Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

That's not even remotely what I said. I was addressing a post that built on your Hawkmoon post to suggest that exotic handcannons in general had been nerfed, and I disagreed. I said that I couldn't comment on Hawkmoon since I can't use it, but that MY experience with exotic handcannons (TLW and Thorn) were that they had NOT been nerfed, and in fact might be buffed.

But hey, thanks for the interpretation!

Re-read the posts. Kermit was the one who misinterpreted my post, and Jackie drew from his generalization.

Was looking for something else, and just noticed this from last week. I don't think I misinterpreted your post because I didn't respond to your post. My response was to ChaosSociety and would have been better had I begun it with "If true ...." I reacted to the idea that Thorn was now weaker, but the truth is, I haven't had the chance to use it myself since the update so I still don't know anything based on my own experience. I reacted to a rumor, and I guess inadvertently gave credence to the rumor.

Your response was in regards to how THEY thought a general change was brought to the class of weapon. Though to be fair, "I think it's a lot of 'the sky is falling' nonsense, personally" is phrased in such a way that it seemed to be referencing my original post, but looking into it, I'm pretty sure you were strictly speaking with regards to how drastically the despair set in between my post, Kermit's, and Jackie's...

Despair is a strong word in my case. If Thorn had been nerfed, I'd describe myself as bemused. I have a few days of owning Thorn and doing better than I have before in Crucible, and BAM, the nerf hits.

The nerf is sad for a few reasons; for example, getting the ten Dead Man's Hand medals for the bounty were guaranteed in two games tops with Hawkmoon, but I don't think I've gotten a single one post-patch. This reminded me of another stealthy change that Bungie made affecting another bounty. The Mythoclast now sucks when trying to get the Overcharge bounty. It used to be the go-to weapon for it, but Bungie changed that, without telling us.

Well for this one small issue: luckily the Hand Cannon bounty (along with the Shotgun and Fusion Rifle crucible bounties) only require getting 15 kills, no sprees.

I'm not trying to be a pedantic ass. I'm just genuinely curious.

- CC

Having had some time to ingest the new heavy ammo changes, I actually think there's more reason to use Machine Guns. The fact that you can't drop a bunch of new rockets to the guy that just blew you up with one means you aren't punishing your team as much for the mistake of dying with 90 bullets in your LMG;

90 bullets is, if I give a conservative estimate of six per kill, 15 kills. You can't even get close to 15 kills with four rockets! If you die with a Machine Gun, you lose much much more. Therefore, it's best to use rockets to instantly kill anybody with an HMG on the opposing team.

Truth rocks even more than it did before.

Meh, that was always the risk. But now when you die, your killer doesn't get more rockets. And I think you're less likely to see Truth, because players won't take a chance switching to it when they have to pick heavy up immediately. If you can avoid the initial outburst, or plan with your team to counter it with a few of your own rockets, having the opportunity to kill 15 enemies is more worth the risk.

So far, I've seen in nearly all the matches I've played since the patch, someone with rockets always hangs back and tries extra hard to stay alive just to mop up any MHG users that somehow survive the initial volley.

Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

That's not even remotely what I said. I was addressing a post that built on your Hawkmoon post to suggest that exotic handcannons in general had been nerfed, and I disagreed. I said that I couldn't comment on Hawkmoon since I can't use it, but that MY experience with exotic handcannons (TLW and Thorn) were that they had NOT been nerfed, and in fact might be buffed.

But hey, thanks for the interpretation!

Re-read the posts. Kermit was the one who misinterpreted my post, and Jackie drew from his generalization. Your response was in regards to how THEY thought a general change was brought to the class of weapon. Though to be fair, "I think it's a lot of 'the sky is falling' nonsense, personally" is phrased in such a way that it seemed to be referencing my original post, but looking into it, I'm pretty sure you were strictly speaking with regards to how drastically the despair set in between my post, Kermit's, and Jackie's...

Sorry about that.

Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

That's not even remotely what I said. I was addressing a post that built on your Hawkmoon post to suggest that exotic handcannons in general had been nerfed, and I disagreed. I said that I couldn't comment on Hawkmoon since I can't use it, but that MY experience with exotic handcannons (TLW and Thorn) were that they had NOT been nerfed, and in fact might be buffed.

But hey, thanks for the interpretation!

You implied that my post was talking about exotic hand cannons (and you clearly still think that). I never said that (and in fact, highlighted how much better TLW was going to be in a different, earlier post), my post was strictly talking about my experience with Hawkmoon post-patch.

Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

That's not even remotely what I said. I was addressing a post that built on your Hawkmoon post to suggest that exotic handcannons in general had been nerfed, and I disagreed. I said that I couldn't comment on Hawkmoon since I can't use it, but that MY experience with exotic handcannons (TLW and Thorn) were that they had NOT been nerfed, and in fact might be buffed.

But hey, thanks for the interpretation!

This is what the fuss was about.

This is pure adult content, my friend...

The biggest tragedy is when the poor Xbox plebs get Hawkmoon, they won't understand. They'll scratch their heads, wonder what all the fuss was about, and Vault it. They'll never understand...

This is what the fuss was about.

Perhaps you became overly reliant on a game breaking gun and now have to play according to the same rules as everyone else?

Funny thing about that is that I don't even use it that much. Handcannons are number 7 in my list of top Crucible weapons. Even when you look at my Hunter, which I thought always used Hawkmoon, It's fourth on my list of PvP kills, with Auto rifles (namely Monte Carlo) above it on the list.

But like I said, I adapt quickly; even with a gimped Hawkmoon, I'm not exactly a defenseless Butt Monkey (Munky):

(Note how the guy at :35 takes four hits to bring down at close range.)

The nerf is sad for a few reasons; for example, getting the ten Dead Man's Hand medals for the bounty were guaranteed in two games tops with Hawkmoon, but I don't think I've gotten a single one post-patch. This reminded me of another stealthy change that Bungie made affecting another bounty. The Mythoclast now sucks when trying to get the Overcharge bounty. It used to be the go-to weapon for it, but Bungie changed that, without telling us.

Which is a major point of my original post that was overlooked. Hawkmoon was just my personal observation of the real issue (that has been addressed in another post), Bungie isn't upfront about the changes they're making to the game. They give us basic patch info, but it's clearly only a piece of the bigger picture. That's a problem, and one that needs to be addressed.

Another thing I found kind of funny: Claude is like "Well, I don't play on the console that even has Hawkmoon, but Thorn's working fine so clearly nothing's changed with Hawkmoon!" That uh... That's kind of random... But yeah, I can confirm Thorn is just as (if not more) lethal as ever. Use your Thorn, kids!

The biggest tragedy is when the poor Xbox plebs get Hawkmoon, they won't understand. They'll scratch their heads, wonder what all the fuss was about, and Vault it. They'll never understand...

Having had some time to ingest the new heavy ammo changes, I actually think there's more reason to use Machine Guns. The fact that you can't drop a bunch of new rockets to the guy that just blew you up with one means you aren't punishing your team as much for the mistake of dying with 90 bullets in your LMG;

90 bullets is, if I give a conservative estimate of six per kill, 15 kills. You can't even get close to 15 kills with four rockets! If you die with a Machine Gun, you lose much much more. Therefore, it's best to use rockets to instantly kill anybody with an HMG on the opposing team.

Truth rocks even more than it did before.

Meh, that was always the risk. But now when you die, your killer doesn't get more rockets. And I think you're less likely to see Truth, because players won't take a chance switching to it when they have to pick heavy up immediately. If you can avoid the initial outburst, or plan with your team to counter it with a few of your own rockets, having the opportunity to kill 15 enemies is more worth the risk.

Perhaps you became overly reliant on a game breaking gun and now have to play according to the same rules as everyone else?

Breaking the game was the only thing this gun could be called an Exotic for...

Having had some time to ingest the new heavy ammo changes, I actually think there's more reason to use Machine Guns. The fact that you can't drop a bunch of new rockets to the guy that just blew you up with one means you aren't punishing your team as much for the mistake of dying with 90 bullets in your LMG;

90 bullets is, if I give a conservative estimate of six per kill, 15 kills. You can't even get close to 15 kills with four rockets! If you die with a Machine Gun, you lose much much more. Therefore, it's best to use rockets to instantly kill anybody with an HMG on the opposing team.

Truth rocks even more than it did before.

It was definitely nerfed, intentionally or not.

Just curious - Did you play with Hawkmoon much between the last two patches? I know I didn't because I was experimenting with Red Death and Bad JuJu. I wonder if either we didn't use it enough to notice the nerf or if the new patch actually made the nerf effective.

- CC

I used it extensively before, during, and after the previous nerf. Since I got it, it's been pretty much my Hunter's exclusive primary.

The patch before this one removed the ability to counter-snipe with it (it was a two-shot at long range). Remember how I was lamenting that I can't seem to break 49 kills in a game?

With the previous patch, I was still doing pretty great with it, and the two-shot was very reliable.

Past few days I've barely been breaking even in games...

I did as well (or as poorly) as I usually do, and my weapons worked within the range they've been working for months.

This has been my experience as well, but perhaps I haven't been using the weapons to their fullest potential. In any case, I had a good time with my brief foray. Really good players killed me more often than I killed them, and I killed others more often than not with my thorn. The only thing that I really noticed was the ammo counters cluttering my screen which was kind of annoying but I'll adapt.

Also, you'll notice the counters only show up when they are close to dropping or you are nearby an ammo crate, so it's not as cluttered as I expected.

You don't have to be close when somebody picks it up, you just need to get it before you die.

I did as well (or as poorly) as I usually do, and my weapons worked within the range they've been working for months.

This has been my experience as well, but perhaps I haven't been using the weapons to their fullest potential. In any case, I had a good time with my brief foray. Really good players killed me more often than I killed them, and I killed others more often than not with my thorn. The only thing that I really noticed was the ammo counters cluttering my screen which was kind of annoying but I'll adapt.

Also, you'll notice the counters only show up when they are close to dropping or you are nearby an ammo crate, so it's not as cluttered as I expected.