That's not blind faith - it's firmly rooted in proven track records.

Unless you count their last 3 games… the ones that didn't really do anything to advance their genre? Maybe It's just the fact that they were tired of Halo (hence your 'first in the series' qualifier), but their track record has only really been what you describe from 1993-2004.

It would be nice to enter a new Bungie golden age again with Destiny!

I don't think the Marathon or Myth sequels advanced the genre much more than the Halo sequels. I think you're focusing on this so you could slag on the last three Halos, as is your want.

I'd say that there are aspects of all three that are better than the ones that came before. Perhaps they didn't shake up the ground rules like the first in the series games, but to me the last two especially were more mature than their predecessors.

Kermit

While a lot of that does it for me, along with my natural love and excitement for Bungie related things, reading posts like this from you actually gets me way more excited and ready to love what's coming from Bungie than a lot of the interviews and general buzz around the internet.

Now THAT'S scary. :)

Imagine trying to criticize Halo CE before it came out - none of us knew how vastly different it was from all FPSs before it until we played it. They changed the rules, and what might seem strange or weird in a bulletin list on a piece of paper worked out wonderfully with every other element they poured into it.

This, for me, is the key. And it wasn't just Halo CE. Every Bungie game has changed the rules in some way or another (well, every first-in-the-series game) - I have no reason to believe that Destiny will not follow this pattern. In fact, I could justifiably be called obstinate if I argued that Destiny WON'T follow this pattern, simply because I haven't seen enough of it yet.

I don't have faith that Destiny will be perfect. There have certainly been parts of Bungie's games I haven't enjoyed. I DO have faith that they'll make the game they want to make - and I am STRONGLY encouraged by the enthusiasm that many of the old-timers are showing. When Jason Jones waxes poetic about a project... I sit up and take notice. When Chris Butcher says this is different than anything he's ever done before... I listen. They may not be willing to tell me HOW this game meets their idea of 'new' or 'different' yet - but I have enough experience with their work and their opinions up to this point that I am willing to hold off on my judgements until I see enough to make my own decisions.

That's not blind faith - it's firmly rooted in proven track records.

While a lot of that does it for me, along with my natural love and excitement for Bungie related things, reading posts like this from you actually gets me way more excited and ready to love what's coming from Bungie than a lot of the interviews and general buzz around the internet.

tired of Halo

That. Right there. Biggest selling point for Destiny.

This, for me, is the key. And it wasn't just Halo CE. Every Bungie game has changed the rules in some way or another (well, every first-in-the-series game) - I have no reason to believe that Destiny will not follow this pattern. In fact, I could justifiably be called obstinate if I argued that Destiny WON'T follow this pattern, simply because I haven't seen enough of it yet.

Let me bold this for you:

Unless you count their last 3 games… the ones that didn't really do anything to advance their genre? Maybe It's just the fact that they were tired of Halo (hence your 'first in the series' qualifier), but their track record has only really been what you describe from 1993-2004.

This, for me, is the key. And it wasn't just Halo CE. Every Bungie game has changed the rules in some way or another (well, every first-in-the-series game) - I have no reason to believe that Destiny will not follow this pattern. In fact, I could justifiably be called obstinate if I argued that Destiny WON'T follow this pattern, simply because I haven't seen enough of it yet.

Unless you count their last 3 games…

That's exactly what he said.

That's not blind faith - it's firmly rooted in proven track records.

Unless you count their last 3 games… the ones that didn't really do anything to advance their genre? Maybe It's just the fact that they were tired of Halo (hence your 'first in the series' qualifier), but their track record has only really been what you describe from 1993-2004.

It would be nice to enter a new Bungie golden age again with Destiny!

That's not blind faith - it's firmly rooted in proven track records.

This, especially.

Here's the quote:

A storyline is finite while a persistent MMO-style game is infinite. How do you reconcile those two things?

Story in games is quite a bit different in linear media. A story in a movie will never change. While we can only have so many chapters inside of the game, we can still give you things to do day on day, week on week, year on year.
The story becomes just one of the many activities that are valuable. We hope the stories that people will tell won't necessarily be about the fiction, but will be about the things they've done together. That's not a bullshit answer. We are going to give you new things to do every single day, every single week even if it's not storyline in the traditional sense.

Imagine trying to criticize Halo CE before it came out - none of us knew how vastly different it was from all FPSs before it until we played it. They changed the rules, and what might seem strange or weird in a bulletin list on a piece of paper worked out wonderfully with every other element they poured into it.

This, for me, is the key. And it wasn't just Halo CE. Every Bungie game has changed the rules in some way or another (well, every first-in-the-series game) - I have no reason to believe that Destiny will not follow this pattern. In fact, I could justifiably be called obstinate if I argued that Destiny WON'T follow this pattern, simply because I haven't seen enough of it yet.

I don't have faith that Destiny will be perfect. There have certainly been parts of Bungie's games I haven't enjoyed. I DO have faith that they'll make the game they want to make - and I am STRONGLY encouraged by the enthusiasm that many of the old-timers are showing. When Jason Jones waxes poetic about a project... I sit up and take notice. When Chris Butcher says this is different than anything he's ever done before... I listen. They may not be willing to tell me HOW this game meets their idea of 'new' or 'different' yet - but I have enough experience with their work and their opinions up to this point that I am willing to hold off on my judgements until I see enough to make my own decisions.

That's not blind faith - it's firmly rooted in proven track records.

Is there going to be enough to do in Destiny? And I don't mean "hanging out on Mars".

Creating content and designing encounters is tough. I mean, look at Reach. You got nine levels of crafted spaces and encounters, and that game took more than 2 years to make, and took most people somewhere around 15 hours to finish.

From what I see in MMOs, there's enough content only because it all takes a long time to do because:

1. You have to travel around a lot to get to the quests.
2. The enemies take a relatively long time to fight
3. You need to grind your way to the required level

Has Bungie really been working on Destiny long enough, and with enough people that when it ships we'll get more than 15 hours of encounters? Or are they going to use any of the three methods above to slow us down from completing it?

Because I can easily see a good player sitting down and beating Reach in a long day. Maybe Destiny will take an entire weekend. But due to the nature of combat in first person shooters, and the time required to make compelling spaces and encounters, what is going to keep me in this world other than them having a shit ton of levels?

Are there going to just be a shit ton of levels? Are we going to be slowed down MMO style? Will the shit ton of levels be designed well with care and attention to them?

I think Bungies kind of been hinting about the fact that Destiny is going to have a ton of content. There's a reason they've focused on things like "look how quickly we can generate content in Grognok!" http://youtu.be/vUxRTCTr7ic?t=28m52s The rapid creation of geometry is *very* impressive, and it appears that a fully lit textured scene can be assembled rapidly.

I'm actually more worried about the ability to fill all this space with variety. How many different objectives, how many different types of encounters can come about? Will this content be *interesting*

Do you really think that they are just going to announce their intentions only to gimp it later on? Its madness.

Dude, Halo 2.

Also Oni with its eventual lack of multiplayer.

But then of course if you look at what either of those games did deliver neither one fits with the bigger implication that Bungie is going to give us a bad game. Both Halo 2 and Oni were amazing. Halo 2 in particular set the tone of the rest of the series with its wide ranging well told story, it brought us Xbox live multiplayer, and it had great gameplay and level design. If the Destiny E3 reveal is to the final version of Destiny as the Halo 2 demo was to Halo 2 then I don't think any of us have anything to worry about, and we're in for an extremely awesome ride.

If it was so obvious, why didn't you bring it up pre-emptively?

Anyway, I'm just asking for balance. You're pushing too far in the 'benefit of the doubt' direction.

Because. . . I thought it . . . was . . . . . . Obvious? >_>

It looks like you assumed it was obvious. To some, it may not be. It's alright to give that opinion a voice.

I am posting on a Bungie fan site right? Of that I did give the 'benefit of the doubt'.

What do you mean here? I hope it doesn't mean certain expectations about what is and isn't said. That would be silly.

Ugh. Silly me for thinking fans of Bungie knew about Bungie. No assumptions here - more like hope. Silly silly hope. You can rebut if you would like - no doubt you will. Question is - am I hoping you will or assuming you will? Aye, there's the rub.

But this - is much less of such. I'm just going off what we are aware of. Asking questions that amount to WHAT IF IT SUCKS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?11111 Is ultimately pointless. Putting one self into an emotional tizzy more so. Alot of the questions asked don't have answers right now.

To this point, I haven't seen anything remotely resembling this. It's just folks talking about what comes to mind, as far as I can tell. Sure, it might just be based on the slimest of information, but that's all the fun at this juncture.

Ok. As you choose.

If it was so obvious, why didn't you bring it up pre-emptively?

Anyway, I'm just asking for balance. You're pushing too far in the 'benefit of the doubt' direction.

(Bah! Grabbed my post before I could finish my edit. Stupid was much too strong a word.)

Because. . . I thought it . . . was . . . . . . Obvious? >_>

It looks like you assumed it was obvious. To some, it may not be. It's alright to give that opinion a voice.

I am posting on a Bungie fan site right? Of that I did give the 'benefit of the doubt'.

What do you mean here? I hope it doesn't mean certain expectations about what is and isn't said. That would be silly.

But this - is much less of such. I'm just going off what we are aware of. Asking questions that amount to WHAT IF IT SUCKS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?11111 Is ultimately pointless. Putting one self into an emotional tizzy more so. Alot of the questions asked don't have answers right now.

To this point, I haven't seen anything remotely resembling this. It's just folks talking about what comes to mind, as far as I can tell. Sure, it might just be based on the slimest of information, but that's all the fun at this juncture.