Comparing this to my first pass where we had a dedicated home and away team, it felt a little more chaotic but overall not really a big deal. We wiped more on the prior part with the two relics and the conflux then we did on Atheon.

The only comment from the veteran raiders in the group is that they felt the change was interesting, as now people got to see the whole event rather then just half of it.

Also, I don't need to change gear between the two modes. Zombie Apocalypse works in any situation, and I pretty much only used it and GG on Atheon.

Might be different on hard

It is. Unless you are 26, you can get away with pretty much anything on normal if you know the fights.

Might be different on hard, but Suros Regime was perfect for add control, oracle slaying and Hobgoblin/Supplicant removal. Throw in a Fusion Rifle/Shotgun and you can defend confluxes too. And the Suros is even readily available thanks to Xur.

Your Mileage May Vary though, I guess.

I'm talking specifically about Atheon

I'm done.

Honestly, the patches didnt seem to be an issue for my group. I can see how sitting on the Sniper perches would make life easier, but it really wasnt so bad to fight the Templar as he was. Same goes for the random teleports. We still had designated roles, we just had more than one depending on where we were at the time. It was actually super fun not knowing what to expect.

Shame Destiny's servers seem to be made out of wet paper tonight. So many disconnects.

EDIT: Post on r/destinythegame from someone who claims to be a WoW Raid Designer:

Former raid designer on World of Warcraft here. Bungie's approach to Atheon is different than how we handled live tuning of a boss encounter.

Once raid content has been cleared, any buff to difficulty through tuning or a redesign of mechanics will confuse and frustrate your player base. The players already overcame your challenge, regardless of your original intent. Serious bugs and exploits should be fixed quickly, but difficulty should never go up. As a designer it was your job to get the tuning right and to identify the viable strategies before the content was released. If you failed at accomplishing that, take note, and learn for next time.

That said, random selection for the teleport is objectively less interesting design than the original targeting mechanic. Annoying your customer base to implement a less interesting design seems unlikely to pay off.

That hawkmoon for killing supplicants won't work on oracles so well. Likewise, Atheon's Epilogue won't do so well vs supplicants.

Hawkmoon Primary, Praedyth's Revenge Special.

What am I missing?

Dunno. You talking about level 26, or level 30?

That hawkmoon for killing supplicants won't work on oracles so well. Likewise, Atheon's Epilogue won't do so well vs supplicants.

Hawkmoon Primary, Praedyth's Revenge Special.

What am I missing?

In my opinion, Bungie went for the fix that benefited them before their customers (players) and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Go look at the patch notes again. What are the first things mentioned?

Kick to orbit, kick to login, error handling for critical errors - these are showstoppers. Who cares about glitches at the end of one mission if you can't play anything at all?

I feel you're not only being disingenuous, you're wilfully ignoring the realities of development in favour of some fantasy. If a fix is quick, easy, and ready to be deployed; they deploy it. They won't sit on it to bundle them all up nicely in time for Christmas - that's insanity.

Also, after playing the Raid at least once after the patch, I prefer the random teleports. It means we don't have to scramble to get to the back of the room. It's now just a matter of making sure you are behind some cover during the timestream part so you can deal with the suppression field without additional overhead.

TL;DR - I ain't even mad. Shard off

* - It's also assumed you're not using any Rare (or FFS, lower) weapons. Legendaries or better. Earn your marks/MoLs/strange coins and spend 'em.

So your raid buddies have to learn every role. Whatever. None of them are that complicated. You either have the shield, or you kill Oracles. Home team is at the Venus gate or Mars gate. Done.

People act like Shield is the hardest thing to use, it isn't! It's just the one thing that cannot go wrong ever for the raid to work, but arguably if anyone else stuffs up enough the team is through anyway.

The problem is switching weapons:

1. Portal and Away team have different optimal weapons. Even oracle killers and relic holder are different.
2. With it set, you can choose your loadout and stick with it.
3. With random teleports, you have to go into your menu and switch stuff around. This costs time, and ammo.
4. Portal team in particular has to act very fast upon materializing. Picking up the relic right away will allow the cooldown to end right as vision is starting to cloud. A delay can push that over to past when it goes to black. If nobody knows right away who is picking up the relic, there will be a delay. Oracles have to be killed immediately on hard, you don't have time to dilly ally. Switching weapons aggravates this. That hawkmoon for killing supplicants won't work on oracles so well. Likewise, Atheon's Epilogue won't do so well vs supplicants.

If it weren't for the need to tailor weapons to your role, it would work fine.

It might not be that big a deal, we'll see.

I suppose if you're speedrunning, and every second counts, it might matter that you don't have the OPTIMAL gun for the situation you're in.

I'm pretty sure, though, that you have at least one weapon that will serve ACCEPTABLY in every job. Maybe more than one.

Even I do, and my arsenal's pretty pitiful. ;)

So your raid buddies have to learn every role. Whatever. None of them are that complicated. You either have the shield, or you kill Oracles. Home team is at the Venus gate or Mars gate. Done.

People act like Shield is the hardest thing to use, it isn't! It's just the one thing that cannot go wrong ever for the raid to work, but arguably if anyone else stuffs up enough the team is through anyway.

The problem is switching weapons:

1. Portal and Away team have different optimal weapons. Even oracle killers and relic holder are different.
2. With it set, you can choose your loadout and stick with it.
3. With random teleports, you have to go into your menu and switch stuff around. This costs time, and ammo.
4. Portal team in particular has to act very fast upon materializing. Picking up the relic right away will allow the cooldown to end right as vision is starting to cloud. A delay can push that over to past when it goes to black. If nobody knows right away who is picking up the relic, there will be a delay. Oracles have to be killed immediately on hard, you don't have time to dilly ally. Switching weapons aggravates this. That hawkmoon for killing supplicants won't work on oracles so well. Likewise, Atheon's Epilogue won't do so well vs supplicants.

If it weren't for the need to tailor weapons to your role, it would work fine.

It might not be that big a deal, we'll see.

Now instead of spending time getting into position at -3 seconds, everyone will be able to concentrate on DPS/ad control. It's going to be MORE fun and may even save everyone a warp.

Wow, I had never thought about that aspect of it. I like it!

So your raid buddies have to learn every role. Whatever. None of them are that complicated. You either have the shield, or you kill Oracles. Home team is at the Venus gate or Mars gate. Done.

People act like Shield is the hardest thing to use, it isn't! It's just the one thing that cannot go wrong ever for the raid to work, but arguably if anyone else stuffs up enough the team is through anyway.

Now instead of spending time getting into position at -3 seconds, everyone will be able to concentrate on DPS/ad control. It's going to be MORE fun and may even save everyone a warp.

-Vince

I can tell you with about 90% certainty that Bungie has a team of badass dudes working on fixing the bugs that you mentioned. Taking people away from the Atheon change and putting them on your fixes is not going to speed things up. Some things take longer than others to do, and honestly, we just have to wait for them.