Weapon Tuning Update

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/45154

Interesting changes. Korny didn't get his guerilla fighter request.

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Aside from Universal remote being a primary and not needing special ammo, what is the point using it anymore?

It SHOULD have the max range in its class.... The name implies it.

I'm really displeased with how much shotguns have been nerfed since year one.

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I'm really displeased with how much shotguns have been nerfed since year one.

Was universal remote ever as overpowered as say, Thorn? Because the magnitude of the nerf would have you believe that. Is it even deserving of exotic stays anymore? It wasn't even that good before. I must be missing something. Occasionally being killed from a long range shotgun doesn't matter when you can kill them with your pulse rifle before they get close most of the time. You might get a few ridiculous kills here and there, but you are at such a disadvantage the rest of the time it becomes a net loss.

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Defenders with No Backup Planseemed to figure out something in the last few months. They were getting incredibly annoying. And that's saying something as it is extremely rare that I'll ever suggest a nerf to the "we expect you to get a negative k/d" Defender...

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I'm really displeased with how much shotguns have been nerfed since year one.

Was universal remote ever as overpowered as say, Thorn? Because the magnitude of the nerf would have you believe that. Is it even deserving of exotic stays anymore? It wasn't even that good before. I must be missing something. Occasionally being killed from a long range shotgun doesn't matter when you can kill them with your pulse rifle before they get close most of the time. You might get a few ridiculous kills here and there, but you are at such a disadvantage the rest of the time it becomes a net loss.

In my experience, I never saw it a lot, occasionally at best. Idk. At least one person below indicated they run into it frequently.... I disagree, but I don't play a ton of PvP.

UR should be a single, massive damage slug. The range perk should only work when in ADS, and honestly, it SHOULD feel a little OP compared to the average shotgun...it's exotic. I'm giving up my primary to use it, and my secondary options are more limited...

Idk.

I just flat out disagree with their logic and reasoning on this.

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For reasons.

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Often it would get paired with a sniper rifle, so you get the best of both worlds. Take people out if they get close, and otherwise camp or run and snipe (with fantastic shotty backup) to a very effective degree.

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I'm really displeased with how much shotguns have been nerfed since year one.

Was universal remote ever as overpowered as say, Thorn? Because the magnitude of the nerf would have you believe that. Is it even deserving of exotic stays anymore? It wasn't even that good before. I must be missing something. Occasionally being killed from a long range shotgun doesn't matter when you can kill them with your pulse rifle before they get close most of the time. You might get a few ridiculous kills here and there, but you are at such a disadvantage the rest of the time it becomes a net loss.

The biggest thing working in UR's favor is ammo; because it is a primary, you have virtually unlimited shotgun ammo for the entire match. That, combined with the extremely long range (for a shotgun), made it problematic in very specific cases. I don't see it often, but every now and then I'd run into a player who has mastered Titan skating, and they're zipping around the map with UR and No Backup Plans at ungodly speeds, mowing down foe after foe. They come barreling at you faster than you can react, blow you away from seemingly insane range, gain an overshield in the process, then haul-ass around the corner before your teammates can do anything about it.

All that being said, I don't run into it too often.

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And while I still suck at sniping, the weapon pair is a deadly combo. As long as you don't mindlessly rush at people, you can really wreck shop with it.

I also saw a hunter trying to stealth ambush people with it, but the limitations on stealth made that a very limited trick.

I'm concerned about the ogre killers in KF now that Blessings can't stack it will be much harder for them to take down the ogres.

I do wish they could have improved HC range a bit.

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I dont even use UR, but Im hoping it's range reduction to 75% and not by. Guess we'll see.

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To be clear, the perk boost is getting nerfed by that percentage, not TOTAL range.

That being said, I'm still annoyed. As a person who doesn't do PvP, I couldn't give a crap less about how it performs there. The range boost it got a few months back FINALLY gave UR the range I always thought it should have had for PvE usage. And now it's (at least partially) gone.

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Kind of disagree here. I play almost exclusively PvP and Titans of all type are skating around, garrisoning, and killing people at absurd ranges with this gun. Given that no other character can move at the speed they do, I think a range nerf is fine for this weapon.

And the name doesn't imply range, it implies universality, as in, it can be used universally, i.e. in all scenarios.

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Good stuff. I mean, since they nerfed Universal Remote I now have absolutely zero reason to use a non-truth rocket launcher in PvP.

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[image]

Unless they fixed it by removing bonus ammo pickup, in which case goddammit.

EDIT: Just saw incredibly minor skip rounds buff! THANK GOODNESS I'VE BEEN STOCKPILING THAT NIGH USELESS PERK! HAHAHA

[image]

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Unless they fixed it by removing bonus ammo pickup, in which case goddammit.

All might not be lost. Since ammo pickup amount seems to be related to total capacity, the capacity increase MIGHT increase pickup amounts enough to make up for it. Will have to see how the math works out.

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Increased the starting strength for aim deflection (aka Flinch) when players take damage while scoped in from 30% starting to 50% starting

#Kornywasright, also #commonsense

With every subsequent hit, the strength of deflection increases until you hit 100% max deflection
Overall Sniper ADS aim deflection multiplier increased to 1.9x (was 1.85x)

#Kornywasrightagain #HighROFAutoRiflesShouldMakeItImpossibleToSnipeAtCloseRangeBungieComeOn

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...in that a damage nerf to what I would consider "high impact" snipers being classed as "mid-high impact" and getting a damage nerf. I sort of understand it, but not really -- because it will have a much larger impact in PvE than PvP. I'd call an overall damage nerf to fix the edge case of headshotting a person mid-super as a poor overall fix.

I hope some of the other improvements work out well in-game. They sound good on paper, but time will tell. We've seen multipliers change but have nearly no impact on gameplay before.

I agree, more flinch is better!

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I like the damage buff, it should bring more snipers into the fold in PvP. As for PvE, the problem really isn't the weapon, it's that the DPS requirements for the bosses are so high that you have to spec for a high impact sniper.

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the DPS requirements for the bosses are so high that you have to spec for a high impact sniper.

Do you "have to," though? I mean, is it actually impossible to succeed without a party full of Black Spindles? Or have players just somehow convinced themselves that the "ideal" loadout is the only loadout?

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Well, you're welcome to try it with a bunch of fusion rifles but don't think you'll be successful (thinking Warpriest, Golgoroth)

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That sidearm buff though..... who wants to try taking down Golgy from the pit with sidearms only?!?!?!

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The ammo-per-crate/damage ratio is absurdly higher in high-impact Snipers than most other weapons.

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I'm not in any way saying that they don't help, or that they're not statistically better. Yes, they can do more damage than pretty much any other single weapon. That is a known fact.

What I get annoyed with is this perception in the Destiny community that whenever we're playing together on a cooperative thing, everyone MUST use a particular weapon or class of weapon, all the time, no exceptions. People seem to believe that if 1 person in the group isn't using Black Spindle, the chance of success immediately becomes 0%. Which it obviously isn't.

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OK so the answer is no, then.

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Yes, was my "no" not clear enough?

Maybe its because I don't play with pugs, but I've never found mysekf in a situation where I've been required by my group to use a particular weapon.

That said, do I use the best weapon for the job as dictated by the design of the game itself, allowing as much wiggle room in terms of DpS checks etc. for my Fireteam? Sure I do. I probably could insist on using a Shotgun or Fusion Rifle for the Warpriest, but it's just not the right choice. Im sure I could also use a High-RoF sniper rifle, but I run out of ammo fast enough as it is. When every bullet counts, why not use the best ones you have?

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Yes, was my "no" not clear enough?

Sort of. It just sounded like you (and others) may have misconstrued my post as stating that high-impact snipers are not superior damage-dealers for most bosses (which they are). I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I do know that. :)

Maybe its because I don't play with pugs, but I've never found mysekf in a situation where I've been required by my group to use a particular weapon.

Lucky you. It's happened to me plenty of times. It comes down to attitude. There's a difference between everyone just wanting to do well, vs. REALLY getting on someone's case in an unfriendly way to use the "right" gun.

That said, do I use the best weapon for the job as dictated by the design of the game itself, allowing as much wiggle room in terms of DpS checks etc. for my Fireteam? Sure I do. I probably could insist on using a Shotgun or Fusion Rifle for the Warpriest, but it's just not the right choice. Im sure I could also use a High-RoF sniper rifle, but I run out of ammo fast enough as it is. When every bullet counts, why not use the best ones you have?

Yes, absolutely. No argument there at all. That really doesn't conflict with my view as far as I can see.

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Lucky you. It's happened to me plenty of times. It comes down to attitude. There's a difference between everyone just wanting to do well, vs. REALLY getting on someone's case in an unfriendly way to use the "right" gun.

Fair enough. That sucks, and I'm sorry you've had to deal with it..

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Lucky you. It's happened to me plenty of times. It comes down to attitude. There's a difference between everyone just wanting to do well, vs. REALLY getting on someone's case in an unfriendly way to use the "right" gun.

I'm so sorry, stabbim. I didn't mean to come across as unfriendly.

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Huh? I hope you're being sarcastic. If there's one person who's never annoyed me in a game, it's you.

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Huh? I hope you're being sarcastic. If there's one person who's never annoyed me in a game, it's you.

Wow. That's really nice. We need to play more. You should have heard me whining at someotherguy the other night.

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Wow. That's really nice. We need to play more. You should have heard me whining at someotherguy the other night.

I suspect that what you see as whining and what others see as whining are vastly different things. (:

We haven't played together a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, but doing blind King's Fall with you, I think I can safely say that you're one of players most likely to forgive and put up with other's dumb bullshit. I mean, our whole group was really good about being patient and putting up with weird crap, but you even moreso than most.

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Wow. That's really nice. We need to play more. You should have heard me whining at someotherguy the other night.

I suspect that what you see as whining and what others see as whining are vastly different things. (:

We haven't played together a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, but doing blind King's Fall with you, I think I can safely say that you're one of players most likely to forgive and put up with other's dumb bullshit. I mean, our whole group was really good about being patient and putting up with weird crap, but you even moreso than most.

Again, wow, and thanks. I do get irritated and impatient. Maybe I'm not so bad, but I feel like I do a poor job of masking it sometimes. An example: the other night I was playing with people who knew each other's real names and kept using them, and this affected my situational awareness and REALLY BUGGED ME. When you play with a lot of people, and a mix of people who you know to varying degrees, you just get used to using gamertags (even if many times you know real names). It also puts everyone on equal footing because gamertags are visible. Anyway, these kind folks started introducing themselves--skullboy is Kevin, Spongehead is Jim, and so on, and I was like "I DON'T WANT TO KNOW!" People laughed, but I felt bad, because I was definitely showing my ass.

I seriously given thought to how the raid could help a person become a more patient and flexible person--especially King's Fall, which is so frigging unforgiving.

About dumb bullshit, well, hey mote, look at me, see that beam. Yeah.

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Again, wow, and thanks. I do get irritated and impatient. Maybe I'm not so bad, but I feel like I do a poor job of masking it sometimes. An example: the other night I was playing with people who knew each other's real names and kept using them, and this affected my situational awareness and REALLY BUGGED ME.

That was you being really bugged? Dude, you're seriously what everyone else is saying here. We're all good.

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Glad you felt that way. I felt like I was being a jerk.

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After reading these replies, I'm starting to think there's just something about the way you speak that hides it. Must be that southern charm. Makes me wonder how often I've actually made you angry and didn't know it. :P

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After reading these replies, I'm starting to think there's just something about the way you speak that hides it. Must be that southern charm. Makes me wonder how often I've actually made you angry and didn't know it. :P

Can't recall that ever happening.

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You guys must not have experienced all the times Kermit kicked Destroyoboy out of the party, or just rage-quit and left the party without saying a word!

Not too mention he always demands to be the first gaze holder and refuses to ever be the relic runner!

;)

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You guys must not have experienced all the times Kermit kicked Destroyoboy out of the party, or just rage-quit and left the party without saying a word!

Not too mention he always demands to be the first gaze holder and refuses to ever be the relic runner!

;)

See, guys! I'm telling ya, I'm an asshole. Ask car15.

I have an idea for an event--a special raid day where I do all the hard jobs in all the raids: carry the relics, swords, grab the aura, or what have you. It will require a team of patient, mellow people.

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You guys must not have experienced all the times Kermit kicked Destroyoboy out of the party, or just rage-quit and left the party without saying a word!

Not too mention he always demands to be the first gaze holder and refuses to ever be the relic runner!

;)

See, guys! I'm telling ya, I'm an asshole. Ask car15.

I have an idea for an event--a special raid day where I do all the hard jobs in all the raids: carry the relics, swords, grab the aura, or what have you. It will require a team of patient, mellow people.

You missed 'jumping up to the plate'!

(I'm in. But really, only for the first 15 minutes. :) )

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Ask car15.

lol i <3 u

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I suspect that what you see as whining and what others see as whining are vastly different things. (:

I don't recall any whining :)

Now Chaos, on the other hand? What a whinger ;p <3

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I suspect that what you see as whining and what others see as whining are vastly different things. (:

I don't recall any whining :)

Now Chaos, on the other hand? What a whinger ;p <3

I'm sure I've whined and whinged.

Interesting stuff.

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Grif voice: "I understood that! I can speak British!"

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The difference is so big that, while it doesn't mean automatic failure, the mere presence of them mean more leeway in case things go south (which they usually do). If everyone has a Black Spindle, you can still finish if some of them die. The other way around? Not so much.

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Yes, that is all correct.

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OK so the answer is no, then.

I'd throw this in as a maybe instead of a flat out no. I ran the challenge mode on normal with some DBO people last week and I was doing 4x the damage of the next closet person. I was using a 335 black spindle set to maximize damage. Even doing that, we barely made it before enraging.

So while no, we don't have to use a certain weapon/subclass, doing the challenge modes allow for so little room for error that it's not wise to not use the best thing available.

with that said, the year 1 Gally requirements for LFG groups were stupid

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So while no, we don't have to use a certain weapon/subclass, doing the challenge modes allow for so little room for error that it's not wise to not use the best thing available.

OK, but... from a logical perspective, the idea that high-impact snipers are a literal "must" is still false. That's all I ever meant to say here. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm mostly just nitpicking language.

Saying that it's beneficial to use them is a true statement. Well, unless you're a person who always misses 1 of the 3 Black Spindle shots. Not that I know anyone like that...

with that said, the year 1 Gally requirements for LFG groups were stupid

That is pretty much the exact attitude that drives me up the wall, yes.

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It's going to be so bad that they don't want to tell us before we buy the expansion.

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It's going to be so bad that they don't want to tell us before we buy the expansion.

I'm pretty sure I've heard them imply it will be the same as the post nerf Gjallarhorn in a few interviews.

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As it still melts Y1 content/patrol bosses.

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Interesting. I like the boost to Dreg's Promise. I like the boost to my heavy Hakke pulse rifle. Don't like the damage increase to the lighter pulse rifles. Oh, and they nerfed Snipers. Yay! (And sorry to all the people who do like sniping.)

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Oh, and they nerfed Snipers. Yay! (And sorry to all the people who do like sniping.)

Not being able to shut down supers just took the purpose out of running this weapon. So now we just have to run away from hammer bros and automatically die to stormtrance? sounds awesome.....

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Oh, and they nerfed Snipers. Yay! (And sorry to all the people who do like sniping.)

Not being able to shut down supers just took the purpose out of running this weapon.

No, the purpose of running snipers was to headshot people just out of shotgun range without zooming in. :P

Personally, I'm happy with the nerf. If you want to shut down supers take a high rate of fire sniper and just peg them with bodyshots quickly.

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Oh, and they nerfed Snipers. Yay! (And sorry to all the people who do like sniping.)

Not being able to shut down supers just took the purpose out of running this weapon.

No, the purpose of running snipers was to headshot people just out of shotgun range without zooming in. :P

Personally, I'm happy with the nerf. If you want to shut down supers take a high rate of fire sniper and just peg them with bodyshots quickly.

Yeah and I was never really happy that a single headshot could shut down a lot of armored supers. This sounds like you'll get an extra split second to do something while using your super. Of course the supers themselves still need balancing, but that's another conversation.

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I love sniping, but also agree with the changes they are making to them. :)

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FABIAN STRATEGY MIGHT FINALLY GOOD. PLEASE BUNGIE PLEASE.

Oh wait no its just a better AR than previously. I guess that's fine, but it would be awesome if it actually did something interesting. "Is a good version of those mediocre weapons" hardly feels Exotic.

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Yeah. I appreciate any buff but having it actually DO something special-er would be cool too.

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I am unsure whether you guys don't know that it fires fast (but stable) when close to enemies, or if you just don't think that's enough?

Or, third possibility: Perhaps you only used it when it first came out, and the exotic perk was broken? The gun definitely did not feel special then, I'll admit. Mostly because it wasn't (it did still have stability and handling buffs, but they weren't enough on their own). If so, they fixed that.

Also, today's buff DID make it do something special. Partial reload on kill. AFAIK, only Zhalo Supercell did that previously (not counting Bad Juju's full reload on kill).

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With the magazine size reduction in the other fastest firing auto rifles, the partial refund gives it a boost in the number of enemies you can engage at close range before reloading compared to the legendary rifles. I do wish they had extended the range for the front lines perk to start.

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Dunno what you guys are on about, but I was absolutely mowed down by it yesterday when playing Control with Raga. My Bad Juju had absolutely no chance.

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I've used both versions extensively. My problems with it (before today) were:

1. It gains fire rate and stability as you get close but doesn't actually gain more bullets. This means activating its signature feature reduced your damage output. Maybe the DPS went up, but damage per reload dropped off a cliff.
2. It never felt near as good as something like the current Suros Regime. Might be me preferring a bit more distance to the target but I felt guns like the Suros, Monte Carlo, or even Hard Light... to me.

I do agree Fabian Strategy will do something a bit more special now, but useful to the Crucible? I don't find Bad Juju's instant reload compelling enough for Crucible use. Not enough targets. I suspect I'll find a partial reload with a shorter ranged gun even less useful...

But maybe it'll all add up. A nice range and stability increase + the partial reload might make it a gun I like to use instead of a gun I want to like to use.

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This means activating its signature feature reduced your damage output.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You're firing the same number of bullets per reload, right?

Is it actually reducing the damage per bullet when the fire rate increases? I mean, I know faster firing ARs generally do less per round, but that doesn't dynamically scale for Fabian Strategy, does it? Or... does it? I guess I've never compared the damage numbers.

Or maybe you're just assuming that you'll miss more shots with the higher fire rate (although for me, the stability increase seems to make up for that)?

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It does less damage per round at the faster fire rate. It just changes archetypes. With a relatively smaller mag than some of the other high fire rate auto rifles, it didn't do so well. With a partial refund it may be better, at least for trash mobs. Kinda like Bad Juju, Zhalo, and SGA. I see it as a fun PvE weapon, but it might not be to go to for PvP.

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This means activating its signature feature reduced your damage output.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You're firing the same number of bullets per reload, right?

Is it actually reducing the damage per bullet when the fire rate increases? I mean, I know faster firing ARs generally do less per round, but that doesn't dynamically scale for Fabian Strategy, does it? Or... does it? I guess I've never compared the damage numbers.

Or maybe you're just assuming that you'll miss more shots with the higher fire rate (although for me, the stability increase seems to make up for that)?

From the Nov 20th weapon tuning update:

Fabian Strategy
Currently the effect of Front Lines is subtle and requires close attention to notice. The new approach to Front Lines focuses on a more tangible experience: we increase the base Rate of Fire stat and push the weapon up to the fastest firing Auto Rifle archetype, enabling the weapon to do more damage in less time (as long as you don’t miss). The visceral reply of the weapon as it cranks through the magazine feels much more appropriate for a Titan on the front lines, and the already ample Stability boost helps keep the rounds tight and focused. The new approach exposed a few bugs with magazine inconsistencies so we needed to retrofit the stat upgrade perks with new options.

Changes:
Front Lines perk on Fabian Strategy no longer buffs Rate of Fire as a bonus modifier. Front Lines now increases the base Rate of Fire stat to highest speed. Damage per bullet is offset to match the High RoF archetype.
Removed Extended Mag perk and replaced with Flared Magwell. Removed Small Bore perk and replaced with Rifled Barrel. Needed to make these changes to prevent shipping a magazine bug that could trigger when reloading the weapon while Front Lines perk was active.
Increased base Reload and Stability on the weapon to help offset the removed stat upgrades.

The Fabian Strategy has always felt underpowered and underranged to me. Knowing that it actually gets less powerful as you get closer always annoyed me. Maybe now it will be a bit better but I'm not sure it will be good enough for me to swap away from something like Hard Light or Monte Carlo.

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Unless Fabian Strategy pre-"buff" functioned in a completely different manner to every single other weapon in the game to-date, that "subtle" difference was a non-existent one.

Maybe that's the case, but it seems quite unlikely.

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Yeah. I couldn't tell any difference before they gave it its first upgrade. Either it was broken or someone thought that gaining a couple frames in your reload was worthy of an exotic perk...

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As I recall, the perk did nothing before the first retool. So what it was when it was first available was a generally above average mid-impact auto. Then they made change the perk to swap your archetypes without an ammo increase with proximity and changed stats/perk tree in a way that I don't remember being an overall benefit. Compared to Ace and Tlaloc both having dame improvements (ammo return on kill and root DPS increase respectively) the free Crowd Control wasn't as nice to have, requiring expenditure of ammo for that first kill. I just hope that the partial reload on kill is sufficient to keep you firing. Albeit I still think with the perk it should have been fixed to work as advertised, and just be a fire rate increase. There is so much competition for kills in close quarters I'm not even sure it would be that over powered, even if it's just the RoF increase with 4 instead of 2 impact.

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It was broken, in that the fire rate increase didn't happen (the handling increase did). That was why the final effect was "subtle" (aka not very effective).

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Ah, I was under the impression they were referring to the "fake" video showing a tiny, tiny, TINY increase in RoF that was doing the rounds at the time. Makes more sense that they would be talking about the handling. TIL.

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Ah! Suddenly a sub-thread I was really confused by makes sense. :)

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I'm wondering if it might start to make sense to investigate Tracking + Cluster Bombs?

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I'm wondering if it might start to make sense to investigate Tracking + Cluster Bombs?

Cluster bombs seemed to work best for me when you hit the ceiling, and the bombs drop and spread. It was weird since all these years I learned to aim for the feet with a rocket launcher.

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Judging by the wording, it will completely remove blessing of light. Will make hard mode oryx harder. I'm guessing they tested it in the new raid and it was OP?

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Judging by the wording, it will completely remove blessing of light. Will make hard mode oryx harder. I'm guessing they tested it in the new raid and it was OP?

It's a good thing no one likes running that raid just for the fun of it :)

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I'm guessing they tested it in the new raid and it was OP?

To be fair, it was OP everywhere else, too.

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Judging by the wording, it will completely remove blessing of light. Will make hard mode oryx harder. I'm guessing they tested it in the new raid and it was OP?

Dunno, but yeah, totally hoses our standard Ogre strategy.

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Judging by the wording, it will completely remove blessing of light. Will make hard mode oryx harder. I'm guessing they tested it in the new raid and it was OP?

Dunno, but yeah, totally hoses our standard Ogre strategy.

I am betting 100% that this nerf has to do with Touch of Malice breaking some encounter in the new raid. With no Aura of Immortality, Blessing of Light would be the only way to keep the gun from killing you over a period of time.

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I'm not sure why it has to be raid-specific. I mean, the gun's just as powerful everywhere else. Granted, the reward stakes are higher in a raid (especially a new one), but that doesn't make the gun more OP than it is elsewhere. Frankly, the blessing trick has always been kind of a cheat and I'd be surprised if they hadn't been planning a nerf for quite a while.

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I get why they would do that, I guess. But it always seemed like it was "working as intended" to me. It seemed smart to make a weapon with a huge downside that you could pretty easily negate if you were a Defender or had one on your squad. Seemed like a good way to sort of sneak in an overpowered weapon.

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I get why they would do that, I guess. But it always seemed like it was "working as intended" to me. It seemed smart to make a weapon with a huge downside that you could pretty easily negate if you were a Defender or had one on your squad. Seemed like a good way to sort of sneak in an overpowered weapon.

Or just reward some creative thinking.

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Judging by the wording, it will completely remove blessing of light. Will make hard mode oryx harder. I'm guessing they tested it in the new raid and it was OP?

So this dropped today?

I worry for the folks that still need Oryx HM for their moments of triumph.

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Not as easy, because ammo problems. But doable.

Plus I never heard about the HM cheese involving not killing the ogres until last minute (and therefore avoiding knights) being nerfed. Anyone know if that's still a thing?

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Not as easy, because ammo problems. But doable.

Plus I never heard about the HM cheese involving not killing the ogres until last minute (and therefore avoiding knights) being nerfed. Anyone know if that's still a thing?

HM was already hard enough for me, thanks. We wiped plenty even with BoL.

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I derped. Forgot we were doing NM the other day. Haven't done HM since release, so no clue how unpleasant that might be :(

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Once the relic comes out to let swords bounce back shots, plate holders will just aggro the ogre and reflect it's facebeams back, killing it. Then turn and snipe the knight. This frees up two players to do mob control and fill in the slack if a plate holder dies.

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Once the relic comes out to let swords bounce back shots, plate holders will just aggro the ogre and reflect it's facebeams back, killing it. Then turn and snipe the knight. This frees up two players to do mob control and fill in the slack if a plate holder dies.

I've never seen this but would like to.

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Weapon Tuning Update (Destiny)