But consider the opposite side: For those of us who have forked over the hundreds of dollars for a new console, it is becoming more and more clear that Destiny is not the game it could be because of the need to support old consoles (the vault space situation is just the latest reminder of that). The "next gen" experience we paid for is really just a last-gen game with prettier visuals. That ALSO kinda sucks, and isn't exactly fair to us early adopters.

Sometimes... you guys... I don't even know...

- All grenades are more lethal in both PvE and PvP. This includes PvE enemy grenades, which are dramatically more lethal. Like, to the point of actually being lethal.

HAHAHAH, sorry I couldn't help the last part of this. I don't know about PvP, but PvE Enemy grenades are useless. I don't even bother with moving when they are thrown at me. Only when it's nightfall and the element is the current grenade is thrown at me do I consider moving.

- Iron Banner has been totally reworked. Player level no longer has any affect on Iron Banner. Iron Banner armor now has no light level at all, but has the "Iron Lord" perk. The "Iron Lord" perk grants the player 10 more health in PvP and sets their character level to the current maximum during PvP. The health bonus stacks.

That sounds... really terrible.

The PvP armor shouldn't be useless in PvE, and it shouldn't be so unbalancing in regular Crucible.

- No Land Beyond no longer generates a red "scope" indicator when aiming down sights.
- Hand cannon accuracy at longer ranges increased. Hand cannon damage dropoff at medium and long range is much steeper.
- Heavy ammo in PvP despawns after 30 seconds on the ground. It's otherwise the same as it was at launch.
- Keyhole perk allows golden gun to penetrate titan shields.
- Red Death's perk now regenerates only health, not shields.
- Pulse Rifles with increased stability are now capable of three headshots at medium range due to the reduced kick per shot within a single burst.
- PvP maps will not repeat as long as you remain in the same lobby.
- Spawn points in PvP are no longer fixed. Rather, you will always spawn at a fixed distance from the central spawn point, with preference being given to spawning near your teammates.
- On spawn, players in PvP are immune to damage for 4 seconds.
- It is easier to connect with Titan Melee attacks if the enemy is within range.
- The gunsmith will now allow you to change the scope options for your weapons at a cost of motes of light for blue weapons and ascendant energy for legendary weapons.
- Faction vendors can now change the default (no shader) color of all armor to match their faction colors at a cost of ascendant shards.
- Added numerous new mission types to patrol including "survive an invasion," "rescue a guardian," "clear out an enemy position," "Capture an enemy vehicle," "Call in an orbital strike," "Revive fallen ghosts," and many others.
- You may now choose which area to spawn into when entering Patrol mode.
- Most enemies now have weak points on their backs, making flanking a superior tactic in PvE combat.
- All grenades are more lethal in both PvE and PvP. This includes PvE enemy grenades, which are dramatically more lethal. Like, to the point of actually being lethal.
- PvE enemy snipers now generate a red "scope" indicator when aiming at you.
- Iron Banner has been totally reworked. Player level no longer has any affect on Iron Banner. Iron Banner armor now has no light level at all, but has the "Iron Lord" perk. The "Iron Lord" perk grants the player 10 more health in PvP and sets their character level to the current maximum during PvP. The health bonus stacks.

Unless it's less stable or accurate than everything else in class (which I'm pretty sure it isn't), buffing its magazine size to normal levels would be a bit unbalancing, relative the archetype, which would imply that the buff should apply to the whole family?

Although I'm like, the only person who uses that archetype as their go to (though I also am having fun messing around with Bad Juju and The Last Word, now and then, not as much in PvP). I think the archetype was balanced just fine, if a little underpowered, pre-patch; there's some rejiggering needed now, though.

Sounds more like "are" to me.

Sounds like "what have they to say now" to me...

Dropping support or development of the last gen isn't going to happen. It's on Cody's wish list because, frankly, putting all resources into the current generation of consoles would probably be Bungie's best bet. Could you imagine if Destiny 2 got the fast track somehow, launched next year, and was everything Destiny 1 should have been and more? Talk about a turn around! Unfortunately, that's not going to happen. Frankly, I'll be shocked if this Comet thing lives up to any hype or drastically improves Destiny.

Edit: And this is all coming from someone who actually still enjoys and has fun with Destiny, problems and all!

Ultimate consensus was "What have they to say now?"
Good times. *lone tear*

You see where this gets pretty damn financially unreasonable, don't you, Cody? As much as making the world's best game might sound, having a definite goal and limits is what makes it possible for developer companies to even exist.

The "best game they could make" would run only on the best possible console, which no one could afford to own. Going down this road eventually leads to questions like whether or not God can microwave a burrito so hot even he cannot eat it.

I don't follow. The best console currently available is the PS4 and the Xbox One. That would mean making your game for those consoles. Tons of people can afford these consoles.

Don't do anything halfway, man. In order to make the best possible game, they'd obviously have to make their own console. No compromises, dammit!

Having the item lock to you upon someone leaving or joining the game sounds kinda crappy. What if a LFGer in our group drops right away when I want to give you my 42nd Hawkmoon drop? It should only be possible to give/exchange drops with those who were present when the drop happened, up until you & the recipient start another activity. (Isn't it the case that nightfall rewards don't show up in your inventory until you actually hit orbit?).

Actually that's perfect. Make trading only available on the rewards screen, but actually have it come up quickly after a raid.