You and hyperbole need to find a room.

You're literally worse than Hitler.

How bad could Hitler be? I mean, he killed Hitler.

He also killed the guy who killed Hitler.

The Speaker: I could tell you a story, about how Monochron acuired the Cryptic Dragon, but I won't, because it will put you to sleep.

Very true. It is remarkably dull until you get something good.

P.S. Hat's off to Monochron for recognizing when my tongue was in my cheek, and keeping his sense of humor in a thread that got nastier than it needed to.

The Cave (and Monochron) understand that Kermit does not have to be a disciple to be a good person :D

You're projecting. I don't care about being cool. Loot farming diminishes the game for everyone. I don't accept the premise that it's gameplay. It is something else. It depresses me that that's how people spend their time. It depresses me that people can't just have fun without caring that their gear is not the best RIGHT NOW. You might say that I feel pretty strongly about it, but I come to those views honestly. I didn't post them here to get attaboys.

You're still letting the way other people play the game affect you personally, which is bad, and you acted out in such a way to affect their experience negatively, which is totally a douche move.

Point taken. From my perspective, they were already acting in a way that affected their experience negatively without me doing anything.

I know this because I danced in the cave for giggles and made many people angry. But it's funny to me, and I fully acknowledge that it's a douche move. However, I didn't do it for some holier-than-though reason because-Bungie-is-so-awesome-yay, I did it for my own enjoyment.

I don't understand what you're saying my motivations were.

However, I helped two people get there today, explained the whole "etiquette" about how and when to get loot, and then spent an hour helping them get stuff (since my explosive-round regulator clears enemies faster than rifles). One of the two people had two Legendary Engrams in about ten minutes, and he didn't even shoot at the cave.

The Speaker: I could tell you a story, about how Monochron acquired the Cryptic Dragon, but I won't, because it will put you to sleep.

Point is, this place isn't breaking any rules. It's a mistake, but everything is well within the established rule set that Bungie provided. It needs to be removed, yes. But flat-out removing it without addressing the issues that make it extremely appealing to people is going to hurt the game, and that wouldn't make Activision any happier than the reviews have.

It is a mistake, and for one impulsive moment, I fixed it in one instance. I don't take pride in it, but I don't see how people take pride in exploiting the system either.

I got to level 27 the hard way. I struggled through the Weeklies for a handful of coins. I have over 70 strikes under my belt, and have pretty much become numb to all of the bosses, and have found MANY exploits (that I don't loosely share) to kill them out of the sheer number of ways that I have approached battles... And someone who just picked up the game and started farming has far better loot and gear than I do?

... Who. Cares?

I admire your skill and dedication, but if I saw you in the Tower looking resplendent and didn't know you, I might not … because of the stupid loot cave.

I feel good about my stuff because I earned it, and I had a ton of fun getting it. If some Cave farmer gets tons of gear the easy way, that's his deal. Let him get some joy out of the game his own way. I'll still wreck him in PvE, and I won't turn down his help when the going gets tough.

You're a skilled player. You'll always be ahead of me, and that's okay. This thread has moved the needle closer to Cody's position for me. Investment systems screw with people's heads. Loot should not be the purpose for playing the game. I've been able to have fun without worrying about loot, and thinking of loot as a bonus. If other people can't, I think they'd be better off finding other ways to spend their time. Yes, that's a judgment, but I stand by it.

People play the way they want to play, and if that means getting to max level by doing nothing but picking and trading in Spinmetal, or tackling the Raid over and over, then that's OKAY.

Yes, it is. I'm all for different paths to glory. Diminish the value of investment, though, and glory means less to everyone. Not a fan of shortcuts in real life either.

Bungie made a world where most of that is possible, and if they want to change it, they can, but it's not your job to feel indignant for them. You aren't an employee. Don't be a douche, you're better than that.

More projection. All these adjectives attached to me in this thread, yet few of them come from me. Indignant. Bitter. Angry. Proud. Let's imagine Destiny had proximity chat, a feature many think it should have. I would not have impulsively sat in that cave THAT ONE TIME--I could have communicated in a different way. I could have said to the people in my bubble, "You might get a better gun, but you're blowing your chance to become a better player! Let's go to Venus! Let's do something fun! Get off this hamster wheel! You're better than this!"

Kermit

P.S. Hat's off to Monochron for recognizing when my tongue was in my cheek, and keeping his sense of humor in a thread that got nastier than it needed to.

You're projecting. I don't care about being cool. Loot farming diminishes the game for everyone. I don't accept the premise that it's gameplay. It is something else. It depresses me that that's how people spend their time. It depresses me that people can't just have fun without caring that their gear is not the best RIGHT NOW. You might say that I feel pretty strongly about it, but I come to those views honestly. I didn't post them here to get attaboys.

You're still letting the way other people play the game affect you personally, which is bad, and you acted out in such a way to affect their experience negatively, which is totally a douche move.

I know this because I danced in the cave for giggles and made many people angry. But it's funny to me, and I fully acknowledge that it's a douche move. However, I didn't do it for some holier-than-though reason because-Bungie-is-so-awesome-yay, I did it for my own enjoyment.

However, I helped two people get there today, explained the whole "etiquette" about how and when to get loot, and then spent an hour helping them get stuff (since my explosive-round regulator clears enemies faster than rifles). One of the two people had two Legendary Engrams in about ten minutes, and he didn't even shoot at the cave.

Point is, this place isn't breaking any rules. It's a mistake, but everything is well within the established rule set that Bungie provided. It needs to be removed, yes. But flat-out removing it without addressing the issues that make it extremely appealing to people is going to hurt the game, and that wouldn't make Activision any happier than the reviews have.

I got to level 27 the hard way. I struggled through the Weeklies for a handful of coins. I have over 70 strikes under my belt, and have pretty much become numb to all of the bosses, and have found MANY exploits (that I don't loosely share) to kill them out of the sheer number of ways that I have approached battles... And someone who just picked up the game and started farming has far better loot and gear than I do?

... Who. Cares?

I feel good about my stuff because I earned it, and I had a ton of fun getting it. If some Cave farmer gets tons of gear the easy way, that's his deal. Let him get some joy out of the game his own way. I'll still wreck him in PvE, and I won't turn down his help when the going gets tough.

People play the way they want to play, and if that means getting to max level by doing nothing but picking and trading in Spinmetal, or tackling the Raid over and over, then that's OKAY. Bungie made a world where most of that is possible, and if they want to change it, they can, but it's not your job to feel indignant for them. You aren't an employee. Don't be a douche, you're better than that.

(I'm not responding to anyone in particular, I just needed to find a spot to reply.)

Friendly debates on the merits of cave farming vs. cave sitting are fine. Calling people out on things you think are wrong is fine.

Resorting to name-calling, deliberate unfriendly trolling, or catty commentary is not fine.

I don't want to lock large parts of this thread yet, so I'll just lock my own post as a warning. Chill out while you still have some dignity left.

But its your attitude. Its not very good. I might even say caustic. Im almost 100% certain people would have responded far better to you if you were a bit more tactful. Its hardly surprising people are being smartasses when you keep doing your best to rub them the wrong way.

There doesn't even need to be this big discussion about it, everyone should just let people play the game how they want and not intentionally stop others from doing so.

Heh. As long as playing the game they want doesn't go against your definitions? Double standard much? Sitting is highly supported by Bungie. It's been shown in most of their videos! But sit in the wrong spot and people go all hypocritical over it. Fun times. :)

This is exactly what doesn't need to be a discussion. Are you being sarcastic? Your arguments are pretty damn similar to people who are being serious.

Sitting in the cave is obviously grieving the farmers.

Seriously though, my definitions? I'm just saying don't be a jerk to other people playing the game!? If playing the game your is to intentionally prevent others from doing an activity . . . you are being a jerk. I can't even tell what you are arguing for here.

Course, this all seems like a tangential argument. How does Bungie fanboyism relate to whether or not cave-sitting is griefing? Or to UnrealCh13f's post. Seems like something anyone could argueeither side of regardless of Bungie fanboy status.

Oh, its an ad hominem fallacy? Never mind then.

There doesn't even need to be this big discussion about it, everyone should just let people play the game how they want and not intentionally stop others from doing so.

Heh. As long as playing the game they want doesn't go against your definitions? Double standard much? Sitting is highly supported by Bungie. It's been shown in most of their videos! But sit in the wrong spot and people go all hypocritical over it. Fun times. :)

*shrug*

BUT, to antagonize other players who have different ideas? Can you seriously be that mad about that?

I think the issue is that a lot of people are actually angry at those using the Cave. So much so that a couple people are preventing them from using it. There is no reason for that kind of behavior. It is jerk behavior and I don't think that's debatable.

There doesn't even need to be this big discussion about it, everyone should just let people play the game how they want and not intentionally stop others from doing so.

Edit: And apparently Unreal just replied above while I was typing this post, confirming for the most part what I was thinking. Pwned. :D

You can always count on elitist Bungie fanboys with a chronic case of post-purchase rationalization to link up like Voltron and silence all criticism of this game. Bonus points if they use cheap personal shots to discredit your opinion.

You and I both know that you're not sitting in the cave to admire the scenery.

You're right. But truth be told, I was only sitting in there for 30 seconds while I took that picture, while those players were just returning from their loot grab.

Truth be told, I went right back to that spot and started shooting those mob spawns.

Truth be told, I interfered with no one.

But man, did it get your attention. Here's my official stance on the cave looting system.

In my opinion, it appears to be something that was overlooked, and something that will be patched in the future. Heck, I'll admit I use it for my personal gains.

BUT, to antagonize other players who have different ideas? Can you seriously be that mad about that?

People farming that cave have the same right to be there as the people who choose to sit there. That bothers you? Leave and come back. It's really that simple.

"Yeah, I ruined someone's farming session. What of it? Look at me, look how cool I am for being a killjoy!"