randomly when you play the next big expansion. You play the game you want to play.

I think the only thing about your stance that I draw honest issue with is the consideration that this is an “answered question” and not just growing pains in a perpetually shifting and adapting industry. It’s a tonal thing. Playing up the whole Only-Sane-Man rhetoric about it does not help that.