And would that even be possible to apply to individual fire teams in a public space?

Probably depends on the modifier. They're using the attrition modifier right now, so apparently that works. And although renown seems to modify damage dealt/taken, it's at a (presumably) constant setting per renown stack. My guess is that things which modify damage conditionally (like grounded, or an elemental singe) are harder to do. Just a hunch.

I have to admit, though, I only even thought of doing this because renown was completely wrecking me the first day I played with it on-- because I had a leftover quest to get Valkyrie kills on Mars and I was attempting to do it during EP and public events with renown stacking, and I was getting killed before I could get a single kill. It was annoying.

Oh, yeah. Public events with renown active are gnarly. In my groups, we learned to avoid them once we'd built up a couple of stacks.

If you're primarily focused on the quest and not actually trying to gain renown, you could lose it between events. Get killed on purpose (bonus: this is easier to do with renown!) or just fast travel and lose it all at once.

So finally yes, Renown in lost sectors is easy to exploit but the exploit is probably not really worth it, as it means spending 2x the time for two players getting the same reward. If there's a player who really wants the reward but is struggling with finishing a sector solo, you can always do this.

That's exactly why I never viewed this as a "real" exploit. Even in the scenario of helping a struggling player get through the lost sector, it's only putting them on level footing (at best) with other players.

the people who will end up 'exploiting' this loophole are going to be people who would have reached Level 50 anyway.

This is definitely it. I hit 50 yesterday and if I had anyone online I probably would have been dumping renown to help people who were behind. I mean, I was dumping renown anyway just trying to grind out Heroic Public Event clears because I did my first 30 Ranks on my Titan without a full Anti-Extinction set.

Yeah totally, exploiting it now is not a big deal at all. We were more talking about they'd have to make some changes if they were going to expand the renown system to go to higher caps with even higher rewards.

I'd say make renown fireteam wide. No cap.

As renown goes up, rewards grow exponentially.
As renown goes up, your power goes down exponentially.

Whenever someone in your fireteam dies, you lose renown.

How much you lose scales exponentially with how much you have. So maybe 0-4 a death loses 1, 5-9 loses 2, 10-14 loses 4, 15-19 loses 8, 20-24 loses 16, and 25+ you lose it all.

Now things are interesting. You can add people to your fireteam which will make lost sectors easier, but you run the risk of losing your own renown if you teammate dies. Likewise you can build up as much as you want, but run the risk of getting greedy and wiping it if someone dies. You'd then have to determine the right level of risk, since because of exponential reward growth it's always better in theory to get as much as possible, but in practice you'd have to contend with the danger.

As it is now, you just get 5 without really thinking and run a lost sector. This way there could be some decision making.

Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand your exploit.

It's individual. We went into a lost sector last night - 2 people had 5 Renown, one had 3. The two that had 5 got 10 tokens, the 3 got 6. How do you exploit that?

If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

Ah, I see now. (I can be a little naive sometimes when thinking about ways to break the game. :) )

Easy solution: difficulty is set for ALL characters based on the HIGHEST Renown in the group. Incentivizes standardizing. :)

I don’t really see it as a problem. As it is now, you can run with 2 others who have no renown who can just wreck the lost sector. But they don’t get bonus tokens.

The problem is the player with 5 renown gets bonus tokens but didn't actually do anything, so it completely removes the gameplay modification renown is making. As far as I can tell, the Renown 5 player doesn't even have to shoot anything. (Although maybe they do? I did not test this precise scenario, I was just looking to see if having a low renown player in the instance tearing things up disqualified the chest from dropping the extra tokens for the high-renown player or not... and it doesn't.)

You don't have to shoot anything to get tokens (at whatever level renown you're at). I was running some Lost Sectors with Korny last night, and mostly we were together the whole time, but at the end, he went to kill something on the way back to the sector; I didn't stop, because I was already at level 5. By the time he got down into the Lost Sector, I'd killed the boss. I just waited down there for him, to keep things from despawning, and when he came in, he just looted it - no shooting required. (We didn't do it to 'cheat' - it's just how it worked out, that one run.)

It's definitely more work for the person in the Lost Sector, though - not sure I understand what the advantage really is. (If you've got the extra time to be killing multiple things and benefitting from all of them, you don't really need the boost in the first place.)

That is: the people who will end up 'exploiting' this loophole are going to be people who would have reached Level 50 anyway.

Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand your exploit.

It's individual. We went into a lost sector last night - 2 people had 5 Renown, one had 3. The two that had 5 got 10 tokens, the 3 got 6. How do you exploit that?

If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

Ah, I see now. (I can be a little naive sometimes when thinking about ways to break the game. :) )

Easy solution: difficulty is set for ALL characters based on the HIGHEST Renown in the group. Incentivizes standardizing. :)

I don’t really see it as a problem. As it is now, you can run with 2 others who have no renown who can just wreck the lost sector. But they don’t get bonus tokens.

The problem is the player with 5 renown gets bonus tokens but didn't actually do anything, so it completely removes the gameplay modification renown is making. As far as I can tell, the Renown 5 player doesn't even have to shoot anything. (Although maybe they do? I did not test this precise scenario, I was just looking to see if having a low renown player in the instance tearing things up disqualified the chest from dropping the extra tokens for the high-renown player or not... and it doesn't.)

If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

This works, did it the other day. Go into a LS with a mixed Renown group. The player with zero renown goes in and tears up the entire sector as usual; the renown 5 player goes in at the end and loots the chest.

Then you swap.

I have to admit, though, I only even thought of doing this because renown was completely wrecking me the first day I played with it on-- because I had a leftover quest to get Valkyrie kills on Mars and I was attempting to do it during EP and public events with renown stacking, and I was getting killed before I could get a single kill. It was annoying.

I was on a character that hadn't pledged-- but pledges are now account wide. I know why and I even agree with it, but this really meant I should have put that quest off until the Rally was over, and I had not thought that through, so it made playing very annoying until that was over.

Once off Mars, though... I started to enjoy doing a slow creep through Sectors. I don't like speedrunning, generally, so renown encourages a play style I already like. And unlike the chaotic public space on Mars with EP going on, enemies in sectors are basically territorial and defensive, so you can always retreat to safety before proceeding-- how aggressive you play is entirely up to you.

All the public spaces are more ordered than Mars because of EP, so they are far more manageable-- but it also does mean that you have to think about routes you take through the space, and whether you want to take on or avoid that yellow bar VIP enemy that's standing between you and the Sector you want to loot at renown 5.

So finally yes, Renown in lost sectors is easy to exploit but the exploit is probably not really worth it, as it means spending 2x the time for two players getting the same reward. If there's a player who really wants the reward but is struggling with finishing a sector solo, you can always do this.

The figuring on the amount of time each day assumes you can play each day.

Yup. Thank you for saying that. I wasn't planning on having to defend my assessment of how much time I have available (and I'm far from the busiest person I know, so if it's a chore for me, it's a chore for at least SOME others). Each day you can't play stacks that time on to some other day. Skip 2 or 3, and pretty soon you could be trying to stack a 3-4 hour session into one day.

Apologies; I didn't realize I was wording it in a way that made people feel like they had to justify their busy lives. You don't; 50 levels *is* a lot, and requires a significant amount of play in order to reach. And being absent for some of those 7 days definitely builds strain on the other ones. (My post also implies that even someone with an hour a day to play Destiny would be OKAY with doing nothing but farming tokens all week. That's also incorrect; that gets seriously boring, and it's not why most of us play in the first place.)

I guess the point of my post was that although it seems like a ridiculously high point you need to reach, if you break it down it's not quite as bad as it first seems. (I had tried to estimate the math before the week started; I wasn't sure if we were going to need 20 tokens per level, or 30 as some vendors require. I went with a worst-case scenario, and then calculated my climb rate in the last Iron Banner (which was recent enough that I could actually remember the numbers needed), and decided it wasn't going to be doable. (I reached the 35-level requirement for the ship in IB only by spending several hundred tokens above what I earned that week, tokens saved up from earlier IBs. Adding in those tokens, and then ANOTHER 15 levels, made me pretty sure earning the catalyst wasn't going to happen. When it turned out that the earn rate on faction tokens was much, much higher than the earn rate on IB tokens, I was relieved... but that made me lose sight of the fact that it's STILL a lot of hours. Sorry.)

The figuring on the amount of time each day assumes you can play each day.

Yup. Thank you for saying that. I wasn't planning on having to defend my assessment of how much time I have available (and I'm far from the busiest person I know, so if it's a chore for me, it's a chore for at least SOME others). Each day you can't play stacks that time on to some other day. Skip 2 or 3, and pretty soon you could be trying to stack a 3-4 hour session into one day.

I haven't tried it, but I've heard you can even switch to your kinetic or power weapon and your precision shots will still be lit up in your scope when you switch back to the Polaris Lance.

Yup, totally works. And you can even reload those weapons without losing your Polaris Lance streak. Super handy sometimes.

Unfortunately I think I’ll only be able to run it for one more day before I go out of state for a week, so I likely won’t hit 50 myself, which means that I’ll have to commit to Dead Orbit again next Faction Rally just for a handful of packages. :(

I'm in the same boat. The figuring on the amount of time each day assumes you can play each day. That's not the case for me in the summer. I wouldn't have any problem with this, but since they only are having 3 rallies, they're setting everyone who travels in the summer up to fail in getting all the catalysts.

We did a variety of lost sectors, many of which I never discovered.

This is one of the reasons I'm loving this. I haven't found any new ones this week, but I've played with a bunch of people who have. And that's awesome.

(If you consider 'farming' beneath you, or you hate doing something many times in a row (even when it's a multi-step process that actually varies quite a bit between cycles)... well, this isn't for you. But for the rest of us... it's doable.

Even Cody “Feed me from a silver platter” Miller has hit rank 50, and I never heard him complain about it once in the entire time that we’ve farmed together. And we haven’t done anything remotely “optimized” (if anything we’ve avoided hitting the same Lost sector more than once an hour or so).

And that’s why I haven’t complained. We did a variety of lost sectors, many of which I never discovered.

Unfortunately I think I’ll only be able to run it for one more day before I go out of state for a week, so I likely won’t hit 50 myself, which means that I’ll have to commit to Dead Orbit again next Faction Rally just for a handful of packages. :(

Message me if you want a solution to this problem.

I'm also willing to help in that regard. I'm hoping to finish by tomorrow night. I was going to work on my Xbox Hunter on Sunday and Monday, but she's only at rank 5, so hitting 50 isn't going to happen anyway.

Unfortunately I think I’ll only be able to run it for one more day before I go out of state for a week, so I likely won’t hit 50 myself, which means that I’ll have to commit to Dead Orbit again next Faction Rally just for a handful of packages. :(

Message me if you want a solution to this problem.

(If you consider 'farming' beneath you, or you hate doing something many times in a row (even when it's a multi-step process that actually varies quite a bit between cycles)... well, this isn't for you. But for the rest of us... it's doable.

Even Cody “Feed me from a silver platter” Miller has hit rank 50, and I never heard him complain about it once in the entire time that we’ve farmed together. And we haven’t done anything remotely “optimized” (if anything we’ve avoided hitting the same Lost sector more than once an hour or so).
Otter hit 50 on the third day, so yeh, it’s perfectly doable if you commit to it for at least an hour or two a day.

Unfortunately I think I’ll only be able to run it for one more day before I go out of state for a week, so I likely won’t hit 50 myself, which means that I’ll have to commit to Dead Orbit again next Faction Rally just for a handful of packages. :(

You need 50 levels, right? You have 7 days. That's an average of just over 7 per day.

There are several optimized tactics for maximizing your token earning, but a couple of them are obvious enough that many people stumbled on them before reading farming guides - which means we can probably say that anyone who really wanted to hit level 50 (whether or not they were short on time) could probably use one. Those methods earn coins at rates of about 100-120/hour (or 5-6 levels/hour).

If you spread your earnings out over the full week, you can take full advantage of the Faction Rally milestone every day - which gives you an extra 15 tokens/character (or more than 2 levels for folks with 3 characters), easily accomplishable during your normal token farming. (I mean, you get them anyway, if you're trying to maximize earning rates.)

What that means is, if you thought about the issue before Tuesday morning, you could devote about an hour a day this week to token farming, and end up at level 50 by Monday.

There are a whole bunch of people who hit level 50 before Wednesday's reset - they needed to play at least 10 hours on Tuesday to do that.

Those are the outside limits for hitting 50. (Least vs most work.)

If you've got a couple of long stretches on the weekend, you can easily finish.

I'm going to attempt to hit it on both Xbox and PS4 - made harder by the fact that I only have a single character on PS4. I have a life, so I might not get there - but I'm gonna try. :)

(If you consider 'farming' beneath you, or you hate doing something many times in a row (even when it's a multi-step process that actually varies quite a bit between cycles)... well, this isn't for you. But for the rest of us... it's doable.