Oh, no worries, I never read the article

And people say I'm closed minded and stubborn. Seriously.

Glad to see so much evidence that they are really putting a lot of thought into this game and its sequels. Some of the best storytelling on the planet has been in serial TV the last 10 to 15 years.

Just because it works in television, doesn't mean it will work in a game.

No one said it would. I think it's a mistake, however, to assume that there is nothing to be learned from a different medium. Artists have always been inspired by art in different mediums. If Hitchcock can be inspired by Picasso, why can't Bungie draw some inspiration from The Wire? The thought of the latter thrills me, frankly.

I linked it in HBO, and I'll link it here. This is an extraordinary post that explains what's wrong with this sort of approach. Call me a contrarian again, but I'd be much more confident if Bungie was inspired in their storytelling by other games, rather than by other mediums.

http://criminalcrackdown.blogspot.com/2011/03/trouble-with-being-batman.html

OR we'll come to a point where we realize- BECAUSE we are slaves (as we should be) to interactivity, that we should chase after emotions and ideas and scenarios that are special and unique to interactivity, versus simply trying to replicate the emotions that other mediums already offer up so naturally and so successfully. Perhaps interactivity will NEVER be able to create the sort of emotional longing that one gets when they watch ET fly away from Elliot...but we CAN do tension, terror, competition, anxiety, the joy of team work, the joy of learning through experimentation,etc,etc,etc probably better than ANY other medium. And I say why run from this? Why not plant our flag in the rich and still fresh soil of the emotions and responses that our medium excels at NATURALLY? Why are we so desperate to bogart emotions from other mediums? Perhaps those that are should just- you know- go work in those other mediums and then they'd be a lot more satisfied.

Yeah, I get it. You, Jonathan Blow, and the author of this piece believe that interactivity is king, and the only narrative that matters is the ludonarrative--what happens during gameplay. I have sympathy for that point of view.

There's a Manichean quality to these arguments, though. The argument is often that game designers are cheating when they use cinematic techniques in games, that the resulting output is the gaming equivalent of genetically modified crops, and should be shunned. Taken further, it's often viewed as a sign of insecurity that game designers do rely on techniques borrowed from other mediums. I say it can be, but I'm not a purist about it. It can also be a sign of artists doing what they do best--stealing. Halo would not exist without the inspiration that came from George Lucas, Larry Niven, and Ridley Scott. I can want the feelings and emotions I get from a movie or book in addition to those I can get from only a game. I can appreciate how it's familiar and different at the same time.

I'm not going to swear off Destiny because it has cutscenes, nor will I accuse Bungie of being desperate or trying to "bogart emotions from other mediums." It can be a sign of insecurity to strictly define your medium as only this thing, and anything else included as a bastardization. It's still a new medium, though, so I understand the need to argue for its definition.

Kermit

EDIT: One more thing, I have reason to think that Bungie is also taking inspiration for their storytelling from other games (Journey and Dark Souls, to name two), so be encouraged. :)

Well let me raise a counter to that quote.

Just because one person feels emotional longing when ET flies away, doesn't mean I don't cringe and find the whole movie uncomfortable.

We don't all experience stories the same way, and we don't all experience the same story. Nor do you have to find everything emotionally wrenching to enjoy it. I was at the theatre the other night (because I'm a classy bitch) to see an adaption of Taking Over the Asylum. I found the original TV series quite harrowing, but the play is charming and funny and much more light hearted. I cried at one point, not the part I expected to cry at. I expected I'd find the big reveal about Francine's condition to be the saddest, as that's what got me in the TV series. In the play, I found myself crying at a part where Francine makes a bit of progress with her condition. It's the same story in two different mediums, two different lengths, one of them much more interactive than the other, and both affected me in different ways. They were both very enjoyable.

First of all, thank you for at least reading what I consider one of the most important articles ever written about gaming. Second, what you are describing above is what's called 'taste' and 'intent of the artist', both of which have nothing to do with the point I, or the article are making.

It might be the exclusive content, I don't know. Not sure if I should say my source because I'm not sure it's officially announced yet, but they are someone close to Bungie.

Well then I hope you're not offended that I am going to stay skeptical until I see some kind of announcement.

No it's quite understandable. Just bookmark this post for future reference.

I think we're getting to the point where Day 1 DLC is a safe bet for any AAA title, sources or not.

Unless you are talking about exclusive content from vendors or for platforms like "gold weapons" and the like I heartily disagree. Bioshock Infinite (I just played it it's fresh on my mind) had 0 Day 1 DLC aside from that kind.

lol that's right *facepalm* Yeah, we're talking about the same kind of DLC (like ME3's From Ashes).

Infinite might almost be the exception to the rule, though. Well, soon it will be, I mean. Ish.

I think we're getting to the point where Day 1 DLC is a safe bet for any AAA title, sources or not.

Unless you are talking about exclusive content from vendors or for platforms like "gold weapons" and the like I heartily disagree. Bioshock Infinite (I just played it it's fresh on my mind) had 0 Day 1 DLC aside from that kind.

Just because one person feels emotional longing when ET flies away, doesn't mean I don't cringe and find the whole movie uncomfortable.

We don't all experience stories the same way, and we don't all experience the same story. Nor do you have to find everything emotionally wrenching to enjoy it. I was at the theatre the other night (because I'm a classy bitch) to see an adaption of Taking Over the Asylum. I found the original TV series quite harrowing, but the play is charming and funny and much more light hearted. I cried at one point, not the part I expected to cry at. I expected I'd find the big reveal about Francine's condition to be the saddest, as that's what got me in the TV series. In the play, I found myself crying at a part where Francine makes a bit of progress with her condition. It's the same story in two different mediums, two different lengths, one of them much more interactive than the other, and both affected me in different ways. They were both very enjoyable.

It might be the exclusive content, I don't know. Not sure if I should say my source because I'm not sure it's officially announced yet, but they are someone close to Bungie.

Well then I hope you're not offended that I am going to stay skeptical until I see some kind of announcement.

There's a difference between shitty day-one DLC and DLCs that are essentially mini-sequels or short stories that allow designers to play with an engine they've now mastered.

Guess what? Destiny is getting day 1 DLC. Think about that.

Just clarifying because I want to make sure I understand. Are you talking about the PS4 exclusive content? If not I'd like a source because I haven't heard anything about day 1 DLC.

It might be the exclusive content, I don't know. Not sure if I should say my source because I'm not sure it's officially announced yet, but they are someone close to Bungie.

There's a difference between shitty day-one DLC and DLCs that are essentially mini-sequels or short stories that allow designers to play with an engine they've now mastered.

Guess what? Destiny is getting day 1 DLC. Think about that.

I have. It sucks. And I don't take part in it. A lot of great games do that these days, and a lot of good movies also do 3D crap. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy the rest of it.

But we were talking about episodic narrative, not exclusive Gamestop camo guns or whatever.

Just clarifying because I want to make sure I understand. Are you talking about the PS4 exclusive content? If not I'd like a source because I haven't heard anything about day 1 DLC.

Sources are always nice.

Just finished playing that last night...OH.MY.FRICKIN.GOODNESS. I think absofrickinlutelyawesome is an appropriate word. Not a perfect video game, but, man, the story was sure ambitious and, IMHO, incredible to experience.

Yeah Bioshock 1 definitely had a better overall experience, but man the story in this, HOLY CRAP. I tried explaining it to someone today and just ended up confusing the crap out of them.

There's a difference between shitty day-one DLC and DLCs that are essentially mini-sequels or short stories that allow designers to play with an engine they've now mastered.

Guess what? Destiny is getting day 1 DLC. Think about that.

Just clarifying because I want to make sure I understand. Are you talking about the PS4 exclusive content? If not I'd like a source because I haven't heard anything about day 1 DLC.

I know this is a major sticking point with you, I am just curious how you expect game developers to make money.

Oh gee, I dunno. Maybe how they did it before DLC was common (and consequently when the industry was at its peak financially), by making a quality game with tons of stuff already included and selling it for a fixed price.

Honestly a big part of the problem recently is the fact that a lot of game companies are starting to fail or lose money, so they have to find ways to make money. The argument to me should not be whether or not there is DLC but whether or not there is quality content. Both in the game and in the DLC. I have never felt ripped off by a Bungie game, they tend to have enough content to make me feel my $60 was worth it. Also there are several examples of games that have had worthwhile DLC (read the rest of this thread for examples). I am not under the impression whatsoever that Bungie is holding back on content for Destiny to put it in DLC. Just like what Ken Levine says about DLC for Bioshock Infinite, if they cut content for the game it was because it wasn't good enough. Do game companies need DLC to support their company in between games? Possibly. Does that mean it should (or will) suck? No.

There's a difference between shitty day-one DLC and DLCs that are essentially mini-sequels or short stories that allow designers to play with an engine they've now mastered.

Guess what? Destiny is getting day 1 DLC. Think about that.