I'm hoping the new light system makes hitting 310 not necessary, even for the hard mode raid.

Luke Smith posted (can't remember if it was on Neogaf or Reddit) that 300 is the max level for all content we'll be playing in the near future. Having gear that drops with ratings above 300 is a way to combat the "forever 29" syndrome that plagued vanilla Destiny. With the current system, you can be stuck with sub-300 boots or whatever, and still pull your light level up to 300 with other gear. Going above that is just a bonus.

This and other comments make me wonder what hard mode is going to be. I doubt they're going to just crank up the level of the enemies. I hope they make the encounters more difficult mechanically. Do we even know that we're getting a hard mode? Maybe hard mode is already here & we just need to unlock it somehow from within the raid.

Well, we know we're getting the Raid on Heroic difficulty... because there's an Achievement for it. (They're not calling it 'Hard Mode' or 'hard difficulty' this time, they're calling it 'heroic', at least for the Achievement.)

I'm hoping the new light system makes hitting 310 not necessary, even for the hard mode raid.

Luke Smith posted (can't remember if it was on Neogaf or Reddit) that 300 is the max level for all content we'll be playing in the near future. Having gear that drops with ratings above 300 is a way to combat the "forever 29" syndrome that plagued vanilla Destiny. With the current system, you can be stuck with sub-300 boots or whatever, and still pull your light level up to 300 with other gear. Going above that is just a bonus.

This and other comments make me wonder what hard mode is going to be. I doubt they're going to just crank up the level of the enemies. I hope they make the encounters more difficult mechanically. Do we even know that we're getting a hard mode? Maybe hard mode is already here & we just need to unlock it somehow from within the raid.

I'm fine with a long raid… so long as the way to progress towards 310 doesn't involve getting lucky on drops from the raid. That might turn out to be the case, I don't know. Right now it looks like you'll only be able to get 310 items from 4 sources:

1. Exotic Engrams
2. Special Quests
3. Raid drops (hard mode hopefully is 310 always)
4. Trials of Osiris?

We are back to the problem of not being able to hit max level unless you get raid boot drops. Worse now since you'd need THREE to infuse your good boots with heavy ammo perks up to 310.

Everything would be so much better if infusion was 100%. Why it's 80% is beyond me. Even at 100% it'd still take longer than in HoW.

I'm hoping the new light system makes hitting 310 not necessary, even for the hard mode raid.

Luke Smith posted (can't remember if it was on Neogaf or Reddit) that 300 is the max level for all content we'll be playing in the near future. Having gear that drops with ratings above 300 is a way to combat the "forever 29" syndrome that plagued vanilla Destiny. With the current system, you can be stuck with sub-300 boots or whatever, and still pull your light level up to 300 with other gear. Going above that is just a bonus.

But what you're discussing actually seems to be more of "is the raid too long" than is it too hard.

This had occurred to me too, during our first run. But then our 2nd run clocked in closer to 3 hours. We're doing it again tomorrow night, and I'm expecting we'll get through in closer to 2 hours. We'll see how it goes.

Basically, I think the first few times through are always going to be the most demanding, especially if you're figuring it out as you go. I don't think we'll have an accurate sense of how long the raid really is for another few weeks.

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. Once we know how the encounters work, it drastically cuts down on completion time, and that's to be expected.

My issue is that the first time is arguably the most important, and if you want to remain unspoiled, the longer you go, the harder it is for that to happen. If the raids keep getting bigger and more complex, it gets harder still.

I think it's working out fine, but it hasn't been without stress. Getting geared up to do it as quickly as is reasonable is one source of stress, then there's the pressure to finish before the reset, but the ultimate source of stress is worrying about being spoiled. That's what ultimately driving me to finish sooner than later, especially as a daily reader of this forum. At some point spoiler tags will seem quaint.

If I had a committed group of friends with similar schedules who were hermetically sealed from the Internet, then I would worry much about it, and I might take a month or more to finish the raid bit by bit. I'm not sure anyone has that, though.

Next time I'm going to try to secure commitments to a multiple-day schedule earlier--maybe spend a big chunk of one weekend day (with generous breaks within), and have the assumption be we won't likely finish on that day, but we'll already have commitments from the same people to play through the next week, going faster through the spoiled sections.

Kermit

The "world's first" teams won't be affected by this change, and it won't affect those with all the time and dedication in the world to complete it. But for those of us who can't commit that much time in one week (even 8 hours in one week seems like a lot - especially when I need 5 other people online at the same time who also want to play the raid), avoiding the weekly reset would eliminate one barrier to entry and source of frustration.

Not sure that's worth any more than my $0.02.

While I get the enjoyment out of figuring stuff out, it's far outweighed, in my opinion, by the frustration of making simple mistakes and becoming annoyed with yourself and your team. And, when you understand the encounter and still can't do it? It sucks.

I still plan to try the raid once a week to see if it's easier, but I'm not treating it as a high priority event. Hopefully one day I'll finish it, but I don't expect to do it any time soon.

I think this raid was made for guys like Lukems, or a lot of us here, who really like complicated stuff and challenges, which is totally sensible. That's not my style. Raids are something to do while bullshitting with your friends to me, not a destination in themselves.

I understand why everyone loves this raid. But, if it wasn't for DBO, I would be one of those 60% or whatever who never finished Vault of Glass. And I'm all right with that. I'm not rushing this one. The raid was just designed in a way that is less compatible with my play style, and I'm bad at adapting.

I wonder if it would be better to have more smaller raids with more frequency, than wait for a single large Raid as we did with going from TDB to King's Fall. I don't think Prison of Elders was a great substitute for a Raid despite having raid like mechanics. Skolas felt more like lesson in tedious bullet sponge boss time.

If we could get a Raid for every new expansion that was closer to 8-10 hours long for an average group on the first go round on normal, I think I would prefer that over waiting 9ish months for one big one. I would also prefer a smaller time commitment as well. I think this would make it easier for everyone to go in blind and finish with the same team, which is something many of us desire.

Having said that, I'm totally happy with what we have. This raid is amazing in so many ways. It looks great, has crazy puzzles, is begging to be explored, tricky bosses that require strat and teamwork, and it will be great for those who desire to perfect techniques.

I'm fine with a long raid… so long as the way to progress towards 310 doesn't involve getting lucky on drops from the raid. That might turn out to be the case, I don't know. Right now it looks like you'll only be able to get 310 items from 4 sources:

1. Exotic Engrams
2. Special Quests
3. Raid drops (hard mode hopefully is 310 always)
4. Trials of Osiris?

We are back to the problem of not being able to hit max level unless you get raid boot drops. Worse now since you'd need THREE to infuse your good boots with heavy ammo perks up to 310.

Everything would be so much better if infusion was 100%. Why it's 80% is beyond me. Even at 100% it'd still take longer than in HoW.

I'm hoping the new light system makes hitting 310 not necessary, even for the hard mode raid.

I get what you are saying, and I submit that having a better light level does somewhat affect the difficulty of the raid, but what I'm addressing here is cheapLEY's comment about the initial length of the Raid and allowing a team/player to go through it unspoiled. I think that shorter Raids more frequently spaced would make it more enjoyable for casuals or those with less free time in general. Perhaps if the normal run took out a few encounters say a jump puzzle, a maze, and a mini boss fight, but then all of what we just did was available in the Hard mode release to give the hardcore guys that lengthy run and something new to explore to boot.

Addressing your comment, I personally haven't had any problems with any of the max level techniques from any of the versions of Destiny. I don't care about max level, and it really felt cheap for me to get max level in HoW so easily on all three characters. While I do play alot, I'm still casual hardcore. I don't have a desire to do the grindiest of the grind, or play the most punishing difficulties. I only attempted and completed Skolas once, and it was only to help someone else fill their team. I like the idea that there are people above me in ranking because they are willing to do the work I am not. They should be rewarded. Their level should be higher than mine. I don't think it should be tied to their gear though, with that we do agree. I think that to reach max level you should have to complete every single thing in destiny.

EVERYTHING includes, all story missions, all strikes, all raids on normal and hard, all prison of elders 32, 34, 35, any quests that are story related and not for a specific piece of gear (this is tricky and may need to be altered), all gold chests, all ghosts, 1 trip to lighthouse, reached level 5 in one IB, at least 1 completed nightfall of the current expansion, all calcified fragments, and maybe more. This probably seems grindy, but I don't give a #$%#. Max level should mean something and if someone can do all this, they deserve the awe people will have when they spawn in to the tower and everyone is like AWWWWEEEE shit, he's a FORTY!!!!! :)

I wonder if it would be better to have more smaller raids with more frequency, than wait for a single large Raid as we did with going from TDB to King's Fall. I don't think Prison of Elders was a great substitute for a Raid despite having raid like mechanics. Skolas felt more like lesson in tedious bullet sponge boss time.

If we could get a Raid for every new expansion that was closer to 8-10 hours long for an average group on the first go round on normal, I think I would prefer that over waiting 9ish months for one big one. I would also prefer a smaller time commitment as well. I think this would make it easier for everyone to go in blind and finish with the same team, which is something many of us desire.

Having said that, I'm totally happy with what we have. This raid is amazing in so many ways. It looks great, has crazy puzzles, is begging to be explored, tricky bosses that require strat and teamwork, and it will be great for those who desire to perfect techniques.

I'm fine with a long raid… so long as the way to progress towards 310 doesn't involve getting lucky on drops from the raid. That might turn out to be the case, I don't know. Right now it looks like you'll only be able to get 310 items from 4 sources:

1. Exotic Engrams
2. Special Quests
3. Raid drops (hard mode hopefully is 310 always)
4. Trials of Osiris?

We are back to the problem of not being able to hit max level unless you get raid boot drops. Worse now since you'd need THREE to infuse your good boots with heavy ammo perks up to 310.

Everything would be so much better if infusion was 100%. Why it's 80% is beyond me. Even at 100% it'd still take longer than in HoW.

I'm hoping the new light system makes hitting 310 not necessary, even for the hard mode raid.

If we could get a Raid for every new expansion that was closer to 8-10 hours long for an average group on the first go round on normal, I think I would prefer that over waiting 9ish months for one big one. I would also prefer a smaller time commitment as well. I think this would make it easier for everyone to go in blind and finish with the same team, which is something many of us desire.

Having said that, I'm totally happy with what we have. This raid is amazing in so many ways. It looks great, has crazy puzzles, is begging to be explored, tricky bosses that require strat and teamwork, and it will be great for those who desire to perfect techniques.

I think sometimes people think the point of a blind raid is to be surprised. For me, it's not. The point is to solve problems and puzzles with your friends. Even if they stay silent about the raid your first time through, the opportunity for a blind raid is lost.

I also understand why people don't want to spend their game time doing something that is almost exclusively composed of failing without even being sure if you should keep trying, but it sounds fun to me because eventually you will won't fail and you got there all together.

When you talk about the success of a blind raid, don't forget that it's not the activity of raiding without foreknowledge that you like, it's the manifestation of the fact that you found a group of people that you have so much faith in, and enjoy so much that you like failing with them more than you like succeeding with others. That's pretty rare and great.

But what you're discussing actually seems to be more of "is the raid too long" than is it too hard.

This had occurred to me too, during our first run. But then our 2nd run clocked in closer to 3 hours. We're doing it again tomorrow night, and I'm expecting we'll get through in closer to 2 hours. We'll see how it goes.

Basically, I think the first few times through are always going to be the most demanding, especially if you're figuring it out as you go. I don't think we'll have an accurate sense of how long the raid really is for another few weeks.

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. Once we know how the encounters work, it drastically cuts down on completion time, and that's to be expected.

My issue is that the first time is arguably the most important, and if you want to remain unspoiled, the longer you go, the harder it is for that to happen. If the raids keep getting bigger and more complex, it gets harder still.

But what you're discussing actually seems to be more of "is the raid too long" than is it too hard.

This had occurred to me too, during our first run. But then our 2nd run clocked in closer to 3 hours. We're doing it again tomorrow night, and I'm expecting we'll get through in closer to 2 hours. We'll see how it goes.

Basically, I think the first few times through are always going to be the most demanding, especially if you're figuring it out as you go. I don't think we'll have an accurate sense of how long the raid really is for another few weeks.