Because they are stuck.

You can write lengthy, informative opinions on video game theory but your complete reasoning behind why Destiny can't be fixed is "because they are stuck?" That's seriously the best you can do? Ok... Ahem:

Why are they stuck?
Why can't they fix things in a sequel, exactly?

What prevents Bungie from eliminating or smoothing out the things you don't like? Is the Investment System, as it currently exists, in their contract? Do they simply hate players? Maybe it's an endless loop of they won't fix the investment system because they're stuck and they're stuck... because they won't fix the investment system?

I can only imagine the feeling of having this wonderful story you had planned turn out like shit, but then be unable to fix that because you signed a ten year deal and every game has to be the same.

Oh. It has to be the same because the DLC has to hook in, and because your characters and items have been confirmed to carry over from Destiny to Destiny 2. It has to remain the same basic type of game to continue the business model.

I don't understand. Why, exactly, can't characters and gear transfer over to a game without an investment system? Or more realistically, to a Destiny 2 that has a better, reworked system? And what, exactly, does the business model of a $60 game + multiple paid DLC packs have to do with Destiny's un-monetized, micropayment-less Investment System? It seems to me that you're being your usual unimaginative self coming up with only one possible worst case scenario.

Frankly, it is ridiculous to think that the way Destiny 1 works today is the way Destiny X is going to work nearly a decade from now...

I wasn't saying that gated progressions is something that I want to see in the game.

[snip]
Hell, they committed when I KNEW it was bad. And If I could tell, without having played a second of the game, then surely someone at Bungie thought "Gee, making your level progression depend on RNG is not such a good idea.

You can use RNG to control progress because you can set targets of what proportion of your population attain a given level then adjust probabilities accordingly. A small proportion of players will do amazingly well and that will be an encouragement and a goad to get other players sinking time into the game.

Why do you need to control progression? That's the bullshit I'm talking about. I should control the progression. My ability to play and master the game. Nothing more. And when I master it and conquer everything, then yahoo. So what? All the bad parts of the game are there precisely because the idea of someone beating the game in a few days is the end of the world. All you are doing is wasting the player's time. I cannot get that this isn't self evident:

Don't time gate anything. Don't place level or experience gates on anything. The only gate should be my understanding of the game. Really simple rule, and breaking it makes players frustrated and it makes your game suck.

Bungie still gets to gate progress but nobody is obliged to put in more hours than they want.

Bungie's job is to throw us into a world with challenges and things to see, and LET US DO THEM AT OUR OWN PACE AND IN OUR OWN WAY. Gated and padded progress is what makes MMOs so bad, and such a waste of time.

Why can't they fix things in a sequel, exactly? The parts actively carrying forward between games are the most solid parts of Destiny. The movement modes, the powers, the gunplay, your character builds... all those are parts that don't need fixing. Things like the poorly exposed and executed story and the sameness of missions mechanics are parts that Bungie will naturally get another shot at simply because a new game means new story and new missions. Then, with all the feedback Bungie has received, it seems silly to think that they wouldn't also look over the parts you despise so much. The Investment System. The Grind. The randomness. Surely all those will see some changes.

Here are fixes that are needed:

1. Decouple level progression from armor.
2. Eliminate weapon and armor upgrading in its current form.
3. Eliminate RNG based progression (1 should help with that).
4. Provide a fixed path towards acquiring all items.

Do you think there's any chance this will happen? I give it zero percent. Because they are stuck.

I can only imagine the feeling of having this wonderful story you had planned turn out like shit, but then be unable to fix that because you signed a ten year deal and every game has to be the same.

Oh. It has to be the same because the DLC has to hook in, and because your characters and items have been confirmed to carry over from Destiny to Destiny 2. It has to remain the same basic type of game to continue the business model.

[snip]
Hell, they committed when I KNEW it was bad. And If I could tell, without having played a second of the game, then surely someone at Bungie thought "Gee, making your level progression depend on RNG is not such a good idea.

You can use RNG to control progress because you can set targets of what proportion of your population attain a given level then adjust probabilities accordingly. A small proportion of players will do amazingly well and that will be an encouragement and a goad to get other players sinking time into the game.

Of course, given that Destiny's state is held on servers and it is always online... Bungie could have just set progress targets over time, set milestones... then just have the server do a DateTime call every time the game does a GET and then look up the expected progress for that date and award progress to the character accordingly.

You could say, "3 months in a character should be level 30, with 7 exotics, 13 legendaries and x amount of upgrade units to spend on those things".

Let people work to reach level 20 but post 20 let progress be dependant on time since game first played.

Then you make the game amazingly fun to play so that anyone who hasn't played in x weeks has missed out on oodles of fun.

So a level 20 who has been playing since launch has had four months of fun plus level 30 progression.

A level 20+ player who missed 6 weeks during that time has level 30 progress but has missed out on a whole 6 weeks of the best fun you can have in a game. You would feel sorry for the guy who missed out on those 6 weeks.

Bungie still gets to gate progress but nobody is obliged to put in more hours than they want.

Here's a newsflash: The game isn't going to fundamentally change. And I guess you've got ~10 years to remind us of its crappy core.

And THAT'S the shame. They have committed to a ten year plan, where our characters and all that move from game to game, all before the first release. With a normal sequel, you can shun what doesn't work and fix your shit, but not with Destiny. It feels like Bungie is already committed, which sucks because they committed even before they knew it was good.

Why can't they fix things in a sequel, exactly? The parts actively carrying forward between games are the most solid parts of Destiny. The movement modes, the powers, the gunplay, your character builds... all those are parts that don't need fixing. Things like the poorly exposed and executed story and the sameness of missions mechanics are parts that Bungie will naturally get another shot at simply because a new game means new story and new missions. Then, with all the feedback Bungie has received, it seems silly to think that they wouldn't also look over the parts you despise so much. The Investment System. The Grind. The randomness. Surely all those will see some changes.

Will Destiny 2 lack all traces of an Investment System and be 100% Cody Miller approved? No. But Destiny's strong core combined with more diverse missions, stronger story and cutscene elements, and an investment system that flows more naturally into what a player wants to do (mainly by eliminating that level 20-28 content gap) would, in my opinion, make Destiny's sequels into excellent, Halo level games. Heck, perhaps some of those changes will come to the game we already have!

I can only imagine the feeling of having this wonderful story you had planned turn out like shit, but then be unable to fix that because you signed a ten year deal and every game has to be the same.

Here's a newsflash: The game isn't going to fundamentally change. And I guess you've got ~10 years to remind us of its crappy core.

And THAT'S the shame. They have committed to a ten year plan, where our characters and all that move from game to game, all before the first release. With a normal sequel, you can shun what doesn't work and fix your shit, but not with Destiny. It feels like Bungie is already committed, which sucks because they committed even before they knew it was good.

Hell, they committed when I KNEW it was bad. And If I could tell, without having played a second of the game, then surely someone at Bungie thought "Gee, making your level progression depend on RNG is not such a good idea. Gee, making people play the same shit over and over isn't such a good idea. Gee, maybe just having slayer gametypes is not such a good idea. Gee, maybe making people re-level their exotics is not such a good idea. Gee, maybe our story is shit. Gee, maybe we are wasting tons of money and talented voice actors by making them NPCs nobody listens to and not actual characters."

"Gee, maybe despite that we should still commit to ten years of this anyway". Fuck that. Each sequel needs to be a clean break to fix what doesn't work. MMO Destiny doesn't work. RPG Destiny would be fantastic. I can only imagine the feeling of having this wonderful story you had planned turn out like shit, but then be unable to fix that because you signed a ten year deal and every game has to be the same.

Bungie has made some bad decisions, and I want them to feel bad. Despite your wonderful artists, musicians, programers, and great game feel, Destiny fucking sucks. It fucking sucks because you didn't do the most basic work of not including bullshit in your game. You don't have my respect as developers anymore because you don't respect the player or their time. In fact it's WORSE because there's so much good in there, but you didn't bring that out properly.

The Last of Us is probably my favorite game, but it has the crappiest co-op ever (read: none). Destiny could improve for sure, but I can appreciate its strengths, and not insist that it measure up to every other game that is fundamentally different.

I insist that Destiny measure up to basic tenets of fun. In many cases it simply does not.

You don't find many of the activities fun. I think we all know that. I can relate. Crucible isn't my favorite, therefore, I play it only when I really feel like it. Other activities in Destiny have provided some of the most fun I've ever had in a video game. We have choices. My question is, how many times and how many ways are you going to tell us that Destiny is fundamentally flawed game? I think we got it. That's what you believe. Message received. MMOs suck as genre. Check.

Here's a newsflash: The game isn't going to fundamentally change. I think they can make things a lot better from a narrative perspective, but it's going to be about getting new stuff with which you can kill enemies. We both want it to be about more, but even if it becomes more, the core will still be the same. And I guess you've got ~10 years to remind us of its crappy core.

The Last of Us is probably my favorite game, but it has the crappiest co-op ever (read: none). Destiny could improve for sure, but I can appreciate its strengths, and not insist that it measure up to every other game that is fundamentally different.

I insist that Destiny measure up to basic tenets of fun. In many cases it simply does not.

This. That's almost 25% of a standard american work year. Totally useless statistic, but time is not something you get back. If it ain't fun, or enriching your life, don't do it. Personal choice and all, but I tend to take the pragmatic route.

Right, but this isn't how it should go out.

For instance: On finishing the Last of Us I thought "Wow! What an amazing journey, great ending, and wonderful characters. This game was incredible. I finally beat it on survivor, and it felt good. What a wonderful experience". Then I put it down and haven't played since. It leaves you on a high note.

Destiny? It's constant disappointment and burnout. Even finishing the story mode the first time I was filled with not a sense of satisfaction, but a sense of disappointment. On reaching level 20 and being told that was the start of the game, Ifind out that's a lie. Level 20 means the game is over, and it's just gear grinding. Even more disappointment. Rather than be inspired to play more, I nearly quit because grinding for the raid is so bad. And here I am now, just watching Destiny fizzle out. You want to leave the player satisfied or wanting more, not feeling like they've had enough of your bullshit.

Destiny is the exact opposite of how a great game should leave you. Designing a game to never end is a bad idea. MMOs are terrible genres. I may have more hours with Destiny, but games like Wolfenstein New Order and Last of Us were simply better games.

Same thing is happening to Halo: it's like watching it just crawl along weaker and weaker until eventually it'll just run out of strength and die. It should just have crossed the finish line and went out on top.

Nightfall Strike? Shoot all the things.
Daily story mission? Shoot all the things.

Only ever shoot all the things! Crucible? Shoot all the things. Literally. Running around and somehow not running into anyone? Shoot the wall. See some pretty water graphics? Shoot it and see what happens. Your fireteam buddy? Shoot 'em.

Gorgon? Eh... ah, what the hell. Just shoot it.

I read this in Rucks' voice from Bastion. It made me giggle harder than I have any right to.

You must not do any of the Strike playlists :P. The status quo is for everyone to run past any encounter that doesn't have to be completed. It's all about finishing the activity as soon as possible.

Sigh this makes me so sad. I'm happy to kill all the things, and then delay their progress anyway. :P

EAT EVERYTHING ON YOUR PLATE, SOLDIER.

I think RNG has gotten the better of me, with my extra Warlock and narrow focus on potentially high-reward activities like Nightfalls and Raid bosses. This past week I've been playing with a buddy that shoots all the things.

I been telling you this for months dude! Also, I had no idea you weren't shooting all the things. I don't get sick of Destiny because I refuse to run a second character and because I don't let anything live. I gotta give myself more to do than just run through Bungie's whack and time-disrespecting grind, or I'd go crazy (especially since they made getting Radiant materials practically impossible without doing a weekly Raid compared to other forms of materials).

You must not do any of the Strike playlists :P. The status quo is for everyone to run past any encounter that doesn't have to be completed. It's all about finishing the activity as soon as possible.

Nightfall Strike? Shoot all the things.
Daily story mission? Shoot all the things.

Only ever shoot all the things! Crucible? Shoot all the things. Literally. Running around and somehow not running into anyone? Shoot the wall. See some pretty water graphics? Shoot it and see what happens. Your fireteam buddy? Shoot 'em.

Gorgon? Eh... ah, what the hell. Just shoot it.

I started shooting all the things too. It was actually more satisfying than running ahead. I do think I need to follow through and get rid of my extra Warlock. Fewer characters, actually doing the activities I elect to do.

:D

The deed was done this morning.