I wonder if being on the receiving end of these is just loud right now. I've had my far share of arc bladers take me out, but then I get two triple kills from Fists of Havoc the other day and feel a lot better about it. Wonder if anyone posted on their forum of choice that the Fists are overpowered. ;)

They couldn't and have it stand up in court.

Nova Bomb would have to be, by that logic. Given the fact that Fist still puts you in the thick of the fight, even with the residual damage, you have to *be* the epicenter of the Fistquake. You're a huge bullseye. Nova Bomb at least lets you make them cry from a safe distance.

There is so much more balance than people are giving credit for. Sure, there are things I miss about Halo's MP, but if I want those things, I'll go play Halo.

I like this leaner, more agile recipe. You have to be a shark.

~m

The more I read all this the more I think it comes down to teamwork and coordination. Nothing can't be solved without some creative thinking on the fly.

Can't just twitch shoot your way out of things, like so many other games nowadays?

On one hand I agree whole-heartedly that this is a valid (even good) development. Twitch shooting should not be a cure-all.

On the other, it's the Armor-Lock-as-stalemate-weapon issue. There is practically nothing one can do against the bubble defense without a Super handy. If it were a matter of having to do X damage over Y time and you could burst it, well..great. But it's not so. Single-handed, there is almost no recourse. I'd even thought that if the bubble were broken up into sections that could be independently damaged/destroyed by Heavy fire, that would begin to balance it a bit. But that's asking for more of a modification than will really happen.

Still personally undecided if anything needs done about it. I lean towards yes, but it's not really *breaking* the game, per se.

~m

I like it a lot, haven't mastered it yet, but overpowered? Nah.

I have found myself wishing there was some kind of Slow Grenade, though. That would slow time within the blast radius, so one could attempt to counter the Arc Blade rush.

But legitimately overpowered? Nah. I don't agree.

~m

I wonder if being on the receiving end of these is just loud right now. I've had my far share of arc bladers take me out, but then I get two triple kills from Fists of Havoc the other day and feel a lot better about it. Wonder if anyone posted on their forum of choice that the Fists are overpowered. ;)

Can't just twitch shoot your way out of things, like so many other games nowadays?

Why not just leave the Defender alone? In Control, there are two more points to capture, and likely plenty of targets to kill while the Defender sits twiddling their thumbs.

That's always been the efficient strategy, and we do tend to leave it alone, but think about it. You essentially give away a capture point to a single guardian while you go fight for another one with the hope that there won't be a Defender there too. The people in my game don't blindly rush at bubbles, but it shouldn't be the long-term issue that it is. Duration, as I've repeatedly stated, is one of the key issues. Have you seen how long those things can last? Especially with Gear that BUFFS it?

The rest of their team if they're pursuing the other 2 control points are a man down effectively. Kind of the awesome point of Control

No, the other team is holding down one point with a single man, essentially freeing up other guardians to capture and defend the other points.

A Super is a tool. It should change an encounter. It shouldn't BE the encounter. I'm not saying to get rid of it, or that it is 100% impossible to beat. I'm saying that it has far too much power when put up against the context under which it's used, and that should be addressed, not ignored simply because you found one specific situation in which it is not 100% effective.

Why not just leave the Defender alone? In Control, there are two more points to capture, and likely plenty of targets to kill while the Defender sits twiddling their thumbs.

I was reading the entire thread thinking the exact same thing. Every other super can be used to chase your ass down and kill you. If I see a titan throw that bubble down, I just turn around and go to a different point. Control isn't about how long you control the points, so just let the Titan sit there and do nothing.

Since it's my specialty, I've never been caught off guard by one, and once I was unable to resurrect because the enemy had his shotgun trained on me the entire time... It's a risky thing to trigger.

I did that the other day.
"Get up so I can kill you again!"

A Super is a tool. It should change an encounter. It shouldn't BE the encounter. I'm not saying to get rid of it, or that it is 100% impossible to beat. I'm saying that it has far too much power when put up against the context under which it's used, and that should be addressed, not ignored simply because you found one specific situation in which it is not 100% effective.

Why not just leave the Defender alone? In Control, there are two more points to capture, and likely plenty of targets to kill while the Defender sits twiddling their thumbs.

The rest of their team if they're pursuing the other 2 control points are a man down effectively. Kind of the awesome point of Control

A Super is a tool. It should change an encounter. It shouldn't BE the encounter. I'm not saying to get rid of it, or that it is 100% impossible to beat. I'm saying that it has far too much power when put up against the context under which it's used, and that should be addressed, not ignored simply because you found one specific situation in which it is not 100% effective.

Why not just leave the Defender alone? In Control, there are two more points to capture, and likely plenty of targets to kill while the Defender sits twiddling their thumbs.

I have found myself wishing there was some kind of Slow Grenade, though. That would slow time within the blast radius, so one could attempt to counter the Arc Blade rush.

But legitimately overpowered? Nah. I don't agree.

~m

- CC :shrug: Just my experience with it.

According to you, "all you need to do" is just so happen to be a Striker Titan, Just so happen to have your specific setup, and just so happen to have a full Super when you run into a Defender bubble, while just so happening to have your teammates trained on the bubble...

The other solution is to use up a Golden Gun's three shots on the bubble, which also relies on very specific events.

Yes, these specific scenarios can counter a drop bubble, but what are the odds that you'll meet all criteria?

It's like me posting this and saying "The Blade Dancer is not all that, I could counter it easily, so obviously everyone else but me is wrong."

The problem, as I said, was in how long the bubble lasts, how invincible the person is inside (assuming nobody has a Titan with a full Super in their pocket), and the ability to cast it on a capture point, effectively locking down the spot for far too long.

A Super is a tool. It should change an encounter. It shouldn't BE the encounter. I'm not saying to get rid of it, or that it is 100% impossible to beat. I'm saying that it has far too much power when put up against the context under which it's used, and that should be addressed, not ignored simply because you found one specific situation in which it is not 100% effective.

Does resurrecting do anything besides give you another chance to die? Does it, for instance, erase the kill from the enemy's score?

It does not remove it from your enemy's score, but does remove it as a death for you, so you get a chance to save your K/D. It also triggers your Sunsinger, so depending on how you have it setup, it will grant you the perks once you're fully up (not before).

Since it's my specialty, I've never been caught off guard by one, and once I was unable to resurrect because the enemy had his shotgun trained on me the entire time... It's a risky thing to trigger.

I die to this super and those crazy accurate autorifles all the time. I wont call it OP yet as I feel I still have room to adapt and still go positive K/D most games so whats not to like?

I bet those guys get pissed when they get sniped or sticky bombed or golden gunned by me as well.

The most dubious stuff is the oversheild some melee attacks/supers get. F that noise. But again, I wont cry nerf until I understand it a bit better.

I actually like all the OHKO mechanics in this game. It's poker, sometimes someone will have a hand you cannot beat but over the course of the match you need to compensate for it and use your own equivalents. It certainly stops that feeling of been locked down and shut out that would occur in Halo MP. Better teams will still thrash you, but at least you can get a few hits in!

We were in a game where the Defender planted at B, and NOBODY could touch him thanks to the over shield he got from being in his bubble and his shotgun. I dropped on his head from behind, melee'd him with the Drain, and saw half of his overshield deplete. A second punch did nothing, and he turned and killed me easily. And then he got heavy ammo for his machine gun, so he needed only step out for a second AFTER acquiring a target and taking a few shots..

The shield's duration is ridiculous. Most supers last a few seconds. In the heat of battle, every second counts... And that thing is around long enough to guarantee Zone neutralization, capture, AND defense. If nothing else, it needs a duration decrease.

Um, if you're gonna nerf my Titan, then I'd like Blade Dancer to have it's strength decreased and that resurrect the Warlock has to go bye-bye.

Does resurrecting do anything besides give you another chance to die? Does it, for instance, erase the kill from the enemy's score?

We were in a game where the Defender planted at B, and NOBODY could touch him thanks to the over shield he got from being in his bubble and his shotgun. I dropped on his head from behind, melee'd him with the Drain, and saw half of his overshield deplete. A second punch did nothing, and he turned and killed me easily. And then he got heavy ammo for his machine gun, so he needed only step out for a second AFTER acquiring a target and taking a few shots..

The shield's duration is ridiculous. Most supers last a few seconds. In the heat of battle, every second counts... And that thing is around long enough to guarantee Zone neutralization, capture, AND defense. If nothing else, it needs a duration decrease.

Um, if you're gonna nerf my Titan, then I'd like Blade Dancer to have it's strength decreased and that resurrect the Warlock has to go bye-bye.

It's funny, how many people complain one super is over powered compared to the others, when in reality they're ALL equally cheap!:P

[BR or bust] [MLG4eva] [rek skrubs]

EDIT: I wonder if the Void Bubble stops a Striker Titan.... Should test that. Might be a good (and hilarious) counter to a whole team hiding under the bubble.

Except we were able to put this to the test today.
A void grenade (with extended duration) perfectly centered inside the bubble will not pop a Titan's shields.
A full fusion rifle blast will not kill the Titan.

We decided to rush the Titan as a group, four on one, and while we were able to bring him down, it took four people about six seconds of melee and gunfire to whittle his health down faster than it could refill... Had he had a shotgun...

Like I said, I don't complain when I'm killed by a super. Everyone else is not automatically OP. The problem is extended balance. As has been said, Bungie said that a shotgun to the face can counter most things. It can't. I hit a blade dancer square with a rocket, and she kept slashing. I hit one cleanly with a fusion rifle blast, and she still had enough health to kill me...

Gunslingers can be killed easily, Strikers are dangerous, but predictable. Nova Bombers are entirely vulnerable during the windup, and Sunsingers take a second to revive, being vulnerable the entire time, and can be brought down before they even get into first person.

It's specifically those two classes, Blade Dancer and Defender, that tip all scales in a team's favor, rather than being a tactical weapon, they ARE the strategy.

I, just a few second ago, proved definitively that the Defenders are not all that. I don't use bold often to emphasize words, but look right there. Bold. Why? I was on Shores of Time heading towards B when I saw the Defender fire up his Ward of Dawn. Me, being a Striker with Death from Above and Shockwave jumped high up in the air as I rounded the corner so I could get a full view of C. Then, and this was so gratifiying, I flew from maybe the green ammo box nearer to B all the way straight into the exact center of the bubble and BLAM!! No enemy survivors, not even the Defender. I think the idea that Strikers are predictable doesn't hold up once Death from Above comes into play. Any place with enough vertical clearance becomes a danger zone... (Sorry about all the bolding and drama, I'm still giddy at how awesome that attack of mine was!)

What's more, earlier in the same match I witnessed a Warlock do a suicide Nova Bomb within the bubble. Same result. Bladedancers carve up Defenders. Gunslingers destroy the shield and then a lone Defender. Maybe a properly speced Defender who gets a Storm Fist kill and has the recharging Force Barrier might be tough to kill, but that bubble shield of theirs is by no means an instant win. (Interestingly, the Force Barrier and defensive buffs from Ward of Dawn do not stack)

I think my biggest problem with Arc Blade is you can't outrun it and can't out maneuver it. This is partially true with Nova Bomb and Fist of Havoc, but those you don't really see coming the way you watch with frustration as a Bladedancer kills the three guys on the other side of the room then runs at you taking nearly anything you shoot and then automatically chases you up into the air when you perform a perfect escape jump. Maybe a Super should equal death, but those two or three seconds vs a Bladedancer feel a lot more unfair than vs the instant death any other class brings.

We were in a game where the Defender planted at B, and NOBODY could touch him thanks to the over shield he got from being in his bubble and his shotgun. I dropped on his head from behind, melee'd him with the Drain, and saw half of his overshield deplete. A second punch did nothing, and he turned and killed me easily. And then he got heavy ammo for his machine gun, so he needed only step out for a second AFTER acquiring a target and taking a few shots..

The shield's duration is ridiculous. Most supers last a few seconds. In the heat of battle, every second counts... And that thing is around long enough to guarantee Zone neutralization, capture, AND defense. If nothing else, it needs a duration decrease.

Um, if you're gonna nerf my Titan, then I'd like Blade Dancer to have it's strength decreased and that resurrect the Warlock has to go bye-bye.

It's funny, how many people complain one super is over powered compared to the others, when in reality they're ALL equally cheap!:P

[BR or bust] [MLG4eva] [rek skrubs]

EDIT: I wonder if the Void Bubble stops a Striker Titan.... Should test that. Might be a good (and hilarious) counter to a whole team hiding under the bubble.

Except we were able to put this to the test today.
A void grenade (with extended duration) perfectly centered inside the bubble will not pop a Titan's shields.
A full fusion rifle blast will not kill the Titan.

We decided to rush the Titan as a group, four on one, and while we were able to bring him down, it took four people about six seconds of melee and gunfire to whittle his health down faster than it could refill... Had he had a shotgun...

Like I said, I don't complain when I'm killed by a super. Everyone else is not automatically OP. The problem is extended balance. As has been said, Bungie said that a shotgun to the face can counter most things. It can't. I hit a blade dancer square with a rocket, and she kept slashing. I hit one cleanly with a fusion rifle blast, and she still had enough health to kill me...

Gunslingers can be killed easily, Strikers are dangerous, but predictable. Nova Bombers are entirely vulnerable during the windup, and Sunsingers take a second to revive, being vulnerable the entire time, and can be brought down before they even get into first person.

It's specifically those two classes, Blade Dancer and Defender, that tip all scales in a team's favor, rather than being a tactical weapon, they ARE the strategy.