Not every Destiny player is a wordsmith. Not every Destiny player knows how to design and implement constructive solutions to the game's problems. BUT, every Destiny player knows how he or she feels about the game. Their feedback is just as legitimate as Cody Miller's treatises on game design.

That kind of criticism is not over-the-top when it comes from an honest place, no matter how vehemently you disagree with it. Why should I have to offer a laundry list of things that I would like to see Bungie add to the game? I've done that before, here and elsewhere. They don't implement the feedback. Oh sure, they listen, but what good is that when they don't act on what players are saying? I know it takes time to create a patch (not to mention brand-new content!), but they have already demonstrated a willingness to ignore overwhelmingly negative reception to their proposed "bug fixes".

As for the comments about trolling... that's some tasty bait, Kermit, but I'm not biting. You are welcome to keep trying, though. In fact, I'd like to propose a little game for us to play. Let's see how many times you manage to bring up that time I trolled the forums before I bring it up again.

The problems extend well past Destiny, and really originate from the genre itself: MMORPG. Thankfully Destiny has strong FPS elements to allow for a bunch of fun, but you are right in that it can't be fixed unless Bungie abandons a broken terrible genre. To their credit, this is the only MMO I have ever enjoyed.

Destiny would have been better served as a proper FPS, or as an RPG (perhaps RPG with FPS elements like Deus Ex).

Once I realized this, I knew how to classify Destiny, so I stopped playing it entirely and went back to Diablo 3, because it's a better-executed version of the same grind.

I could maybe have respected Destiny's strengths more as a 'shared world shooter' without the progression system, and a more innovative (or at least less backwards) approach to replay value. The universe could make for a great RPG, as well, but Bungie hasn't had experience in that vein since Pathways.

At a macro level, Destiny is designed specifically to force you to play in the manner prescribed by Bungie, not in the manner you actually want to play it. That is its crucial failing. It cannot be "fixed". It cannot be patched out or obfuscated by special "events" like Queen's Wrath or Iron Banner. It is intrinsic to the game's design philosophy.

Therefore, I can only conclude that the game is broken beyond repair.

Indeed. Yesterday, I spent half an hour trying to get my target-acquiring rocket launcher to miss and do a massive loop-the-loop through the sky to come back around and hit my target. I could not get it to happen once. I did not have any fun and feel robbed of my time.

Good to know people are still experimenting with wasting time in ways besides those prescribed. like the good old days

That fucking word...

"Bitching".

It's almost as bad as "entitled". I guess consumers should just stop talking. We should let the market dictate what we want.

How do you survive on the Internet? Do you want me to post a sticky with a list of words that could possibly offend people and ask people not to use them? You take the part that you dislike from Claude's statements and ignore the overall point of his post, in this example making it look like you are an attacked party. He even says right there that he sees a difference in constructive criticism and calling something broken beyond repair, that statement alone does not preclude customers discussing the issues with the game, but you decide to take offense.

He generally does when someone disagrees with his statements.

I made the same point Claude did and he ignored it and took offense then, too. I've observed this pattern. He makes over-the-top negative statements about Bungie, Destiny, DBO, or the people here at DBO followed by a posture of innocence when he gets a negative reaction. HE'S the paragon of reasonableness--a veritable Brian Lamb of the interwebs. WE'RE the meanies. It's no longer about his words and what he said that started the conversation, it's about Carlos vs. the fanboys or whatever. We've driven him to troll, for goodness' sake. Poor guy.

The problems extend well past Destiny, and really originate from the genre itself: MMORPG. Thankfully Destiny has strong FPS elements to allow for a bunch of fun, but you are right in that it can't be fixed unless Bungie abandons a broken terrible genre. To their credit, this is the only MMO I have ever enjoyed.

Destiny would have been better served as a proper FPS, or as an RPG (perhaps RPG with FPS elements like Deus Ex).

Reminds me of the cracked.com classic:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

That fucking word...

"Bitching".

It's almost as bad as "entitled". I guess consumers should just stop talking. We should let the market dictate what we want.

How do you survive on the Internet? Do you want me to post a sticky with a list of words that could possibly offend you and ask people not to use them? You take the part that you dislike from Claude's statements and ignore the overall point of his post, in this example making it look like you are an attacked party. He even says right there that he sees a difference in constructive criticism and calling something broken beyond repair, that statement alone does not preclude customers discussing the issues with the game, but you decide to take offense.

"Bitching".

It's almost as bad as "entitled". I guess consumers should just stop talking. We should let the market dictate what we want.

At a macro level, Destiny is designed specifically to force you to play in the manner prescribed by Bungie, not in the manner you actually want to play it. That is its crucial failing. It cannot be "fixed". It cannot be patched out or obfuscated by special "events" like Queen's Wrath or Iron Banner. It is intrinsic to the game's design philosophy.

Therefore, I can only conclude that the game is broken beyond repair.

Indeed. Yesterday, I spent half an hour trying to get my target-acquiring rocket launcher to miss and do a massive loop-the-loop through the sky to come back around and hit my target. I could not get it to happen once. I did not have any fun and feel robbed of my time.

Went all the way around through the sky like a point tracing the spinning circumference of a merry-go-round. Hit the ground 20 feet from my original target. Perhaps I'll get one yet, and my time won't be wasted after all!

lol you're reminding me of the player that shot at a Banshee on Valhalla in H3 with the rocket pod and had the rocket loop all the way back and kill them.

Which is basically saying you have a new goal once this one is done. :P

It nearly did. Was much closer to hitting myself than hitting him. Would have been much funnier. I need some video recording infrastructure up in my battle-station for when this inevitably occurs.

At a macro level, Destiny is designed specifically to force you to play in the manner prescribed by Bungie, not in the manner you actually want to play it. That is its crucial failing. It cannot be "fixed". It cannot be patched out or obfuscated by special "events" like Queen's Wrath or Iron Banner. It is intrinsic to the game's design philosophy.

Therefore, I can only conclude that the game is broken beyond repair.

Indeed. Yesterday, I spent half an hour trying to get my target-acquiring rocket launcher to miss and do a massive loop-the-loop through the sky to come back around and hit my target. I could not get it to happen once. I did not have any fun and feel robbed of my time.

Went all the way around through the sky like a point tracing the spinning circumference of a merry-go-round. Hit the ground 20 feet from my original target. Perhaps I'll get one yet, and my time won't be wasted after all!

lol you're reminding me of the player that shot at a Banshee on Valhalla in H3 with the rocket pod and had the rocket loop all the way back and kill them.

Which is basically saying you have a new goal once this one is done. :P

Haha you make a post like that then keep coming back, I couldn't resist. :)

I just see a ton of people in this thread that would be a lot happier and probably make him go away faster if they'd stop feeding him. But oh well, trolls gonna troll and baited peoples gonna be baited.

Ugh I have no idea if or when. Money is an issue until after the first of the year, and we're looking to move back to Cleveland as soon as possible.

Well hey, good luck with all the money and the move! None of that's easy.

Also Civ: Beyond Earth doesn't have a Cryptarch. ;)

No joke! I still wanna play some MCC with you so we can get overshield Gauss Hogging old style in 1080p on H3. :P

Sigh elpolloguapo and I still talk about that game we had together. +77 in the G'hog. UnrealChief leaving the other team's G'hog behind our base while he went AFK was the greatest Halo move he's ever pulled.

We still tied though. CTF. Haha.

At a macro level, Destiny is designed specifically to force you to play in the manner prescribed by Bungie, not in the manner you actually want to play it. That is its crucial failing. It cannot be "fixed". It cannot be patched out or obfuscated by special "events" like Queen's Wrath or Iron Banner. It is intrinsic to the game's design philosophy.

Therefore, I can only conclude that the game is broken beyond repair.

Indeed. Yesterday, I spent half an hour trying to get my target-acquiring rocket launcher to miss and do a massive loop-the-loop through the sky to come back around and hit my target. I could not get it to happen once. I did not have any fun and feel robbed of my time.

Went all the way around through the sky like a point tracing the spinning circumference of a merry-go-round. Hit the ground 20 feet from my original target. Perhaps I'll get one yet, and my time won't be wasted after all!

The game had a few maps, and three game types. Each player had a tank, and could upgrade and equip parts of it. Each upgrade needed 4-5 hours of grinding in game to earn, plus in game currency to buy. After about mid level the upgrades cost more then what you earned unlocking them, forcing longer play time or using real money to buy in game currency. All tanks had real money purchasable shells, that were a consumable, that gave them the firepower 3-4 levels above where they topped out. These shells were basically mandatory in any clan match. Upon death with end game tanks you needed to spend massive amounts of in game currency to repair them in order to use them again.

After about a year, they changed the clan matches so if your tank was destroyed you could not use it till the next day. Often a single clan match would cause the loss of 50% of the tanks on your team in a win, and 100% in a loss. So for multiple matches you needed multiple end tier tanks, each of which required several months of solid grinding or 100$ USD to unlock.

Now with all the above, the Devs constantly fiddled with the internal balance,and some tanks were hung out to dry while others were shifted, removed, repurposed or replaced. Players were sometimes compensated, and other times not. These changes would make a tank go from OP to worthless in a single patch.

In contrast Destiny lets me level a faction to maximum in about three weeks of causal play.

All Destiny needs is a better story in game and some non raid 6 player heavy vehicle game types.

Haha you make a post like that then keep coming back, I couldn't resist. :)

I just see a ton of people in this thread that would be a lot happier and probably make him go away faster if they'd stop feeding him. But oh well, trolls gonna troll and baited peoples gonna be baited.

Ugh I have no idea if or when. Money is an issue until after the first of the year, and we're looking to move back to Cleveland as soon as possible.

Well hey, good luck with all the money and the move! None of that's easy.

Also Civ: Beyond Earth doesn't have a Cryptarch. ;)

No joke! I still wanna play some MCC with you so we can get overshield Gauss Hogging old style in 1080p on H3. :P

I mean he outright at one point admitted the only reason he was posting was to troll the peoples. C'mon man.

Haha you make a post like that then keep coming back, I couldn't resist. :)

Also, my two cents regardless of trolls is that the Atheon teleportation thing should absolutely not have been randomized and is a very narrow and shortsighted change on Bungie's behalf, whether from fan feedback or not.

Also, you getting an Xbox One or no? :P

Ugh I have no idea if or when. Money is an issue until after the first of the year, and we're looking to move back to Cleveland as soon as possible.

Also Civ: Beyond Earth doesn't have a Cryptarch. ;)

I'm not even going to dignify this with a response.

You just did.

I have already made my point, and it's not my problem that you simply don't believe me.

Which is what? You contradict yourself from one post to the next.

This kind of "you're not in the club" mentality is what drove me to troll you guys in the first place.

Absolutely untrue. You're an adult who is responsible for your own behavior.

Therefore, I can only conclude that the game is broken beyond repair.

The purpose of science is to serve mankind. You seem to regard science as some kind of dodge... or hustle. Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist, car15

I provided several reasons why the game's core design philosophy makes it irredeemably broken.

Again with the using of the words you don't seem to understand.

If something is 'irredeemably broken', then there cannot, by definition, be constructive criticism; you can't build on something that cannot be fixed. You come here, you say "I'm offering constructive criticism", then you make statements like the one above.

You're bitching. End of story. Don't call it constructive if you believe the product isn't fixable.

I love you.

...Did that come out awkward? It did didn't it. Darn.

:P