"A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand."

"But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won."

"Oddly , this is familiar to you, as if it were from an old dream, but you can't exactly remember…"

"Now in the Quantum Moment Before the Closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are Destiny"

Guardians, does this seem familiar to you? Where is Demos?

http://forums.bungie.org/story/?noframes;read=67053

Discuss. Thought it should get a post here.

Umm... you might be on to something.

The Traveler arrived first on Mars.

Durandal was created on Mars.

-- Steve's no veteran of a thousand psychic wars... but he's seen some things, man.

My impression is that it's greed for the Cabal, though there's been little I'm aware of that argues in any particular direction for them.

I suspect that the Cabal are the "traditional" extra-terrestrial enemy. An expansionist imperial military force, bent on conquest under the pretext of civilising the natives but really amassing resources for the home territory. Mars may be their frontier and them the enemy the Exos were created to withstand.

Hmm... I always thought Durandal/Thoth fusing was the beginning of one entity. I never got the impression that the Security Officer was part of that, since at the end, he is referred to as an other by Durandal in that final soliloquy.

No, me neither. I'm imagining that this is something that could happen in the Infinity universe some time between the end of that game and the closure of that universe. Although below I change that and suggest that all three parties escaped the closure, but remained separate.

Unless the Speaker arrived with the Traveler, though, there's little reason to suspect him of being that entity, and if he was, what was he doing of significance between his arriving in this universe and the Traveler arriving at Earth?

Wake me when you need me, and all that kind of stuff. Not like it wasn't done in the Marathon story arc.

Well... yes and no.

It makes more sense if the end of the Marathon Infinity universe is the disrupting force that propels events in the Destiny universe-- Durandal/Thoth, the SO, and the W'rkncacnter all escape the closure into the Destiny universe. Durandal instinctively seeks out the Earth in this universe due to his unending obsession with humanity.

Yes, this. There seems to be some truth behind the idea of the Darkness pursuing the Traveller over great distances, so from those considerations it's not a huge stretch to think interdimensionally. Originally I had thought that the Traveller was eons in the process of keeping the Light (and life itself) alive here and there throughout the universe by way of uplift efforts against the Darkness, but the idea of the W'rkncacnter pursuing our heroes to Destiny's Earth is pretty compelling.

The W'rkncacnter also arrive and pursue him to Earth, on the way collecting such evil allies as it can: the Hive, the Fallen, etc.

The efforts of "the darkness" disable the Traveler and it goes dark, with only its cyborg emissary, the Speaker (Security Officer) to speak and act for it.

Bingo.

[snip]

Especially with all the fighting between those factions, I have a hard time seeing what unifies them against humanity. Still hoping for some manifestation of the Darkness to actually align them in gameplay, like the Flood did for all bodies in Halo.

Well, I'm not sure we know they are unified against humanity. They are unified against the Traveler. They followed it here. I don't think they have a beef with humanity. I think they have a beef with the Traveler, and the Traveler basically made defending it a quid pro quo for all the cool technology it gave humans.

Of course, I could be wrong with all of this-- if humanity has no colonists until after the Traveler arrives, then the enemies could still be returning colonists, but then probably the source of the corruption is just the Darkness itself, and not the Traveler. In that simpler case, it's the Darkness that has a beef with the Traveler-- and only with humanity by extension.

It's not as if the process of resurrecting the long dead in order to give them super powers ever turns out really well in the long term.

Never, really.

~m

I get the idea that the Speaker is a human (or at least was) that is "speaking for" the Traveler, not the traveler itself.

Right.

If one imagines Marathon Infinity's universe ending not just with the fusion of Durandal and Thoth, but also the Security Officer, then the interpretation of the Traveler in this universe being that entity could be made to make some kind of sense.

Hmm... I always thought Durandal/Thoth fusing was the beginning of one entity. I never got the impression that the Security Officer was part of that, since at the end, he is referred to as an other by Durandal in that final soliloquy.

Unless the Speaker arrived with the Traveler, though, there's little reason to suspect him of being that entity, and if he was, what was he doing of significance between his arriving in this universe and the Traveler arriving at Earth?

Wake me when you need me, and all that kind of stuff. Not like it wasn't done in the Marathon story arc.

It makes more sense if the end of the Marathon Infinity universe is the disrupting force that propels events in the Destiny universe-- Durandal/Thoth, the SO, and the W'rkncacnter all escape the closure into the Destiny universe. Durandal instinctively seeks out the Earth in this universe due to his unending obsession with humanity.

Yes, this. There seems to be some truth behind the idea of the Darkness pursuing the Traveller over great distances, so from those considerations it's not a huge stretch to think interdimensionally. Originally I had thought that the Traveller was eons in the process of keeping the Light (and life itself) alive here and there throughout the universe by way of uplift efforts against the Darkness, but the idea of the W'rkncacnter pursuing our heroes to Destiny's Earth is pretty compelling.

The W'rkncacnter also arrive and pursue him to Earth, on the way collecting such evil allies as it can: the Hive, the Fallen, etc.

The efforts of "the darkness" disable the Traveler and it goes dark, with only its cyborg emissary, the Speaker (Security Officer) to speak and act for it.

Bingo.

Personally my own interpretation is that all the forces aligned with the Darkness are actually returning human colonists, corrupted by the darkness and coming home to roost. It explains their interest in the Earth, the fact that all are roughly bipedal in shape. Perhaps the Traveler even made them into what they are, and they are seeking revenge. Perhaps they are the end product of the process begun by the Traveler when he arrived at Earth, having followed the paths of their outgoing colonists like breadcrumbs in the forest.

Most of this is akin to some ideas that have occurred to me as well, particularly focusing on the bipedal physiology. It seems strange that each of the races have such different philosophies, though. The Fallen seem to praise the scaveneged technology and remnants of whatever civilization begot the Servitors (but who else do we know that's round and floaty?). Meanwhile, the Hive seem driven by black magic, almost. My impression is that it's greed for the Cabal, though there's been little I'm aware of that argues in any particular direction for them. And the Vex are a pretty big question mark, as well.

Especially with all the fighting between those factions, I have a hard time seeing what unifies them against humanity. Still hoping for some manifestation of the Darkness to actually align them in gameplay, like the Flood did for all bodies in Halo.

It's not as if the process of resurrecting the long dead in order to give them super powers ever turns out really well in the long term.

Never, really.

~m

But the last line about us being Destiny. And now we're in Destiny. It's like that was his last statement to us before the collapse and the escape!

I could be convinced to buy the bit about Durandal escaping to another part of the multiverse, as much of a stretch as it is. An alternate timeline from the one in which he was conceived, say.

But that means the OG Guardian, the Marathon's Security Officer, ought to exist in Destiny's universe/timestream, as well, since he(you) is present in the final moments.

It's an interesting thought. It would be a pretty sweet cameo.

He could even be the Speaker, no?

I get the idea that the Speaker is a human (or at least was) that is "speaking for" the Traveler, not the traveler itself.

If one imagines Marathon Infinity's universe ending not just with the fusion of Durandal and Thoth, but also the Security Officer, then the interpretation of the Traveler in this universe being that entity could be made to make some kind of sense.

Unless the Speaker arrived with the Traveler, though, there's little reason to suspect him of being that entity, and if he was, what was he doing of significance between his arriving in this universe and the Traveler arriving at Earth?

It makes more sense if the end of the Marathon Infinity universe is the disrupting force that propels events in the Destiny universe-- Durandal/Thoth, the SO, and the W'rkncacnter all escape the closure into the Destiny universe. Durandal instinctively seeks out the Earth in this universe due to his unending obsession with humanity.

The W'rkncacnter also arrive and pursue him to Earth, on the way collecting such evil allies as it can: the Hive, the Fallen, etc.

The efforts of "the darkness" disable the Traveler and it goes dark, with only its cyborg emissary, the Speaker (Security Officer) to speak and act for it.

Personally my own interpretation is that all the forces aligned with the Darkness are actually returning human colonists, corrupted by the darkness and coming home to roost. It explains their interest in the Earth, the fact that all are roughly bipedal in shape. Perhaps the Traveler even made them into what they are, and they are seeking revenge. Perhaps they are the end product of the process begun by the Traveler when he arrived at Earth, having followed the paths of their outgoing colonists like breadcrumbs in the forest.

It's not as if the process of resurrecting the long dead in order to give them super powers ever turns out really well in the long term.

Seriously, I would be totally cool with that.

But the last line about us being Destiny. And now we're in Destiny. It's like that was his last statement to us before the collapse and the escape!

I could be convinced to buy the bit about Durandal escaping to another part of the multiverse, as much of a stretch as it is. An alternate timeline from the one in which he was conceived, say.

But that means the OG Guardian, the Marathon's Security Officer, ought to exist in Destiny's universe/timestream, as well, since he(you) is present in the final moments.

It's an interesting thought. It would be a pretty sweet cameo.

He could even be the Speaker, no?

I've always wanted to see what "...grafted to machines your makers did not understand" would look like. I mean, the Speaker is the only character wearing a mask in the tower, right? Could be he's seen some shit, been kicking around for ages. Probably seriously beat up after all that violence over all that time. Now he's just kind of existing as a zen master of ass-kicking, guiding new generations of warriors onto the path. And his unique connection to the Traveller would make perfect sense. Likewise the Traveller's sense of duty to humanity.

But it's got to be a lot of wishful thinking.

Maybe.

~m

The Collapse, you say?

O.O

why did I never connect those?
also note to self, remember, Marathon should be moved to your top free-time priority

Meh. I don't think Durandal survived the collapse.

The Traveller is Durandal's ghost.

Durandal's ghost or Durandal's Ghost?

O.O