As a married guy without kids yet, a hundred times this. I think the problem many of us still face is that gaming is not seen by others as a social activity with the same social consequences for canceling.

Take these two conversations:

Other people - "Hey, want to grab lunch with us?"
Earendil - "I'd love to, but I'm grabbing a drink with my brother"

Other people - "Hey, want to grab lunch with us?"
Earendil - "I'd love to, but I'm playing video games with my brother"

Perhaps you and I can see those as equal social responsibilities, but many people do not. They don't understand why you can't just not play video games and accept their invitation. They may respect the fact that you game, the same way they respect that you watch TV. But like TV, it's not (often) seen as a social activity that is a valid excuse for not hanging out. To my Wife's credit, she is slowly coming around to the idea. She still has a hard time responding to other couples when they ask us to do something, and her response has to be "We can't, my husband is busy gaming tonight".

That's why you don't specify, you just say you have plans, or "a prior obligation" if the pressure is on.

Why can't we just say "sorry, I'm playing video games"? I've thought about my gaming habits for a while now. I do play more since destiny came out, for long blocks at a time. I thought, why would I essentially sit here for 6 or 8 hours on a saturday playing games?

Then I reflected on a few of my other hobbies. I've always been a pretty avid hunter, usually still hunting for deer. "Still" hunting meaning you sit still for the entire time. Usually in a stand or blind. I can spend up to 10 hours in a stand, with only a snack and some water waiting, staring into the woods. And no one ever questions me about that (Note: I'm from the boonies). How is that really any different/better for me. Yes I get some exercise walking out to my stand, (It's about a 2 mile slog through the swamp, but if I had an ATV it would only be 10ft climb). Yes I get some fresh air and sunshine, but it's not very active physically or mentally. At least when I'm gaming, my mind is in a constant mode of problem solving or strategery. And I can get up to eat, do a chore, stretch my legs, pee. Hunting is all about being super quiet and still so as not to spook the animals. Even a quick head turn can ruin an outing.

TL;DR Gaming is not something you should have to justify or be ashamed of.

I think a lot of people struggle with the idea that a gaming session is something worth planning and scheduling, like it is going to a show or any number of other enjoyable social activities. I've said before that some of non-DBO friends don't seem to get it, responding to attempts to plan things with "Yeah, I might be on then." I understand adult responsibilities, but for activities that require a certain headcount, that means you don't usually get to do that activity unless you can commit to the thing ahead of time.

Who wants to do that though? I'll do it, there's years of evidence to back that up, but it would be nice to not have to. Scheduling things and gathering people is work, or at the very least it's boring, and games are supposed to let you get away from work and have fun. It's not just responsibilities either, people might not want to be obligated to do your thing instead of some other leisure activity they might feel like doing at that time.

Many other worthwhile social activities don't pivot on happenstance and whether you feel like it at the moment. Why shouldn't social activities within the context of gaming also require a bit a planning and commitment? The benefits outweigh the costs to my mind.

The big killer is combos. No outlaw/crowd control. No outlaw/firefly. No headseeker/reactive reload.

These were basically the best combos and the best, most important perks. So, while the number is seemingly small, these were the perks on guns people KEPT.

You are not correct. The old perks are not still there. You cannot get them on new legendariles. You cannot get field scout on a scout rifle anymore. You cannot get send it on a hand cannon anymore.

I'd like to see a citation on that. I've gotten plenty of old perks on new weapons. I know certain perks won't show up on just any weapon, but I'm pretty sure that's always been the case.

Dude, there are CERTAIN OLD PERKS no longer available on regular legendaries. Of course you can get the old perks they kept. Many were flat out replaced. Trials / PoE weapons can have some of these old perks, but not regular legendaries.
Load up Destinydb, and look at the perks available on regular legendary Scout rifles from House of Wolves. Field Scout is gone. Just one example.

Well I never noticed anything missing. Being able to get most of the old perks (I'm pretty sure almost all of them) means that part of your argument is mostly not true, and it doesn't address the ability to get almost any perks on almost any legendary just by spending some resources and time, or new weapons with better stats than old ones, or the interplay of perks.

As a married guy without kids yet, a hundred times this. I think the problem many of us still face is that gaming is not seen by others as a social activity with the same social consequences for canceling.

Take these two conversations:

Other people - "Hey, want to grab lunch with us?"
Earendil - "I'd love to, but I'm grabbing a drink with my brother"

Other people - "Hey, want to grab lunch with us?"
Earendil - "I'd love to, but I'm playing video games with my brother"

Perhaps you and I can see those as equal social responsibilities, but many people do not. They don't understand why you can't just not play video games and accept their invitation. They may respect the fact that you game, the same way they respect that you watch TV. But like TV, it's not (often) seen as a social activity that is a valid excuse for not hanging out. To my Wife's credit, she is slowly coming around to the idea. She still has a hard time responding to other couples when they ask us to do something, and her response has to be "We can't, my husband is busy gaming tonight".

That's why you don't specify, you just say you have plans, or "a prior obligation" if the pressure is on.

Does it really, really suck when your friends don't magically show up at the same restaurant you decided to go at the last minute? And hey, if you have or had five friends who were consistently there whenever you logged on ready to raid, you're ahead of me and most other people. I'm a bit incredulous that you're stuck on the outside EVERY night or that finding two people to play with is harder than five, but okay.

It might a psychological thing. He mentioned people seeing full fireteams and logging off. That doesn't surprise me. Meanwhile, I've seen people sit in a partly-full co-op or multiplayer lobby waiting for the last person or two to join for an hour before.

I think a lot of people struggle with the idea that a gaming session is something worth planning and scheduling, like it is going to a show or any number of other enjoyable social activities. I've said before that some of non-DBO friends don't seem to get it, responding to attempts to plan things with "Yeah, I might be on then." I understand adult responsibilities, but for activities that require a certain headcount, that means you don't usually get to do that activity unless you can commit to the thing ahead of time.

Who wants to do that though? I'll do it, there's years of evidence to back that up, but it would be nice to not have to. Scheduling things and gathering people is work, or at the very least it's boring, and games are supposed to let you get away from work and have fun. It's not just responsibilities either, people might not want to be obligated to do your thing instead of some other leisure activity they might feel like doing at that time.

You are not correct. The old perks are not still there. You cannot get them on new legendariles. You cannot get field scout on a scout rifle anymore. You cannot get send it on a hand cannon anymore.

I'd like to see a citation on that. I've gotten plenty of old perks on new weapons. I know certain perks won't show up on just any weapon, but I'm pretty sure that's always been the case.

Dude, there are CERTAIN OLD PERKS no longer available on regular legendaries. Of course you can get the old perks they kept. Many were flat out replaced. Trials / PoE weapons can have some of these old perks, but not regular legendaries.

Load up Destinydb, and look at the perks available on regular legendary Scout rifles from House of Wolves. Field Scout is gone. Just one example.

Nope. It was mostly not about that but why waste an opportunity to derail a thread with theory discussion?

You're right, otherwise people might think you don't have a one-track mind and don't want to insert yourself into every discussion ever.

You are not correct. The old perks are not still there. You cannot get them on new legendariles. You cannot get field scout on a scout rifle anymore. You cannot get send it on a hand cannon anymore.

I'd like to see a citation on that. I've gotten plenty of old perks on new weapons. I know certain perks won't show up on just any weapon, but I'm pretty sure that's always been the case.

I had already beaten the game before I ever realized that Big circle missions were "main 'story'" and small circles were "side missions." The game never explained that, either.

And I just learned this now from you ;-)

Then again, Cody only learned that you could stand on the pillars in the Vault of Glass and be relatively safe from the supplicants months after we got the Flawless Raider trophy and he had run VoG at least 40-50 times.

Odds of me being online prior to 8 pm PST are very, very slim as my kid doesn't go to bed until then. Usually I'm not on until around 8:30 because the kid loves story time (which obviously means Destiny is out... there's no story!).

The PS4 DBO crew tends to be most active between 8pm - 10:30pm PST. Heck, Cruel doesn't even start playing until 9:30 PST (and he's on the East Coast!!), so there is almost always enough people to get a raid going, or a few people that are willing to run PoE or Trials around that time.

I had already beaten the game before I ever realized that Big circle missions were "main 'story'" and small circles were "side missions." The game never explained that, either.

And I just learned this now from you ;-)

The game lacks solo content and it seems to not be on Bungie's radar at all

I have a friend who doesn't really have any online friends, and is always texting me asking me questions about the game. Basic stuff like what Etheric Light is, how to get it solo (I told him Iron banner's the only way), what to do with shards and energy now (he didn't know the speaker can now exchange them) and what he can do in the game by himself.

It became kind of apparent that lots of this stuff is both not explained well in terms of instructions, or else is not very 'discoverable'. We know it because we read the updates and all the forums and stuff, but he didn't even know what a treasure key did!

I see why the lone wolves can get a bit overwhelmed. Bungie could legitimately make it a bit easier to meet people to do higher level content with. Not matchmaking, but just a better way to make those friends without going to DBO or /r/fireteams.

Agreed.

This game required you to have an internet browser pointed at Bungie's website in order to get the lore, the updates, and the explanations of new content. I hate that about the lore, but the updates... That would be standard practice if the game included any text like "for balance changes and new content, go to bungie.net" when updates happened.

In general, the game does a horrible job of guiding players through the game. You kind of have to know what's going on already.

Like: In the game, is there *any* actual explanation of enemy shields and that they take more damage from like colored sources? I don't recall one, and it's a counter-intuitive system. If I see someone with a flame shield, my assumption would be that it protects from flame, not takes extra damage from it.

I had already beaten the game before I ever realized that Big circle missions were "main 'story'" and small circles were "side missions." The game never explained that, either.

The tangible impact of many of the item properties such as "light and snappy" or "handles beautifully" are never indicated or explained in-game (though you can generally get a feel for them as you play).

All of these things contribute to what makes the game feel "incomplete" as I often say, and requiring that you log on to a website to get basic information about the game feels, to me, like a cop-out.

The game lacks solo content and it seems to not be on Bungie's radar at all

I have a friend who doesn't really have any online friends, and is always texting me asking me questions about the game. Basic stuff like what Etheric Light is, how to get it solo (I told him Iron banner's the only way), what to do with shards and energy now (he didn't know the speaker can now exchange them) and what he can do in the game by himself.

It became kind of apparent that lots of this stuff is both not explained well in terms of instructions, or else is not very 'discoverable'. We know it because we read the updates and all the forums and stuff, but he didn't even know what a treasure key did!

I see why the lone wolves can get a bit overwhelmed. Bungie could legitimately make it a bit easier to meet people to do higher level content with. Not matchmaking, but just a better way to make those friends without going to DBO or /r/fireteams.

Thanks for the explanations.

My gamertag on PSN is, indeed, Kahzgul. I may not be on tonight (the wife has the night off for the first time in several years), but I'll definitely be on around 8:30 pm, PST, tomorrow. I'll check out the event scheduler and see if I can't do a thing with some DBO people (it's my first time; please be gentle).

Cheers!

Here's what I usually run: Co-op Night on the Xbox (of no interest to you). Deeply Flawed Raiders on the PS4 (Thursdays at 9 EST). The post for that usually goes up on Wednesday.

I understand that the latter is a conflict for you, but being on the west coast seems to be large advantage for playing on the PS4. The most active players here play later than I do.

Sent a friend invite regardless. If you're ever on earlier than normal (and your REAL friends aren't around ;)), let's play.

Kermit

Got the invite :)

Spent my night tonight hunting ghosts while I listened to my buddies play ToO... /sigh.

Odds of me being online prior to 8 pm PST are very, very slim as my kid doesn't go to bed until then. Usually I'm not on until around 8:30 because the kid loves story time (which obviously means Destiny is out... there's no story!).

I have never used it because I don't like people, but it exists. The question is, is it possible to implement with Destiny's set up? It sure would be swell! Even if it was a ping all friends playing this game right now button, so we see "Funkmon needs help on *mission or whatever*" pop up at the bottom line contacting Destiny servers is on, that would be swell. My primary motivator for playing this game is friends anyway, I'd help whenever I could.

I'd take this option, too, but for making Destiny more like how it was initially described, I like the active in-game option best. Of course, they first need to solve the problem of you not being able to join the person standing beside you in the Cosmodrome without going to orbit.

I'm not sure how easy it is to fix the go to orbit thing. If I understand correctly, based on that networking talk a while back, you can kind of think of that person beside you as playing Two Betrayals while you play Assault on the Control Room. There are stretches of the two levels where the two of you might be able to follow each other just fine, say across the side by side bridges, but even if you ignored all the enemy differences between the two levels, eventually one of you will come across a locked door that opens on Assault on the Control room but has no scripting and so remains shut for Two Betrayals.

In Halo, if you want that door to open you need to stop playing and load the other mission. Destiny, for all it's wonder and advancements, probably works the same way. While you are in a public area the two of you share the same mission scripting but when you cross into your mission's Darkness Zone you are now running the scripting for your particular mission and your friend isn't. And since Destiny is a lot like Halo, engine wise, the only (current) solution is to stop playing (go to orbit) and reload the mission. That's a bit simplified from what I think is actually going on, but I hope it gets the point across. Destiny, like Halo, probably can't load new mission specific scripting without exiting the player from the simulation.

That said, I want a distress beacon feature even if I still have to hit orbit. :)

that you can toggle on or off. Then you could at least act like you could communicate with people in-game, even if the speech bubbles were kind of announcement-based status updates rather than full on instant messaging. kind of a personal MOTD that you could set. As it is, I occasionally get random invites from the reef/tower anyhow, with no communication as to why.

Me, too.

Thanks for the explanations.

My gamertag on PSN is, indeed, Kahzgul. I may not be on tonight (the wife has the night off for the first time in several years), but I'll definitely be on around 8:30 pm, PST, tomorrow. I'll check out the event scheduler and see if I can't do a thing with some DBO people (it's my first time; please be gentle).

Cheers!

Here's what I usually run: Co-op Night on the Xbox (of no interest to you). Deeply Flawed Raiders on the PS4 (Thursdays at 9 EST). The post for that usually goes up on Wednesday.

I understand that the latter is a conflict for you, but being on the west coast seems to be large advantage for playing on the PS4. The most active players here play later than I do.

Sent a friend invite regardless. If you're ever on earlier than normal (and your REAL friends aren't around ;)), let's play.

Kermit