I have quite a ways to go before my first thoughts on Destiny's narrative really start to form, but...

it feels like Halo CE - short bursts of story that provide a framework to your own personally-created narrative while slowly pulling you through different aspects of the universe.

Halo 1 does not throw very many details at you, but it has an extremely defined narrative, which all aspects of the game are tightly built around. Even in places where the game is "nonlinear" or "open," that openness is what the narrative wants you to feel. You can choose your exact trajectory to some degree, and it's certainly designed to make you feel like you're a driving force at times, but calling it a "personally-created narrative" seems strange to me. Sort of like people calling the Chief a "blank slate" in Bungie's games, when he strikes me as a simple but extremely well-defined archetype.

Although if we're simply discussion how it feels, I guess the description can make sense, and there's plenty of room for imagination. Maybe I'm just looking at your sentence from a different angle.

I think so. :) The main point I'd put out front and center is the RPG sourcebook and Gamemaster analogy. But we definitely only half-agree on the Chief element. He's not a blank slate, but he's an open slate. He's a well-defined archetype that you can immediately jump into. And in Halo CE he's probably the least defined. The Covenant are simply evil monsters who eventually get some religious references once Keyes learned Sangheili in his jail cell.:) So ultimately, the gameplay itself felt just as much of the story or more. Me escaping the Maw on the Warthog - that was the exciting adventure. That time I killed two hunters with nothing but smacks was my own personal action scene, etc. Anyways...

A tabletop game is another good example. It gives you fiction but just enough that it gets to be you who tells the story as you play. And it doesn't give you too much so that you can continue to enjoy the game as you play it over and over. When I play the X-Wing miniatures game, there is no role I have to constantly relive over and over, I just have a lot of texture and ambience to work with that makes the gameplay more exciting and flavorful.

Also, all these comments from me are half-cocked, so don't expect good metaphors for a few months. :)

If anything they need to do MORE telling in some places, at least as far as the past is concerned.

He doesn't mean visually showing, he means it in the sense that it shouldn't be done through exposition. It should be explaining the why and how in order to draw us in, not simply showing us the what.

If anything they need to do MORE telling in some places, at least as far as the past is concerned.

Definitely. But I think they need to do more showing as well. Part of the reason why the story lacks a sense of urgency is that we don't get to see what we're fighting for. Who lives in the City? What happens if we fail and the perimeter is breached? There has to be some way of showing this, but it never happens.

Yes, Earth is a wasteland, but that happened in the distant past. It's not visceral enough to create a real sense of urgency. We need to see why the Darkness is a threat right now.

it feels like Halo CE - short bursts of story that provide a framework to your own personally-created narrative while slowly pulling you through different aspects of the universe.

Halo 1 does not throw very many details at you, but it has an extremely defined narrative, which all aspects of the game are tightly built around. Even in places where the game is "nonlinear" or "open," that openness is what the narrative wants you to feel. You can choose your exact trajectory to some degree, and it's certainly designed to make you feel like you're a driving force at times, but calling it a "personally-created narrative" seems strange to me. Sort of like people calling the Chief a "blank slate" in Bungie's games, when he strikes me as a simple but extremely well-defined archetype.

Although if we're simply discussion how it feels, I guess the description can make sense, and there's plenty of room for imagination. Maybe I'm just looking at your sentence from a different angle.

Destiny violates the "show, don't tell" rule of storytelling. The Speaker goes on and on about how dire circumstances are and how important it is to protect the Light, but we never really understand why it's such a big deal because we don't see why. The Hive are performing a ritual and it's bad news for the Light... but why, exactly? We never find out.

I disagree. Earth is a wasteland, and you see that right at the start of the game. You do have to take it on word alone that there was a Golden Age and that the Darkness showed up and ruined it. Outside of the Tower, aliens be running around all over the place like they own the planet. Then we go to the Moon and there's all sorts of screwed up stuff going on. At just this point in the game, they've done more showing and almost no telling for how things got so bad. The Speaker even goes on at one point to say something like (paraphrased and spiced up by me), "Oh my goodness I could go on and on about the things I've seen and the badness that went down yo, but screw backstory!"

If anything they need to do MORE telling in some places, at least as far as the past is concerned.

As for the ritual and us never finding out, well, we don't find out because we stop them. At one point they do directly say that their ritual is draining the Traveler of its light. I suppose if we don't stop them, you'll get to find out that the last city has fallen and that humanity is probably dead. :P

I understand that this is a 10 year story and the first chapter of a larger tale, and I don't expect all of the answers right now, but we need some sense of danger or else it's just another weekend time-waster.

I do agree with the lack of danger. There's really no urgency to anything I'm doing. I tried to be like Steve Irwin and sneak right up on those ritualistic Hive, but they saw me and weren't having anything to do with that. I'm not taking their big galaxy-ending-doom-threats seriously. :P

I don't feel that way at all and Im still only playing through solo first. Like I've said, it feels like Halo CE - short bursts of story that provide a framework to your own personally-created narrative while slowly pulling you through different aspects of the universe. It's not removing something, it's keeping a movie-like cutscene experience at a minimum to allow the story to be told in a different way: the game itself. The actions I do, the details I find, the ambience I overhear. And yes this also leaves space enough to allow multiple people to fight through the story without being bogged down by too many interludes but it also allows for solo replayability as well. The short story prompts get you into a mission and going and that's where different, sometimes new, things will happen as you continue to play and play, as opposed to making you relive long cutscenes over and over. Some games have an intense eight hour campaign full of five minute cutscenes every twenty minutes and that be amazing. Destiny isn't attempting that approach. It feels like a slow build, minimum intrusion to allow each mission to stay fruitful and flexible for extended replayability and a much longer adventure down the road.

Eh, I'd argue that Halo 1 actually had an extremely well defined story that doesn't compare to Destiny in that it seems straight forward at first but builds into significance and urgency as far as there being the Covenant after us and thus we need to survive, round up survivors, and find the Captain, but there's this big mystery about the random ring world, why the Covenant want it, is it a weapon that can turn the tide of this decades-long war, and oh my gosh the Flood. The narrative and overall writing for H1 was absolutely solid.

Destiny lacks almost all of this, but it appears to be working thus far. I only just got to Venus last night, but it seems like all story bits from Earth got completely dropped at this point. The Moon's story seems to be leading us somewhere real, which is why we're going to Venus. I assume things will pick up. The dropping of plot elements makes me furious in general, but I'm willing to be very patient in this case. Expansion in December, another later on. There's that huge bunker in the Grottos. Earth isn't over yet. Destiny 2 or whatever they have coming could absolutely tie back to a lot of this stuff, too.

At the moment, this game has not taken anything in-game from the story and dropped it to fit something convenient. We don't need many cutscenes at the moment. There's plenty of fun and action to be had, and right now things are building. I agree with how you say it's a slow build with minimum intrusion, and it has allowed each mission to stay fruitful and flexible (especially when playing with friends).

I understand that this is a 10 year story and the first chapter of a larger tale, and I don't expect all of the answers right now, but we need some sense of danger or else it's just another weekend time-waster.

I think I can sum up my initial impressions with this:

So, in speculation, I made this post about the Sword of Crota. I connected the mission description with an apparently unrelated image and thought, man, how epic would it be if the sword was this giant massive.. thing?

Well, anyway, today we played the Sword of Crota mission and the sword was the same sword model that the Hive use. Nothing special about it at all. It's just floating there--hold X to pick up.

Obviously, once we pick it up, it will vanish, the enemies will attack, boss battle will ensue, end of mission. Ho hum. I was disappointed.

Until Avateur picked it up. And it didn't vanish. No, what happened next was hilariously epic and amazing. Bravo, Bungie. That was awesome. The next mission, what happens? Oh, this guy?

Yeah, if the rest of the game keeps up these unexpected surprises, I am going to be very happy. I am already very happy.

--

Yeah, I'm thinking the star missions are side quests, while the stars with wings are the main story? I think that's why some of these missions feel random and disjointed, but eh--I'll form my story thoughts when the Moon dust settles.

I loved the change of pace. I had alot of fun in that one. Got too overzealous at one point got downed - but wasn't too beat up about it.

TL;DR

Bungie - I want to be legend with a sword. :)

Did that last night as well. Whew... that was rough. I did it with randoms, and let me tell you; 5 wizards trying to kill you at once? + Laser face.

Gonna have to give that a spin tonight. I fear no Wizard. Solar Fusion Rifle + Handcannon = Death

I never thought I'd have this much fun with the Hunter. My beta experience taught me I'll love the Titan regardless, and I may need a little more time to become truly happy with the Warlock, but the Hunter has proven a surprise. My only real complaint is that Golden Gun doesn't result in the shower of Orbs that FoH and Nova Bomb create.

~m

Destiny is not for everyone. The randoms I was with did not enjoy it. We did beat it, but I don't think those I played with will be doing that strike again in some time.

I don't feel that way at all and Im still only playing through solo first. Like I've said, it feels like Halo CE - short bursts of story that provide a framework to your own personally-created narrative while slowly pulling you through different aspects of the universe.

I agree with just about everything you said. To be fair though, games can still tell compelling stories without cutscenes, I guess I just haven't seen that yet in Destiny. In my meager progression through the game so far it looks to me like Bungie swapped having memorable and interesting characters out for replayability/gameplay purposes. I fully admit that the rest of the game could prove me wrong though.

Concerning Halo CE however, the character and story development started from the beginning and that is what drew me in. I liked Keyes a lot by the third mission when I rescued him. Cortana's banter to the chief made me fond of her by the second or third mission. Even hearing Foehammer over the radio made me feel connected to the survivors on the ring.
So far in Destiny I don't feel connected to any other NPC Guardians (in fact that chick we see watching as we fly off in the first mission is pissing me off because she is never interested in helping me not die). The Speaker has only repeated Destiny marketing buzz to me. Dinklebot has revealed back story, but has no real personality so far. In fact, even the enemies don't have personality (though I haven't gotten to the rest yet).

Disclaimer: These are just in-progress thoughts. My opinions may change if these issues go away as I continue.

I think that's what some people have a problem with though. As the Halo series went on, the cutscenes started to get longer and longer. Plus I think some people were hoping for that more lengthy experience based on some comments Bungie made somewhere.

Yeah, it may be weird but I never skipped Halo cutscenes on replays, even the hundredth time, until Reach. And they were beautiful and effective but their length and somber tone just doesn't work over and over. So I'm happy we don't have that here, but I understand where the expectations are coming from. For me, I'm still learning what kind of game Destiny is and really trying hard to not compare it to Halo.

I don't understand the length complaint. I guess Destiny must be way more open to different play styles than Halo ever was because I've been pouring hours into it and I've only just completed the basic moon missions. I would have beaten a Halo by now but I still have two whole planets left! Wait, I just compared it to Halo - damnit!

That Moon Strike. Man.

We were what, level 11/12 when we took it on? So a bit a of challenge compared to doing it at a higher level.

Absolutely a different experience than the Devil's Lair. Yeah, the boss was a huge bullet sponge, but the battle was actually massively challenging and engaging. Great experience with Avateur and Ducain in making it through. Thanks, Bungie! Had a blast. And we've got 2 more planets still to explore, and more.

Pro tip: don't hide in the doorway.

p.s., considering the coordination and perseverance required for us to get through that Strike, I agree with Bungie's decision on Raids.

Leviathan and I and a random tried the Moon Raid last night... It did not end well... which is GREAT! I now look forward to leveling the heck up and killing the crap out of that big monster.

Pro tip: don't hide in the doorway. Hilariously bad things happen to your team when you do.

Pro tip: don't hide in the doorway.

Hah, me and Ragashingo tried out our first strike at 3 am last night and were soon trapped in that blasted doorway. A Shrieker, two Knights and three Wizards invading a tiny room! We actually had to give up (I think my level was too low and we needed another teammate), but it was crazy while it lasted. I'm really looking forward to tackling that again with new levels and gear soon.

It seems to me that one of Bungie's major goals is to ensure that you are playing Destiny with friends and so they have optimized around that experience as much as possible. That's why I'm loving the story so far, it gives me something really fun to do with my friends where we have very little to interrupt our conversation.

It kind of sounds like you are saying that Bungie is trying to ensure you are playing with friends by removing part of what makes games fun for a single player (cut-scenes / story exposition).

I don't feel that way at all and Im still only playing through solo first. Like I've said, it feels like Halo CE - short bursts of story that provide a framework to your own personally-created narrative while slowly pulling you through different aspects of the universe. It's not removing something, it's keeping a movie-like cutscene experience at a minimum to allow the story to be told in a different way: the game itself. The actions I do, the details I find, the ambience I overhear. And yes this also leaves space enough to allow multiple people to fight through the story without being bogged down by too many interludes but it also allows for solo replayability as well. The short story prompts get you into a mission and going and that's where different, sometimes new, things will happen as you continue to play and play, as opposed to making you relive long cutscenes over and over. Some games have an intense eight hour campaign full of five minute cutscenes every twenty minutes and that be amazing. Destiny isn't attempting that approach. It feels like a slow build, minimum intrusion to allow each mission to stay fruitful and flexible for extended replayability and a much longer adventure down the road.

It seems to me that one of Bungie's major goals is to ensure that you are playing Destiny with friends and so they have optimized around that experience as much as possible. That's why I'm loving the story so far, it gives me something really fun to do with my friends where we have very little to interrupt our conversation.

It kind of sounds like you are saying that Bungie is trying to ensure you are playing with friends by removing part of what makes games fun for a single player (cut-scenes / story exposition).

I'm saying it seems like a trade-off that Bungie chose. Reducing fun for solo players, but increasing fun for fireteams. I've tried playing campaign missions with my friends before but they almost alway prefer to do firefights or competitive multiplayer instead.

It seems to me that one of Bungie's major goals is to ensure that you are playing Destiny with friends and so they have optimized around that experience as much as possible. That's why I'm loving the story so far, it gives me something really fun to do with my friends where we have very little to interrupt our conversation.

It kind of sounds like you are saying that Bungie is trying to ensure you are playing with friends by removing part of what makes games fun for a single player (cut-scenes / story exposition).

The only thing I'm a bit upset about is the lack of split screen but I understand from a technical standpoint it may not been possible.