Well, since you can't be arsed to actually read the conversation you're contributing to...

This is a thread about why I'm leaving Destiny.

Destiny.

The video game.

Nowhere does it say that I am leaving the forums.

I understand his confusion. I think the common phrase is "I'm quitting," as in I'm quitting Destiny. I think when you title a post: "Why I'm leaving", the assumption is that you're leaving where you are, which is here. That assumption was evident in many of the replies you got. There's a gbcw tradition, and your post fell right in line with it, including the requisite lead-up of potshots at the community at large, and so we dutifully said our goodbyes and so longs, fully expecting not to see you for a week or more. Alas, you've challenged our expectations. :)

I'm glad you're still around, mind you. I'm going to assume that you like us more than you say even though you don't like Destiny.

I'm not sure what you mean by that last bit. It's not possible?

If you both play the same scenario 1000 times, you'd both end up with the close to the same value in loot drops because you both have the same odds.

You're wrong here in saying it is impossible that they won't get a similar outcome. The word you're looking for is "improbable", which is relevant as some players are stuck in improbable situations relative to another player. Compounding this would be if higher level characters get better random loot past level 20, as that would be a positive feedback loop that would tend to increase the distance between the characters.

Edit: Also, it isn't that improbable as characters would most likely (I can only make conjecture) tend to diverge earlier, when it is not that improbable that there would still be significant difference.

You're right. I used the wrong word. What I don't know is just how random everything is, but my point is that to the degree that they are random, loot drops can be perceived to be more unfair than they are.

I'm not sure what you mean by that last bit. It's not possible?

If you both play the same scenario 1000 times, you'd both end up with the close to the same value in loot drops because you both have the same odds.

You're wrong here in saying it is impossible that they won't get a similar outcome. The word you're looking for is "improbable", which is relevant as some players are stuck in improbable situations relative to another player. Compounding this would be if higher level characters get better random loot past level 20, as that would be a positive feedback loop that would tend to increase the distance between the characters.

Edit: Also, it isn't that improbable as characters would most likely (I can only make conjecture) tend to diverge earlier, when it is not that improbable that there would still be significant difference.

But...

Really with all the melodrama?

This is a thread about why I'm leaving Destiny.

Destiny.

The video game.

Nowhere does it say that I am leaving the forums.

Anything I said in the loot cave thread was said in a state of profound loss of coolness and should be taken as hyperbole. Which is also something I addressed in the thread that you can't be arsed to actually read.

Well, good. This is all new to me, so I'm thinking of solutions without having a lot of experience with similar games. You did catch the part about it being a limited window, though, right?

I didn't consider it that closely, I confess, having been horrified by tales of folks farming/gaming the D3 auction house and thereby breaking the game's economy.

I think keeping everyone's loot separate is actually the right decision; keeps the munchkinism down, nearly eliminates the "Chinese gold farm" problem, lets Bungie fix game economy problems without huge disruptions. The problem (IMO) is how the end-game focuses on loot but the loot system offers so many false cues that lead to disappointment.

-- Steve'd be much happier if Engrams always decoded to their respective rarities*, even if that meant reducing the drop rate for Legendaries.

* Or to upgrade materials of comparable value; doesn't always have to be weapons or armour.

A compromise that might help things is if they allowed trades of random drops between fire team members upon their return to the Tower. The trade window would close when you leave for a new activity. This would also add incentives to cooperative play.

O HAIL NO. Diablo III got rid of that (well, the auction house) for a reason... though they also modified the loot drops to compensate.

-- Steve thinks the big problem with Destiny's loot system is its opacity; often there's no way to tell what you got until afterward, and there are many miscues. (Particularly with Legendary Engrams.)

Well, good. This is all new to me, so I'm thinking of solutions without having a lot of experience with similar games. You did catch the part about it being a limited window, though, right?

A compromise that might help things is if they allowed trades of random drops between fire team members upon their return to the Tower. The trade window would close when you leave for a new activity. This would also add incentives to cooperative play.

O HAIL NO. Diablo III got rid of that (well, the auction house) for a reason... though they also modified the loot drops to compensate.

-- Steve thinks the big problem with Destiny's loot system is its opacity; often there's no way to tell what you got until afterward, and there are many miscues. (Particularly with Legendary Engrams.)

Well, I'm not sure what others are saying about the RNG system. I certainly don't think it's biased against anyone. It's random. How can it be biased?

The problem is that some players have had really crappy luck with it and still haven't earned much of anything valuable in spite of their accomplishments. That's not a rewarding game mechanic.

http://youtu.be/meiU6TxysCg?t=1m18s

Well, I'm not sure what others are saying about the RNG system. I certainly don't think it's biased against anyone. It's random. How can it be biased?

The problem is that some players have had really crappy luck with it and still haven't earned much of anything valuable in spite of their accomplishments. That's not a rewarding game mechanic.

I don't know. Can't the problem be that people have unrealistic expectations of an RNG?

If I expect my car to fly and it doesn't, does that make it a crappy car, Car?

The problem is that some players have had really crappy luck with it and still haven't earned much of anything valuable in spite of their accomplishments. That's not a rewarding game mechanic.

I'm not sure what you mean by that last bit. It's not possible?

If you both play the same scenario 1000 times, you'd both end up with the close to the same value in loot drops because you both have the same odds. What I'm not certain of is how much performance actually factors in. I would hope it does, but it still may be subtle enough to where you don't perceive that you getting better loot over time than a lesser performer, when actually you are.

I'm not sure what you mean by that last bit. It's not possible?

Humans are pre-disposed to spot patterns. These powers are so great they will see patterns even where none exist.

And/or they will extrapolate from too few samples that a truly random system is somehow biased against them, personally.

I was extremely critical of numerous aspects of Destiny in this very thread, and yet I still have a ton of fun with it, because rewards and loot aren't why I play this game. It's a blast to play, and a solid co-op game (Now if it only allowed teams of four).
I don't see myself getting tired of it for a good long while, assuming the DLC expands significantly on the content.

It's shooting mans perfected. Everything else is just gravy.