The sad thing is when he wasn't yelling his enthusiasm was actually kind of infectious; when he got excited about the scorch cannon, I got excited too, then he started screaming his head off again and I went back to tuning it out and turning it down.

I genuinely liked his excitement. The whole time I was thinking, "This is exactly what I imagine I'll be feeling the first time I get to experience this for myself." Though, to be fair, I was listening through a pair of Aftershokz headphones, so the sound wasn't directly in my ear. If I had been wearing earbuds, I might have been more than a little upset at having to make the choice between watching the stream or preserving the little hearing I have left.

-Disciple

If you go back and watch the stream archive, audio levels seem to be all over the place. I was constantly tuning my volume slider the whole time, and not just because of Broman.

Look at the individual raid mechanics. They're pretty stupid easy. We clear Crota in 30 minutes, Atheon in an hour on casual play now. Once you get the mechanics, it's easy. This will continue to be difficult despite understanding the mechanics of the raid.

And the first time doing a raid with no help, how long did it take? Did you even ever DO it with no help? That's my point, and that's the experience that is so amazing. They are easy now because you know them, but figuring them out is wicked fun. PoE has none of that whatsoever.

Vault of Glass opening second is still far and above any other Destiny experience by a huge margin.

That only happens once per player though, if it even ever happens, and most of the mechanics that I wasn't told about I was able to figure out quite quickly.
It doesn't make sense to design around something that only presents once unless you're actually building a puzzle game, and Destiny is not a puzzle game, it's a shooter. (Even in the case of a puzzle game, it's best to have depth beyond one correct solution, which you've talked about at length before with Portal versus Portal 2, weakening your own point with your own words.)
This is all ignoring the fact you've only seen 2 of the 4 rooms and you don't know how many different objectives there are, what they are, or how they work.

It's not a stretch to assume that the objectives will be much simpler than the raid objectives given a) it is a matchmade activity, and b) only 3 players means fewer moving parts.

And as a counter to Cody's argument, I find the best part about the raids is the last time you play it, not the first. Each playthrough is a chance to take what you've learned and do a little better. Try new formations, new weapon and ability combos, get through faster, more efficiently, etc.

I'm with Cody on this one. The very first time clearing the raids was great. Getting through the Abyss totally unspoiled was AMAZING.

The raids, however, then got old to me very quickly. Well before I ever got the gear to get into hard modes, in fact. Part of that is because RNG based loot drops are horsecrap, and three months into CE I still had only ever gotten boots and gloves despite many full clears. I have still never gotten a full set of VoG armor. Hard modes were a nice challenge, but only the Crota fight actually had different mechanics (and it sucks being 31 while everyone else in the group has been 32 for over a month). Everything else was basically the exact same as normal, sans revives and with bigger numbers.

This is a problem with raids in MMO games in general. As "beat this once" encounters, they're super fun. As "beat this every week, multiple times, for months on end" they suck ballsack (exacerbated by the fact that very often in MMOs you can't even attempt the next raid tier until everyone is fully outfitted from the current tier). I'm glad PoE will be different each time, but I'm also afraid that instead of being truly random, it will be "pick from a set of 12 fixed challenges" which will result in what is basically a pared down raid experience with variety but not surprises. At least the loot system is different. For that I'm VERY thankful.

The sad thing is when he wasn't yelling his enthusiasm was actually kind of infectious; when he got excited about the scorch cannon, I got excited too, then he started screaming his head off again and I went back to tuning it out and turning it down.

I genuinely liked his excitement. The whole time I was thinking, "This is exactly what I imagine I'll be feeling the first time I get to experience this for myself." Though, to be fair, I was listening through a pair of Aftershokz headphones, so the sound wasn't directly in my ear. If I had been wearing earbuds, I might have been more than a little upset at having to make the choice between watching the stream or preserving the little hearing I have left.

-Disciple

Like someone else here mentioned, it's hard to play and talk at the same time. I think a better system would have been for the guest to be with Deej and the designers in an observatory role, acting as a cipher for regular players and asking questions, while Bungie's testers demo what an ideal game session looks like.

They probably figured that someone who streams Destiny for a living would be both good at the game and able to be entertaining at the same time. Unfortunately, they chose the exact wrong person.

He basically said there are not nearly enough activities for high end players to pursue.

At the expense of what? Dude, by this reason, there is even less content for players who don't raid. Datto is literally the last person you should take an opinion from on this.

There's a lack of content for everybody. I said this on the first day. Right now the only thing I do are raids, nightfalls, and Crucible. Once I get a Hawkmoon, it's going to be only crucible.

I see your point, since if you don't raid then all you have are strike playlists.

End the Broman

At least he was a straight-shooter who asked the real questions. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed his being there.

The Triplewreck guy gave me a chuckle with how lame and awkward he was. Helped contrast his playing skills; made him human... but he was pretty much pointless overall.

This guy though... yeesh.

I've been thinking about this all day- Honestly, I think Goth worked so well (comparatively) because he functioned mostly as an interviewer for that stream, based on the fact that not much gameplay was happening.

Like someone else here mentioned, it's hard to play and talk at the same time. I think a better system would have been for the guest to be with Deej and the designers in an observatory role, acting as a cipher for regular players and asking questions, while Bungie's testers demo what an ideal game session looks like.

They could have made it work by talking between waves and between rounds-- and they did do that, but it didn't work, because I couldn't hear most of what they said, because I had the volume down so I wouldn't go deaf. That yelling really did pretty much ruin (for me) anything they wanted to present that wasn't gameplay. They should've had someone tell him over the headphones or via cue card or whatever to knock it off.
The sad thing is when he wasn't yelling his enthusiasm was actually kind of infectious; when he got excited about the scorch cannon, I got excited too, then he started screaming his head off again and I went back to tuning it out and turning it down.

It doesn't make sense to design around something that only presents once unless you're actually building a puzzle game, and Destiny is not a puzzle game, it's a shooter. (Even in the case of a puzzle game, it's best to have depth beyond one correct solution, which you've talked about at length before with Portal versus Portal 2, weakening your own point with your own words.)

If you think there is only one 'solution' to the templar fight, the confluxes, the death singer, or even Atheon, then you either have not raided much, or you lack imagination.

What? That's my point. They're designing for more than one solution. You can't find more than one solution (in practical terms) in one play-through. Ergo, I don't understand you saying they should focus on raids and specifically on the experience of running a raid for the first time-- or did I misunderstand, and you were just going on a tangent to say that you liked what they did with that?

He basically said there are not nearly enough activities for high end players to pursue.

At the expense of what? Dude, by this reason, there is even less content for players who don't raid. Datto is literally the last person you should take an opinion from on this.

End the Broman

At least he was a straight-shooter who asked the real questions. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed his being there.

The Triplewreck guy gave me a chuckle with how lame and awkward he was. Helped contrast his playing skills; made him human... but he was pretty much pointless overall.

This guy though... yeesh.

I've been thinking about this all day- Honestly, I think Goth worked so well (comparatively) because he functioned mostly as an interviewer for that stream, based on the fact that not much gameplay was happening.

Like someone else here mentioned, it's hard to play and talk at the same time. I think a better system would have been for the guest to be with Deej and the designers in an observatory role, acting as a cipher for regular players and asking questions, while Bungie's testers demo what an ideal game session looks like.

End the Broman

At least he was a straight-shooter who asked the real questions. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed his being there.

The Triplewreck guy gave me a chuckle with how lame and awkward he was. Helped contrast his playing skills; made him human... but he was pretty much pointless overall.

This guy though... yeesh.

You bet they're making more raids. Gotta keep the hardcore happy. It looks like Bungie is doing a pretty good job of developing activities across a variety of playstyles:

Dude, Datto JUST made a video about how Destiny is heavily focused on the casual at the expense of the hardcore player. He basically said there are not nearly enough activities for high end players to pursue.

And as a counter to Cody's argument, I find the best part about the raids is the last time you play it, not the first. Each playthrough is a chance to take what you've learned and do a little better. Try new formations, new weapon and ability combos, get through faster, more efficiently, etc.

Correct, because the raids are NOT like Portal 2 and only have one specific solution to the fights.

It doesn't make sense to design around something that only presents once unless you're actually building a puzzle game, and Destiny is not a puzzle game, it's a shooter. (Even in the case of a puzzle game, it's best to have depth beyond one correct solution, which you've talked about at length before with Portal versus Portal 2, weakening your own point with your own words.)

If you think there is only one 'solution' to the templar fight, the confluxes, the death singer, or even Atheon, then you either have not raided much, or you lack imagination.