But they're talking about moral rights, not legal rights.

I view property rights as a moral right.

Either way, the point is moot since Lucas no longer owns the rights to the movies, and it looks like Disney has already performed a brand-new OT restoration of their own.

Would be excited if they did a proper re-release of it. Sometimes these buyouts have a silver lining.

As for Lucas, I'd argue that he has ruined the original trilogy for new generations by refusing to provide a proper re-mastered version of it. Those old Laserdisc transfers do not capture the full fidelity of the original filmed image by any stretch of the imagination.

It wouldn't cost much for him to do it, either. That's not speculation, that's deduction based on what we know about how the Special Editions were created.

Either way, the point is moot since Lucas no longer owns the rights to the movies, and it looks like Disney has already performed a brand-new OT restoration of their own.

I agree that I stand against arguing that 'it's their game' for an even simpler reason, which is that this forum exists for us to talk about the game, which includes what we like and don't like. Who the game BELONGS to is irrelevant, it doesn't invalidate anyone's opinion. Just like the George Lucas example, Bungie clearly has the prerogative to make any changes they want, but we're also entitled to dislike those changes.

I think it's different because you actively engage with a game more than other media. The original trilogy is still out there in the form of fine grain separation masters (which rumor has it Disney is going to make available). The original Destiny is not still out there. You can't just not update and play the old one. If you liked sword flying in Halo 2 (if you were a speedrunner for example), you could simply not apply the patch and continue on.

Because a game is something you interact with, the utility is now different. It'd be like Stanley taking away people's hammers and giving them new ones because they don't like what you are doing with them.

It's not, because those hammers are physical objects and we're talking about a digital product sold as a constantly evolving world. I guess the way we can fix your analogy is if Stanley said ahead of time they would replace everyone's hammers as they continue to iterate on their hammer design and then they would take away hammers and replace them as they promised, and people started freaking out and getting angry in spite of Stanley's original intentions.

Do you hear yourself? You sound like a PR drone.

I'm not trying to fire a shot at you, I'm just being honest. You're completely deflecting his argument.

I don't agree with his understanding of ethics or what games should be considered as.

They said they were making a game that after release was going to be constantly molded based off of what players do. If you're someone cares that much about property rights, you should have picked up on that and started campaigning against the game a long time ago.

And as far as my cheeky comment about Lucas, he didn't ruin the original trilogy, he ruined the subsequent releases of it.

I'm not trying to fire a shot at you, I'm just being honest. You're completely deflecting his argument.

I agree that I stand against arguing that 'it's their game' for an even simpler reason, which is that this forum exists for us to talk about the game, which includes what we like and don't like. Who the game BELONGS to is irrelevant, it doesn't invalidate anyone's opinion. Just like the George Lucas example, Bungie clearly has the prerogative to make any changes they want, but we're also entitled to dislike those changes.

I think it's different because you actively engage with a game more than other media. The original trilogy is still out there in the form of fine grain separation masters (which rumor has it Disney is going to make available). The original Destiny is not still out there. You can't just not update and play the old one. If you liked sword flying in Halo 2 (if you were a speedrunner for example), you could simply not apply the patch and continue on.

Because a game is something you interact with, the utility is now different. It'd be like Stanley taking away people's hammers and giving them new ones because they don't like what you are doing with them.

For one simple reason.

They are creating a product that people are paying for. As a consumer, you have the right to expect this product to be a certain thing. Unfortunately, the way game sales work now is that companies treat it as a 'license' to the game, and that you don't have the 'right' to play it if they don't want you do.

That's simply not right. On an ethical level.

There's also a second simple reason.
It's in the field. It's ours. Having the idea be 'It's their game' is what allowed George Lucas to go back and destroy the Original Trilogy.

I agree that I stand against arguing that 'it's their game' for an even simpler reason, which is that this forum exists for us to talk about the game, which includes what we like and don't like. Who the game BELONGS to is irrelevant, it doesn't invalidate anyone's opinion. Just like the George Lucas example, Bungie clearly has the prerogative to make any changes they want, but we're also entitled to dislike those changes.

This actually makes a lot of sense with my experience, because I was apparently already using ARs/shotguns in the "right" playstyle so I didn't feel any kind of impact from the patch.

Same here.

My copies of the original trilogy are just fine. You seem pre-occupied with your power over things, that's disturbing.

Oh, you have a film print in good shape of the original trilogy or a copy in HD? That's amazing.

For one simple reason.

They are creating a product that people are paying for. As a consumer, you have the right to expect this product to be a certain thing. Unfortunately, the way game sales work now is that companies treat it as a 'license' to the game, and that you don't have the 'right' to play it if they don't want you do.

That's simply not right. On an ethical level.

There's also a second simple reason.
It's in the field. It's ours. Having the idea be 'It's their game' is what allowed George Lucas to go back and destroy the Original Trilogy.

My copies of the original trilogy are just fine. You seem pre-occupied with your power over things, that's disturbing.

Prime Zealot gloves and Boots
Found Verdict
Praedyth's revenge
Patience and Time

However since then it's been a lot less lucrative :-p

And shards that I've already spent.

Investment systems are not behind these changes

I rocket the flayers off the edge in the Dust Palace strike every time. I was doing it even before the Vault of Glass opened. They are the final boss of a section too. The culmination. Why has Bungie not fixed that? Because they don't drop cool shit with a high frequency.

Vote with your wallets, etc.

Besides, this patch doesnt tamper with what we were sold enough that you can say it's unethical o mrisleading. Unless you bought the game explixitly because you wanted a game where ARs were OP, I guess.

See Starcraft, Dota, Streetfighter or any RTS I can think of from the last few years for examples of games where balance is messed with after release by the developer in order to create a more varied and interesting game. And it's not done by "buffing everything else". And maybe it doesn't always work every update, but there can be more updates! Vanilla is rarely considered superior in any MP game. There are plenty of games not touched afterwards, but this is not because the dev does not want to, it's because nobody will pay him for his time or for QA or 1st party fees to make their vision reality. Bungie seems to want to create an ecosystem where this is not a problem anymore.

The alternative = do nothing worked for Halo, exploring the quirks and flaws were fun. But they are not making that game. They are making a different game, or a series of games, that they will have the money, dev bandwidth and expectation to evolve over time. This is difficult when you have 3 years between releases. Is it ruined by having persistance/investment system? For some of you yes. And you knew this before release and purchased it anyway! That is so insane!

I am the biggest Halo nerd I know IRL, maybe not alpha level like some of you but way up there, and I never played one of those titles almost every day for a month+ straight. Ever. And I worked a lot less and had a lot less children back then. Nor did I enjoy as high a percentage of the time spent as with those titles as I do with Destiny. Except maybe H1, that shit was baller.

I can see where this game is less than it's predecessors, often by design but also by omission. I can also see where it is more. And for a first release it hits a lot of what it needs to in order to keep me hooked. I may not play all the way through till the EXP, but I'll definitely be back for it if I stop and I've already got more value out of the base title than almost any non-sandbox games in my steam or console library so Bungie has succeeded where it counts as far as I am concerned.

In fact, I just checked it to be sure. https://steamdb.info/calculator/?player=feralgoat&currency=us

At almost 4 days played, Destiny is right up there near the top. Against games I have owned for years. Only Kerbal and Civ 5 beat it (And Civ 5 only because of epic lan action). And it's not my only investment game, I own all the Blizzard stuff as well. None of them are as fun or rewarding for me. I don't see where this narrative of this game being junk is coming from. It's a fantastic Bungie game. It's not a fantastic Halo game maybe, but hound 343 if you want one of those as this was not meant to be that.

The biggest problems I have had are with recent Bungie/PSN networking issues that didn't exist in the alpha/beta or first few weeks of release, and the lack of some social features I hope to see later and may be because of 1st party issues or unwillingness to dilute the MM pool. Every hopper you add reduces the quality of those remaining in theory, and there are already so many due to your hated investment system and the level spread it creates. But maybe that's not such a problem in the US where most people play from and can be corrected. I hope they sort them out.

Or how many of those are unique attempts versus repeats by the same players.

I don't think Bungie has made the data available, have they.