Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \

So this is down, a lot, to your playstyle.

I've had Icebreaker for a while, and I use it sometimes - but I'd MUCH rather use, say, LDR, because it's not Exotic. And because I pretty infrequently find myself completely out of Special Ammo (the one place that IB really shines).

::shrug::

Even if I COULD use IB all the time, I probably wouldn't - because when you run out of ammo, shields on your enemies regen faster than your ammo does. With LDR, I can reload 4 new shots and keep taking down that Wizard's health, but with IB, if he's not dead when I hit zero, I have to start all over again.

This is why I never use Icebreaker anymore, EXCEPT for the templar and atheon, since their vulnerability windows line up nice with the icebreaker. By the time you empty your magazine, they aren't vulnerable anymore, and by the time they become vulnerable again, your magazine has refilled.

I use LDR when I don't think I can chain headshots, Black Hammer when I can, and icebreaker pretty much only in VoG.

LDR is a great rifle. I've got 1 on each character; it's my go-to when I'm not using Icebreaker. I'd probably use Black Hammer quite a bit as well, I just don't have one yet.

I've actually started using Icebreaker through the entire Crota raid recently. I've stuck with Gjallarhorn in the past, but I'm finding Icebreaker to be more consistently useful.

Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \

So this is down, a lot, to your playstyle.

I've had Icebreaker for a while, and I use it sometimes - but I'd MUCH rather use, say, LDR, because it's not Exotic. And because I pretty infrequently find myself completely out of Special Ammo (the one place that IB really shines).

::shrug::

Even if I COULD use IB all the time, I probably wouldn't - because when you run out of ammo, shields on your enemies regen faster than your ammo does. With LDR, I can reload 4 new shots and keep taking down that Wizard's health, but with IB, if he's not dead when I hit zero, I have to start all over again.

This is why I never use Icebreaker anymore, EXCEPT for the templar and atheon, since their vulnerability windows line up nice with the icebreaker. By the time you empty your magazine, they aren't vulnerable anymore, and by the time they become vulnerable again, your magazine has refilled.

I use LDR when I don't think I can chain headshots, Black Hammer when I can, and icebreaker pretty much only in VoG.

And now I have Praedyth's Revenge; too bad I don't have a solar Boss.

Did that archetype get an updated counterpart with The Dark Below?

I just hate hate hate using that thing.

Firing Rate is king for me, I've noticed.

Icebreaker's rate of fire is great, as long as you don't smash into the ammo threshold.

If your main goal in life is to fire off 20 shots in quick succession, it's crap, but that's a small price to pay for a lot of punch and infinite ammo.

I just hate hate hate using that thing.

Firing Rate is king for me, I've noticed.

Icebreaker's firing rate is actually fine - the problem is that when you get down to 0, the regen rate is MUCH slower than the firing rate. :)

As long as you don't need more than six bullets at once, it's awesome. ;)

Firing Rate is king for me, I've noticed.

Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \

So this is down, a lot, to your playstyle.

I've had Icebreaker for a while, and I use it sometimes - but I'd MUCH rather use, say, LDR, because it's not Exotic. And because I pretty infrequently find myself completely out of Special Ammo (the one place that IB really shines).

::shrug::

Even if I COULD use IB all the time, I probably wouldn't - because when you run out of ammo, shields on your enemies regen faster than your ammo does. With LDR, I can reload 4 new shots and keep taking down that Wizard's health, but with IB, if he's not dead when I hit zero, I have to start all over again.

That totally makes sense. As I said in one of my posts earlier in the thread, my complaints with exotics apply almost exclusively to the PvE side of things. I think the work out well in PvP. :)

Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \

So this is down, a lot, to your playstyle.

I've had Icebreaker for a while, and I use it sometimes - but I'd MUCH rather use, say, LDR, because it's not Exotic. And because I pretty infrequently find myself completely out of Special Ammo (the one place that IB really shines).

::shrug::

Even if I COULD use IB all the time, I probably wouldn't - because when you run out of ammo, shields on your enemies regen faster than your ammo does. With LDR, I can reload 4 new shots and keep taking down that Wizard's health, but with IB, if he's not dead when I hit zero, I have to start all over again.

Off topic, I wish I had a range of specific guns for specific maps. As it is I just equip whatever Exotic seems like a good idea at the time and hope for the best. It works, by and large, but it'd be nice if I had a plan.

I usually just start equipping whatever I die to the most on a given map ;)

The problem with that is when Exotics are simply unusual they get called the worst guns in the game. See: Bad Juju, Thorn, Super Good Advice, etc pre-buff...

They get called that because not all exotics follow the same MO. If 95% exotics are fairly standard weapons with an interesting or niche perk, but the other 5% are unstoppable tools of destruction, than the 95% look pretty useless by comparison :)

Cody and Korny both mentioned Truth earlier in the thread: that weapon is the perfect example of the problem with exotics in PvE. Here's an exotic 331 rocket launcher that's fully maxed out, and yet it does about half the damage to a praetorian that Gjallarhorn does, even though it's got void damage. That's an extreme example, but I feel it holds true across all the exotics: most of them are drastically outclassed by IB and GH.

The purple damage only applies to the shield- past that damage is damage. \

That's exactly my point: An exotic void rocket launcher against a void shield and it's almost half as effective as a Gjallarhorn.\

I think what you are seeing is the difference in the type of launcher. Ghorn is the only weapon I know of that has wolf pack, so those cluster missiles do a lot of extra damage on TOP of the core rocket. Truth is a one shot, traditional warhead, but the tracking on that one is WAY better than Ghorns. Truth in PvP is a beast. Ghorn in PvP will get the job done, but what a mess! ;) \

Yeah, PvP is a different ball game completely. Like Cody was saying, I find the usefulness of exotics in PvP to be much more spread out. PvE is where I think the problem is :)

Some of the launchers also have cluster bombs, which I find are on par with Ghorn, depending on the target. Each of those little cluster bombs stacks damage too, like the wolf pack rounds. They just don't home in. \

The cluster bombs are cool... Hunger of Crota is my backup rocket launcher. But it doesn't do nearly the damage G-horn does, because as you said the clusters don't seek the target. Most of the time they just fall to the ground, hitting nothing. They're great for taking out packs of low level enemies, though.

Now, it's worth mentioning that I do have 3 fatebringers, 2 Fangs of Ir Yut, and a handful of other exceptional legendary primary weapons. If I didn't have so many great non-exotic primaries, I might be motivated to us my Mythoclast or Thorn more often.\

And that is another difference between you guys- REMEMBER, you are HIGH LEVEL players. You guys raid regularly, and thus have better toys than at least 3/4ths of the population. I by contrast raid infrequently, and have very little raid weapons. Tons of armor though. The only elemental primary I have is Atheon's Epilogue! \

Hopefully Bungie will release another update on the "who's using what" popular weapon report again. That was an eye opener. I too, assumed that a lot of people would gravitate towards the same weapons, but the vast majority of players don't have them! \

You guys, the high-rollers are -not- a good population sample in terms of finding averages. See, you guys have a 1st world Destiny problem of "How do I hold all these exotics??" when Joe xbox 360 is like "I finally have enough coins to buy an exotic because I can't get them any other way!" hahahaha

Completely agree. I would just add that while this is a problem a lot of players don't face yet, it is a problem all players will inevitably come up against, some just sooner than others. You don't need to have every exotic and legendary... I got Icebreaker very early on. I had nowhere near the arsenal then that I have now, but the same problem was present. I instantly stopped using the 2 other exotics I had. As time went on, I kept hoping my exotic collection would end up being more useful, but it never did. \

Where my opinion differs from Cody on this is in our thoughts on a potential solution. I would rather the other exotic weapons get buffed... big time. Bring them all up to the level of Icebreaker and Gjallarhorn. Exotics are so damn hard to get, yet most of the aren't worth the time and effort. They really aren't. I think each and every exotic should stand head-and-shoulders above any legendary in the game (at least in terms of PvE). I'd like all exotics to look, sound, and perform like super weapons.\

I cannot count the number of exotics I use in PvP on one hand. There are too many specific loadouts for specific maps.

I'm with iconic on this one, I use different loadouts per map. And in truth, most of my IB play has been *gasp* sans exotics.

I don't have an Auto Rifle exotic, so I'm running a legendary there for the bounties, but occasionally I use Thorn or TLW.

Found Verdict is my go to special, unless it's a sniper friendly map and then I use Patience and Time.

And I've been using a Harm's Way for my heavy.

I understand and even agree that exotics should be 'exotic' in their uniqueness and quirkiness, but I also like that they force you to choose and consider loadout. Like... Lucky Raspberry or Knucklehead Radar. Seeing everyone is great, but so is spawning with 'nades!

But if everything you are wearing and using is exotic (or can be) then what is the point in Legendary? Just seems like gear-inflation to me. All those normals, uncommons and rares already just get broken down.

I just explained that. Exotics won't be any better than legendaries. They will simply offer unique perks that may or may not be of use to you in the activity you are playing, or ever. Exotic will not mean BETTER, it will mean UNUSUAL. If anything, exotics should not have the best stats in the game, but instead rely on their talents to be useful. For raw damage, a legendary should win.

The 'not actually overpowered' statement could be taken as 'when balanced by the fact you can only have one equipped'

This is a good point and probably true, however I contend that Destiny 2 would be better off if they dropped the last part of that statement, and simply designed exotics to not be overpowered period, but rather weird and unusual in playstyle changing ways. Like how exotics play out now in crucible.

THEN remove the one exotic limit.

But if everything you are wearing and using is exotic (or can be) then what is the point in Legendary? Just seems like gear-inflation to me. All those normals, uncommons and rares already just get broken down.

Though I don't disgree with your point that exotics not being overpowered would probably be better for the game.

Literally one vague example of yours was not a raid weapon. And I've never seen you use a scout rifle with Firefly over a raid weapon...

You don't play with me much anymore n PvE.

It's not about Gjallarhorn. It's about what weapon is worth giving up Gjallarhorn for, and depending on the situation, there are tons. That's why we should only be able to equip one.

Yes exactly. You are right. But I am saying I don't like the way that system ultimately works.

So in your brain, a game where everyone can have fully exotic slots, the game would have MORE sandbox variety?

If Destiny 2 had more careful exotic weapon design, then yes. Again, the key is living up to Bungie's "Feels overpowered but isn't". In Destiny 1 the useful exotics ARE overpowered compared to other guns.

The 'not actually overpowered' statement could be taken as 'when balanced by the fact you can only have one equipped'

This is a good point and probably true, however I contend that Destiny 2 would be better off if they dropped the last part of that statement, and simply designed exotics to not be overpowered period, but rather weird and unusual in playstyle changing ways. Like how exotics play out now in crucible.

THEN remove the one exotic limit.

I do swap gear around mid-mission as well... I just swap between icebreaker and Gjallarhorn :)

I should say, if I'm doing a daily mission with friends, or a low-level mission for a bounty, I'll use other guns just to good around and mix things up. But the majority of my time with Destiny is spent playing raids, Nightfalls, and level 30 heroic missions. In those challenging situations, I'm going to use the most effective gear I have. 99% of the time, that's Icebreaker or Gjallarhorn.

I'm at the point myself where I have all the armor to hit 32, but I don't really see the point. I hop on once or twice a week to do the weekly + nightfall and raid if I'm lucky. Everything else is just too repetitive for me at this point, and I don't do PvP. My vault is pretty empty for weapons. I carry everything I like to use with me, which is a modest collection.

Cody and Korny both mentioned Truth earlier in the thread: that weapon is the perfect example of the problem with exotics in PvE. Here's an exotic 331 rocket launcher that's fully maxed out, and yet it does about half the damage to a praetorian that Gjallarhorn does, even though it's got void damage. That's an extreme example, but I feel it holds true across all the exotics: most of them are drastically outclassed by IB and GH.

The purple damage only applies to the shield- past that damage is damage. I think what you are seeing is the difference in the type of launcher. Ghorn is the only weapon I know of that has wolf pack, so those cluster missiles do a lot of extra damage on TOP of the core rocket. Truth is a one shot, traditional warhead, but the tracking on that one is WAY better than Ghorns. Truth in PvP is a beast. Ghorn in PvP will get the job done, but what a mess! ;) Some of the launchers also have cluster bombs, which I find are on par with Ghorn, depending on the target. Each of those little cluster bombs stacks damage too, like the wolf pack rounds. They just don't home in.

Now, it's worth mentioning that I do have 3 fatebringers, 2 Fangs of Ir Yut, and a handful of other exceptional legendary primary weapons. If I didn't have so many great non-exotic primaries, I might be motivated to us my Mythoclast or Thorn more often.

And that is another difference between you guys- REMEMBER, you are HIGH LEVEL players. You guys raid regularly, and thus have better toys than at least 3/4ths of the population. I by contrast raid infrequently, and have very little raid weapons. Tons of armor though. The only elemental primary I have is Atheon's Epilogue!

Hopefully Bungie will release another update on the "who's using what" popular weapon report again. That was an eye opener. I too, assumed that a lot of people would gravitate towards the same weapons, but the vast majority of players don't have them!

You guys, the high-rollers are -not- a good population sample in terms of finding averages. See, you guys have a 1st world Destiny problem of "How do I hold all these exotics??" when Joe xbox 360 is like "I finally have enough coins to buy an exotic because I can't get them any other way!" hahahaha