But I get your point, and really, I even agree with it. ;)

I'm marking this day on the calendar ;p

Joking aside, this does seem to be one of the few issues that just about everyone agrees on. I'll be surprised if Bungie doesn't address it in the near future.

My proposal is to give players a piece of a 'key' after each round, and after building their full key they can get the final reward, AND have checkpoints.

Give them the CHANCE of a PIECE of a key. BRILLIANT! ;-)

Here's a completely hypocritical thought... do we really need more guns?

Not really. All of the Prison Of Elder's gear is terrible. The only thing worth chasing are the ciphers, and the remote possibility of an elemental primary drop from Skolas. Of course, with Trials elemental primaries being much more fun to get, I think I'll be done with PoE once I get the ciphers and the bow / shotgun.

My proposal is to give players a piece of a 'key' after each round, and after building their full key they can get the final reward, AND have checkpoints. This will prevent people from sharing the final checkpoint & just playing the final phase for the lootz, yet will still allow people to practice on an encounter, which they may be stuck at, until they can figure it out.

Perfect. You are a genius.

Our Skolas run did not go so well. We had to call it quits. But like, you don't get drops along the way like in a raid, so there's nothing to show. And we have to start over next time. I don't know why on earth Bungie doesn't let you keep checkpoints with the same fireteam.

The issue, and what I don't get, is that you go full Casual and expect to be rewarded for failing to complete the game's top-tier challenge. You get rewarded at the end. If you fail/give up, you get nothing, and you have to start over.

Sounds pretty fair to me...

And before you nitpick and say "but disconnections!", remember that Bungie is actively working on a Reconnect thing.

The point I am making is that it should not be all or nothing. Even Trials, which is ostensibly the elite hardcore PvP experience, lets you walk away with SOMETHING if you do poorly.

lol - depends on what you mean by 'poorly'. ;) (We walked away with nothing last week. We did really poorly. ;) )

But I get your point, and really, I even agree with it. ;)

It's just different than the other content, so it is taking some getting used to. I want to know that my teammates can do it before I spend an hour on it. That's my new rule for PoE 35.

But the thing is, if it's your first time doing it, you aren't going to know what you are doing. You're probably not going to get it right away because the fight is complicated. Normally, you'd get there, experiment, find a strategy, and eventually do it. This is how it was with the raids.

But with no checkpoints, you have to start over. This means that unless you know exactly what to do, AKA are spoiled, then you are most likely going to waste time. And why would I play something if I'm just going to be told how to do it? Figuring it out yourself is basically the entire reason for playing the game.

That's not right. Old arcade games made you start over because they were never any longer than 35 minutes. PoE 35 is probably double that, if not more.

Step one: checkpoints after every round. Bungie can restrict these to only the same fireteam if they have some aversion to people mixing and matching like the raids.

Step Two: Rewards after every round, starting small, and ending big

Step Three: Skolas should always drop something

I agree with you. I was just stating my new realization with the way it stands now -- I don't want to teach the fight to a new person unless I'm sure that they will learn it fast and succeed. Otherwise it will take a couple hours and we might not make it. You can't learn it without failing a lot.. The adds swarm you if you move the wrong way. You will die to splash damage if you stay in a safe spot too long. Etc. I had a great time learning that stuff the first time and would encourage others to try it out and go in expecting no rewards at all.

Here's a completely hypocritical thought... do we really need more guns? Isn't playing games a reward in and of itself?

Step one: checkpoints after every round. Bungie can restrict these to only the same fireteam if they have some aversion to people mixing and matching like the raids.
Step Two: Rewards after every round, starting small, and ending big
Step Three: Skolas should always drop something

My proposal is to give players a piece of a 'key' after each round, and after building their full key they can get the final reward, AND have checkpoints. This will prevent people from sharing the final checkpoint & just playing the final phase for the lootz, yet will still allow people to practice on an encounter, which they may be stuck at, until they can figure it out.

It's just different than the other content, so it is taking some getting used to. I want to know that my teammates can do it before I spend an hour on it. That's my new rule for PoE 35.

But the thing is, if it's your first time doing it, you aren't going to know what you are doing. You're probably not going to get it right away because the fight is complicated. Normally, you'd get there, experiment, find a strategy, and eventually do it. This is how it was with the raids.

But with no checkpoints, you have to start over. This means that unless you know exactly what to do, AKA are spoiled, then you are most likely going to waste time. And why would I play something if I'm just going to be told how to do it? Figuring it out yourself is basically the entire reason for playing the game.

That's not right. Old arcade games made you start over because they were never any longer than 35 minutes. PoE 35 is probably double that, if not more.

Step one: checkpoints after every round. Bungie can restrict these to only the same fireteam if they have some aversion to people mixing and matching like the raids.

Step Two: Rewards after every round, starting small, and ending big

Step Three: Skolas should always drop something

I like the whole fight (and completed it the slow way on arc and void), but I think this might be a good change for everyone. So it will still be a challenge, but not as easy to wipe when someone dies.

dog decides to employ hand-eye motor coordination

*paw-eye

Our Skolas run did not go so well. We had to call it quits. But like, you don't get drops along the way like in a raid, so there's nothing to show. And we have to start over next time. I don't know why on earth Bungie doesn't let you keep checkpoints with the same fireteam.

The issue, and what I don't get, is that you go full Casual and expect to be rewarded for failing to complete the game's top-tier challenge. You get rewarded at the end. If you fail/give up, you get nothing, and you have to start over.

Sounds pretty fair to me...

And before you nitpick and say "but disconnections!", remember that Bungie is actively working on a Reconnect thing.

The point I am making is that it should not be all or nothing. Even Trials, which is ostensibly the elite hardcore PvP experience, lets you walk away with SOMETHING if you do poorly.

Honestly, I've been terrified of doing it since. I'm irrationally worried that as soon as I enter the arena, our sunny skies will turn black with rage, or the bill will come back unpaid or my dog decides to employ hand-eye motor coordination and unplug the damn thing.

The issue, and what I don't get, is that you go full Casual and expect to be rewarded for failing to complete the game's top-tier challenge. You get rewarded at the end. If you fail/give up, you get nothing, and you have to start over.

Based on Bungie's game design though, that isn't an outright "fail". The game rewards you each small victory and, usually, leaves the big rewards for the harder or final battles (Mythoclast, Fatebringer, etc.). PoE's loot system is a big departure from Destiny's loot stream. Due to the length of time it takes to beat Skolas, I don't think it is a good change.

Our Skolas run did not go so well. We had to call it quits. But like, you don't get drops along the way like in a raid, so there's nothing to show. And we have to start over next time. I don't know why on earth Bungie doesn't let you keep checkpoints with the same fireteam.

The issue, and what I don't get, is that you go full Casual and expect to be rewarded for failing to complete the game's top-tier challenge. You get rewarded at the end. If you fail/give up, you get nothing, and you have to start over.

Sounds pretty fair to me...

And before you nitpick and say "but disconnections!", remember that Bungie is actively working on a Reconnect thing.

Skolas is reportedly Solar burn this week, so he should go down real quick-like this time, and you can consider that your consolation prize.

Our Skolas run did not go so well. We had to call it quits. But like, you don't get drops along the way like in a raid, so there's nothing to show. And we have to start over next time. I don't know why on earth Bungie doesn't let you keep checkpoints with the same fireteam.

The issue, and what I don't get, is that you go full Casual and expect to be rewarded for failing to complete the game's top-tier challenge. You get rewarded at the end. If you fail/give up, you get nothing, and you have to start over.

Sounds pretty fair to me...

And before you nitpick and say "but disconnections!", remember that Bungie is actively working on a Reconnect thing.