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It is also unfair and cynical to act like the people talking aren’t genuinely excited about what they are doing. Even if it isn’t a deep dive behind the scenes, it isn’t like they’re reading cue cards covered in bullet points.

And let's say you think they are doing that. You think that they're feigning enthusiasm, and they don't really care, and they can't wait to get out of the hellhole that is Bungie now. My question for those who believe that is, why are you still here? Why are you playing Destiny or following Destiny? If it's just to be THAT GUY, the one whose every post is an opportunity to snark and hold yourself above the people who like where Destiny is now, then I say go away, please. You're not helping. You may think you are, but you're not.

It is also unfair and cynical to act like the people talking aren’t genuinely excited about what they are doing. Even if it isn’t a deep dive behind the scenes, it isn’t like they’re reading cue cards covered in bullet points.

My sweet Summer child...

In this eight minute video, the Annual Pass is directly mentioned or shown on screen eleven times, and by almost every pair of people shown (having different people pitch an idea at you is level 1 advertising).

Bungie made sure to hire a good video director, who had the pairs occasionally talking at each other (as if one of them wouldn't be aware of the thing their department has been working on for months), so it wasn't coming off as them just hyping a product at you, the viewer, but at each other, making them excited about the product they're selling you. Level 2 advertising!

Sure, this video isn't as bad as the ones that came before it, but they are very much reading bullet points and buzzwords. Directly mentioning things that Reddit has targeted their way (I especially like the moment where Steve Cotton specifically references the "Take risks, even if they don't land!" issue, before immediately saying "The Forsaken™ Annual Pass is about continuing...")

I'm not saying any of them was at gunpoint blinking morse code at the camera, of course they enjoy their job, or they wouldn't be there. But the careful marketing is obvious.

It is also unfair and cynical to act like the people talking aren’t genuinely excited about what they are doing. Even if it isn’t a deep dive behind the scenes, it isn’t like they’re reading cue cards covered in bullet points.

I don’t have any problem with a game company genuinely talking about how they love their game and can’t wait for us to play it. But as Korny said, this feels like it is selling the concept of the pass, not the excitement of the game as the old Vidocs seemed to do.

Yeah, this is it right here. I mean all the Vidocs were sales videos at the end of the day, but they felt more fan focused before and not a pitch to buy stuff.

So if it wasn't labeled as a ViDoc would you (and Korny, or anyone who seems to be upset that this exists) be... more OK with it?

I mean, they can use whatever name they want for it. That part is ultimately irrelevant (although ViDoc has historically meant a look into the sausage-making process and/or a dialogue about aims and challenges. You know, a sort of video documentary on the developer and their work), the issue is the content. It's a thinly-veiled plea to purchase the Season Pass for their underperforming game, and it just feels... not desperate, but insincere.

I wanted to see what they've been working on, and I got that, I guess. But they keep pitching the Season Pass as "this is us listening to feedback and stepping it up with a constant stream of content!" When it's essentially making people pay the same money for trickled out content that's seemingly not even CoO in size, scope, or potential. But Annual Pass!
Annual Pass!
Dev 1: Have you heard about our Annual Pass?
Dev 2: Whoah, really, PREMIUM content?
Dev 1: ADDED LAYER OF VALUE!

Maybe if the title included the term "Annual Pass" in any capacity, it'd be more honest. The video is mostly an ad blurring the stuff you pay for and the stuff you don't. But given how they've split this into the Battle Royale seasonal-trickle model, they've made it difficult to really advertise this stuff any other way, but again, this video feels much more like an eight-minute informercial than a ViDoc.

I'll admit it doesn't feel like some of the old ViDocs, but it's not like any other Destiny or D2 ViDocs have been really behind the scenes like the H3 ones. Heck, even the Reach ones feel more like marketing than a documentary about the making of process. I mean, you're the one who preaches about how much the culture has changed, do you really think they could make ViDoc's like they use to?

Absolutely. Fans want communication. They want understanding. Bungie should know this with how well-loved and well-received their ViDocs have been since the days of Halo 2. Is it really that hard for them to talk about what they do? What their process is? Is it really that hard to get someone to talk about their passion? When the most recent (completely free) expansion for Warframe was about to drop, over 40,000 people watched a stream of the Project Lead Steve Sinclair talk about the game and what went into it, as he and his team tried to fix a final batch of bugs before it launched. It wasn't new footage. It wasn't carefully edited videos of folks having a gay old time telling us why we should give them money. It was a tired dev working hard as he talked about his passion. This stuff matters to people.

Would it be beneficial for them as a company?

If there is one single idea that's become one of the biggest issues in gaming in the past couple of years, it's communication. It's goodwill.

Their ViDocs are one of the single biggest reasons that I bought Ninja Theory's Hellblade, and even having the game, I still go back and watch them. If you communicate with people, they will often want to help you achieve your hopes and dreams (unless you're a weird cynic who only feels envy/sadness when you see other people succeeding, but that's a whole 'nother topic).

When it comes to communication or honesty, Bungie faltered, 343i faltered, DICE faltered, Bethesda has faltered. Every single one of these companies has had to issue "We're sorry, we're listening! We'll communicate more moving forward!" proclamations/apologies. And why? Because their sales figures were hurt. This stuff absolutely matters. Look at sales for Battlefield V, or Fallout 76. How you communicate with your audience matters.

Everyone points to companies like CD Projekt Red and Digital Extremes as examples of how you communicate well with your community, and in DE's case, how you can afford to mess up, because people know you will course correct. Because those devs have shown people what their work is like, what their ambitions are, why they couldn't quite reach them, and what they're doing moving forward. They've put out real ViDocs.

I mean, maybe it's just me, but I respect stuff like that. Seeing Bungie's idea of communication being an extended commercial just asking me to give them more money for a product they won't deliver for months to a year? and on top of that calling it a ViDoc? I dunno. It just doesn't sit well with me.

Yeah, this is it right here. I mean all the Vidocs were sales videos at the end of the day, but they felt more fan focused before and not a pitch to buy stuff.

So if it wasn't labeled as a ViDoc would you (and Korny, or anyone who seems to be upset that this exists) be... more OK with it?

I'll admit it doesn't feel like some of the old ViDocs, but it's not like any other Destiny or D2 ViDocs have been really behind the scenes like the H3 ones. Heck, even the Reach ones feel more like marketing than a documentary about the making of process. I mean, you're the one who preaches about how much the culture has changed, do you really think they could make ViDoc's like they use to? Would it be beneficial for them as a company?

Unknown.

That Halo 2 behind the scenes that shipped with the special edition left a ton out. As one person put it, Jim MCQuillan knows where all the bodies are buried :-)

The two raids alone would be worth it for me. Assuming I can actually do them with you guys!

1 exotic quest for Last Word (Like the Thunderlord quest? Oh boi!)

Or maybe like the Whisper quest, which has been almost universally praised, and pointed to by Bungie as the type of event they'd like to do more of.

Not really sure why you need to be snarky about this.

Who knows, maybe ditching campaign means more resources going into the raid lair, which would upgrade it to proper Raid status, but considering the way those resources are being spread into three DLCs this time, instead of two, it may be smaller than usual.

I have mixed feelings on this.

Bungie ditching a campaign is good in the sense that their storytelling has been embarrassingly poor in general with the Destiny games. However, the campaigns do present the setting to you, which somewhat contextualizes all the truly fun activities.

A game that is just raids or other challenging activities that lack story would lose something I think. We are beyond the time when challenge alone was the dominant driving factor in immersion. This worked with older games because they were not as sophisticated in their audiovisual presentation to immerse through aesthetics. But games now are. In some sense aesthetics are more effective at immersion than pure challenge. But as the aesthetics of the game are very sophisticated, they feel hollow if not accompanied by some kind of contextualization for their existence.

It may make the game 'better', but the game would be better still if it utilized every avenue for immersion. You could get away with games of pure challenge back in the day because everything else was primitive. But now we have moved on and challenge is not the most important thing anymore.

It may be the best fix right now, but ultimately Destiny needs a solid campaign and narrative to really shine.

I don't think you actually need a full on campaign. As you said, you need context. Without knowing we are fighting a war (like the red one) the crucible doesn't make as much sense. Without seeing the queen and awoken and how prideful, reclusive and all that the dreaming city doesn't seem like a beautiful sanctuary. It all needs context and just seeing these people in the game and telling you clips of stuff doesn't do it all. You need missions that tell story. They don't need to be full on campaigns but we have to SEE these people and how they act to understand what this world is like.

Excellent points, both of you.

It actually reminds me of something folks were talking about a while back, with special regards to the "Just steak vs. Seasoning/sides/meal" metaphor, and SkillUp's talk about how cinematic quests like The Sacrifice are essential, even if they don't add new systems, loot, or gameplay content.

Bungie tossing story aside in favor of lore is a huge misstep that Bethesda just made with Fallout 76, and which clearly did not pay off, as the game's over-reliance on lore has led to a soulless world, and which removed any sense of agency, because you aren't being driven to accomplish something that will push the story forward, you're just looking backwards.

I don't have an issue with lore. I have never disliked stuff like audiotapes, environmental storytelling, books, or Lore Tabs. These are all the "noble pursuits" in storytelling; essential to flesh out your world, give players understanding, and giving context to the status quo... But we need cinematic quests involving us, so that we can feel a sense of importance or progress.

Sure, we can do a raid lair or two without meaningful context, and that'll be fun... But after a while, it's just another item on a weekly checklist that we aren't invested in (Spire of Stars, anyone?). And what has changed afterwards that can give players a sense of story progression? Like you said, what can give us a sense of immersion, and a feeling of impact?

With that push, did you find yourself enjoying it more than you had or still he same frustrations you have voiced about the mode?

Both, actually. ;) (Fewer frustrations, but they're still there.)

Part of it was a conscious decision to accept bad events without blowing up. I think it's been healthy. ;)