Team Buffs: Why they aren't so great. Why aren't they?

So I like team buffs. A lot.

The Rat King is a huge favorite of mine, and I try to get my fireteam to break it out whenever possible. So I was super pleased to hear about a Rat King catalyst in the works. But Nevin made a solid argument against it that got me thinking. I posited that the catalyst ought to extend the range of the Rat Pack perk by 5 meters or so (the inner ring of the motion tracker is 20m, right?), that that would put it in the realm where more players would pick it up, but he argued:

"I think that would make people who already enjoy it love it even more. It wouldn’t make me want to use it though, because it’s still based around the concept of your entire team moving as a single pack, and I do rarely find that to be an effective strategy. In almost every activity, I find the key to success is spreading out, overlapping lines of sight and cover-fire, flanking enemy positions. I feel like Rat King actively encourages bad teamwork in the majority of situations."

Which I really find hard to argue with, not just for Rat King, but all team buffs, for the most part. Malfeasance is the only example (aside from MAYBE Two-tailed Fox) that allows for any kind of teamwork to result in a buff at range. I've yet to play with Sunshot's marking ability to see how that applies. All other team buffs that I can think of are achieved by clustering together, which necessarily makes you a great target for explosives, AoE attacks/debuffs, and other multi-kill-style misery.

I think there are plenty of ideas for teamwork-oriented gear that don't require close proximity, but I see why the team buffs available bank on it. It just seems like none are particularly strong enough, aside from Well of Radiance, Lunafaction, and Ward of Dawn, that they get any kind of use. And those are generally only for DPS phases or outright survival.

I'd really like running Aeon armors to be a viable strategy, for example. I just feel like there's a lot of space to encourage and reward teamwork that hasn't been navigated (or at least tuned well) yet. Thoughts?

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I still love Hunter smoke grenades. Here, let me throw this and make you invisible for a bit.

I’d love to see Bungie get more creative in general in that regard. We’ve yet to see a real support class or gear. I’d love to see more smoke grande styled abilities. Let me hit you with this to literally buff you in some way. More distance for thebaireasy automatic team buffs some classes provide would be great.

I’m sure it’s a hard line to walk. I can’t imagine trying to figure out the balancing of team buffs. But I desperately want Destiny to be a more thoughtful experience, where subclass builds and gear choice makes a real difference instead of “Well, it says it increases reload speed, so I guess I’ll just trust that it’s doing something.”

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I still love Hunter smoke grenades. Here, let me throw this and make you invisible for a bit.

Indeed. And the team-support Dawnblade can throw overshields at teammates in a similar way, though I almost never saw anyone use it.

In general, though, I think it's a good point. Destiny does seem to have a penchant for making teams stay in close proximity, despite that being a generally bad idea a lot of the time, outside of certain platforms in raids. I mean, how many times have you been killed by splash damage from an enemy who was targeting a teammate? It's happened to me more times than I could count.

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I still love Hunter smoke grenades. Here, let me throw this and make you invisible for a bit.

Indeed. And the team-support Dawnblade can throw overshields at teammates in a similar way, though I almost never saw anyone use it.

In general, though, I think it's a good point. Destiny does seem to have a penchant for making teams stay in close proximity, despite that being a generally bad idea a lot of the time, outside of certain platforms in raids. I mean, how many times have you been killed by splash damage from an enemy who was targeting a teammate? It's happened to me more times than I could count.

Ah, both the Hunter Smoke and the new Dawnblade ability are good calls. Though I too have only seen maybe one person ever using the latter in the wild.

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I still love Hunter smoke grenades. Here, let me throw this and make you invisible for a bit.

Indeed. And the team-support Dawnblade can throw overshields at teammates in a similar way, though I almost never saw anyone use it.

In general, though, I think it's a good point. Destiny does seem to have a penchant for making teams stay in close proximity, despite that being a generally bad idea a lot of the time, outside of certain platforms in raids. I mean, how many times have you been killed by splash damage from an enemy who was targeting a teammate? It's happened to me more times than I could count.

Ah, both the Hunter Smoke and the new Dawnblade ability are good calls. Though I too have only seen maybe one person ever using the latter in the wild.

The void and solar titans have abilities that buff teammates.
Solar: Kills with Solar abilities buff reload speed (and something else)
Void: Melee kills give team mates a temporary shield buff.

The problem with these is that they rarely happen in PvP and their range is so short that you have to be standing shoulder to shoulder for it to work. Even in PvE it doesn't happen very often!

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I still love Hunter smoke grenades. Here, let me throw this and make you invisible for a bit.

Indeed. And the team-support Dawnblade can throw overshields at teammates in a similar way, though I almost never saw anyone use it.

In general, though, I think it's a good point. Destiny does seem to have a penchant for making teams stay in close proximity, despite that being a generally bad idea a lot of the time, outside of certain platforms in raids. I mean, how many times have you been killed by splash damage from an enemy who was targeting a teammate? It's happened to me more times than I could count.

Ah, both the Hunter Smoke and the new Dawnblade ability are good calls. Though I too have only seen maybe one person ever using the latter in the wild.

The void and solar titans have abilities that buff teammates.
Solar: Kills with Solar abilities buff reload speed (and something else)
Void: Melee kills give team mates a temporary shield buff.

The problem with these is that they rarely happen in PvP and their range is so short that you have to be standing shoulder to shoulder for it to work. Even in PvE it doesn't happen very often!

I guess that's kind of my point. They need to be significant enough (or visible enough) that players are aware of them and want to leverage them. Requiring your team to be in close proximity is certainly a major drawback, but if some of them would linger like the buff from the Well of Light in Gambit Prime, that would be nice.

I guess at the moment I'm mainly thinking of the bridge encounter in Reckoning Tier 2. That's a scenario that forces the team into close proximity, but I'm not seeing anyone take advantage of the various buffs to any significant effect. I mean, even a couple Warlocks running Aeon gloves would mean a rain of grenades, right?

Maybe we should start spitballing our own team-buffing exotics.

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen it. I didn’t know that was a thing.

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Ah, both the Hunter Smoke and the new Dawnblade ability are good calls. Though I too have only seen maybe one person ever using the latter in the wild.

Chain of Woe (increased reload speed on precision kills) is also a Hunter support ability. It's usually how I tell someone is using the wrong Gunslinger tree in a raid.

It seems like a lot of the support abilities just ended up on the least used trees. I'd love to have the invis smoke ability, but Mobeius Quiver still isn't that great even after all the buffs it's gotten.

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Chain of Woe (increased reload speed on precision kills) is also a Hunter support ability. It's usually how I tell someone is using the wrong Gunslinger tree in a raid.

That’s both hilarious and an impressively concise summary/illustration of the problem :)

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Hunters:

Something Winchy -Exotic Chestpiece
Across the Moebius Strip- The first Moebius Quiver shot that hits a wall above the user's chest-level will create a void zipline back to the User. Teammates can ride these ziplines for the duration of the User's Super, gaining an overshield the longer they ride them. The User will gain a stronger overshield for every teammate that rides the zipline.

Encourages mobility, splitting from a teammate (do you send everyone across, or only flankers?), creative use of a less-popular skill tree, and rewards several members of the team with overshields, while being able to cross between the two points quickly. The Hunter is rewarded with highly increased Survivability if separated from the entire team. Just make sure that you're not over a botomless pit when it runs out (remaining time will be on the lower left as you ride).

Titans:

Roller Frames - Exotic Gauntlets
Painting Targets- Any grenade damage will mark all targets for any teammate outside of the user's Radar. Marked Targets will take 20% more damage for 7 seconds. Teammate kills against marked targets restore some grenade energy.

Titans can contribute a long-range damage buff that encourages teammates to split from them, while still coordinating against the same enemies. Supports flanking and aggressive play, while punishing enemies for clustering together. Also makes sniping more viable.
Pairs well with Something Winchy.

Warlocks:

The Long And Winding Robes - Exotic Chestpiece
Don't Keep Me Waiting Here- Holding reload for two seconds while inside the user's Empowering/Healing Rift will teleport the player to a random spot on the map, while granting them the full benefits of the rift for 7 seconds, and a 30% increase in sprint speed (Teleported Guardians will glow brightly in whatever element the User's subclass is). Supers are unavailable for five seconds after the buff ends. Buffs can be deactivated early by attempting to use your Super.

Throwing a little bit of Anarchy into the gameplay (besides, ya know, the Anarchy weapon itself), while keeping it balanced to avoid getting hit by surprise supers, and making the teleported Guardians glow to let other players know that they're buffed and likely separated from any teammates.
Pairs well with Roller Frames.

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Hunters:

Something Winchy -Exotic Chestpiece
Across the Moebius Strip- The first Moebius Quiver shot that hits a wall above the user's chest-level will create a void zipline back to the User. Teammates can ride these ziplines for the duration of the User's Super, gaining an overshield the longer they ride them. The User will gain a stronger overshield for every teammate that rides the zipline.

Encourages mobility, splitting from a teammate (do you send everyone across, or only flankers?), creative use of a less-popular skill tree, and rewards several members of the team with overshields, while being able to cross between the two points quickly. The Hunter is rewarded with highly increased Survivability if separated from the entire team. Just make sure that you're not over a botomless pit when it runs out (remaining time will be on the lower left as you ride).

Titans:

Roller Frames - Exotic Gauntlets
Painting Targets- Any grenade damage will mark all targets for any teammate outside of the user's Radar. Marked Targets will take 20% more damage for 7 seconds. Teammate kills against marked targets restore some grenade energy.

Titans can contribute a long-range damage buff that encourages teammates to split from them, while still coordinating against the same enemies. Supports flanking and aggressive play, while punishing enemies for clustering together. Also makes sniping more viable.
Pairs well with Something Winchy.

Warlocks:

The Long And Winding Robes - Exotic Chestpiece
Don't Keep Me Waiting Here- Holding reload for two seconds while inside the user's Empowering/Healing Rift will teleport the player to a random spot on the map, while granting them the full benefits of the rift for 7 seconds, and a 30% increase in sprint speed (Teleported Guardians will glow brightly in whatever element the User's subclass is). Supers are unavailable for five seconds after the buff ends. Buffs can be deactivated early by attempting to use your Super.

Throwing a little bit of Anarchy into the gameplay (besides, ya know, the Anarchy weapon itself), while keeping it balanced to avoid getting hit by surprise supers, and making the teleported Guardians glow to let other players know that they're buffed and likely separated from any teammates.
Pairs well with Roller Frames.

Think about how you could fight back against an invader. Or popping one of these and your invader taking the buff and going through the portal. Good way to kite/escape from bosses.

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Hunters:

Something Winchy -Exotic Chestpiece
Across the Moebius Strip- The first Moebius Quiver shot that hits a wall above the user's chest-level will create a void zipline back to the User. Teammates can ride these ziplines for the duration of the User's Super, gaining an overshield the longer they ride them. The User will gain a stronger overshield for every teammate that rides the zipline.

Players will go where they shouldn't in PvE activities and cheese. Sorry, integrity of the investment system over fun.

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Honestly they are not worth using in their current state. The imbalance (different abilities get benefits) between the classes and the gener underwhelming effect they have make almost every other option better. I would propose they be reworked to do the following:

Effects work on all nearby Guardians. Effects work on Fireteam Members regardless of distance. You also receive these effects.
Use of a Grenade gives friendlies Melee/Ability energy. .
Use of a Charged Melee gives Grenade/Ability Energy.
Use of a Class Ability gives Melee/Grenade Energy.
The more Aeon cult armor pieces in the Fireteam or close proximity increase energy granted.

Eye of Another World, Nezarec’s Sin, Crown of Temptests, Sunbracers are all more lucrative for ability up time for Warlocks, without even touching on the other utility options like Ophidian Aspect or Lunafaction boots. Hunter and Titan Exotics also have more use and utility than the Aeon Cult gear. I’m not running a Titan or a Hunter with the purpose of fueling a Warlock with Grenades.

And if such a buff steps too much on the toes of other exotics in theme, then maybe they need a stronger theme, too.

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Team Buffs: Why they aren't so great. Why aren't they? (Destiny)