When have they ever done that though? In D1 we didn't hear much of anything about The Dark Below or House of Wolves until they were close. In D2 we didn't hear anything about Curse of Osiris or Warmind until they were close.

The difference is one of expectations. We have four years of Destiny behind us now. We know what a Destiny expansion looks like, we have a sort of baseline of what we’ll get: new story missions, new gear, some new strikes, a new raid. Except now they’ve said “we’re doing something different this time around.” Only they haven’t told us what we’ll actually be getting. That’s fine, but it’s at least a little busted that they haven’t told us anything but also totally went ahead and let people give them forty dollars for it with no information.

I already spent the money, so I know my argument is a little hollow. I have enough faith that they’ll deliver something enjoyable, and I’m invested enough in Destiny to pony up the cash sight unseen. I’d also buy it even if everyone said it was terrible. What an I going to do, not play new Destiny content? I don’t think so!

My hope is that the main difference between something like Warmind and something like Black Armory is that one had a new Destination while the other doesn't. It looks like we'll be getting new story, new weapons, new multiplayer maps, new Crucible modes, new Tower events, and new Raid Lairs with these next three DLCs. I'd be fine with that as long as the current eight Destinations see enough changes to make me want to keep playing.

What I don't want is storyless expansions that just add harder challenges that I need to build 6+ man teams to defeat. EP is not really my favorite thing in Destiny... and not even because it takes lucking into a big group who wants to beat it. More... it's either too hard and I fail to get anything, or I do join up with a big group and it is too easy and I get rewards without really even having to play.

I think the Solstice of Heroes was a better model where there were achievable goals that kept me playing variations on encounters that were a bit harder but not so much so that they started bordering on that impossibe ----> too easy divide.

As I said in our conversation the other night, I think there's lots of potential there, if they really focus on making repeatable things to do that are actually fun, but I didn't get any indication of what the annual pass will actually get me, still.

And most importantly, this:
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=152243

And then there is this great tidbit recently:
https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=154612
(Mind you, that's even after some mild mannered ribbing/disrespect)

Who has ears to hear?

What we choose to do with these secrets is another thing

Guys, should I get the annual pass and forsaken, or just forsaken? Someone tell me what to do.

Are you positive you are going to get the annual pass in the future? If so save $5 and get the bundle. Otherwise wait and pay $35 when you decide.

All makes sense.

But that goes against the selling point does it not? If the Black Armory weapons aren’t ‘better’ why pay for them? Just a silly idea in general.

I love the idea of Penumbra though: a return to where secrets were secret and it’s up to you and your friends Reddit to find them on Day 1.

FTFY

You’re just sad that reddit finds all the secrets now and not HBO… :-p

Well, duh.

The same thing that happens now if you don't have any expansions and someone else you're matched with does.

Which is what? That's why I asked the question. I do not know.

everyone has the content on their drive, just not everyone can use it.

everyone has to be running the same version of the software.

they can see you wearing and using gear that is locked for them

All makes sense.

But that goes against the selling point does it not? If the Black Armory weapons aren’t ‘better’ why pay for them? Just a silly idea in general.

I love the idea of Penumbra though: a return to where secrets were secret and it’s up to you and your friends Reddit to find them on Day 1.

FTFY

You’re just sad that reddit finds all the secrets now and not HBO… :-p

All makes sense.

But that goes against the selling point does it not? If the Black Armory weapons aren’t ‘better’ why pay for them? Just a silly idea in general.

I love the idea of Penumbra though: a return to where secrets were secret and it’s up to you and your friends Reddit to find them on Day 1.

FTFY

I 10,000% guarantee you that Penumbra is the direct result of the talk that they had with the Streamers.
The whole thing sounds like it was made with the phrase "our viewers" being heavily repeated by the streamers...

But like all things, any trickled-out secret will be discovered and solved within a day or two, and the streamers will make ten bloated videos about it anyway before they go back to nagging about a lack of content.

PS, watch for the coming videos from PvP streamers who can no longer milk Trials runs.

All makes sense.

But that goes against the selling point does it not? If the Black Armory weapons aren’t ‘better’ why pay for them? Just a silly idea in general.

I love the idea of Penumbra though: a return to where secrets were secret and it’s up to you and your friends Reddit to find them on Day 1.

FTFY

All makes sense.

But that goes against the selling point does it not? If the Black Armory weapons aren’t ‘better’ why pay for them? Just a silly idea in general.

We're not going to be paying for just the weapons, it's activities, and story events, and a new raid lair. Plus this is how Destiny has always been. New guns, no matter how powerful they say they are in game or in the marketing (marketing for pretty much every new expansion has including a phrase similar to 'powerful new rewards') are still balanced against all other guns in the game. I'm sure the Black Armory guns will probably have some new perks and some new concepts but they are at least trying to keep a balanced game so they will never be purposefully more powerful than old guns.

But that goes against the selling point does it not? If the Black Armory weapons aren’t ‘better’ why pay for them? Just a silly idea in general.

I love the idea of Penumbra though: a return to where secrets were secret and it’s up to you and your friends to find them.

The actual examples of pay to win are stuff like the weapons you get in an expansion are actually more powerful than the previous guns. The worst pay to win games even let you buy stuff like damage buffs for money.

All PvP maps and modes have always been open to all D2 players regardless of expansion ownership status.

This is false.
Crucible maps/modes have only been available to all D2 owners post-Warmind.

Didn't you see the little asterisk in my post? ;-)

All I see now is your misunderstanding of the word "always". ;)

Somebody get Speed a harp, cuz he's a Lyre!

All PvP maps and modes have always been open to all D2 players regardless of expansion ownership status.

This is false.
Crucible maps/modes have only been available to all D2 owners post-Warmind.

Didn't you see the little asterisk in my post? ;-)

All PvP maps and modes have always* been open to all D2 players regardless of expansion ownership status.

* Since Warmind

This is false.
Crucible maps/modes have only been available to all D2 owners post-Warmind.

I'm pretty sure, from what little was shown anyway, that it's just a small expansion/DLC/whatever, akin to CoO or Warmind, in which the story is you discovering the Black Armory. There probably WILL be new guns, but only in the same way that there were new guns in CoO or Warmind.