Dunno if anyone has one like this, but I've got reload speed upgrades for having an empty mag *and* killing something with the final round. Plus reload speed upgrade from armor.

Magazine is only 25 rounds, but when everything stacks (and it happens a lot with big mobs) it feels like a bottomless magazine. CoD Slight of Hand but faster.

I like shadow price in PvP, where engagements are quicker, but in PvE it's not really so good…

Do you mean VoG and Nightfall PvE? I agree there. Seems to tear up anywhere else though.

Dunno. The only situation it seems to me an autorifle is best for PvE is when you are low on special or heavy ammo and need to lay into a boss or someone tough.

Now that I read this, turns out we agree. Secondary weapons are basically my primary weapon.

Being a hand cannon guy I had my newly acquired and not yet upgraded HC, The Devil You Know, equipped when I initially encountered detain shields. My secondary was a sniper rifle. Needless to say I was very frustrated with being detained for almost the entire time the Templar's shield was down. I finally swapped out my sniper rifle for the Comedian & was VERY pleased with how much faster I was able to break my (and others) detain shield.

Fusion Rifles are a good second alternative to an auto shotgun when you are detained.

Dunno if anyone has one like this, but I've got reload speed upgrades for having an empty mag *and* killing something with the final round. Plus reload speed upgrade from armor.

Magazine is only 25 rounds, but when everything stacks (and it happens a lot with big mobs) it feels like a bottomless magazine. CoD Slight of Hand but faster.

I like shadow price in PvP, where engagements are quicker, but in PvE it's not really so good…

Do you mean VoG and Nightfall PvE? I agree there. Seems to tear up anywhere else though.

Dunno. The only situation it seems to me an autorifle is best for PvE is when you are low on special or heavy ammo and need to lay into a boss or someone tough.

Dunno if anyone has one like this, but I've got reload speed upgrades for having an empty mag *and* killing something with the final round. Plus reload speed upgrade from armor.

Magazine is only 25 rounds, but when everything stacks (and it happens a lot with big mobs) it feels like a bottomless magazine. CoD Slight of Hand but faster.

I like shadow price in PvP, where engagements are quicker, but in PvE it's not really so good…

Do you mean VoG and Nightfall PvE? I agree there. Seems to tear up anywhere else though.

I find it interesting that the "passive"-seeming upgrades are actually some of the best for PvE. Reload Speed buffs, Field Scout, etc. I wonder if it's possible to triple-stack the three Reload Speed buffs (Empty, Precision Kill and Kill with Final Round).

Yes it is. My Calming has reload speed buff on kill, and on an empty mag. It reloads disgustingly fast if you kill an enemy with the final shot. Like, so fast it looks like the animation glitches out.

Dunno if anyone has one like this, but I've got reload speed upgrades for having an empty mag *and* killing something with the final round. Plus reload speed upgrade from armor.

Magazine is only 25 rounds, but when everything stacks (and it happens a lot with big mobs) it feels like a bottomless magazine. CoD Slight of Hand but faster.

I like shadow price in PvP, where engagements are quicker, but in PvE it's not really so good…

Dunno if anyone has one like this, but I've got reload speed upgrades for having an empty mag *and* killing something with the final round. Plus reload speed upgrade from armor.

I have a similar setup for my Doctor Nope.

72 Round Magazine, Perfect Balance, increased Reload Speed when empty and Increased Reload Speed from precision kills. It's absolutely disgusting for long PvP engagements, though the Precision Kill one is less useful for bosses obviously. Coupled with my Armour's reload speed buff and 999 Reserve Ammo capacity, it's a thing to behold. Course, it does about half as much damage as a Shadow Price, shot for shot, so I need to land more hits to have the same effect.

Haha, my old Hex Caster was similar, but I got tired of wrestling it. Wonderful stuff, no doubt. :)

Honestly? Probably not much. Unless you get super lucky and get similar upgrades on something with comparable Impact *and* a larger clip, I'd say you're running pretty optimally.

Ok, whew, I can stop losing sleep over it. ;)

Dunno if anyone has one like this, but I've got reload speed upgrades for having an empty mag *and* killing something with the final round. Plus reload speed upgrade from armor.

I have a similar setup for my Doctor Nope.

72 Round Magazine, Perfect Balance, increased Reload Speed when empty and Increased Reload Speed from precision kills. It's absolutely disgusting for long PvP engagements, though the Precision Kill one is less useful for bosses obviously. Coupled with my Armour's reload speed buff and 999 Reserve Ammo capacity, it's a thing to behold. Course, it does about half as much damage as a Shadow Price, shot for shot, so I need to land more hits to have the same effect.

I find it interesting that the "passive"-seeming upgrades are actually some of the best for PvE. Reload Speed buffs, Field Scout, etc. I wonder if it's possible to triple-stack the three Reload Speed buffs (Empty, Precision Kill and Kill with Final Round).

So all that said, reading your stuff I wonder if anything else would be a vast improvement.

Honestly? Probably not much. Unless you get super lucky and get similar upgrades on something with comparable Impact *and* a larger clip, I'd say you're running pretty optimally.

Magazine is only 25 rounds, but when everything stacks (and it happens a lot with big mobs) it feels like a bottomless magazine. CoD Slight of Hand but faster.

So all that said, reading your stuff I wonder if anything else would be a vast improvement.

Of course, it's worth noting that DpM isn't the be-all and end-all. Weapons like Handcannons have pretty low DpM (the lowest, in fact) but make up for it with high "burst" damage. They're excellent for taking out trash mobs, or for glass cannon enemies like Psions (and supposedly some of the enemies in the VoG, though I've not played that yet).

The Devil You Know at 300 attack is my primary weapon choice for the Vault of Glass on Hard while I am opening the gate, Defending the confluxes, on portal defense duty during the gatekeeper, or on the outside team on Atheon. You are right in that the burst damage is supremely useful for Mobs, but not so great on things like the oracles or detain shields.

and supposedly some of the enemies in the VoG, though I've not played that yet).

Confirmed. The Devil You Know has been an excellent primary for me.

Also, I think this whole magazine size thing validates my strategy of always taking the field scout upgrade on HMGs. So, thanks for that. :)

How do you time these, by the way? Do you count frames post-recording? Stop-watch and ninja reflexes? Godlike omniscience? ;p

Definitely the latter.

Heh

Of course, it's worth noting that DpM isn't the be-all and end-all. Weapons like Handcannons have pretty low DpM (the lowest, in fact) but make up for it with high "burst" damage. They're excellent for taking out trash mobs, or for glass cannon enemies like Psions (and supposedly some of the enemies in the VoG, though I've not played that yet).

Right, right. DpM pretty much makes more sense over absurd amounts of trash mob or Ultras. Anything in between that and I'd go for either Dmg per Second or Dmg per Shot. Still, it's one hell of a stat to have handy. Gotta go fast in those Nightfall Strikes.

Quite simple, actually, but would take me a while to figure out. :)

Yeah, when it's all written down like that it's not too bad. When I was just staring at Excel cells trying to work out how to make the interact properly... not so simple haha. In the end I wrote it out step by step much like I have there, then converted each section into a bracketed equation.

How do you time these, by the way? Do you count frames post-recording? Stop-watch and ninja reflexes? Godlike omniscience? ;p

Definitely the latter.

I actually tried the stopwatch thing back in the first Week after release before deciding it was far too imprecise. I've been counting frames ever since.

Of course, it's worth noting that DpM isn't the be-all and end-all. Weapons like Handcannons have pretty low DpM (the lowest, in fact) but make up for it with high "burst" damage. They're excellent for taking out trash mobs, or for glass cannon enemies like Psions (and supposedly some of the enemies in the VoG, though I've not played that yet).

How do you time these, by the way? Do you count frames post-recording? Stop-watch and ninja reflexes? Godlike omniscience? ;p

((60/(((Magazine Size-1)/Rate of Fire)+Reload Speed+Pause))*Magazine Size)*Damage per Shot

The pause is the period of time between emptying your magazine and a reload automatically starting.

So to break it down:

# Magazine Size - 1 = The number of shots after the first. This has to do with the way I measure RoF, but essentially boils down to a 10 shot clip only having 9 intervals between shots, with the first shot being instant and lasting for only 1 frame.
# Magazine Size / Rate of Fire = Number of Seconds per Magazine, or Magazine Time (MT)
# MT + Reload Time + Pause Time = Number of seconds to empty a full clip and reload, or Full Cycle Time (FCT)
# 60 / FCT = The number of Full Cycles per minute (CpM)
# CpM * Magazine Size = The number of shots per minute if firing at full speed, taking into account reload time and pause time - Shots per Minute (SpM)
# SpM * Damage per Shot = Damage per Minute, or DpM

Fusion Rifles are slightly more complicated due to the way I record Fusion Rifle RoF - I don't include the charge time of the first shot, and instead take that first charge time as a separate interval that I add later. This is so that RoF is measured consistently across all weapon types, but of course the first shot is not instant in Fusion Rifles, so charge time has to be added separately. Consistent =/= convenient.

((60/(((Magazine Size-1)/Rate of Fire)+Reload Time+Pause Time+Charge Time))*Magazine Size)*Damage

As you can see, the sums are functionally the same, with the only difference being the addition of Charge Time.

It's up right now! I think the link is http://www.bungie.net/en/Profile/254/162230 my Titan has it.

I think I might have missed it? It's currently Ice Breaker your Titan has equipped in the Special slot.