I just don't think getting repeatedly 1-hit-killed by enemy supers and sniper rifles to be "fun" ;p

I think a lot of people dwell way too much on the frustrating end of this, and don't remember how much fun it is when you get to pull off something crazy. A lot of competitive players focus way too much on 1v1 battles, and not enough on the overall flow of the game. Sure, you killed me with a super and there was nothing I could have done about it, but I'll get you and 3 of your teammates when mine comes up. Everyone has opportunities for big plays, and whoever makes the most of theirs over the course of the game usually comes out on top. I find that way more exciting than the clinical style of play that things seem to be shifting towards.

I do get that, and even I would admit that it is a rush when you nail 4 enemies with a fist of havoc. But the sheer numbers at play all but guarantee that those moments will happen against you far more often than in your favor.

But there's a bigger issue. The rush from a cool super multikill is great, but do you know what's waaaay better? The rush from getting a huge killstreak through superior play. And all too often in Destiny, those moments are cut short because I get hit by an enemy's super. It's the Mario Kart school of design. A form of "rubber banding" within an FPS. And I'm not totally against that idea... but it's just taken to such an extreme in Destiny. Titanfall 2 does an amazing job of giving players opportunities to turn the tides or find moments of success against a superior enemy. But they are never the show-stopping, inescapable "win" buttons of Destiny's supers.

Nothing more than a personal opinion here, but I don't think Destiny's year 1 PvP had much that is worth recreating. It was a fairly mediocre PvP shooter compared to other modern FPS games, IMO.

Man, you crazy.

Maybe ;) But I also play a lot of Titanfall. That game gets so much right, it's tough for anything else to compete :)

You're not mad at the characters, you're mad at Bungie for letting you down. Now, it sounds like you're going out of your way to set yourself up for disappointment. Starting characters that were merely underutilized at a negative? You really do need a detox. :(

And yes, there's a difference between being mad at a studio and being mad at a character. You can easily be mad at both. I certainly am mad at 343 over both Halo 4's overall crappiness and the complete flip flopping idiocy that was the Halo 4 Didact. But you can also be just mad at a character. For instance, I thought Halo 3 was awesome but Halo 3's Prophet of Truth was a stupid turn from what appeared to be a devious, intelligent villain to a naive religious nut.

I'd advise you to not pin unrealistic expectations on Destiny 2. Enjoy it for what it will be. Don't ask it to be good and then demand it to also overcome your anger or disappointment or grudge or whatever this is that you have lingering from Destiny 1.

I totally hear what you're saying. Just for the sake of clarity, I should stress that I don't feel "angry" about any of it. This is all just the analytical "game critic" side of my brain trying to work out what kind of potential Destiny 2 has in a variety of ways.

As a Destiny player, I have totally made peace with what Destiny is (and what it isn't). As I already said, I no longer expect any form of satisfaction from Destiny's story or characters. And I'm ok with the that.

This whole train of thought I'm on is just my response to what Bungie is telling us and showing us. It is clear that they want to make the story and characters a more significant aspect of Destiny 2. The thoughts I'm having all surround the question of can Bungie make me care about Destiny's story and characters. If so, what would it take for that to happen?

If I jump into Destiny 2 and I find that the game's story and characters still fail to grab my interest, I will still enjoy the game just fine. I just think that'd be a shame from Bungie's perspective, because they so obviously want me, and all Destiny players, to care about that stuff.

And yes, there's a difference between being mad at a studio and being mad at a character. You can easily be mad at both. I certainly am mad at 343 over both Halo 4's overall crappiness and the complete flip flopping idiocy that was the Halo 4 Didact. But you can also be just mad at a character. For instance, I thought Halo 3 was awesome but Halo 3's Prophet of Truth was a stupid turn from what appeared to be a devious, intelligent villain to a naive religious nut.

I'd advise you to not pin unrealistic expectations on Destiny 2. Enjoy it for what it will be. Don't ask it to be good and then demand it to also overcome your anger or disappointment or grudge or whatever this is that you have lingering from Destiny 1.

I just watched the intro cutscene and the gameplay trailer for a 2nd time, and I literally cringed every single time Cayde said anything. Which is strange, because I've replayed a bunch of the TTK story missions and strikes in recent weeks, and he didn't bother me at all there. But with D2's marketing, they're clearly leaning on Cayde as "Mr comic relief", and I find it so lame that I get pulled out of what I'm watching every time I see him. This is just my own personal annoyance to get over, but it made me think about the characters of Destiny in a greater sense. And I think, for me, the fact that we're returning to the characters of D1 hurts D2 more than it helps.

I think the cutscenes we've seen so far look really cool! Great setup for a new game, exciting, climactic battle to kick things off. I thought the little intro story featuring Zavala was good... exactly the kind of thing we needed in D1. I only have 1 problem with it, and that's Zavala. I don't like him. Or Ikora, or Cayde, or Amanda... all the characters from D1 are just paper-cutouts in my mind. Skin-deep caricatures. The idea of spending more time with these characters is a turn off for me.

I found myself wishing I was watching a cast of new characters in these cutscenes. I would have no preexisting attachment to new characters, but in the case of Destiny's cast, D2 is actually starting at a negative.

I hope Bungie will be able to add enough value to these characters that they can overcome their weak introductions in D1. It is certainly possible. I just don't know how likely it is.

I find it funny that you would say this because you just said "all the characters from D1 are just paper-cutouts in my mind" So what is there to overcome? I literally knew nothing about Zavala before now. I just got an introduction to a guy that all I knew about him was that he was blue and a leader. Same goes for Ikora, I know nothing about her. I actually know a little bit about Cayde, but not much. I would be delighted to get more story on them and it would have to bypass any negative stuff other than "they don't have a story"

That's a totally fair point, and if the storytelling in Des2ny is strong enough I very well might come to the end of the game really loving these characters it's totally possible.

I think the place I'm coming from now is that starting fresh with new characters would be starting from "neutral". But the handling of the characters in Destiny 1 has pushed them into negative territory in my mind. I see Zavala and I just roll my eyes, because my brain already identifies him as a lame character... this is how I react to every character in Destiny. I'm already biased against them all. None of this is a big deal for me at all, because my expectations for Destiny have shifted a lot over the past 3 years. I don't play Destiny to experience a good story. I'm just wondering out loud: would a new cast of characters help me jump into Des2ny without bringing as much baggage from D1 with me. I suspect the answer is "yes". But it doesn't really matter.

...gave me more buy-in to protecting the city than anything in Destiny 1. There were some pretty good moments in the DLC, but I never felt connected to the world. Seeing just the tiniest bit of his backstory gave me a reason to join the fight- something I felt like I needed to conjure on my own previously.

D1, while beautiful, was fairly lifeless and I'm also really glad to see NPCs we can fight alongside now. I think that will give more life to the storytelling than the radio chatter did. It sounded like we would encounter NCPs on patrol as well. I cannot tell you how much I think that will change the feeling of that mode.

I'm hoping that D2 has more hooks like this. Overall I'm pretty optimistic now.Good show Bungie.

You are completely right. There's more characterization and drama in that FMV than in all of D1's original launch, imo.

It also made him feel somewhat tragic. Seeing the revives like that was waaaay more powerful than the "all's well" type of revive in the actual game.

Heh. I thought it was tragic each and every time one of my Guardians fell. :p

By the way, I laughed at how they kept bragging that D2 had more cinematics than any previous "destiny" release. So that's... 5? I mean, way to set a low bar, guys. What they did show us looked friggin awesome though.

Yep. Had that same thought.

...gave me more buy-in to protecting the city than anything in Destiny 1. There were some pretty good moments in the DLC, but I never felt connected to the world. Seeing just the tiniest bit of his backstory gave me a reason to join the fight- something I felt like I needed to conjure on my own previously.

D1, while beautiful, was fairly lifeless and I'm also really glad to see NPCs we can fight alongside now. I think that will give more life to the storytelling than the radio chatter did. It sounded like we would encounter NCPs on patrol as well. I cannot tell you how much I think that will change the feeling of that mode.

I'm hoping that D2 has more hooks like this. Overall I'm pretty optimistic now.Good show Bungie.

You are completely right. There's more characterization and drama in that FMV than in all of D1's original launch, imo.

It also made him feel somewhat tragic. Seeing the revives like that was waaaay more powerful than the "all's well" type of revive in the actual game.

By the way, I laughed at how they kept bragging that D2 had more cinematics than any previous "destiny" release. So that's... 5? I mean, way to set a low bar, guys. What they did show us looked friggin awesome though.

You know I've been pretty down on Destiny pretty often. I don't know that Destiny 2 fixes any of the problems I have, but it looks like it's at least trying to. Having a good campaign with a neat story will make me happy.

Maybe it's just nostalgia, maybe it's just hype, but I miss Destiny, and damnit all, I'm looking forward to playing again. Hopefully I'll have reliable internet at my house by September!

From what I have seen, I think it was 1 Rocket and 6 Shotgun shells.

Albeit, there is probably an ammo stat that influences that. And I may be misremembering.

From another video I saw today, this was accurate.

Also, it seems like the blast-radius of rockets has been significantly toned down.

I just don't think getting repeatedly 1-hit-killed by enemy supers and sniper rifles to be "fun" ;p

I think a lot of people dwell way too much on the frustrating end of this, and don't remember how much fun it is when you get to pull off something crazy. A lot of competitive players focus way too much on 1v1 battles, and not enough on the overall flow of the game. Sure, you killed me with a super and there was nothing I could have done about it, but I'll get you and 3 of your teammates when mine comes up. Everyone has opportunities for big plays, and whoever makes the most of theirs over the course of the game usually comes out on top. I find that way more exciting than the clinical style of play that things seem to be shifting towards.

Nothing more than a personal opinion here, but I don't think Destiny's year 1 PvP had much that is worth recreating. It was a fairly mediocre PvP shooter compared to other modern FPS games, IMO.

Man, you crazy.

Albeit, there is probably an ammo stat that influences that. And I may be misremembering.

I could have a Hand Cannon in TWO slots??

I'm sold. (:

I'm sold. (:

Why would you have two of the same weapon?

My hunter will be rocking two hand cannons, Josey Wales style.

how does heavy (special,whatever) ammo work in crucible now? if it's similar to how it is now, i can't see why anyone would want to use a shotgun when there will be people with rockets.

Only the person that pops the box gets the ammo now. I haven't watched enough to see the ammo ammounts, but I could see them limiting how much each heavy got individually. Two rockets versus five shotgun shells. Trade off two easy kills for more potential kills with the shotgun.

I don't think you would. I even think that's why they introduced the SMG, a close quarters weapon that melts at close range without being an instant kill like a shotgun. With having two primary slots you cover your bases with those and your power weapon is for special scenarios or high DPS.

how does heavy (special,whatever) ammo work in crucible now? if it's similar to how it is now, i can't see why anyone would want to use a shotgun when there will be people with rockets.

Pure speculation, but I would imagine it comes down to how much ammo they each come with. Like a rocket launcher might come with 2 rockets, but a shotgun might have 8 shells. Plus, since it doesn't drop for a whole team, just for the person that opens it, there's no guarantee you're even going to go up against anyone with power ammo.

I think the two slots are not meant to be incredibly different on power or ammo rareness, I think they are just supposed to serve different purposes in your loadout (hence the talk about more options with this setup).

It sounds like you basically have two primary slots, with one capable of elemental damage.

But like, imagine in the crucible having a hand canon and a scout rifle in those slots… aren't you basically covered at any range? This seems like you could basically mitigate any dead zones with certain loadouts.

Why would you have two of the same weapon?

I don't think you would. I even think that's why they introduced the SMG, a close quarters weapon that melts at close range without being an instant kill like a shotgun. With having two primary slots you cover your bases with those and your power weapon is for special scenarios or high DPS.

how does heavy (special,whatever) ammo work in crucible now? if it's similar to how it is now, i can't see why anyone would want to use a shotgun when there will be people with rockets.