I can't imagine a world where Joe voluntarily left Bungie unless things were going very very very badly there. He's been a pillar of the company, a constant proponent of it, and a marvelous storyteller basically since the company was founded. In fact, Joe used to be the go-to guy for interviews because Jason was press-shy. In my very limited interactions with the company members face to face, everyone was great, but Joe was a stand-out amazing person who actually gave me some very solid, very helpful career advice many years ago.

I don't think I'm alone among Bungie fans when I say that I love Joe. He's a great guy and has written some truly fantastic stories for Bungie's games.

And he left about a year before Bungie shipped Destiny. Around the same time that the reddit poster stated there was a "total rewrite" of the game. Around the same time that other writers were brought in to "punch up" the script (and we all know how that turned out). These things probably aren't coincidental (but that's conjecture).

Now, I'm a guy who has worked in the video game industry a fair bit, and for Activision, and I have a sense of the corporate culture there. These aren't bad people. In fact, they all want to make great games. BUT the decisions about how to make a great game all have to be couched in the guise of making more money for the shareholders. In fact (in actual fact), many of the decisions about hiring and firing at Activision have to do with what people think will make the shareholders happy, far more than about what will result in a better product. It's a business, and that's how it makes money. I get it.

That being said, I can easily imagine a world (now we're in conjecture land) where Joe was forced out either directly "we want you, Joe, to resign" or indirectly "we want you, Bungie, to completely rewrite the game 1 year out from launch." Neither of those are amicable departures for any writer who is proud of his work (and Joe should be very proud). Now, only Joe can really say whether he left willingly or not.

Marty's departure was more public, what with the tweets and such, and he's spoken out about it a little bit as well, so I don't feel the need to explain why I think he was forced out as much as I do for Joe.

Regardless - for me, on the outside looking in - these departures look bad. They look very bad. You may not see it, and you may not value my opinions on these things, and that's completely up to you, but I take issue with accusations that I'm simply trying to shit up the internet here. Bungie has entertained me for decades, and I am an avid fan of the company and what they have done in the past. I want the people who gave me so much joy in my life to be happy people. Seeing the strife and discord makes me sad. Seeing the state of Destiny makes me sad. I care very much about these people and their body of work, and I am concerned that Destiny is a step (several steps) down the path of abusive MMO style gameplay at the expense of their fanbase and to the detriment of the company as a brand, and the employees reputations as artists and game builders.

I'm sorry that my post required all of this explanation - I made some gross assumptions about how these two departures appeared to people in the public eye and for that I apologize.

It'd probably be best to just ask Kahzgul what he'd meant as opposed to trying to work it out.

From my reading of what he said, he wasn't stating they were fired as though it was a fact; he said [something] depended on why they left, and that if they were let go it would probably have spooked employees. The if there is a hypothetical, which would make the whole thing hypothetical.

It's clear to me that the premise is that they were both let go. The conjecture is about the why and the effect.

This is the kind of shit I hate about the internet.

I find it useless, unproductive speculation, but it's a free country.

Here's some hilarity: After spending all week on my Titan alt to get him the IB boots and gloves, and then earn these weapons (and farm glimmer for them), my buddy ran my warlock alt through Crota's End last night up to Ir'Yut. And my warlock got boots and gloves. All week vs. 1 hour.

Yeah, my original reason for playing Iron Banner was to get the boots my Titan needed to reach 32. After putting in a ton of time Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, I ran the raid Friday night and whaddayouknow... Boots! But by that point, I figured I'd put enough time into IB I might as well see it all the way through, and I'm glad I did. Gheleon's Demise is indeed a beast, and I'm happy to get away from the Crota armor. Plus, it's been fun overall.

I hit rank 5 last night and immediately bought the Scout Rifle. So far, I love it. I prefer the feel of a slower-firing-but-harder-hitting rifle, and this fits the bill quite nicely. The reload is hella-slow, but that's immediately negated by the "outlaw" perk. I also got Timur's Lash and re-rolled it until I landed on the Return to Sender and Killing Frenzy perks (seemed like a good combo for that gun).

I've actually decided to go all-in and deck my Titan out as my "Iron Banner" character. Bought the gloves and Titan-skirt, and I'm about half-way through grinding the glimmer I need for the boots. Tonight I'm going to finish that off, then grind for the shotgun and maybe even another pair of gloves, if I can stay awake long enough.

Bit of a tangent, but with my Titan being my Iron Banner character, I've decided to turn my Warlock into my Vault of Glass character. Full VoG armor (I'm sick of the stupid Crota gear... Higher level be damned!), full arsenal of VoG weapons, plus a few other essentials (Ice Breaker, Fang of Ir Yut, etc).

Kinda fun letting go of the "must be level 32" mindset and just equipping my characters however I want to.

Gheleon's Demise is FANTASTIC. The best scout rifle in the game, imo, and it comes with what I consider to be perfect perks (I like AP rounds, while my friend insists on rerolling for field scout - which I don't think is needed due to Outlaw, but I digress).

Also rerolled a Timur's Lash that dropped to Zen Moment, Field Scout, and Feeding Frenzy.
And I rerolled the shotgun (someone's Lie) to Field Choke, Shot Package, and Hammer Forged (also Grenadier, but that's not the important bit here at all). Maximum range + shot package = the new Found Verdict.

Here's some hilarity: After spending all week on my Titan alt to get him the IB boots and gloves, and then earn these weapons (and farm glimmer for them), my buddy ran my warlock alt through Crota's End last night up to Ir'Yut. And my warlock got boots and gloves. All week vs. 1 hour.

Regardless, now I need to farm a crapton of plasteel plating and hadronic essence. I guess I'll just be running the strike playlists? At least that's fun, unlike this Exclusion Zone nonsense.

My personal suspicion is that Destiny's plot and narrative (the thing Joe had been working so hard on over the past 5+ years) was thrown out, so Joe rage-quit. I'm basing this on nothing besides the timing of his departure, and the final product we got with Destiny, so I could of course be way off. But if I had year of my work thrown aside in favor if, well, nothing... I'd certainly find it difficult to stay :-/

This is what I felt about it also. It's not a firing, per se, but telling someone you're tossing aside years of their hard work for the garbage that is in the current game is the definition of a slap in the face. A punch, really. Add to it the fact that Joe's fantastic storytelling has ushered many Bungie games to glory in the past, and it really becomes all the more disturbing. You don't slaughter the golden goose, and you don't throw out Joe Staten's work. Hell, anyone who's worked on AAA titles knows that if you're throwing out the writing 1 year prior to delivery, your product is royally screwed.

Of course, people can read into stuff whatever they want...

They can, but I think it's crap to say he was fired as if that were a fact, and then say that only the reason he was fired was conjecture.

My personal suspicion is that Destiny's plot and narrative (the thing Joe had been working so hard on over the past 5+ years) was thrown out, so Joe rage-quit. I'm basing this on nothing besides the timing of his departure, and the final product we got with Destiny, so I could of course be way off. But if I had year of my work thrown aside in favor if, well, nothing... I'd certainly find it difficult to stay :-/

I've actually decided to go all-in and deck my Titan out as my "Iron Banner" character. Bought the gloves and Titan-skirt, and I'm about half-way through grinding the glimmer I need for the boots. Tonight I'm going to finish that off, then grind for the shotgun and maybe even another pair of gloves, if I can stay awake long enough.

Bit of a tangent, but with my Titan being my Iron Banner character, I've decided to turn my Warlock into my Vault of Glass character. Full VoG armor (I'm sick of the stupid Crota gear... Higher level be damned!), full arsenal of VoG weapons, plus a few other essentials (Ice Breaker, Fang of Ir Yut, etc).

Kinda fun letting go of the "must be level 32" mindset and just equipping my characters however I want to.

Of course, people can read into stuff whatever they want...

They can, but I think it's crap to say he was fired as if that were a fact, and then say that only the reason he was fired was conjecture.

Sounds more like a 'pull' out rather than a 'push.'

That is how I interpreted the story when it first came out. The way it was stated here sounded like he was definitively fired.

Of course, people can read into stuff whatever they want...

This was my first suspicion.