Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but... (Destiny)

by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 00:33 (2072 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I enjoyed the Vault of Glass Oracles and Confluxes sequence, and yet the default strategy even among DBOers became sniping them from well beyond the play space. Similarly, I enjoyed the Abyss section of Crota's End and the only the fly teamwork it required to get a whole team across, and yet it eventually became everyone holding back while a single cloaked Hunter walked the entire path with zero excitement.

I literally never saw either of those things. I don’t doubt it happened, but I did both of those raids dozens of times, and I never saw anyone do either of those things, and it was suggested very infrequently. I didn’t do VoG while it was still current, to be fair, but I was doing Crota while it was new. There are plenty of people willing to do things legitimately.

In Vault of Glass, the default strategy for the final boss was to designate three people who knew what they were doing to be teleported and three people who didn't to be left behind. This lead to some players being totally unable to function if they happened to get teleported in with the relic. It always saddens me when I come across someone who has never done some part part of a Raid or another because their teams have only ever cheesed it. I can easily recall that happening in a few of the Raids. More often in some than others, for sure, but I suspect it's happened in most of them to me at some point or another.

It goes on and on, this culture of "if you can cheese it, do so!" poisons the game for those of us who would like a challenge and who enjoy teamwork or a challenge or heck, just enjoy getting to play with friends longer rather than shorter.

I’d still argue that the fact that people feel the need to cheese something indicates a problem with the way the game is designed. I never saw those cheeses, but I wouldn’t blame someone for doing them if they were just trying to get the one drop they wanted, whether it be the One armor piece they need for light level or that rare gun drop. That’s the difference. If you don’t want to participate in those methods, find a like-minded group instead of hating the players that are taking the most efficient route through an activity they might not be all that interested in for the thing they actually want.

It can indicate a problem, but not always. I got the experience of helping some people beat Last Wish for the first time the intended way well over a month after its release. They'd beaten it more times than me, but never without the cluster rocket cheese.

If content is too hard or unforgiving (Riven boss fight) or the grind is too great (Enhancement Cores) I'd far prefer Bungie fix it than circumventing things. Is my position really a "Ah, so nothing. Got it." level of unreasonable?

We’ll never know, as you didn’t say any of that. You’re only stated position was people should be banned for daring to get some free cores.

You know, I did make a few posts between then and now. You quoted most of them during our back and forth yet you responded to my question as if I only had the one post. Curious that...

I wasn’t aware some light-hearted snark was a mortal sin to your sensibilities, but, again, to be fair, I guess I should, because this conversation plays out almost every time you and I interact on this forum. Maybe one of us will learn from it at some point. Fair warning, it probably won’t be me. (:

Nah, you're fine. And I'm having fun making my point. It is not a simple one. It's not just "everyone who uses an exploit should be banned." It's more about the acceptance of any and all cheesing and exploits slowly leading to a community of gamers who become toxic to the community and to other players. At some point players know that what they are doing is against the rules up to and including straight up cheating, yet nobody ever seems to be willing to call those players out on their behavior anymore allowing it to spread further and wider.