In Halo 2, visible ranks influenced the way people in played. Some people would delete accounts to reset their true skill rank to have an easier time climbing to the top. Some hired others to play their account or they paid for a cooked account. Others quit the game repeatedly to avoid accruing losses etc. Our reaction isn’t about shame, it’s that visible ranks change people’s behavior.

But in Destiny, you can’t delete your account without losing all your gear. Quitting repeatedly already bans you from matchmaking. Ranks still might cause some problems, but I’d be surprised if it gets as bad as the Halo 2 days. We’ll have to see how it shakes out.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. The one thought I did have is that deleting an account is more significant in Destiny than it was in Halo. That might be enough to curb some of the misbehavior, we'll have to see about the other stuff.

Good points. There are more incentives to keep an account than H2 ever had so hopefully that goes away.

However, I also remember people bitching about being teamed up with low ranked players in the lobby. It was just a bad mindset because each game counted for your rank. Seeing a weak link in the lobby potentially hurt your future rank. When rank is on the line people have less patience with each other. Plus who doesn’t love an e-penis measuring contest?

But in Destiny, you can’t delete your account without losing all your gear. Quitting repeatedly already bans you from matchmaking. Ranks still might cause some problems, but I’d be surprised if it gets as bad as the Halo 2 days. We’ll have to see how it shakes out.

Losing games intentionally in order to de-rank (and consequently get matched against lower-ranked players) was also a thing in Halo 2. I vividly remember being matched with teammates who would just stand there and throw grenades at their own feet all game.

And it seems that the people who don't mind it won't have low ranks.

I've always said that Ranks (and the people who cry for them) are stupid. They have zero positive impact on the game other than making a bunch of sweaty, impotent shut-ins feel better about the void that they have from a lack of fulfillment in their personal/social lives, while giving them something to lord over anyone who simply doesn't play the game as much as they do.

It's asinine, and the fact that some people impose value on the stupid little epeen causes a negative experience for others. People who don't have a high rank now have this scarlet letter stamped on them, no doubt giving them a sense of unease/anxiety when playing with new people.

I hate ranks, the people who want them, and the horse they rode in on.

Seems to lack empirical support, but I have not had a chance to read the Bungie post.

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And I think they should… if used skillfully. But if you miss… then you should get wrecked by a primary. Primaries should not be as powerful as specials. They should just be easier to use, more forgiving, and more reliable than specials.

Risk / Reward.

I'm not sure how you can make shotguns less forgiving, nor snipers. Removal of the quick/swipe scope technique is a given, but that already has people up in arms in D2.

It's tough. If you do things like slowing player movement, then you promote camping. Slower reloads or fire rate helps, so players have to play smarter to manage the weapon. D2 did a great job balancing snipers; a body shot does fairly low damage, while headshots remain 1HK. People complain about snipers being underpowered, but the Borealis is one of the only Heavy weapons that I take into crucible (another being the Wardcliff coil, when I forget to switch out of it).

As much as some people whine about it, having a single player picking up Heavy at a time while trickling the drops throughout the game was a great way to balance the Heavy/special presence in a match, though Bungie decided to do that while also lumping Specials in with Heavies.

I feel like Snipers and shotguns should hold much more ammo and do more damage in PvE, to make them truly Heavy. As it stands, there's no reason to use either in PvE, when rockets and Swords do far more damage, and with more forgiving ammo.

Also, getting rid of all aim-assist should be a thing for Heavies. Half the time it just gets you killed anyway...

In Destiny 2, Kinetic and Energy Weapons essentially perform the same utility role. Yes, there is some variety thanks to the different kinds of weapons (hand cannons vs auto rifles vs Scout rifles, etc). But while those options do impact your optimal range of engagement, they basically perform the same role. A Kinetic Hand Cannon and an Energy Auto Rifle both get used in the same way against the same enemies. They are both general, all-purpose weapons with similar time-to-kill at similar ranges with similar ammo restrictions and DPS potential. The Energy Weapon has the perk of burning shields faster, but that is a relatively minor difference, with no downside or drawback to prevent you from treating it like a 2nd primary. So while playing with 2 primary weapons does give you the ability to chose 2 different weapons that are ideally suited to 2 slightly different ranges of engagement, they don’t have that much impact on how you play. Your killing the same enemies equally quickly, just from a little closer or a little further away. You’re not “switching gears” the way you would in D1 when you go from using your Scout Rifle to your Fusion Rifle.

This paragraph might be mostly accurate if you're discussing Patrol, but it's way off the mark when playing any higher-level activities (Nightfall, Raid, Heroic Adventures, even Heroic Strikes, to some degree). There's a HUGE difference between an Energy AR and a Kinetic AR, in terms of how much ammo is required to take down a tough shielded enemy (all of these activities have LOTS of these).

If I'm not paying attention, I can go through a whole clip of Better Devils ammo (14 rounds in my MW version) before I even TOUCH a Wizard's health - it all gets used on shield. If, instead, I spend half a clip of Positive Outlook AR bullets first, to remove the shield, I can burn her down with Better Devils in less than a half a clip. That's not just considerably faster, it's much less ammo. If I took your advice, and treated the two slots as pretty much interchangeable, I'd be out of ammo for most of my fights.

It's not a relatively minor difference. It's HUGE.

Against shielded enemies during high-level activities, the difference in effectiveness does become more significant. You’re absolutely right about that. But it doesn’t change the way you play in the manner that switching between Primary and Special Weapons did in D1. And considering special weapons also did elemental damage, that additional tactical layer was still present on top of the dynamic gameplay changes.

One method that could have been/still could be attempted would be ammo drops for specific weapons classes. This is actually substantially more upsetting to the core flow we are familiar with, but would allow for a more directed selection of power weapons to be familiar with. Though I doubt it fits design goals it might be something as follows:

"X map has one Rocket Ammo pack spawn, two Fusion packs, and a Sniper pack."
"Y map has three Shotgun Ammo packs, two Grenade Launcher packs, and a Sword drop."

Though I think that it would still best function within the KEP structure of weapons over D1's PSH spread. However, I think the issue has more to do with relative power of the Power Weapons within that slot. Given how they are balanced it feels more like the Rocket/Sword/Fusion slot in PvP most matches. But that leads us to other balancing issues.

In Destiny 2, Kinetic and Energy Weapons essentially perform the same utility role.

So, in some regards, yes. In others, no. Kinetic weapons actually do more damage against unshielded enemies, by about 10% for Precision Auto Rifles for example. Both Crit and Non-Crit.

Against red bar Fallen in Outskirts in the EDZ, both at 335.
Origin Story
Crit: 75
NCrit: 30
Shield: 30

Uriel's Gift
Crit: 68
NCrit: 27
Shield: 81

I understand that regarding their base usage they are roughly the same, but that is more an effect of range than the actual weapon in most cases. A Sniper Rifle is used, tactically, in the same method as a Scout Rifle is, but most especially when you are using the Scout at greater distance. To contrast, you move around with an SMG in a similar fashion to the way you would with a Shotgun or Fusion Rifle, but they better resemble each other from an actual combat judgement standpoint the most when you use them at the same ranges.

Now, having more flexible ranges and/or more overlap in your Kinetic and Energy weapons will make them feel more similar, but going Scout/SMG is very similar, tactically, to Scout Shotgun, and to the same with Auto Rifle with a High Impact Scout to AR/Sniper.

You’re bang-on in terms of the analogies between scout rifles and sniper rifles, or SMGs and shotguns. There are major differences though. Snipers and Shotguns have much much higher DPS potential, mitigated by limited ammo. They also have far more specific use cases. I can use a Scout Rifle at close range and get away with it, just like I can use an SMG at medium range and scrape by. But a shotgun goes from 1-hit-kill to utterly useless in just a few steps. Sniper Rifles are extremely punishing against missed shots, due to small clips and limited ammo. So using a sniper involved getting as far away from enemy fire as possible, taking careful aim, pacing your shots, etc. But all the kinetic and Energy Weapons will work with the same basic play style. Like I said before, you’ll want to be a bit closer to your enemies if you’re using an SMG than you would using a Scout Rifle, but the difference isn’t THAT great. You’ll likely end up taking cover in most of the same places, using the same sightlines, killing adds in the same amount of time, roughly speaking. There are absolutely subtle differences between effectively using an Auto Rifle vs a Sidearm, or between using a kinetic weapon vs an energy weapon. But nothing that completely changes your approach to an encounter the way going from a D1 primary to a D1 Special would. And I miss that variety.