I wasn’t suggesting tracking a cheese. I was suggesting using a method similar to challenge modes to make not!cheese completions be more rewarding.

Challenge modes are cheesed all the time. Gauntlet anyone? People will find the cheese!

I hear there's a boss at the end.

F*cker.

Take expected methodology in encounter completion and add additional rewards for not cheezing. Obviously, that is an extreme investment in testing.

If Bungie can track whether a cheese was used there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place. They could just put the game in a failure state if the game knew you just cheesed.

In short, ask yourself how a player would overcome a problem. If the solution is within them (better strategy, more practice, etc) then that is good. If the solution is without them (power level number going up, a more powerful gun) then that is not as desirable.

Something to consider. "Cheezing" is basically the end-state of what you say is a better approach. Strategies that are just so much better than others that it becomes "the one way." That becomes very unfun in an activity that requires you to group up with 5 others; it increases the chances you'll be forced to conform to something that doesn't allow you to play the way you want to play. Difficulty is effectively a "cheez" deterrent. Not saying its a great one, but I think that's the argument for its presence.

Only an issue because rewards are extrinsic. Nobody would cheese if it meant making the game less fun.

Honestly very untrue. "Cheezing" is its own form of fun for some.

How does that contradict what I said in the last sentence?

In short, ask yourself how a player would overcome a problem. If the solution is within them (better strategy, more practice, etc) then that is good. If the solution is without them (power level number going up, a more powerful gun) then that is not as desirable.

Something to consider. "Cheezing" is basically the end-state of what you say is a better approach. Strategies that are just so much better than others that it becomes "the one way." That becomes very unfun in an activity that requires you to group up with 5 others; it increases the chances you'll be forced to conform to something that doesn't allow you to play the way you want to play. Difficulty is effectively a "cheez" deterrent. Not saying its a great one, but I think that's the argument for its presence.

Only an issue because rewards are extrinsic. Nobody would cheese if it meant making the game less fun.

Honestly very untrue. "Cheezing" is its own form of fun for some.

But yes, the only reason it is a problem is because rewards are extrinsic. But that's the kind of game this is and that is never changing. So rather than dismiss by claiming it could be avoided by taking action no one is going to take...what action could be taken given that we actually have the issue?

Ftfy

I’m on PC anyway

In short, ask yourself how a player would overcome a problem. If the solution is within them (better strategy, more practice, etc) then that is good. If the solution is without them (power level number going up, a more powerful gun) then that is not as desirable.

Something to consider. "Cheezing" is basically the end-state of what you say is a better approach. Strategies that are just so much better than others that it becomes "the one way." That becomes very unfun in an activity that requires you to group up with 5 others; it increases the chances you'll be forced to conform to something that doesn't allow you to play the way you want to play. Difficulty is effectively a "cheez" deterrent. Not saying its a great one, but I think that's the argument for its presence.

Only an issue because rewards are extrinsic. Nobody would cheese if it meant making the game less fun.

In short, ask yourself how a player would overcome a problem. If the solution is within them (better strategy, more practice, etc) then that is good. If the solution is without them (power level number going up, a more powerful gun) then that is not as desirable.

Something to consider. "Cheezing" is basically the end-state of what you say is a better approach. Strategies that are just so much better than others that it becomes "the one way." That becomes very unfun in an activity that requires you to group up with 5 others; it increases the chances you'll be forced to conform to something that doesn't allow you to play the way you want to play. Difficulty is effectively a "cheez" deterrent. Not saying its a great one, but I think that's the argument for its presence.

What is the prime engram exploit? It's a way to get lots of prime engrams? How is it done? Asking for a friend.

There was a way of keeping around the prime engram buff by not picking up engrams. One of the Dreaming City lost sectors had a pretty high chance of dropping a prime engram. So teams would run it to the boss, kill it. Possible get a prime engram and then wipe/reset it and do it again. Eventually they would build up a pool of prime engrams to turn in bumping up their light level faster.

From Bungie, Quote...

Prime Engrams: An exploit was discovered this weekend where players could earn Prime Engrams at a rapid pace using the Prime Attunement buff. At this time, Prime Engrams are designed to grant small power gains over time. Acquiring large amounts of Prime Engrams in a short timeframe reduces the frequency in which you earn Prime Engrams as you continue to play the game. Some players who have used this exploit heavily may find that Prime Engrams will not appear for the next two to three weeks.

As such, this will provide a very small short-term gain for those using this exploit, but have negative long-term effects for a player’s power progression. We are investigating a fix for this exploit. In the meantime, we highly recommend that players do not use this exploit.

Players who are earning Prime Engrams while playing through the game naturally will not be impacted by this issue in any form.

I'm not reading any more of this kind of thing though. That came perilously close to spoiling my blind status.

What platform are you on? You could always join DBO. We enjoy raids!

PS4. I'm lucky to have a team that raids most Friday nights, but life means I can't raid every week. Anyone if free to friend me on PSN, I'm Digital_Ronin there, just put DBO in the message.

D_P_Roberts

We could use more people after SOME OF US abandoned PS4 for suxxbox. :-p

What platform are you on? You could always join DBO. We enjoy raids!

PS4. I'm lucky to have a team that raids most Friday nights, but life means I can't raid every week. Anyone if free to friend me on PSN, I'm Digital_Ronin there, just put DBO in the message.

What is the prime engram exploit? It's a way to get lots of prime engrams? How is it done? Asking for a friend.

There was a way of keeping around the prime engram buff by not picking up engrams. One of the Dreaming City lost sectors had a pretty high chance of dropping a prime engram. So teams would run it to the boss, kill it. Possible get a prime engram and then wipe/reset it and do it again. Eventually they would build up a pool of prime engrams to turn in bumping up their light level faster.

I distinctly remember Luke Smith talking about how only 25% of people completed a raid in Destiny prior to Des2ny's release. They wanted that number higher. So why the change? Again, the solution is staring them right in the face: multiple light level difficulties!

I don't get this either. I remember the feedback about wanting to keep escalation protocol relevant after warmind. So what did they do, artificial difficulty through light level increase. Huh? That doesn't make sense. Attaching a powerful reward to it, sure. Updating it to provide year 2 gear, that works too.

The artificial difficulty based on light level is one problem. I've only gotten one Eater of Worlds clear due to a dwindling player population just a month after launch, when those still playing in my clan were high enough level to clear the raid.

What platform are you on? You could always join DBO. We enjoy raids!

The fact that the people who actually cleared the raid used the prime engram exploit, the one thing Bungie was "punishing" people over is quite telling. It makes me wonder who the audience of this game really is? Is it an enthusiast like me or the hard core, content creators, and twitch viewers?

What is the prime engram exploit? It's a way to get lots of prime engrams? How is it done? Asking for a friend.

Raids are one of the unique things to Destiny. To slowly alienate a large portion of the enthusiast community to appease the content creators is a self defeating strategy. Eventually the casuals will leave, then the enthusiasts, and then content creators complain and leave because they have no audience.

I distinctly remember Luke Smith talking about how only 25% of people completed a raid in Destiny prior to Des2ny's release. They wanted that number higher. So why the change? Again, the solution is staring them right in the face: multiple light level difficulties!

The artificial difficulty based on light level is one problem. The fact that the people who actually cleared the raid used the prime engram exploit, the one thing Bungie was "punishing" people over, is quite telling. I've only gotten one Eater of Worlds clear due to a dwindling player population. Just a month after launch, when those still playing in my clan were high enough level to clear the raid, there weren't many people left interested in playing. It makes me wonder who the audience of this game really is? Is it an enthusiast like me or the hard core, content creators, and twitch viewers?

Then there are the more unforgiving mechanics. A system the enforces mistake free play rather than exciting strategies or creative problem solving. The token revive system would force wipes due to circumstance ("Sorry, I know I'm right next to you, but I can't revive you again.") Combined with really tight timing in places like the Spire of Stars (which I still haven't cleared) and my clan went from running sherpa raids in D1 to having set raid groups. They regrettably didn't want to allow new people in because it was just a pain trying to take a weak player through the raid and were lucky to have consistent clears themselves.

Raids are one of the unique things to Destiny. To slowly alienate a large portion of the enthusiast community to appease the content creators is a self defeating strategy. Eventually the casuals will leave, then the enthusiasts, and then content creators complain and leave because they have no audience.

There is nothing wrong with having difficult endgame content, but it must be approachable. Most enthusiasts aren't trying to be world's first, but they do want to get a raid clear and make it a fun part of their weekly ritual. It's the whole idea of having a normal raid for the enthusiast community and a prestiege for the hard core community. Remember when you got a raid down and you could chat about other things and joke instead of telling people to be quiet to hear the call outs?