Just wanted your guys input after seeing all this discussion. Sure there are other reviews, but I like to hear your guys perspective on things.

Graphics look sweet, but hows the story?

I'm still early. It's good so far. Interesting. I want to see where it goes. Arthur Morgan (the character you play) doesn't have a whole lot going yet. There are hints all over that he's questioning the sort of life he's leading. We'll see if that goes anywhere.

Dutch is a really interesting character. His voice actor is great and plays him perfectly. He's super compelling as a charismatic leader of this gang that feel like they're mostly doing right by people and just searching for the promise of freedom.

Is eating/gathering getting in the way of you having a good time?

It doesn't really seem super necessary, so no. But, even if it was, I don't think it would, personally. I am really enjoying engaging with those systems. I love hunting and fishing, and the fact that you are doing those things to provide food for your camp makes it compelling in a way that it hasn't been in most other games (Like Far Cry or the recent Assassin's Creed games).

I like spending time in camp, sitting by the camp fire, chatting with the gang members, listening to people sing or just talk.

I am really loving the slower pace of this game. Getting around the world is like 90% of the game. It's a lot of long rides through pretty country, and I love it. I think a lot of folks are going to be put off by that stuff--it's a game that refuses to get out of it's own way. More than most other games, it demands to be played at its pace, and if you fight that, I imagine it will get very frustrating very quickly.

Do you feel like an outlaw?

Absolutely. I don't know how much it really matters in the end, but they set it up well enough to make it feel like it's necessary to sort of lay low and avoid being witness doing bad things. It seems like as the game goes on, you can ignore that stuff more and more, but early there is definitely a tension there, even if it's ultimately a sort of fake one.

I played the first hour of RDR1 for the first time the other day.

It's been interesting so far but I wouldn't say any of it was "fun."

Well I though megaman 11 looked like ass, but when you see it in motion it’s ok. Sometimes you never know how you’ll feel about a game till you play it.

My point is that I played 50 minutes past when Hulk found RDR1 fun without finding it fun. Tastes differ.

I played the first hour of RDR1 for the first time the other day.

It's been interesting so far but I wouldn't say any of it was "fun."

Well I though megaman 11 looked like ass, but when you see it in motion it’s ok. Sometimes you never know how you’ll feel about a game till you play it.

It's not a big deal. Games have to ship. Deadlines have to be met.

Stop acting like Game Devs don't know how to look after themselves.

It's a big deal if the industry is regularly churning through talent stunting the growth of the industry as more experience devs because they, checks notes, "want a better quality of life".

If the only people who make games end up as worn out husks of humans, I both think the product suffers and that it's simply not worth it.

Guys, it's Rockstar. They made the most profitable media title of all time. If they don't have the political/financial clout to demand better working conditions, I don't see who does.

And as for the product suffering...

The quality of a game like RDR2 is hardly comparable to anything else because so few games are made at that scope over 7 years by massive teams. It's pointless to point at review scores and act like that means anything.

It's been interesting so far but I wouldn't say any of it was "fun."

Except Horizon Zero Dawn, which has virtually no filler quests in the story (except that whole Dervahl questline, if you want to get technical). Or God of War, which, while not fully open world, was filled with tons of fun-focused content. Or Spider-man, which, ya know, Spider-man.

I will be totally 100% honest: I didn't really enjoy much of my time with Horizon Zero dawn. There were STORY moments that got to me, but the game itself wasn't engaging to me.

Sounds like you were approaching it like one of those Tearblast Toddlers that hang around these parts (cough). The game is super fun gameplay-wise if you use the dozen tools or so that become available to you. Starting it on Hard difficulty helped me enjoy the gameplay even more, because you’re constantly having to readjust your strategy as the fight gets worse, or you discover enemy weaknesses or strategies. I love Witcher 3, but it’s definitely one of the less “fun” open world games. HZD completely fixed that one nagging issue for me, and the story starts off strong, but somehow constantly gets better and better. I definitely recommend that you push through. You can beat the main story in about 30 hours or so, 50 with side quests (which all help flesh out the world, cultures, politics, etc.), and maybe 55 with collectibles and viewpoints, which often tell some great stories too.

There are animations which can be speed up, but everything is animated and a good chunk of time is spent waiting for your dude to do shit.

However, I consider all of that stuff skippable. I do not need to skin animals, I do not need to cook meat. I don't even really need to eat. I don't need to loot bodies. I can usually press A to run.

That stuff with the annoying animations I consider supplementary, and if I find myself becoming bored with it, I just loot one guy and leave. Nbd.

It’s slow. Like really slow. There is an animation for literally everything. No skipping them. There are meters to manage. I don’t know how intensive that will be. Walk speed is slow.

This really does feel like a game that’s not meant to be “fun” in the traditional way, but is designed to be an experience that you sink into.

It works for me (so far). This is very much how I played The Witcher 3. I can see lots of people not liking it. If you’re not into that stuff, the game will absolutely feel like it’s just getting in its own way, I think. If you fight this game’s pace, you will absolutely hate it.

A good test—how did you feel about the unskippable animations for skinning animals in the first game? Because that is cranked up to eleven.

The world is immersive, but it's still the same GTA3 format we have been playing for nearly 20 years. Open world, steal horses and kill dudes, get wanted, evade the cops, go to a big F on the map for Frank's missions, which launches a small standalone cutscene and a minor story which has humourous and dramatic elements. You shoot the same as you always shoot.

You still have to go to an ammunation or whatever for bullets and shit, the store for other stuff.

As for eating: it so far doesn't matter much. It says it does, but I don't do it very often. I sleep when I want to go to the bathroom or grab a drink. If I didn't eat or sleep basically nothing happens.

There was one point when I had a 2 hour long phone call, and just parked my guy on top of a train and didn't eat or sleep for like 5 game days. I then completed a mission; no major effect.

You really do feel like an outlaw. One of the first things you do is rob a train, which is totally boss, and you get a choice on whether to spare the witnesses or threaten them or kill em. I shot em all because we were trying to lay low.

Lots of good fun in the game. Killing dudes after ambushing their hideouts and stuff. It's easy as butts, like most GTA games, but stupid behaviour will get you wasted.

It's a game that's so fun, you WANT to do the extra stuff just to stretch it out. I want to hunt the bear, not for any reason other than viciously murdering and butchering one of God's creatures, and to maybe spend more time with the game. I almost never feel this way about a game.

Bias: I love westerns and cowboys and shit.

EDIT: I will say the prologue is more boring than it is fun. Lots of tutorial, slogging through oppressive forests and waist deep snow with more story than fun. I actually don't know how they left that thing in because I was considering it a 7.5/10 game with a low mark being the plodding pacing and few and far between moments of fun.

The very moment the prologue is done and you set up camp in the real world, it's right up to 9-10/10. Fun wherever you want it, however you want it. The prologue is just much more dull. Bad first impression, but if you get through the first few hours (!) you'll love the game.

By the way, this isn't the acquired taste thing of Destiny, where if you buy into the systems it's fun. It's more like, if you wait in this 1 minute line, you get to ride Pirates of the Caribbean. Except Pirates is 35 minutes long. So it's really almost nothing in the grand scheme of things. That's why the reviewers love the game and initial reactions are sometimes tepid. They think the line is the game.

But again, why the hell would Rockstar leave that line in?

Except Horizon Zero Dawn, which has virtually no filler quests in the story (except that whole Dervahl questline, if you want to get technical). Or God of War, which, while not fully open world, was filled with tons of fun-focused content. Or Spider-man, which, ya know, Spider-man.

I will be totally 100% honest: I didn't really enjoy much of my time with Horizon Zero dawn. There were STORY moments that got to me, but the game itself wasn't engaging to me.

While I understand his struggle having a kid/time management, that doesn't mean it cannot be fun to other people. You can have fun by being immersed in a huge world, even if its slow. Perspective is key.

Also I asked for DBO people opinions, not the rest of the worlds, and you just gave me a twitter reaction.

Don't hate on the game because of the practices you are against.

Hulk is a giant fan of Red Dead 1. He said he'd played 2 for 4.5 hours and had not had fun yet. He had fun in the first 10 minutes of RD1. That has nothing to do with kids or anything else I talk about.

I've been playing four and a half hours and haven't had any fun. 10 minutes into RD1 I was having fun. https://t.co/ZYcbsWgxI6

— Film Crit Hulk (@FilmCritHULK) October 26, 2018

Just like every other stupid open world game nowadays.

Except Horizon Zero Dawn, which has virtually no filler quests in the story (except that whole Dervahl questline, if you want to get technical). Or God of War, which, while not fully open world, was filled with tons of fun-focused content. Or Spider-man, which, ya know, Spider-man.

Also I asked for DBO people opinions, not the rest of the worlds, and you just gave me a twitter reaction.

Don't hate on the game because of the practices you are against.

I've been playing four and a half hours and haven't had any fun. 10 minutes into RD1 I was having fun. https://t.co/ZYcbsWgxI6

— Film Crit Hulk (@FilmCritHULK) October 26, 2018

Just like every other stupid open world game nowadays.

Similarly, in my experience coding is the type of work where more can be done during sustained periods of focus than when you break it up. I suspect if crunch didn’t exist, some would do it anyway.

I write hot garbage if I code for longer than 6 hours a day. I've worked 80-120 weeks before and looking back on it, it was such a mistake.

In the past 4-5 years I've focused on managing my hours, estimating appropriately, communicating effectively with stakeholders, and taking care of myself. My code has become easier to maintain and I no longer have nightmares about late night emergencies.

The myth that a bunch of exhausted coders would somehow out perform healthy alert coders is one of the oddest things ingrained in our society.

I'm not meaning to evoke some myth about exhausted coders outperforming rested coders (a myth I've never heard of).

I'm referring to the fact that when I've worked on coding problems, often I've realized it would take me more time to get back into the headspace I'm in, where all the variables are clearly visualized, than it would to continue working until I've figured out the problem.

Conversely, and in support of your point, there are those mornings where you wake up after a good night's sleep with the solution fully formed, as if you'd dreamt it.

I took what you said and expanded/twisted it. You got STRAWMANNED!

I’m totally okay with that. If that’s the cost for better working conditions, it’s a small one to pay. But that will absolutely be brought up to sway public opinion and paint the unions as the bad guys that made your games more expensive.

Any interest I had in Red Dead II was killed when the 100 hour story came out, and their PR mitigation was contradicted by accounts.

This is a problem in the film industry as well, and why we fought so hard for reasonable turn around times with IATSE's new basic contract negotiation. This stuff literally kills people and shortens lives.

The only way this will change is if developers unionize, or if people stop buying the games of abusive studios. Clearly people don't care (Detroit was Quantic Dream's fastest selling game), but I do ask anyone here to consider not supporting this type of behavior in the industry.

I realize it's hard to know exactly which TV shows, Films, and Games rely on abusive work hours. But if you do read or hear something, please do not simply ignore it. Your life will go on without one piece of entertainment, and you may help in a small way to make other's lives better.

I agree completely.

I don't think not buying RDR2 really helps anybody. I think it's probably going to be profitable no matter what.

The only thing that can be done is to encourage the actual creators-- the artists, designers, programmers, engineers, animators, testers, VO and mocap actors, rather than publishers and shareholders of developers and publishers, to unionize so we can have a more reasonable assurance that our money is going towards the people who actually make the things we enjoy.

Graphics look sweet, but hows the story?

Is eating/gathering getting in the way of you having a good time?

Do you feel like an outlaw?