I understand too, that I shouldn't feel entitled to exactly the game I was expecting.

But you do have the right to be disappointed. Don't let anyone make you feel bad for expressing your disappointment in something.

Are you saying it's not worth $60?

I'm saying that if it is like the first episode of a TV series (30 minutes, ~29 episodes per season) then no, it is absolutely not worth $60. Having not finished it, I can't make that call yet. All I can say now is that I currently think the story and character development are falling flat. If that is Bungies intent (and they are use the next "episodes" to introduce good story telling) then I think that is a bad idea. I don't think that is the case though.

The game is more than story. I'll be disappointed if the story is bad like you say, but maybe the value is measured by fun and time spent playing. Cough, Titanfall, cough.

I agree, it is still very very fun for me to play. I fear though, that because there isn't good lore to get me engaged, I won't stick around much.
I understand too, that I shouldn't feel entitled to exactly the game I was expecting.

I've been accused of being confrontational, so please don't take this the wrong way. But do you see how disgruntled players have very little incentive to spend even more money on DLC in the blind hope that it will expand upon a story that should have been better explained in the first place? Even if you personally disagree that the story is bad or that downloading paid DLC to make sense of it is bad?

re: Grimoire cards - As with so many aspects of this game, I actually like the concept. I just hate the execution. Why are these not in-game? Why do so many of them have absolutely no text? Why is almost all of the game's backstory told in this format when the key points could (and should, IMO) have been expressed in the main narrative? Why does the game fail to explain at any point what Grimoire cards even are?! I wonder what percentage of players actually reads them...

I don't mind that they're not in the game. I've viewed them as extras for the hardcore, but that assumes that they are supplemental, not primary. I've gone to look at them once after I started playing, and immediately found a "come back after the beta" card, and I was like, huh?

One thing I noticed is that every shop-Sparrow has Brake, whereas the plot-Sparrow does not.

But thanks for the offer. My roommate has a PS4 with Destiny, I'll see if he will let me create a character on his Gamertag. (Or whatever it is on PS.)

I may disagree with your opinion on the game (though I'm glad you're giving it time before you finalize), I agree with you on the story and not wanting to go on blind faith. I get it. I'm a Missouri Tigers fan, and I go on blind faith to the coaching staff every year. Subsequently, I get my heart broken every year.

I think it's reasonable for you to feel the way you do. I just feel differently. I think the biggest difference is that I am hopeful and you are not. That's not a bad thing, or a good thing, the concept itself is indifferent. It's just how we are basing our opinions.

Hope.

We both probably hope the DLC is great, but you are not hopeful that it will be. I am hopeful.

Also, I don't like that Grimoire Cards are not in game (I agree the execution is a bit wonky) - but it does give me the benefit of reading them while I'm at work!

If you're playing, I'm off for the rest of the week. I'm on PS4. PSN ID: SpleenCarnival. We should get together.

re: Grimoire cards - As with so many aspects of this game, I actually like the concept. I just hate the execution. Why are these not in-game? Why do so many of them have absolutely no text? Why is almost all of the game's backstory told in this format when the key points could (and should, IMO) have been expressed in the main narrative? Why does the game fail to explain at any point what Grimoire cards even are?! I wonder what percentage of players actually reads them...

Maybe all of Destiny 1 is foundational, with very few big events, but it's stupid for me to keep typing. You guys have finished the game (I assume), and you're entitled to your opinions.

That is exaclty my thought. WE've been given a (very) light introduction to the universe. The Grimoire Cards provide some context. I think the issue is the story that was being told in this, the pilot episode, was not told very well. We don't understand why we're doing what we're doing.

In Halo CE, the reason we didn't know much was because there was a mystery and that was part of the narrative (Why are the Covenant attacking? Where did the Flood come from? What does Halo do? Forerunner?!). The player knew that and could reconsile with not knowing and each level in the campaign had set objectives that fit in the larger mystery and advanced us closer to resolution.

In Destiny, there's mystery in the big, decade long picture, but I have no idea why I did what I did in the campaign, how it fits in the larger mystery, or what resolution mght look like. I'm completely clueless. The Grimoire Cards helped a little, but I had to fill in the gaps with my own opinions, which I don't know to be true.

I'm hoping the DLC will provide some clarity, we'll see.

The game is more than story. I'll be disappointed if the story is bad like you say, but maybe the value is measured by fun and time spent playing. Cough, Titanfall, cough.

I'm a story guy, and I don't like this trend, yet I've bought three copies, and I think/hope I'll get my money's worth.

• How often am I supposed to find those green loot chests? Am I just not noticing them on many missions?

Not very often. One or two per mission, they are hidden.

[*]who was that masked guy that told me about the traveller, and why did he wait until I'd already finished a mission?

That was explained in dialogue.

[*]is my character's race and gender purely cosmetic, or does it affect my stats?

You can easily look that up. Consmetic.

[*]is there a good reason not to use my heavy machine gun for every enemy, since purple ammo drops happen all the damn time?

Heavy ammo does not drop frequently at all.

[*]I went into some caves in the russia area, and there were enemies in them that I couldn't damage. they said 'resist' when I shot them. what's going on there? do I need some other kind of damage to hurt them?

Yes.

No offense, but all of your questions can be answered by simple googling. I was asking more story /comprehension questions that I think the game failed to properly explain, or that I missed and can't find online.

Actually, they didn't.

You can't make the argument that the impression Bungie gave of Destiny was one of a "first episode of a ~30 ep. TV series". There are expectations of a game at full retail price launching on multiple platforms, and Bungie in no way tried to deter those expectations. They were inspired by telling stories in an episodic way, not releasing 30 bit-sized games over the space of 10 years each being $60.

What that article shows is nothing more than Bungie embracing episodic story telling, which can certainly be a positive. Bungie led us to beleive that this game would be a full title; something that would fully immerse us in their world. After my hours of playing there has been no story immersion.

If they are saving all the good story telling for later smaller episodes and just cramming this game with great gameplay but no story, that makes no sense. They want us immersed in the world. They would not intentionally release a "pilot episode" in the way the released Destiny.

At least the first episode of breaking bad told a story, one that made sense, where things happened, and it was emotionally gripping.

On some levels, yes, but go back and watch it now and you can see they were struggling with tone and some of the characters aren't quite defined. Jesse is a foil to Walter's big brain, not to his evil.

Isn't that just character development?

Precisely. Character development you would not have seen coming were you judging the show by its first episode.

I'm not going to get too defensive about Destiny's story (yet) because I've seen so little of it. It might take me a long time to get my head around the story, which is rough, because, like Levi, I'm used to being done or close to done by now with the Halos (except the first one, which took me about a week--that was before I got into the habit of taking time off to play games).

Maybe all of Destiny 1 is foundational, with very few big events, but it's stupid for me to keep typing. You guys have finished the game (I assume), and you're entitled to your opinions.

• How often am I supposed to find those green loot chests? Am I just not noticing them on many missions?
  
• who was that masked guy that told me about the traveller, and why did he wait until I'd already finished a mission?
  
• is my character's race and gender purely cosmetic, or does it affect my stats?
  
• is there a good reason not to use my heavy machine gun for every enemy, since purple ammo drops happen all the damn time?
  
• I went into some caves in the russia area, and there were enemies in them that I couldn't damage. they said 'resist' when I shot them. what's going on there? do I need some other kind of damage to hurt them?

Shit Bungie. Destiny is fun as hell, but man you guys absolutely suck at creating a narrative.

This is my first impression as well. I'm only up to level 5, but so far the story has been scant and I have no idea what's going on. I got revived by some ghost robot (was I the skeleton in that car?) and I spent two hours making an extraordinarily handsome blue fellow who looks like Ziggy Stardust. OK that part was amazing. but then the game just dumps me into the hub world with no context whatsoever? I finished an entire mission before my character was even briefed on what the hell a guardian even is. I've finished a bunch more missions after that, and nothing has really happened! I think I found an ancient AI, but that's all I was told. So what? Where's the relevance? Who gives a rip?

I know lots of people on the internet like to bemoan modern games narratives as unnecessarily hand-holding the player and shoving narrative down his throat (MGS4...!) but surely there must be a happy medium between no story at all and too much.

Full disclosure: I barely watched anything before the game was released and didn't play the beta. I didn't buy the game either (got it for free) so I'm not feeling any of that "must defend my purchase" emotion.

I agree though, the gameplay is awesome. it's very rewarding to shoot those 4 armed alien guys and also those explodey zombie dudes. I like it when you shoot that knives dude's head off and steam shoots out of his corpse. So far the actual shooty part of the game has been a blast, and the game is beautiful, the art direction is great, and I love the UI. but holy hell does the writing suck sometimes ("That's a wizard! Kill it!") and what the hell is going on with the ghost's voice? did they forget to replace the placeholder dialogue? Is that why Marty isn't at Bungie anymore?

At least the first episode of breaking bad told a story, one that made sense, where things happened, and it was emotionally gripping.

On some levels, yes, but go back and watch it now and you can see they were struggling with tone and some of the characters aren't quite defined. Jesse is a foil to Walter's big brain, not to his evil.

Isn't that just character development?

For me I guess it just isn't what I expected. I feel like they advertised a theatrical release, asked me to pay for a theatrical release, but delivered an episode of TV show instead.
I don't mean length wise, I'm just continuing the example Kermit made.

Actually, they didn't.

That's fine and all, but each episode of a TV series like that is part of a larger story, but each one also has a beginning middle and end and is satisfying on its own. Destiny wasn't. It was the worst pilot episode ever.

Wow. Worse than Cop Rock? Damn.

For me I guess it just isn't what I expected. I feel like they advertised a theatrical release, asked me to pay for a theatrical release, but delivered an episode of TV show instead.
I don't mean length wise, I'm just continuing the example Kermit made.

Actually, they didn't.

That's fine and all, but each episode of a TV series like that is part of a larger story, but each one also has a beginning middle and end and is satisfying on its own. Destiny wasn't. It was the worst pilot episode ever.

For me I guess it just isn't what I expected. I feel like they advertised a theatrical release, asked me to pay for a theatrical release, but delivered an episode of TV show instead.
I don't mean length wise, I'm just continuing the example Kermit made.

Actually, they didn't.

This discussion reminds me of my experience with Breaking Bad. I liked the first episode, but didn't love it. I certainly didn't expect that show to become what it did when it hit its stride.

At least the first episode of breaking bad told a story, one that made sense, where things happened, and it was emotionally gripping.

On some levels, yes, but go back and watch it now and you can see they were struggling with tone and some of the characters aren't quite defined. Jesse is a foil to Walter's big brain, not to his evil.

You may be right this time, Cody. I don't know yet.

Yeah, it's obvious they were feeling things out, but the point was you came for a narrative and you at least got one. Look at Halo. Huge world and universe, and the first game gave you a story without spoiling any of that.